This video explains "the surge". This is why hanging, partial or full, is an AWFUL way to go and you don't just pass out painlessly. You panic horrend

[fedup1982]

 

[sanctionedusage]

doesn't this apply to any non-instantaneous death? why hanging specifically? the idea with hanging is that you're unconscious long before you actually die.

 

[fedup1982]

doesn't this apply to any non-instantaneous death? why hanging specifically? the idea with hanging is that you're unconscious long before you actually die.

It explains whay happens when oxygen to the brain is reduced too much. I experienced it myself multiple times with hanging, I dont know why it happens with hanging and not SN for example. I'm sorrybbut that theory floating about on here that everyone repeats is crap. Your brain knocks you out of consciousness back into consciousness for brief, frantic, terrifying periods or panic that absolutely force you to give up. So full suspension with no backout option is fucking stupid and inviting torture of yourself.

I'm not making this shit up.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Cardiac arrest and hanging have the same effect on the brain; in both cases, blood flow to the brain ceases. The video mentions that, just like hanging, unconsciousness sets in after about 10 seconds in cases of cardiac arrest. Unlike hanging, however, brain waves were apparently measured in the clinic during cardiac arrest, and according to these measurements, patterns appeared in some of the dying patients that suggested a form of consciousness. Whether the heart stopped beating first in these cases is not clear from the video.

I'm reminded of the video of a Filipino woman who hanged herself and, after hanging for over a minute and apparently losing consciousness, tried to climb back up the ladder.

While near-death experiences suggest that these experiences were rather pleasant, this says absolutely nothing about what we experience when dying, since they didn't actually die.

If I were to regain consciousness while hanging and find myself unable to breathe, that would certainly be an unpleasant surprise.

 

[AreWeWinning]

The video actually proves the opposite of what you're saying.

You've watched a video and you're trying to read your preconceived ideas into it. However nowhere does the video talk about a frantic, terrifying, or horrid experience. The video claims the exact opposite. It describes the process of dying when the brain is deprived of oxygen as:

• Activity in the brain that is "linked to out-of-body experiences and visual processing" 2:08
• Experiences that are eerily similar to "bright lights, a sense of floating above their own body, a feeling of peace so deep it defies description" 2:33
• "What the data does tell us is this. The experience of dying, for many people, is not painful. It is not dark. It is not empty. It is, by most accounts, peaceful." 5:53

It explains whay happens when oxygen to the brain is reduced too much. I experienced it myself multiple times with hanging

No, the video explains what happens when oxygen to the brain is completely cut off, not just reduced. There is good evidence that this is what happens in full suspension hanging.

You don't go into details about your experience, but I assume they come from partial hanging. Partial hanging can indeed be a terrifying experience if there isn't enough pressure to block blood flow in the carotid arteries and you're unable to lose consciousness.

As long as you lose consciousness relatively quickly, even partial hanging shouldn't feel too horrible, even if you regain consciousness. There are reports on the forum that describe such experiences, and most of them don't describe it as very horrifying. They're mostly just frustrated about it and asking questions about how to solve the problem.

The reports that describe partial hanging as painful and horrid typically come from people who can't lose consciousness at all in the first place. This happens a lot. For many people, partial hanging doesn't work. However, this doesn't tell us anything about 1) whether full suspension would work for them and how it would feel, and 2) how partial hanging would feel if it did work for them and they were able to lose consciousness.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

imo that's not Death. Death is irreversible. you can't feel pain if you are Dead.

1 micro-second after the brain is functionally destroyed that's Death. 1 micro-second after the brain dies the human or animal ceases to exist forever . the brain can never create the first person pov nor the self model and so can never suffer pain again .

if i shoot my head with a shotgun or rifle my whole brain will be instantly obliterated. that's instant Death. the brain won't be alive for a minute because it's destroyed in a few microseconds.

for example placing a high powered rifle against the head and firing will send a supersonic pessure and shockwave, 60,000 psi . can a brain live under 60,000 psi ? no

The brain at the entry point is "sent" backward and outward as an ejecta cone at 80% to 100% of the impact velocity, or roughly 2,300 to 2,900 fps.

this destroys the brain at that speed so it doesn't have time to process pain .

