The way “normal people” talk about suicide is appalling.

[Lilanel]

I'm taking a class to become an EMT. Most of the stuff is okay—we're learning to help people who want to live. Then we got to the mental health chapter.

Right off the bat. "People who say they want to kill themselves don't get to refuse going to the hospital." Then the instructor talked about how you would "help" someone who feels suicidal—it's basically trying to extract as much information as you can to force them into a longer hospital stay. Like, legitimately, we were told to write in our reports any serious threats so that the doctor could confront them with it and trap them into more time in the hospital. I won't say the instructor was an asshole, I actually like him, but the approach is very cold. Basically like a prison guard...Get them in the ambulance (tied up, if necessary), extract a confession, and imprison them in the hospital.

A guy in my class turned to me and said, "I'd love to hear from these people why they decided to do it." As though suicidal people (and people who have attempted) are mythical beings who cannot ever be spoken to. I said that there are plenty of people who talk about their attempts and the reasons behind them online, in articles. He said, in a judgmental tone, "I've felt sad many times, but I've never wanted to kill myself. I think if you care about your friends and family members at all, you'd never kill yourself." I didn't want to talk to him about it, obviously, so I said, "I think it's more complicated than that." He scoffed at me, again. Just zero understanding. Nil.

I don't know what I'd do in a situation where I'd have to help someone who wants to kill themselves. I'm a strong advocate for choice, but informed choice. I think I'd try my best to understand, at least, and have empathy. Not just think about the best way to keep this poor person in a hospital they likely can't afford for as long as possible.

Once, I called my therapist in a big tizzy, talking about my suicide plans (stupid idea, by the way, don't do it). He wanted to call an ambulance, I begged him not to, and he didn't. I should send him a cookie basket.

 

[noctiva]

I hear you, I'm in neuroscience, working actively in addiction and the reward system. Mental health is as such discussed a lot, including suicide and forcefully committing people to prevent them from it.
'The suicidal person' is somewhat of a mythical being, because according to this, everyone committing suicide is doing so impulsively, and everyone who succeeds at suicide is a person that normal people couldn't 'save' who would have been grateful if we had recognised it and had intervened.

'normal' people do not understand how hard suicide is, how long a person committing suicide has suffered and screamed for help to anyone who'd listen, to no avail. I don't know a single person who killed themselves out of affect, I know people whose mental health was declining for a long time, who had treatment and not sufficient improvement, who've talked to their families and friends about what would need to change for them to feel better and who got no support, got eveno more isolated and then, after trying repeatedly, died.

It is sad how misunderstood suicide is, how suicidal people are seen as abnormal and at fault themselves for their condition, because 'if they'd just reached out, in the second they make this snap decision to kill themselves, they would be helped'...

 

[Lilanel]

I hear you, I'm in neuroscience, working actively in addiction and the reward system. Mental health is as such discussed a lot, including suicide and forcefully committing people to prevent them from it.
'The suicidal person' is somewhat of a mythical being, because according to this, everyone committing suicide is doing so impulsively, and everyone who succeeds at suicide is a person that normal people couldn't 'save' who would have been grateful if we had recognised it and had intervened.

'normal' people do not understand how hard suicide is, how long a person committing suicide has suffered and screamed for help to anyone who'd listen, to no avail. I don't know a single person who killed themselves out of affect, I know people whose mental health was declining for a long time, who had treatment and not sufficient improvement, who've talked to their families and friends about what works need to change for them to feel better and who got no super, got even more isolated and then, after trying repeatedly, died.

It is sad how misunderstood suicide is, how suicidal people are seen as abnormal and at fault themselves for their condition, because 'if they'd just reached out, in the second they make this snap decision to kill themselves, they would be helped'...

Absolutely. There are many reasons that people choose to commit suicide—if anyone decided to take the effort to understand, they might be able to come to grips with the fact that sometimes, it's rational. I don't know if people are afraid of "catching the crazy" or what, but I see nobody trying to understand.

