The Myth that mentally ill people are not capable of choosing.

[Zzzzz]

If someone kills themself because they are struggling with a mental illness, that is NO different from a cancer patient killing themself Because of their illness. The vast majority of mentally ill/depressed/suicidal clearly have the capacity to think rationally and choose for themselves. This myth has been perpetuated to try to force people to stay alive, with the assumption that life is always preferable to death, and that someone must surely not be thinking clearly in that decision. This is a lie. Many people genuinely prefer death to life.

 

[TAW122]

If someone kills themself because they are struggling with a mental illness, that is NO different from a cancer patient killing themself Because of their illness. The vast majority of mentally ill/depressed/suicidal clearly have the capacity to think rationally and choose for themselves. This myth has been perpetuated to try to force people to stay alive, with the assumption that life is always preferable to death, and that someone must surely not be thinking clearly in that decision. This is a lie. Many people genuinely prefer death to life.

Well said, and on the same logic, pro-lifers, suicide preventionists, and those that advocate for punishment and the death penalty contradict themselves when it comes to wanting to punish and convict criminals. They clearly don't share this logic when it comes to administering justice, which makes them hypocrites. In fact, they seem to ignore that criminals can be mentally ill and always assume that the criminal knew what he/she was doing, was sane and rational, not mentally ill. In a sense, society is being intellectually dishonest, cherry picking, and deciding what to include/exclude. If they were to be consistent, then they would either have to accept both scenarios as not thinking clearly or accept that both scenarios, they are sane. Sorry to go a bit off tangent.

Anyways, I agree with your logic and yes, this mentality and attitude about life is always preferable to death and that people aren't thinking clearly is indeed a big FAT lie propogated by a sick society.

 

[Jodes]

I have my equipment stored sn hours drive away so I can't get it on a whim while seriousky depressed which keeps me at home unless my physical health hits hard. Then Ill go once I've tidied up loose ends

 

[Tyuiop]

I agree with your point, but there is a problem with depression... It is not incurable, there are people who actually get rid of it. And sometimes depressed people are really not thinking clearly(I definitely don't think clearly most of the time). Of course, if you've been depressed for like ten years, or have another psychiatric illness like schizophrenia, you should be allowed to ctb, but depression can actually pass once life circumstances are improved.
The point is that a person should only ctb if they really don't enjoy life anymore, not because of reasons like "everyone hates me", "girlfriend/boyfriend left me", etc.

 

[Empty Smile]

I agree with your point, but there is a problem with depression... It is not incurable, there are people who actually get rid of it. And sometimes depressed people are really not thinking clearly(I definitely don't think clearly most of the time). Of course, if you've been depressed for like ten years, or have another psychiatric illness like schizophrenia, you should be allowed to ctb, but depression can actually pass once life circumstances are improved.
The point is that a person should only ctb if they really don't enjoy life anymore, not because of reasons like "everyone hates me", "girlfriend/boyfriend left me", etc.

I have dealt with depression for decades. Meds, therapists, psych wards, nothing helped. Then you know you've hit rock bottom when they tell you there's "Nothing else we can do for you."

 

[Fucking loving it]

I have dealt with depression for decades. Meds, therapists, psych wards, nothing helped. Then you know you've hit rock bottom when they tell you there's "Nothing else we can do for you."

Have you had ECT? That's the last option my psychiatrist has. I don't want to do it.

 

[Norest4thewicked]

I agree with your point, but there is a problem with depression... It is not incurable, there are people who actually get rid of it. And sometimes depressed people are really not thinking clearly(I definitely don't think clearly most of the time). Of course, if you've been depressed for like ten years, or have another psychiatric illness like schizophrenia, you should be allowed to ctb, but depression can actually pass once life circumstances are improved.
The point is that a person should only ctb if they really don't enjoy life anymore, not because of reasons like "everyone hates me", "girlfriend/boyfriend left me", etc.

I've had depression and other conditions for over thirty years and I agree. There is a difference between the long term clinically depressed and an individual unfortunate enough to have a once in a lifetime but fully recoverable depressive episode. In my experience, meds, therepy, hospitals only offer us a temporary respite, if at all. With myself, it feels like I'm stuck on a never ending merry go round. I know ive had enough. But as you say, for the recoverable ones, you have to give them a chance to make it through.

 

[Miss clefable]

One word bullshit

 

[ron_g]

Confirmation bias leads poeple to believe that. And the lack of experience of permanent, unrelievable and unbearable suffering.

 

[Zzzzz]

I agree with your point, but there is a problem with depression... It is not incurable, there are people who actually get rid of it. And sometimes depressed people are really not thinking clearly(I definitely don't think clearly most of the time). Of course, if you've been depressed for like ten years, or have another psychiatric illness like schizophrenia, you should be allowed to ctb, but depression can actually pass once life circumstances are improved.
The point is that a person should only ctb if they really don't enjoy life anymore, not because of reasons like "everyone hates me", "girlfriend/boyfriend left me", etc.

