Discussion The stigma around personality disorders

[coolgal82]

Wtf is up woth all the stigma around personality disorders, especially cluster B disorders? Like yeah they can cause people to act in harmful ways but like that doesnt mean having that disorder makes you an awful person? they can easily be treated if the person seeks treatment and having one doesn't automatically make you evil, yet i see the idea pushed around so often, even here where i thought it'd be less common. Honestly as someone who possibly has one and is in the process of like going to see a psychiatrist it feels kinda alienating, like even if it isnt confirmed and it might not be that seeing all the hate around these things just makes me feel awful.

Why can people realise with other conditions that the people suffering from them arent all awful people but for some conditions they just cant wrap their heads around it? especially with how like the term "narcissist" is used like people with NPD arent all automatically awful people because of their disorder but the label of narcissist is just slapped onto anyone who does bad stuff really, and i feel that doesnt help with the stigma. Alot of the stigma is just driven by very poor media representation i think, like for BPD you have the whole psycho yandere trope which also doesnt help with representation, and for ASPD ofc you have the whole thing of them all being serial killers even when plenty of people with it can just live normal lives (also how the terms psychopath/sociopath are used/seen tbh). (as for HPD i don't know enough about it to really talk about any stigma against it but if you know anything feel free to like chime in)

Idfk. it's all so tiring, as i said, why can people account for some disorders/conditions and realise the person isnt that condition, but for these types they just cant? i hate it. Thanks for coming to my ted talk. feel free to add anything you want (unless youre just gonna be the type of person i described lmao)

 

[Mirrory Me]

Well, some people are too kind to them.

 

[kunikuzushi]

I could write an essay right now about how much I hate cluster B personality disorders stigma but it's 4am. I agree with everything you said. Harming other people is not a requirement for any of the diagnoses. The term "narcissistic abuse" makes me want to rip my hair out. It just describes abuse that anyone is capable and has nothing to do with NPD. The word narcissist itself has lost all meaning in relation to the people suffering with NPD.

Anyway sorry for rambling. I highly recommend checking out Dr. Ettensohn/Heal NPD on youtube. He talks a lot about this and has great information that actually gives me hope.

 

[coolgal82]

Well, some people are too kind to them.

what do you mean by this exactly? because like i agree no one should be unaccountable but there are reasonable exceptions you can make in some behaviour due to someones condition if they realise that its negative and are actively seeking help for it. ofc if someone doesn't care or refuses to accept it it's slightly different but idk.

 

[derpyderpins]

It's ignorance. I don't mean that insultingly, I just mean that most people are never taught about anything mental health related.

And in fairness the terms are confusing if you are uneducated. Just like how someone can feel "depressed" without suffering from the mental health condition "depression."

If you don't have a personality disorder and behave narcissistically, that's just you being a dick/bitch - because you can help it and are choosing not to. So if you tell someone a person has NPD, they probably don't understand that said person can't always help it, and is in fact working with experts to try and control the symptoms.

Awareness and understanding may take a long time, unfortunately.

 

[coolgal82]

It's ignorance. I don't mean that insultingly, I just mean that most people are never taught about anything mental health related.

And in fairness the terms are confusing if you are uneducated. Just like how someone can feel "depressed" without suffering from the mental health condition "depression."

If you don't have a personality disorder and behave narcissistically, that's just you being a dick/bitch - because you can help it and are choosing not to. So if you tell someone a person has NPD, they probably don't understand that said person can't always help it, and is in fact working with experts to try and control the symptoms.

Awareness and understanding may take a long time, unfortunately.

honestly society would benefit from like some type of basic psychology especially about this stuff being taught in schools

 

[Forever Sleep]

I can completely understand how it would make you feel alienated and I'm sorry about that because I expect I've contributed to that.

I'm sure there are very self aware people who try to reign in behaviours they feel compelled to do but know will hurt others. Maybe all of us have to do that now and then.

I suppose the problem is, some members here may well feel like their life has been destroyed or at least, severely damaged by such people. I first became suicidal when I was 10 in large part because I believe I grew up with a narcissist, and it was hell. (Probably for the both of us to be fair.)

While the bigger person would try to understand and forgive the way they behaved, it's kind of difficult when it's had such a massive impact on your life. And when the behaviours were so utterly malicious. I'm afraid I definitely have very strong biases because of all that.

As for the term being thrown around- again- fair. But, just to try and explain it from the other point of view. This person in my childhood began by bullying me, progressed to turning other people against me, progressed to accusing me of doing things I hadn't done- to everyone- friends, parents, teachers, head teachers.

At the time, I was simply just terrified of them and what they might do next. As I grew though, I began to think some of their behaviours were utterly bizarre. Like- why would you outright lie about someone? Why pretend to be the persecuted one when you are doing all the persecuting? Were they psychotic? Did they just imagine it? I was so stupid and meek when I was young that I seriously wondered whether I had slept walked to do some of the things they accused me of!

They always (and still do) hold a very high opinion of themselves so, from that, I started to look into narcissism. I can't really explain the weird sense of relief I felt when all of their behaviours were there. I actually don't agree with @kunikuzushi over this. I feel like abuse from narcissists definitely has certain traits- love bombing in relationships at the start, gas lighting, playing the victim, the use of 'flying monkeys'- getting other people to take their side and join in with the bullying.