As someone who has personally toyed with the idea of suicide for many years, and never attempted and never really talked to a ton of people about it...I highly doubt that suicide is as impulsive as people say it is. I think that many people who "impulsively" committed suicide chewed it over for a while, hit a tipping point where they made their decision, and quickly CTB. Dismissing their actions as being without thought is downright idiotic.

 

[noctiva]

Absolutely. There are many reasons that people choose to commit suicide—if anyone decided to take the effort to understand, they might be able to come to grips with the fact that sometimes, it's rational. I don't know if people are afraid of "catching the crazy" or what, but I see nobody trying to understand.

As someone who has personally toyed with the idea of suicide for many years, and never attempted and never really talked to a ton of people about it...I highly doubt that suicide is as impulsive as people say it is. I think that many people who "impulsively" committed suicide chewed it over for a while, hit a tipping point where they made their decision, and quickly CTB. Dismissing their actions as being without thought is downright idiotic.

Same here, contemplated suicide for a really long time, I had phases where I thought about it ever day for months, and phases where nothing was further from my mind. Never attempted, never needed medication. I have gone to therapy for over a decade, mostly to become a better version of myself, working though my childhood and my past. I have to say, it didn't work. I had this huge crisis 6 weeks back, and it showed me that there was actually no healing from my childhood, what went wrong there is still wrong, and hasn't improved one iota.

I am very much saddened at how suicide is seen in society, but also in mental health professionals. It is still completely taboo as a topic to discuss with suicidal people, which says more about the therapists own fears than anything else. People who attempt suicide usually try again and again until they succeed. This myth that people that were 'saved' are grateful and healed, that's a minority.

 

[charlie_z]

I think there do exist a small number of cases where an individual decided over a short period of time (hours and, in some very unique instances, minutes) to take their life. But I will agree that in the vast majority of cases the decision to end one's life is/was developed over a very long period of time.

We're not mystical creatures who capriciously decide that dying would prove an interesting exercise. Last time I checked, there were 324 members affiliated with SS. That may appear to be a small number, but I still think it's a significant figure for several reasons: 1. the stigma of suicide, the fear of being associated with it, likely keeps a good number of people joining this and other similar sites. 2. older people (I include myself) sometimes find it difficult to interact with virtual mediums, and that problem is only further compounded when the topic is as intimate and contentious as suicide. 3. although they are getting increasingly easier to locate, it still takes a bit of real effort to eventually navigate to a site like SanctionedSuicide.

Rather than mystical unicorns only caught from the corner of our eyes, I believe we constantly bump into people actively contemplating committing suicide. I think most people at some point in their lives consider suicide, if only fleetingly. The thought I find interesting is to try to conceive of a society where the act of suicide was considered normal: what would that society look like; how would it evolve to the point where suicide was accepted as a normal activity; how would the ethics of elected death be argued and taught. Lots to think about.

 

[noctiva]

I want to say that we are also propagating the idea that suicide isn't normal by referring to Those of no suicidal ideations as 'normal'. Which kind of implies that we are 'abnormal'. And reading threads here, we do think and feel abnormal, describing how we are different from 'normal' people, that we don't function 'normally'.
I think it's sad.