The brain is functionally destroyed within 1 to 5 milliseconds.

The survival rate for a direct mid-brain hit with this caliber is 0%. Death is instantaneous because the brain's ability to process signals or maintain autonomic functions (like heart rate and breathing) is physically annihilated faster than the nervous system can register pain.

 

[JesiBel]

It appears that all that information is still too experimental. The study was conducted on laboratory rats. Here are the original articles, one regarding the study, and another refuting or casting doubt on the information presented:

Surge of neurophysiological coherence and connectivity in the dying brain (Jimo Borjigin)

Surge of neurophysiological activity in the dying brain (Bruce Greyson)

You shouldn't rely on YouTube videos as a source of information. Look for the original articles written by the actual authors.

When you loss of consciousness the responses to external and internal stimuli are absent. This video of an attempt is a good example of this.
This topic was discussed quite a bit in this thread.

The only way for you to perceive any stimulus again during an attempted hanging is this scenario (sorry..)
To have any kind of experience, you must have some degree of consciousness.

There is no need to "generate paranoia" about a method just because you didn't have a good experience with it or are afraid of it.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

It appears that all that information is still too experimental. The study was conducted on laboratory rats. Here are the original articles, one regarding the study, and another refuting or casting doubt on the information presented:

Surge of neurophysiological coherence and connectivity in the dying brain (Jimo Borjigin)

Surge of neurophysiological activity in the dying brain (Bruce Greyson)

You shouldn't rely on YouTube videos as a source of information. Look for the original articles written by the actual authors.

When you loss of consciousness the responses to external and internal stimuli are absent. This video of an attempt is a good example of this.
This topic was discussed quite a bit in this thread.

The only way for you to perceive any stimulus again during an attempted hanging is this scenario (sorry..)
To have any kind of experience, you must have some degree of consciousness.

There is no need to "generate paranoia" about a method just because you didn't have a good experience with it or are afraid of it.

This is the result of a discussion with Gemini:


So, brain activity in an intact brain after cardiac arrest has never been measured in humans, only in rats?

Yes, it has been measured in humans – and that's precisely what makes the discoveries of recent years so sensational. There was indeed a misunderstanding in media coverage in the past, which we need to briefly clear up.

The skepticism stemmed from the fact that Dr. Jimo Borjigin (the author of the third study) published a very famous study on rats in 2013. At that time, she demonstrated this "gamma surge" during death for the first time in the laboratory using animals. For many years, the prevailing scientific opinion was: "This is extremely fascinating, but we don't know if it also occurs in humans."

The studies from 2022 (the serendipitous finding in the 87-year-old) and 2023 (the PNAS study on the four coma patients) closed precisely this gap. Measurements were taken in humans.

Here is the subtle but crucial difference in how "intact" the brains of the human patients in these studies still were:

1. The 2022 case (Vicente et al.): A functionally intact brain

This case comes closest to a "completely intact" brain.

The 87-year-old patient had fallen and suffered bleeding (which is why he was hospitalized), but his brain was neither in a coma nor dysfunctional.

He was conscious, able to speak, and was being monitored via EEG due to epileptic seizures.

When his heart suddenly and unexpectedly stopped beating, his brain was fully active and intact up to that split second. And it was precisely in this dying human brain that synchronized gamma waves were measured.

2. The 2023 study (Borjigin et al.): Structurally intact, but severely damaged

In the four patients from the coma study, a distinction must be made:

Structurally intact: The brain was still physically present, the nerve cells were still alive (they were not brain dead), and the connections between brain regions existed.

Functionally impaired: They were in a deep coma because the preceding oxygen deprivation had temporarily paralyzed the cerebral cortex.

