Resource The Good and Effed SN Preparation and Practice Journal

[GoodPersonEffed]

In solid pill form, it will take longer to break down than crushing it up so that is an interesting plan, as it takes 20 minutes at least to start kicking in to a full hour.
....

That said, I doubt doing a test of one pill would make a big difference because that still leaves 190 MG, which is overkill in the interest of preventing seizures.

I will take your advice and try just one.

I'm actually more into it for the loss of consciousness than the seizures, that part is a bonus. :)

I am leaning toward taking them whole and then when I start to feel drowsy, taking the Propanolol and SN, I just hope I don't conk out before I'm done drinking the latter. But it might be wiser than dissolving the Diazepam and getting knocked out really fast.

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience!

 

[SpaceForGrace]

Thanks for sharing this @GoodPersonEffed. So, Quo Vadis now?

Also, forgot exactly where, but I have read in the forums that acetaminophen might be better than ibuprofen? Of course what you took what not exactly SN, but maybe something you want to look into.

I also hope that the actual SN will render you unconscious faster or more "woozy" to no longer be able to mind some of the symptoms you have reported here by using salt.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Thanks for sharing this @GoodPersonEffed. So, Quo Vadis now?

Also, forgot exactly where, but I have read in the forums that acetaminophen might be better than ibuprofen? Of course what you took what not exactly SN, but maybe something you want to look into.

Nescio quo ego vado! Quo vadis vos?

Yeah, I saw that. Thank you! Will read it again.

Five minutes later...

Yes, it Tylenol can potentiate SN:

Drug Interaction Report: sodium nitrite, Tylenol

View detailed report of drug-drug and drug-food interactions for sodium nitrite, Tylenol

www.drugs.com

However I think I'll stick with Ibuprofen since it works better for me with headaches, and I've already potentiated with Propanolol. Thank you, though! Good catch! Perhaps the info will help someone else who visits this thread.

 

[SpaceForGrace]

Also, while it may be true that SN may be idealized here and in the PPH, there must be some value in our minds believing (and hoping) that while there will be discomfort - it is dying after all - it is a crossing that we can face, it is a finality we can overcome.

Post tenebras lux.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Also, while it may be true that SN may be idealized here and in the PPH, there must be some value in our minds believing (and hoping) that while there will be discomfort, it is a crossing that we can face, it is a finality we can overcome.

Post tenebras lux.

There is definitely much-needed support in faith...as long as it isn't faith that says only one gender can have SN, and force to live anyone who believes in a different method! Then, post lux tenebras!

 

[SpaceForGrace]

So where do you go from here then? Will you continue testing, look for another method, etc?

Hope the question is ok to ask. No answer needed.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

So where do you go from here then? Will you continue testing, look for another method, etc?

Hope the question is ok to ask. No answer needed.

This thread is about the method.

My personal journey is not a suspense movie for your entertainment. Or anyone else's.

I was humorously evasive at your previous intrusiveness asking the same question in Latin, now I am direct:

Back off.

I call out that you passively and regularly encourage me to move forward in ctb in order to encourage yourself. I directly and respectfully pointed this out to you privately, and you responded by doing it again here, publicly.

I do not like your directive and derailing presence on this thread.

Please leave my party or I'll call the mod police. I won't be engaging with you again.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Last night I took 10 mg of Valium. I felt the first effects at 20 minutes, and was ready to sleep at an hour.

Will test again with 20 mg to determine if I get sleepy more quickly after the initial effects.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Took 20 mg last night. As before, initial effects in 20 minutes. Definitely stronger than 10 mg.

Next experiment: dissolve 10 mg and compare time of onset, intensity, and effects.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Tried dissolving 10 mg Diazepam in water and drinking. Dissolved in 5 minutes. Very quickly experienced mild but irritating hypertension. Was sleepy within an hour but the entire experience felt different than taking whole tablets, even the sleepiness felt different, not as calming.

Do not recommend dissolving Diazepam. Will not do so for my method. Will take whole tablets, wait an hour or until very close to losing consciousness, and proceed with SN/Propranolol drink.

 

[NotWhatIExpected]

I can't get N, chloroquine, or F. My cartoids refuse to have a personal relationship with me. I freak over suffocation. I'm terrified of heights. I'm not desperate enough to hang.

SN it is then.

I've been writing letters, doing visualizations, making lists, playing around with how I want the method to work for me. I was hugely inspired today by @H_K_A, who posted that they tested 25 g table salt in 50 ml water and had a reaction of vomiting. Their example kicked up my confidence and capability.

This here thread is my prep journal for a successful SN ctb.

My method is a work in progress, but I'm putting this up front: It is personal. I'm the only one who's going to die my death, otherwise I would gladly book you a posh hotel room and buy you a plane ticket and all of your preferred supplies so you could come die for me in grand SN style (no really, I would). That said, I welcome your comments, otherwise I would keep this shit to myself, I just ask that you pretty please try to chill about how I do me.

The guide is one of many references I'm using. PPH is another. Plus others' and my own independent research, and convos on the forum. Also working on a list of symptoms from the success/failure threads. This writer is gonna do some semi-scientific method.

I may use capsules to ingest the SN, I may not. I'm going to do some experiments with sea salt as a substitute. Even if it poorly mimics SN, it will increase my confidence by working with a salty placebo. And I've got tons of sea salt, bottled water, and empty capsules. It's on.