Even if depression could be cured, every adult still deserves the right to choose for themselves, whether life or death. They do not need someone else deciding for them whether they live or die. That is Oppressive. Anyone who is able to communicate their will for themself deserves a choice.

 

[Empty Smile]

Have you had ECT? That's the last option my psychiatrist has. I don't want to do it.

Sorry for not responding sooner, I am just now seeing it. But to answer your question, no, never had an ECT done.

 

[J Tizzle]

Have you had ECT? That's the last option my psychiatrist has. I don't want to do it.

Someone I knew tried ECT. He was put under and didn't feel a thing. I picked him up after his first session (he was fine) and one of the first things he said to me was, "You know, I really think there's something to this."

I agree with this thread mostly, but I also agree there are some exceptions. For me, I was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder about four years ago. I had intrusive, violent thoughts, and I was convinced demons wanted me to kill people and I was a danger. I made plans to kill myself so I wouldn't harm others, but told others it was because I was suffering. Turns out there was an infection in my brain, and after getting on heavy antibiotics, the psychosis cleared up and hasn't returned. I couldn't think logically and ctb back then would have been wrong. Now, that's a really crazy, unique situation and it doesn't happen often. Today I can think very clearly and rationally, and my decision is based on the fact that I'm in a lot of physical pain and cannot support myself.

Again, totally weird, unique situation. Though as an after thought, if they never figured out it was an infection and I was doomed to live like that, I believe ctb would have been the right call. It was absolute agony that nobody deserves.

 

[Lefty]

I agree that some people who are depressed can be cured or get help. However those who suffer from chronic mental illness or depression should be able to have the right to die. Or have the option to one of those suicide pills or whatever they're called. I've been dealing with depression/mental illness for a long time now and I've finally reached the end of my rope. I'm really hoping to end it before 2019 arrives or I turn 30.

 

[TAW122]

I agree that some people who are depressed can be cured or get help. However those who suffer from chronic mental illness or depression should be able to have the right to die. Or have the option to one of those suicide pills or whatever they're called. I've been dealing with depression/mental illness for a long time now and I've finally reached the end of my rope. I'm really hoping to end it before 2019 arrives or I turn 30.

I've suffered throughout most of my life too. Not just socially but also financially and professional/career wise. While I did earn degrees and what not, I still don't believe my life is any better; my problems are permanent, such as Aspergers, social anxiety, and what not. Also, given the way the things are going in society and the world around me, I want out even more (not limited to depressing news, all the tragedies, injustices, inequality, and what not). I may have temporary stretches of semi-decent times and joy, but those are fleeting and short lived.

 

[[NoName]]

If someone kills themself because they are struggling with a mental illness, that is NO different from a cancer patient killing themself Because of their illness. The vast majority of mentally ill/depressed/suicidal clearly have the capacity to think rationally and choose for themselves. This myth has been perpetuated to try to force people to stay alive, with the assumption that life is always preferable to death, and that someone must surely not be thinking clearly in that decision. This is a lie. Many people genuinely prefer death to life.

People want to be convinced being suicidal is just caused by mental illness because that opens so many uncomfortable questions about our world.

• What is so bad about our society that they would do this?
• Could I have done something to prevent this?
• Why did they make that choice? Will this encourage others to make their decision?

If anyone is interested in reading about this topic, here is a reading recommendation (I still need to read it myself, maybe after school is done.)

"Fatal Freedom: The Ethics and Politics of Suicide:
This is a defence of every individual's right to choose a voluntary death. By maintaining statutes that determine that voluntary death is not legal, Thomas Szasz believes that our society is forfeiting one of its basic freedoms and causing the psychiatric medical establishment to treat individuals in a manner that is disturbingly inhumane. Society's penchant for defining behaviour it terms objectionable as a disease has created a psychiatric establishment that exerts far too much influence over how and when we choose to die. In a compelling argument, which addresses the most significant ethical issues of our time, Szasz compares suicide to other practices that historically began as sins, became crimes, and then mental illnesses. This book answers some of the most significant ethical questions of our time: is suicide a volutary act of an act of mental illness? Should physicians be permitted to prevent it? Should they be authorized to abet it?"

If anyone is interested where I got this book rec from, here's the video! (I know I posted this video before, but it's so good! and it does directly relate to this topic so )

If the recitation of hamlet puts you off at first, just wait like a minute or two.

 

[Tyuiop]

Even if depression could be cured, every adult still deserves the right to choose for themselves, whether life or death. They do not need someone else deciding for them whether they live or die. That is Oppressive. Anyone who is able to communicate their will for themself deserves a choice.