I have a theory about suicide, stemming from the way early tribes and societies worked. We lived in small groups, mainly larger family units, moving around a lot, hunting and gathering. Jobs were divided, who did what, how and when. Since it was a small group, every individual was needed. We didn't have a lot of 'spare' people that we could employ if one bit the dust. People die anyway, due to age, injury, infection. So suicide was not really acceptable because the group would shrink even further. The more we developed as a society, the more specialized the jobs got, baker, brewer, priest, scribe, hunter, farmer etc. If you lost someone who had a specialization, you'd be screwed, you don't have 3 blacksmiths in reserve you can just pull from the ranks, a new blacksmith needed training, for years, if not decades, to fully replace the old one, and who would guide this person learning the trade? I think that's where the idea of 'selfishness' comes from. If you killed yourself, you jeopardized the survival of the group. If you look at larger societies, such as ancient Rome, suicide was kinda sorta accepted, in some cases suicide was your only option left. Either you 'threw yourself on your sword', more or less voluntarily, or you were killed. The former lead to you dying with honor, if you needed to be killed, you'd be a coward and your family would be disgraced. So I think it is an option for a society to be accepting of suicide under some conditions if enough people are present within this society. In Rome, you could 'order' a new blacksmith from somewhere else in case yours died, whether due to age or due to suicide. The population was big enough and, most importantly, connected and unified enough, to allow for this.
After the fall of Rome however, society fragmented again into smaller and more closed communities, where it went back to suicide being less acceptable. Christianity plays a large role in this as well, but I don't really want to discuss this here seeing as we do have religious members here as well and I do not want to offend anyone. I'm sorry for this totally off topic rant, I've been thinking a lot about suicide lately, also from a point of view of society and history. If anyone has any thought on my brain fart above or has some sources about it, let me know. I'd love to hear from you.

If you read this far, my god, you deserve a medal. Take care and be kind to yourself.

 

[Jean Améry]

Of course medical and paramedical personnel have the legal duty pressed upon them to 'save' the suicidal. If you go into this field I'm afraid you won't have a choice if you're confronted with such situations or you'll be faced with disciplinary sactions and/or criminal neglect charges.

The suicidal are about the only minority in western societies these days that can be legally prosecuted, imprisoned and abused at will. Which is why the so called 'mental health field' and psychiatry are so evil: they offer the ideological justification for widespread human rights violations and supply the concentration camp personnel to carry out said atrocities.

 

[CrushedHopes]

I agree with the OP.

Honestly, there is no solution for my predicament, which is exactly why I chose to embrace death with grace. I don't want to keep living with so many fucking regrets. I know sooner or later, I'll go out of control due to mental instability that has worsened as a result of the debacle. I give up. Death is my true salvation. I'm gonna do it before anyone could even call police/ambulance to lock me in a psych ward. It won't help. Nobody could help fix the mess I've created. It may not be anything illegal, but that much is true. I ruined my own life.

At least I'll have Yuna by my side to spend my last moments before I depart. I hope she'll continue to do fine after I'm gone. I hope I'll get to meet her again someday, somehow.... outside this plane of existence.

 

[Lilanel]

Of course medical and paramedical personnel have the legal duty pressed upon them to 'save' the suicidal. If you go into this field I'm afraid you won't have a choice if you're confronted with such situations or you'll be faced with disciplinary sactions and/or criminal neglect charges.

The suicidal are about the only minority in western societies these days that can be legally prosecuted, imprisoned and abused at will. Which is why the so called 'mental health field' and psychiatry are so evil: they offer the ideological justification for widespread human rights violations and supply the concentration camp personnel to carry out said atrocities.

You're right. My understanding of what people are going through, and the realities of our health care system, give me serious doubts. I think EMTs and medics can do some good, but the approach to complex issues is hamfisted.

I'd like to be in a position where I could affect change. But anti-suicide is deeply entrenched in American society, just as bad as our poor healthcare system.

 

[LivingToLong]

He said, in a judgmental tone, "I've felt sad many times, but I've never wanted to kill myself. I think if you care about your friends and family members at all, you'd never kill yourself."

Ah yes, forcing you on a guilt trip. It's nonsense imho. You hear this said often (too often?) used as a pro-life argument but I do genuinely wonder how widely it is actually believed. I think it simply acts as a barrier to stop 'normal' people 'going there'. That is, to give themselves an excuse to NOT think about cbt - as if it's some dark place where only 'not normal' people go. As if to say 'I don't think about killing myself ergo I am normal'

@noctiva - I like your theory! I reckon it's there or there arounds in explaining the societal taboo that is suicide. I wonder if we have any anthropologists in the forum?

 

[BlueWidow]

I want to say that we are also propagating the idea that suicide isn't normal by referring to Those of no suicidal ideations as 'normal'. Which kind of implies that we are 'abnormal'. And reading threads here, we do think and feel abnormal, describing how we are different from 'normal' people, that we don't function 'normally'.
I think it's sad.