The fascinating thing was this: As soon as the last oxygen was withdrawn (by switching off the ventilator), the still-living, intact structures of this damaged brain briefly awoke to a state of hyperactive peak performance. The regions suddenly began to communicate intensely with each other.

Why is it so difficult to measure this in a "perfectly healthy" brain?

Clinical studies must adhere to strict ethical guidelines. Electrodes cannot simply be attached to the head of a dying person without reason. Therefore, such data is only available in humans in two exceptional cases:

By tragic chance: As with the 87-year-old epilepsy patient who was already hooked up to monitors when he died.

In the intensive care unit (at the end of treatment): When patients are terminally ill, life support machines are switched off, and the family explicitly consents in advance to having their brain activity recorded for research purposes during the dying process.

Conclusion: This discovery has long since reached us humans. The data from 2022 and 2023 have proven that the human brain exhibits precisely the same spectacular surge in activity during death that had been observed in rats years earlier.



Bruce Greyson argues that while the measurements in the EEG are real, we misinterpret them. He proposes the following model:

When the brain dies and the oxygen supply ceases, the brain's filtering function fails. The brain loses its ability to suppress consciousness and limit it to physical reality. At this moment, "consciousness breaks free."

Therefore, for Greyson, the measurable gamma spike in the EEG is not the cause of the near-death experience, but merely the physical noise of a filter that is in the process of breaking down.

 

[eddie202603]

I'll just share my experience. I'm 176cm tall and weigh 51kg, with a BMI of 16.5, probably because I'm quite thin. I simply wrapped a rope around my neck and tightened it, applying just enough force to close the carotid artery while still allowing me to breathe through the trachea. After 3 seconds, my vision started to blur, and then my body began to weaken and I started shaking uncontrollably. The whole process took less than 7 seconds; I estimate I would have fainted within 10 seconds. There was absolutely no pain at the time because the force was quite light. Just like what's said online, you only need 5kg to close the carotid artery and 15kg to close the trachea. You just need to keep the force within the range of 5-15kg.

 

[JesiBel]

This is the result of a discussion with Gemini:


So, brain activity in an intact brain after cardiac arrest has never been measured in humans, only in rats?

Yes, it has been measured in humans – and that's precisely what makes the discoveries of recent years so sensational. There was indeed a misunderstanding in media coverage in the past, which we need to briefly clear up.

The skepticism stemmed from the fact that Dr. Jimo Borjigin (the author of the third study) published a very famous study on rats in 2013. At that time, she demonstrated this "gamma surge" during death for the first time in the laboratory using animals. For many years, the prevailing scientific opinion was: "This is extremely fascinating, but we don't know if it also occurs in humans."

The studies from 2022 (the serendipitous finding in the 87-year-old) and 2023 (the PNAS study on the four coma patients) closed precisely this gap. Measurements were taken in humans.

Here is the subtle but crucial difference in how "intact" the brains of the human patients in these studies still were:

1. The 2022 case (Vicente et al.): A functionally intact brain

This case comes closest to a "completely intact" brain.

The 87-year-old patient had fallen and suffered bleeding (which is why he was hospitalized), but his brain was neither in a coma nor dysfunctional.

He was conscious, able to speak, and was being monitored via EEG due to epileptic seizures.

When his heart suddenly and unexpectedly stopped beating, his brain was fully active and intact up to that split second. And it was precisely in this dying human brain that synchronized gamma waves were measured.

2. The 2023 study (Borjigin et al.): Structurally intact, but severely damaged

In the four patients from the coma study, a distinction must be made:

Structurally intact: The brain was still physically present, the nerve cells were still alive (they were not brain dead), and the connections between brain regions existed.

Functionally impaired: They were in a deep coma because the preceding oxygen deprivation had temporarily paralyzed the cerebral cortex.