I think it can actually help people on the receiving end of all that crap to put a name to it. It's not official of course. Plus, I guess it depends on the level they're at. We probably all have toxic sides to us. Honestly though, I think some people are outright dangerous and it's important for the safety of others that they can recognise those behaviours, their severity and whether they can work together on them or flee to be quite honest. The very extreme cases can become violent- even homicidal. Obviously not saying that the majority do of course.

 

[coolgal82]

I can completely understand how it would make you feel alienated and I'm sorry about that because I expect I've contributed to that.

I'm sure there are very self aware people who try to reign in behaviours they feel compelled to do but know will hurt others. Maybe all of us have to do that now and then.

I suppose the problem is, some members here may well feel like their life has been destroyed or at least, severely damaged by such people. I first became suicidal when I was 10 in large part because I believe I grew up with a narcissist, and it was hell. (Probably for the both of us to be fair.)

While the bigger person would try to understand and forgive the way they behaved, it's kind of difficult when it's had such a massive impact on your life. And when the behaviours were so utterly malicious. I'm afraid I definitely have very strong biases because of all that.

As for the term being thrown around- again- fair. But, just to try and explain it from the other point of view. This person in my childhood began by bullying me, progressed to turning other people against me, progressed to accusing me of doing things I hadn't done- to everyone- friends, parents, teachers, head teachers.

At the time, I was simply just terrified of them and what they might do next. As I grew though, I began to think some of their behaviours were utterly bizarre. Like- why would you outright lie about someone? Why pretend to be the persecuted one when you are doing all the persecuting? Were they psychotic? Did they just imagine it? I was so stupid and meek when I was young that I seriously wondered whether I had slept walked to do some of the things they accused me of!

They always (and still do) hold a very high opinion of themselves so, from that, I started to look into narcissism. I can't really explain the weird sense of relief I felt when all of their behaviours were there. I actually don't agree with @kunikuzushi over this. I feel like abuse from narcissists definitely has certain traits- love bombing in relationships at the start, gas lighting, playing the victim, the use of 'flying monkeys'- getting other people to take their side and join in with the bullying.

I think it can actually help people on the receiving end of all that crap to put a name to it. It's not official of course. Plus, I guess it depends on the level they're at. We probably all have toxic sides to us. Honestly though, I think some people are outright dangerous and it's important for the safety of others that they can recognise those behaviours, their severity and whether they can work together on them or flee to be quite honest. The very extreme cases can become violent- even homicidal. Obviously not saying that the majority do of course.

i can understand having that like gut reaction based on experiences and that and personally like as long as you don't try and apply it to like everyone else with the condition or act as everyone is the same as that person then i think its definitely like an understandable thing and fine to feel that way

 

[Mirrory Me]

what do you mean by this exactly?

Everyone wants love, but some are crooked about it.

 

[KillingPain267]

Yeah I always found it annoying how people throw around the term nercissist or sociopath without having authority to diagnose. Even actual psychiatrists who are on YouTube call people in the media these terms, but have to disclose a disclaimer that they are not actually diagnosing, but then go on to basically diagnose a person they've never met, lol. And viewers gobble it up. It's a classic case of confirmation bias or Rorchach test where people read about the symptoms of those personality disorders and then see it everywhere in everyone or whoever they don't like. It's also a modern phenomenon to pathologize bad behavior. Before the 1700s, evil was just evil (although some believed in demon possession causing evil).

 

[vitbar]

Part of the reason the word narcissist gets thrown around is that it predates the medical use. The word on its own includes people who wouldn't meet the diagnostic criteria for NPD.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Part of the reason the word narcissist gets thrown around is that it predates the medical use. The word on its own includes people who wouldn't meet the diagnostic criteria for NPD.

While the word on its own doesn't include people with NDP, the rise in awareness of that particular disorder has led many to conflate the two. As a result, a lot of people using that term are doing so under the guise that they believe that the person harming them has the disorder which has led to the disorder being stigmatized. Along with that, "narcissistic" has become a buzz term and narcissistic abuse isn't that much different from other forms of emotional abuse. From what I've heard of it, it's a very vague term that lacks a clear and consistent definition.

I personally say, if the term is harming those with NDP then let's just stop using it altogether. There are other ways to describe that abuse you've gone through that don't involve potentially pushing more stigma towards an already heavily stigmatized mental illness.

 

[vitbar]

While the word on its own doesn't include people with NDP, the rise in awareness of that particular disorder has led many to conflate the two. As a result, a lot of people using that term are doing so under the guise that they believe that the person harming them has the disorder which has led to the disorder being stigmatized. Along with that, "narcissistic" has become a buzz term and narcissistic abuse isn't that much different from other forms of emotional abuse. From what I've heard of it, it's a very vague term that lacks a clear and consistent definition.

I personally say, if the term is harming those with NDP then let's just stop using it altogether. There are other ways to describe that abuse you've gone through that don't involve potentially pushing more stigma towards an already heavily stigmatized mental illness.

yeah I have seen this and agree with dropping the term outside of medicine.