I have a theory about suicide, stemming from the way early tribes and societies worked. We lived in small groups, mainly larger family units, moving around a lot, hunting and gathering. Jobs were divided, who did what, how and when. Since it was a small group, every individual was needed. We didn't have a lot of 'spare' people that we could employ if one bit the dust. People die anyway, due to age, injury, infection. So suicide was not really acceptable because the group would shrink even further. The more we developed as a society, the more specialized the jobs got, baker, brewer, priest, scribe, hunter, farmer etc. If you lost someone who had a specialization, you'd be screwed, you don't have 3 blacksmiths in reserve you can just pull from the ranks, a new blacksmith needed training, for years, if not decades, to fully replace the old one, and who would guide this person learning the trade? I think that's where the idea of 'selfishness' comes from. If you killed yourself, you jeopardized the survival of the group. If you look at larger societies, such as ancient Rome, suicide was kinda sorta accepted, in some cases suicide was your only option left. Either you 'threw yourself on your sword', more or less voluntarily, or you were killed. The former lead to you dying with honor, if you needed to be killed, you'd be a coward and your family would be disgraced. So I think it is an option for a society to be accepting of suicide under some conditions if enough people are present within this society. In Rome, you could 'order' a new blacksmith from somewhere else in case yours died, whether due to age or due to suicide. The population was big enough and, most importantly, connected and unified enough, to allow for this.
After the fall of Rome however, society fragmented again into smaller and more closed communities, where it went back to suicide being less acceptable. Christianity plays a large role in this as well, but I don't really want to discuss this here seeing as we do have religious members here as well and I do not want to offend anyone. I'm sorry for this totally off topic rant, I've been thinking a lot about suicide lately, also from a point of view of society and history. If anyone has any thought on my brain fart above or has some sources about it, let me know. I'd love to hear from you.

If you read this far, my god, you deserve a medal. Take care and be kind to yourself.

Everything you said makes perfect sense to me.
I just read your post to second time. I also agree with what you said at the beginning of your post:


I want to say that we are also propagating the idea that suicide isn't normal by referring to Those of no suicidal ideations as 'normal'. Which kind of implies that we are 'abnormal'. And reading threads here, we do think and feel abnormal, describing how we are different from 'normal' people, that we don't function 'normally'.
I think it's sad.


When I was in college I was studying psychology and one of the first things we learned was that there is really no such thing as "normal".

 

[MeltingHeart]

I want to say that we are also propagating the idea that suicide isn't normal by referring to Those of no suicidal ideations as 'normal'. Which kind of implies that we are 'abnormal'. And reading threads here, we do think and feel abnormal, describing how we are different from 'normal' people, that we don't function 'normally'.
I think it's sad.

I have a theory about suicide, stemming from the way early tribes and societies worked. We lived in small groups, mainly larger family units, moving around a lot, hunting and gathering. Jobs were divided, who did what, how and when. Since it was a small group, every individual was needed. We didn't have a lot of 'spare' people that we could employ if one bit the dust. People die anyway, due to age, injury, infection. So suicide was not really acceptable because the group would shrink even further. The more we developed as a society, the more specialized the jobs got, baker, brewer, priest, scribe, hunter, farmer etc. If you lost someone who had a specialization, you'd be screwed, you don't have 3 blacksmiths in reserve you can just pull from the ranks, a new blacksmith needed training, for years, if not decades, to fully replace the old one, and who would guide this person learning the trade? I think that's where the idea of 'selfishness' comes from. If you killed yourself, you jeopardized the survival of the group. If you look at larger societies, such as ancient Rome, suicide was kinda sorta accepted, in some cases suicide was your only option left. Either you 'threw yourself on your sword', more or less voluntarily, or you were killed. The former lead to you dying with honor, if you needed to be killed, you'd be a coward and your family would be disgraced. So I think it is an option for a society to be accepting of suicide under some conditions if enough people are present within this society. In Rome, you could 'order' a new blacksmith from somewhere else in case yours died, whether due to age or due to suicide. The population was big enough and, most importantly, connected and unified enough, to allow for this.
After the fall of Rome however, society fragmented again into smaller and more closed communities, where it went back to suicide being less acceptable. Christianity plays a large role in this as well, but I don't really want to discuss this here seeing as we do have religious members here as well and I do not want to offend anyone. I'm sorry for this totally off topic rant, I've been thinking a lot about suicide lately, also from a point of view of society and history. If anyone has any thought on my brain fart above or has some sources about it, let me know. I'd love to hear from you.