I'm not trying to be oppressive here, but death is something there's no way out of. And we don't know what happens. I think the Netherlands model of assisted suicide is right - prove you're in unbearable suffering and you will get your peace, no matter how old you are. And usually nobody wants to die unless they're suffering. So what society should do is try to alleviate their suffering first instead of just giving everyone an easy way to ctb. There are people who ctb for political or philosophical reasons, but they're very rare.
Edit:
Maybe my point of view is wrong here, everyone is welcome to provide their own points.

 

[therhydler]

I agree completely with your statement. Even though in many cases depression can be somewhat eased, everyone should have the right to decide for themselves when they are absolutely sick of suffering and want to die. No-one can ever know the mental anguish of another human being unless they could magically enter their minds and no "normal" person will ever understand the suffering of someone who is and has been for a long time seriously suicidal.

Another thing I hate is the conception that anyone who has had a suicide attempt must be mentally ill - most likely depressed - and that drugs and therapy will fix this. No. Not always.

 

[Nerdyartist85]

I agree with your point, but there is a problem with depression... It is not incurable, there are people who actually get rid of it. And sometimes depressed people are really not thinking clearly(I definitely don't think clearly most of the time). Of course, if you've been depressed for like ten years, or have another psychiatric illness like schizophrenia, you should be allowed to ctb, but depression can actually pass once life circumstances are improved.
The point is that a person should only ctb if they really don't enjoy life anymore, not because of reasons like "everyone hates me", "girlfriend/boyfriend left me", etc.

I agree that depression can be curable and temporary for some, and it's great if the resources that work for them helps.

I wish I could say I was like that; I've had depression and anxiety for 17 years. I've gone through the montions with it; see a doctor, get pills, go to therapy, crash and burn to the point of hospitalization, new meds, new doctors, new therapist...lather, rinse, repeat...

I may think irrationally at times, but wanting to ctb for that long can't be a moment of not thinking straight. I'm tired of fighting (and the thought of dealing with this for another 17+ years) and feel I should have a choice of staying or going.

 

[Tyuiop]

I agree that depression can be curable and temporary for some, and it's great if the resources that work for them helps.

I wish I could say I was like that; I've had depression and anxiety for 17 years. I've gone through the montions with it; see a doctor, get pills, go to therapy, crash and burn to the point of hospitalization, new meds, new doctors, new therapist...lather, rinse, repeat...

I may think irrationally at times, but wanting to ctb for that long can't be a moment of not thinking straight. I'm tired of fighting (and the thought of dealing with this for another 17+ years) and feel I should have a choice of staying or going.

I also believe you should have that, that's why the Netherlands model appeals to me. They're not very progressive, but they're getting there. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/17/assisted-dying-euthanasia-netherlands

 

[Louise]

Totally concur with this. I have bipolar 1, I suffer daily and resent deeply the paternalistic notion that people with diagnosed mental illnesses can't make a rational choice. Makes me angry actually.

Thanks for posting the video, I loved it!

People want to be convinced being suicidal is just caused by mental illness because that opens so many uncomfortable questions about

• What is so bad about our society that they would do this?
• Could I have done something to prevent this?
• Why did they make that choice? Will this encourage others to make their decision?

If anyone is interested in reading about this topic, here is a reading recommendation (I still need to read it myself, maybe after school is done.)

"Fatal Freedom: The Ethics and Politics of Suicide:
This is a defence of every individual's right to choose a voluntary death. By maintaining statutes that determine that voluntary death is not legal, Thomas Szasz believes that our society is forfeiting one of its basic freedoms and causing the psychiatric medical establishment to treat individuals in a manner that is disturbingly inhumane. Society's penchant for defining behaviour it terms objectionable as a disease has created a psychiatric establishment that exerts far too much influence over how and when we choose to die. In a compelling argument, which addresses the most significant ethical issues of our time, Szasz compares suicide to other practices that historically began as sins, became crimes, and then mental illnesses. This book answers some of the most significant ethical questions of our time: is suicide a volutary act of an act of mental illness? Should physicians be permitted to prevent it? Should they be authorized to abet it?"

If anyone is interested where I got this book rec from, here's the video! (I know I posted this video before, but it's so good! and it does directly relate to this topic so )

If the recitation of hamlet puts you off at first, just wait like a minute or two.

 

[Jodes]

It shouldn't have to be unbearable suffering, that I know I believe for sure. Who has the right to put anyone through that for any length of time

 

[Tyuiop]

It shouldn't have to be unbearable suffering, that I know I believe for sure.

But if you want to ctb, aren't you in suffering already, unless you're doing it political or philosophical reasons? I think just the urge to die qualifies as suffering already, it doesn't have to be that you're crying in pain. And people can hide their own emotions from themselves well.

 

[Jodes]

But if you want to ctb, aren't you in suffering already, unless you're doing it political or philosophical reasons? I think just the urge to die qualifies as suffering already, it doesn't have to be that you're crying in pain. And people can hide their own emotions from themselves well.

True - maybe you can "measure" suffering as easily as that