Venting Therapies about Asian parents

[Lucid7972]

I used to see a therapist who practices psychodynamic therapy, which is the school likes to dig into your past to investigate your traumas, so I did a lot of reflections on my relationship with my parents.

Mine are like many Asian parents, who indeed wronged me. I heard a lot of white and black parents told the kids how much they love them. My parents never did because I didn't do that well in school, at least not up to their expectations and their "sacrifice" and effort. They were always in a bad mood with me, and keep mumbling that I'm gonna starve and be homeless when I grew up.

The reason why I talk about this here is not because I think that really traumatized me so I don't wanna live, but rather to acknowledge the fact, this is something indeed happened to me. They don't have a place in my philosophical standing, which are antinatalism and nihilism.

My therapist said it could be that I have a sad and hurt feeling and then I try to rationalize my feelings and philosophies it into the "ism" I believe. Then the burden of the proof fell on my shoulder. I would have to prove then I'm not a sad kid that has driven by impulses they implied I am.

 

[timf]

We are all born helpless, ignorant, and selfish. If we are born into difficult times families become close for mutual survival. If we live in prosperous times children can be a pain. Children are famous for their selfishness and ingratitude which is why selfish adults do not want to have children anymore.

Some parents a good at grinding their teeth and persevering through whatever the circumstances to "succeed". Putting pressure on their children to go to school and get a good job as this is as far as their understanding of life extends. They mean well but their understanding of life is largely limited to doing one's duty.

If one considers both doing duty as well as having enjoyment it can be an interesting exercise. Our selfish nature can cause all sorts of problems. This can be reduced somewhat with duty, but we can still lack enjoyment. The Buddhists attempt to conquer the selfishness problem by overcoming desire. However, this also neglects enjoyment.

Some find enjoyment in artistic or creative expression. Your parents should not be faulted because they only knew duty. However, you have the opportunity to explore additional paths that can bring greater fullness to life.

I would recommend Christianity, but it is presented so poorly that one is not likely to find the way to transition from our natural selfishness to the selflessness of real love from a church or a pastor.

Asian parenting might be seen as similar to the philosophy of stoicism (the pursuit of virtue) by toughing it out. As an alternative, nihilism seems unrewarding. I can sympathize for your parents as dogged determination has worked for many in hostile environments for centuries, it should not be expected that what has worked for survival in the past is optimal for a less hostile environment.

Part of growing up is understanding the limitations of one's own parents. This can be done with love and understanding or with bitterness and anger. If you are interested in how Christianity could help, send me a message and I will respond.

 

[SASU-KE]

I'll never understand why people have kids and then do this. I mean, if you're going to behave like this as parents, then why have kids in the first place?

 

[Lucid7972]

I'll never understand why people have kids and then do this. I mean, if you're going to behave like this as parents, then why have kids in the first place?

because asian parents think they own the kids, if something they own, like a stock, does not behave as they wish, they get pissed

 

[Lucid7972]

Children are famous for their selfishness and ingratitude which is why selfish adults do not want to have children anymore.

I cannot agree that you frame antinatalism as selfish, what? antinatalist become antinatalist because they realize children will be ingratitude? what a pile of bullshit...

I would recommend Christianity, but it is presented so poorly that one is not likely to find the way to transition from our natural selfishness to the selflessness of real love from a church or a pastor.

you really rubbed the wrong guy, I left out my parents' hardcore christianity part for simplicity and to reduce the layers, are you a pastor yourself ad trying to "save" anyone here?

 

[timf]

Sorry, I thought that seeing your parents with a context of understanding might help reduce some of the resentment. If by antinatalism you refer to the desire not to have children it is certainly understandable but ultimately serves self-interest.

Perhaps it is my age that sees a broader scope wherein you parents fears and anxieties as well as a lack of understanding child rearing in this society might be expected to produce the results you experienced. That you and your parents can achieve a better relationship based on both your and their growth in understanding should be discernible.

I used the word selfish not as an insult but to describe our common human condition. Some parents are better than others in raising their children to improve on the initial condition of helplessness, ignorance and our mutual selfishness. For those who are raised with more limited advancement on this initial state, life can offer some difficult consequences.

You can obtain all sorts of therapy where you are comforted with pleasantries and exhorted to forgive yourself. However, sometimes an honest approach can be more helpful. If the scope of your parents understanding was limited to advocacy of schooling and a "good job", they not only failed you, they also failed their faith as seeking worldly entanglement is not supposed to be a Christian aspiration.

That the only tools they had to work with were being pushy and insistent and denigrating you for "failure", it says more about them than you. You should be able to start to see them as children who themselves did not get the best raising. Yes you have been hurt, but at some point you should be able to start to let go of that and seeing your parents less as ogres and more as people you feel sorry for can begin to allow you to heal.

 

[Lucid7972]

If by antinatalism you refer to the desire not to have children it is certainly understandable but ultimately serves self-interest.

again that's a straw man projecting parental resentment onto ethical choice. Antinatalists recognize children' normal self-focus as developmental, not fixed flaws, and opt out to avoid imposing life's harms. True selfishness lies in procreating for gratitude, parent role play desire or legacy, risking unconsented suffering for personal gain.

I am surprised you are on SaSu this long and still defame antinatlism, please answer me, are you a pastor and on a mission here?

 

[timf]

I am a 76 year old guy who has been a lot of places, seen a lot of things, and done a lot of things many of them foolish. You are correct about selfishness having developmental aspects. While it can be acculturated and even suppressed, it is difficult not to live for oneself.

The people who have children for less than noble reasons are often not doing so because of mal-intent. Most people operate reflexively to what they encounter. For some, their selfishness is so powerful, it can land them in jail. For others their self-focus seems unremarkable. It is understandable as we are all born as individuals that we should have a self-focus.

My parents were alcoholic and I didn't get married until I was 43. I understand the "ethical" choice not to have kids. However, it may also be a reaction to unpleasant experiences and an acknowledgement of a lack of information as to how to make it work. Shying away from that which scares one is understandable.

I agree that some people can have very selfish motives for having children. However, most discover that regardless of what their initial plans were, things can turn out different than expected. The parents that try to force the outcome they want often find their children become broken in spirit or rebel. Such force can come from the parents own selfishness or from a misunderstanding of how to raise children.

My kids are now reaching their 30s. We tried to raise them to be able to navigate their lives with humor, honesty, good character, and the ability to avoid many of the snares in life that can destroy lives. We did not use the narrow template of college, a good job, and worldly position that many consider the measure of success.

I am not a minister. I rejected the faith in which I was raised when I was 13. It was only when I was 30 I started to read the bible. While I have attended a few churches, I cannot think of one I would recommend. They tend to focus only on the superficial and most do not even know what it is they profess. It is sad that so many people are left to sort of forage on their own to find a way to make sense of what is typically presented. I try to make myself available in the rare instance someone would like to know more. I have found that in whatever way you offer to help people, most are not interested unless it is to help them move.

If you do not want to have kids, don't. If you hate God and Christians, fine. We all make choices and have to face consequences. I was simply trying to encourage you to be a little more understanding of your parents so that you might avoid bitterness taking root in your heart. This is the sort of thing that can grow to poison a life.

As you can see I tend to talk too much. Like the guy of whom you ask the time and he tells you how to build a watch. I perhaps should not have cited the human quality of selfishness or at least made it not sound so accusative.