If you read this far, my god, you deserve a medal. Take care and be kind to yourself.

There is an expression about suicide but I dont know the exact quote or where it came from- its something like- If one man harms (or kills) himself he in turn harms all men (I think in a nutshell - it basically-causes the devaluation of life itself-this so called sacred gift. It may well be from a religious source-though I am not certain-- also if you present a basic histoical fact or truth about Christianity, I dont think personally you should feel you have to censor that. They will obviously be open on discussing suicide and if there are theories that tie the together I think that is an interesting thing to look at- Im sure if someones faith is strong- it wont be shaken too easily ;) It is interesting to hear these cultural, historical and societal studies.

Of course medical and paramedical personnel have the legal duty pressed upon them to 'save' the suicidal. If you go into this field I'm afraid you won't have a choice if you're confronted with such situations or you'll be faced with disciplinary sactions and/or criminal neglect charges.

The suicidal are about the only minority in western societies these days that can be legally prosecuted, imprisoned and abused at will. Which is why the so called 'mental health field' and psychiatry are so evil: they offer the ideological justification for widespread human rights violations and supply the concentration camp personnel to carry out said atrocities.

prosecuted? in which Countries?

 

[Lilanel]

I want to say that we are also propagating the idea that suicide isn't normal by referring to Those of no suicidal ideations as 'normal'. Which kind of implies that we are 'abnormal'. And reading threads here, we do think and feel abnormal, describing how we are different from 'normal' people, that we don't function 'normally'.
I think it's sad.

I have a theory about suicide, stemming from the way early tribes and societies worked. We lived in small groups, mainly larger family units, moving around a lot, hunting and gathering. Jobs were divided, who did what, how and when. Since it was a small group, every individual was needed. We didn't have a lot of 'spare' people that we could employ if one bit the dust. People die anyway, due to age, injury, infection. So suicide was not really acceptable because the group would shrink even further. The more we developed as a society, the more specialized the jobs got, baker, brewer, priest, scribe, hunter, farmer etc. If you lost someone who had a specialization, you'd be screwed, you don't have 3 blacksmiths in reserve you can just pull from the ranks, a new blacksmith needed training, for years, if not decades, to fully replace the old one, and who would guide this person learning the trade? I think that's where the idea of 'selfishness' comes from. If you killed yourself, you jeopardized the survival of the group. If you look at larger societies, such as ancient Rome, suicide was kinda sorta accepted, in some cases suicide was your only option left. Either you 'threw yourself on your sword', more or less voluntarily, or you were killed. The former lead to you dying with honor, if you needed to be killed, you'd be a coward and your family would be disgraced. So I think it is an option for a society to be accepting of suicide under some conditions if enough people are present within this society. In Rome, you could 'order' a new blacksmith from somewhere else in case yours died, whether due to age or due to suicide. The population was big enough and, most importantly, connected and unified enough, to allow for this.
After the fall of Rome however, society fragmented again into smaller and more closed communities, where it went back to suicide being less acceptable. Christianity plays a large role in this as well, but I don't really want to discuss this here seeing as we do have religious members here as well and I do not want to offend anyone. I'm sorry for this totally off topic rant, I've been thinking a lot about suicide lately, also from a point of view of society and history. If anyone has any thought on my brain fart above or has some sources about it, let me know. I'd love to hear from you.

If you read this far, my god, you deserve a medal. Take care and be kind to yourself.