The fascinating thing was this: As soon as the last oxygen was withdrawn (by switching off the ventilator), the still-living, intact structures of this damaged brain briefly awoke to a state of hyperactive peak performance. The regions suddenly began to communicate intensely with each other.

Why is it so difficult to measure this in a "perfectly healthy" brain?

Clinical studies must adhere to strict ethical guidelines. Electrodes cannot simply be attached to the head of a dying person without reason. Therefore, such data is only available in humans in two exceptional cases:

By tragic chance: As with the 87-year-old epilepsy patient who was already hooked up to monitors when he died.

In the intensive care unit (at the end of treatment): When patients are terminally ill, life support machines are switched off, and the family explicitly consents in advance to having their brain activity recorded for research purposes during the dying process.

Conclusion: This discovery has long since reached us humans. The data from 2022 and 2023 have proven that the human brain exhibits precisely the same spectacular surge in activity during death that had been observed in rats years earlier.



Bruce Greyson argues that while the measurements in the EEG are real, we misinterpret them. He proposes the following model:

When the brain dies and the oxygen supply ceases, the brain's filtering function fails. The brain loses its ability to suppress consciousness and limit it to physical reality. At this moment, "consciousness breaks free."

Therefore, for Greyson, the measurable gamma spike in the EEG is not the cause of the near-death experience, but merely the physical noise of a filter that is in the process of breaking down.

Original articles by their authors:

• Enhanced Interplay of Neuronal Coherence and Coupling in the Dying Human Brain (Raul Vicente et al.) 1, 2

• Commentary: Enhanced Interplay of Neuronal Coherence and Coupling in the Dying Human Brain (Bruce Greyson) (Again, raising questions and doubts)

• Surge of neurophysiological coupling and connectivity of gamma oscillations in the dying human brain (Jimo Borjigin)

Author's words (copy/paste from the article):

Article:

"We cannot rule out the possibility that the surge of gamma power is a sign of a pathological process unique to the dying stage and unrelated to conscious processing. Mechanism and function of the observed gamma power surge during the dying process warrant further investigation.

This study lays the foundation for further investigation of covert consciousness during cardiac arrest, which may serve as a model system to explore mechanisms of human consciousness."

To be honest, if it's part of the general dying process (it's still being researched and investigated)... what does it matter? You can't escape it even if you want to. Whether it's natural death or a suicide method that doesn't cause instant death. That supposed "fleeting moment" before life completely fades sounds almost poetic.

Also, at no point is it said to be a traumatic, horrendous experience or one that involves suffering.

Furthermore, neither the video nor the study says that you can feel stimuli while unconscious. It only raises the possibility of this "last fleeting wave" of neuronal activity before everything shuts down forever.

Something like a short circuit; the organism fails to survive and stay alive, exhausts its last energies, and it all ends.

Collective paranoia makes no sense.

 

[solaceclosion]

I'll just share my experience. I'm 176cm tall and weigh 51kg, with a BMI of 16.5, probably because I'm quite thin. I simply wrapped a rope around my neck and tightened it, applying just enough force to close the carotid artery while still allowing me to breathe through the trachea. After 3 seconds, my vision started to blur, and then my body began to weaken and I started shaking uncontrollably. The whole process took less than 7 seconds; I estimate I would have fainted within 10 seconds. There was absolutely no pain at the time because the force was quite light. Just like what's said online, you only need 5kg to close the carotid artery and 15kg to close the trachea. You just need to keep the force within the range of 5-15kg.

I had a similar experience with one of my successful partial hanging tests. Since light but still proper pressure was applied to my carotids, I peacefully lost consciousness very fast under 10 seconds & only woke up because my test setup fell over & the agonal breathing allowed me to come back to. I remember being very confused as to what was happening as loosened the rope/string from my neck. Since I didn't need to apply much initial pressure to pass out, the only painful part about the process was my neck after I regained fuller awareness. Just a friction burn like pain & a mark that is still there even 2months after lol. But so with a more stable setup, I would have actually died & wouldn't have even realized it.