I understand about the word "normal," I actually put it in scare quotes because I dislike the term so much. I don't think there's anybody who's "normal," only people who have limited ability to deal with anything that extends beyond the tip of their nose.

That's a really interesting theory, I'm definitely going to put some thought into it. I wrote a paper about how the ideals of Christianity (more Catholicism, really) has affected the way that the United States government views and reacts to suicide. Since the United States highly favors the separation of church and state, I argued that this veiled religious sentiment should not affect the way laws are written. I have a lot of respect for religious people, as you noted—I just don't think that the ideals of a particular religion should be made legal precedent.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Ah yes, forcing you on a guilt trip. It's nonsense imho. You hear this said often (too often?) used as a pro-life argument but I do genuinely wonder how widely it is actually believed. I think it simply acts as a barrier to stop 'normal' people 'going there'. That is, to give themselves an excuse to NOT think about cbt - as if it's some dark place where only 'not normal' people go. As if to say 'I don't think about killing myself ergo I am normal'

@noctiva - I like your theory! I reckon it's there or there arounds in explaining the societal taboo that is suicide. I wonder if we have any anthropologists in the forum?

Id say to them- what if my 'so called' family have never ever cared about me- and that is a huge part of the reason I want to ctb. Then say so yeah-thanks for nothing.

 

[Lilanel]

There is an expression about suicide but I dont know the exact quote or where it came from- its something like- If one man harms (or kills) himself he in turn harms all men (I think in a nutshell - it basically-causes the devaluation of life itself-this so called sacred gift. It may well be from a religious source-though I am not certain-- also if you present a basic histoical fact or truth about Christianity, I dont think personally you should feel you have to censor that. They will obviously be open on discussing suicide and if there are theories that tie the together I think that is an interesting thing to look at- Im sure if someones faith is strong- it wont be shaken too easily ;) It is interesting to hear these cultural, historical and societal studies.

prosecuted? in which Countries?

Could it be from John Locke, "Of the State of Nature"? According to Locke, Man's first duty under the law of nature is to preserve himself, as he is a servant of God, the "one sovereign master." He "has not liberty to destroy himself," and he is bound "not to quit his station wilfully."

 

[MeltingHeart]

Could it be from John Locke, "Of the State of Nature"? According to Locke, Man's first duty under the law of nature is to preserve himself, as he is a servant of God, the "one sovereign master." He "has not liberty to destroy himself," and he is bound "not to quit his station wilfully."

Hmm certainly sounds similar in vein atleast! i quit the station could be the new ctb.

 

[BlueWidow]

After more consideration, everything the OP said makes sense to me. It made me recall something. Once when I was 14 and had ODd on pills, I had to go by ambulance to the hospital. I lived in a small town in the middle of nowhere and the nearest hospital with a psych ward was 30+ minutes away, even by ambulance.
I remember the female EMT spent most of the time ranting to me about what could a 14-year-old possibly have to commit suicide about. The inference, of course, was that because of my age my problems couldn't possibly be that serious.
After listening to her rant on and on for a while, I finally got very angry and I said, "You don't know the first thing about my life!", and I proceeded to tell her the circumstances of my birth, how my mother had died when I was only 3, the fact that I had 2 step mothers both of whom my father met in a bar. My first stepmother was cheating on my father with her ex-husband which caused serious issues in their marriage, then my second stepmother came from a marriage where her spouse had been cheating on her and, of course, my first stepmother had been cheating on my father so they both went into the relationship very suspicious of each other. All the drinking causes physical fights between my father and both of my stepmothers. My sister got cancer and died when I was 13. I started having a mental break down when I was 12, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
I had plenty of reasons to be suicidal by the time I was 14.
By the time we arrived at the hospital, the woman seemed completely dumbfounded by all the things I had just told her. She never apologized to me for lecturing me and belittling me by assuming that because I was only 14, I had no reason to end my life, but she didn't speak another word to me either.

 

[Lilanel]

After more consideration, everything the OP said makes sense to me. It made me recall something. Once when I was 14 and had ODd on pills, I had to go by ambulance to the hospital. I lived in a small town in the middle of nowhere and the nearest hospital with a psych ward was 30+ minutes away, even by ambulance.
I remember the female EMT spent most of the time ranting to me about what could a 14-year-old possibly have to commit suicide about. The inference, of course, was that because of my age my problems couldn't possibly be that serious.
After listening to her rant on and on for a while, I finally got very angry and I said, "You don't know the first thing about my life!", and I proceeded to tell her the circumstances of my birth, how my mother had died when I was only 3, the fact that I had 2 step mothers both of whom my father met in a bar. My first stepmother was cheating on my father with her ex-husband which caused serious issues in their marriage, then my second stepmother came from a marriage where her spouse had been cheating on her and, of course, my first stepmother had been cheating on my father so they both went into the relationship very suspicious of each other. All the drinking causes physical fights between my father and both of my stepmothers. My sister got cancer and died when I was 13. I started having a mental break down when I was 12, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
I had plenty of reasons to be suicidal by the time I was 14.
By the time we arrived at the hospital, the woman seemed completely dumbfounded by all the things I had just told her. She never apologized to me for lecturing me and belittling me by assuming that because I was only 14, I had no reason to end my life, but she didn't speak another word to me either.

I'm sorry you had that experience. That EMT sounds awful and unprofessional. From what I've heard, this anti-suicide attitude isn't uncommon in health care. I honestly wonder how people with so little humanity and empathy decided to get into a profession which really requires both.

I'm also sorry that you had so many difficult experiences as a child. You had (and still have) every right to be upset.

 

[noctiva]

After more consideration, everything the OP said makes sense to me. It made me recall something. Once when I was 14 and had ODd on pills, I had to go by ambulance to the hospital. I lived in a small town in the middle of nowhere and the nearest hospital with a psych ward was 30+ minutes away, even by ambulance.
I remember the female EMT spent most of the time ranting to me about what could a 14-year-old possibly have to commit suicide about. The inference, of course, was that because of my age my problems couldn't possibly be that serious.
After listening to her rant on and on for a while, I finally got very angry and I said, "You don't know the first thing about my life!", and I proceeded to tell her the circumstances of my birth, how my mother had died when I was only 3, the fact that I had 2 step mothers both of whom my father met in a bar. My first stepmother was cheating on my father with her ex-husband which caused serious issues in their marriage, then my second stepmother came from a marriage where her spouse had been cheating on her and, of course, my first stepmother had been cheating on my father so they both went into the relationship very suspicious of each other. All the drinking causes physical fights between my father and both of my stepmothers. My sister got cancer and died when I was 13. I started having a mental break down when I was 12, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
I had plenty of reasons to be suicidal by the time I was 14.
By the time we arrived at the hospital, the woman seemed completely dumbfounded by all the things I had just told her. She never apologized to me for lecturing me and belittling me by assuming that because I was only 14, I had no reason to end my life, but she didn't speak another word to me either.

I'm so sorry @BlueWidow, your story touches me more and more. I hear you, people always ask 'What do you have to kill yourself over?', and then naming everything I have. Afterwards they love to point out that there are people in some 3rd world country that would be so grateful to have this all, and that I need to cheer up and be grateful. This 'pain-competition' is not helping anyone, it doesn't make me grateful for what I have, it makes me resent the person that doesn't hear my pain. Me sharing my pain with people is a cry for help, it says 'Hei, I'm hurting over here, please help me! I cannot solve it myself, I cannot end the pain myself, please help me!'... and no one hears me, and no one helps. I feel so helpless and hopeless. And this feeling is not age dependent. It depends on being heard, being seen, no matter if you are 14 or 84.
Thank you again for sharing your story. Take care and be kind to yourself, you deserve the same thought and compassion you share with others.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Sometimes I feel like it is when people refer to yr sexuality as being a choice- the people that speak to me or rather shout at me make it feel like I have chosen to feel suicidal- perhaps this is the case for some people in someways- but I don't feel like I have chosen to feel this way- I just simply DO feel like this. I can't just switch it off & miraculously decide to want to live.

 

[BlueWidow]

I'm so sorry @BlueWidow, your story touches me more and more. I hear you, people always ask 'What do you have to kill yourself over?', and then naming everything I have. Afterwards they love to point out that there are people in some 3rd world country that would be so grateful to have this all, and that I need to cheer up and be grateful. This 'pain-competition' is not helping anyone, it doesn't make me grateful for what I have, it makes me resent the person that doesn't hear my pain. Me sharing my pain with people is a cry for help, it says 'Hei, I'm hurting over here, please help me! I cannot solve it myself, I cannot end the pain myself, please help me!'... and no one hears me, and no one helps. I feel so helpless and hopeless. And this feeling is not age dependent. It depends on being heard, being seen, no matter if you are 14 or 84.
Thank you again for sharing your story. Take care and be kind to yourself, you deserve the same thought and compassion you share with others.

Yes, I never understood why people feel the need to compare one person's pain to another person's pain, or one person's situation to another person's situation. People are unique. They have unique personalities, unique DNA, unique experiences, etc.
They always feel the need to point out how someone else in your situation overcame the obstacles and went on to achieve great success or whatever. Well good for them, but they aren't me and they haven't been through the same exact things that I have. It just irritates me when people do stuff like that because it's just another way to dismiss everything you've been through and what you're feeling and experiencing. And it isn't helpful!
Thank you for listening to my story. I've been
Reading your posts with interest as well. I've had so many things happened to me that there are many people who probably think I'm making a lot of it up, but I swear to you every bit of it is true. I've been told I should write a book and I probably could, if I could get my thoughts together and focus on one thing for long enough. At this point that would be the problem.

 

[Crystal Labeija]

Think about it this way: these people want to prevent suicide by mishandling how we talk about it. How successful do you think they will be?

 

[Corraled]

Its hard (impossible?) to understand feelings you have never experienced. Physical pain is common, so everyone gets it and feels sorry for people with physical pain. Less so progressively for less common feelings.

 

[CrushedHopes]

Think about it this way: these people want to prevent suicide by mishandling how we talk about it. How successful do you think they will be?

They won't be successful.

 

[WhiteDespair]

CtB is something very out of people's experience. Hard to explain that to people. It's like

 

[Crystal Labeija]

They won't be successful.

Which is exactly my point.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

It's unfortunate but I don't think you can expect 'normal' people to understand the level of despair and exhaustion that leads to suicidal thoughts.
They are shielded by the life delusion that is required to function in life. As they should be. But once you lose the functionality you also tend to lose the do and that sets you apart in your mindset.
Before my life collapsed I don't think I would have understood or condoned the act of suicide. Now I believe I have a deeper understanding. Tbh I'd rather not have if it meant I could live my life again.
To find someone who has not experienced suicidality but could also understand it I think would be a very rare thing

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

That some thoughts, values, perspectives and feelings aren't allowed or else meet with imprisonment or torture--even when they're about just us, our own lives--argues modern citizens are chattel of the state. People who openly talk about suicide, I think, may want someone else to help them and still think this can happen. I hope they get the help they want. But those of us who're serious about ctb know not to open our mouths. There's only one way that ends.

Contemporary psychology is the 20th/21st century official (abused) state religion. Its opinions are held up as true and right despite the wholesale lack of substantiation. Those who disagree are demonized and crushed.

 

[Meant2Die]

I wished we lived in a society that understood its everyones personal choice to end their life and that should be okay, bc no one can actually understand the pain you're going through bc they are not inside your body. No one commits suicide on a rash decision, more like after years and years of struggling and thoughtful contemplation .

 

[KN95]

I ducking despise people who say suicide is selfish. It sickens me. They really have no idea how lucky they are to not know what it feels like to want to die. Ignorance is bliss. And those douchebags lead good lives, being happy. It's a joke. Why is it that bad people who lack empathy and compassion get to be so happy