If I feel well, tomorrow morning I will nut up while my stomach is still empty, take some Ibuprofen and a stat dose of Meto, and swig the sea salt drink. I'll report what happens. And yeah, suckas, I get Meto OTC where I live, I ain't gotta hoard that shit. (Just for the Meto, go ahead and hit Ignore now, you will never like me again.)

Is table salt supposed to be similar at all to drinking sodium nitrite?

(Not directed at @RoseyBird! This is for the journal.)

From another thread, a survivor of SN due to the challenges of symptoms:



So damn true.

SN death is not something I desire, my test run confirmed it. But for me there's no better alternative. Damned cartoids, damned challenges of obtaining N.

I sometimes think SN is a bit idealized on this forum, I think the reality is that for most it is just not peaceful. I also think Nitzschke peddles disinformation, so my trust around this method is at a level of rational suspicion, hence the need to test and engage with it for myself as much as I am reasonably able to.

What's your reasoning for thinking Nitschke peddles disinformation?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Is table salt supposed to be similar at all to drinking sodium nitrite?

I respectfully advise you read this detailed journal and other success/failure accounts to determine for yourself.

What's your reasoning for thinking Nitschke peddles disinformation?

This is my reasoning:

• Unlike medical documents, the PPH does not reference other sources to support his claims. His authority is that he is a doctor, but he does not "stand on the shoulders of
giants" to validate his advice and claims, he is the giant. The claim of authority, such as that of a doctor, is a common manipulative advertising practice of persuasion to trust in a product or its producer.

• He suggests specific Latin American veterinary supply resources (not A, but shops) for N but does not update the guide when they are no longer good sources. This creates unfulfillable hope, expensive trips, and extraordinary efforts based on trust. Updating the info in updates would do much to prove a desire to be worthy of and earn trust as an authority.

• He does not document the reasons for rating any method as peaceful, reliable, etc., and the ratings and methods change with updates, leading to confusion, which makes one more easy to manipulate.

• He makes the PPH desirable by limiting access to it. Scarcity increases desire, which overrides critical thinking and suspicion. Desperation for a means of peaceful exit also overrides critical thinking and suspicion, which the scarcity increases. Scarcity is a common manipulative advertising practice of persuasion.

• He dangles the carrot of the debreather, but postpones its release after setting expectations of availability by publishing release dates. This is another example of scarcity.

• All good disinformation has some truth, otherwise no one would listen.

• I do not have to know the purpose of manipulation, only to recognize it. There is no burden of proof on me to find a notice in order to justify my assertion; the burden of proof is on him to prove worthy of trust in following his guidance. Based on his actions, and my understanding of manipulation and disinformation, I am confident that he is unworthy of trust. Others can disagree and I have no problem with that.

These are just some of my reasons. There is a thread titled Manipulation Tactics in Off Topic if you have a desire to educate yourself about them. There are multiple documented sources on the thread.

I do not seek to convince you, only to answer your question, which my assertion in the OP led you to ask, so it is relevant to the thread. However if you desire to discuss this further or to open a debate, I respectfully ask that you create a new thread. I do not wish to see this thread derailed as it has a very clear and specific purpose -- journaling my practice and preparation for my potential use of the SN method, and engaging in dialogue about it for my benefit and others'. Based on your questions on the other thread, and your using the link to this one, I hope you find benefit here, but if not, it's all good.

 

[NotWhatIExpected]

I respectfully advise you read this detailed journal and other success/failure accounts to determine for yourself.



This is my reasoning:

• Unlike medical documents, the PPH does not reference other sources to support his claims. His authority is that he is a doctor, but he does not "stand on the shoulders of
giants" to validate his advice and claims, he is the giant. The claim of authority, such as that of a doctor, is a common manipulative advertising practice of persuasion to trust in a product or its producer.

• He suggests specific Latin American veterinary supply resources (not A, but shops) for N but does not update the guide when they are no longer good sources. This creates unfulfillable hope, expensive trips, and extraordinary efforts based on trust. Updating the info in updates would do much to prove a desire to be worthy of and earn trust as an authority.

• He does not document the reasons for rating any method as peaceful, reliable, etc., and the ratings and methods change with updates, leading to confusion, which makes one more easy to manipulate.

• He makes the PPH desirable by limiting access to it. Scarcity increases desire, which overrides critical thinking and suspicion. Desperation for a means of peaceful exit also overrides critical thinking and suspicion, which the scarcity increases. Scarcity is a common manipulative advertising practice of persuasion.

• He dangles the carrot of the debreather, but postpones its release after setting expectations of availability by publishing release dates. This is another example of scarcity.

• Alll good disinformation has some truth, otherwise no one would listen.

• I do not have to know the purpose of manipulation, only to recognize it. There is no burden of proof on me to find a notice in order to justify my assertion; the burden of proof is on him to prove worthy of trust in following his guidance. Based on his actions, and my understanding of manipulation and disinformation, I am confident that he is unworthy of trust. Others can disagree and I have no problem with that.

These are just some of my reasons. There is a thread titled Manipulation Tactics in Off Topic if you have a desire to educate yourself about them. There are multiple documented sources on the thread.

I do not seek to convince you, only to answer your question, which my assertion in the OP led you to ask, so it is relevant to the thread. However if you desire to discuss this further or to open a debate, I respectfully ask that you create a new thread. I do not wish to see this thread derailed as it has a very clear and specific purpose -- journaling my practice and preparation for my potential use of the SN method, and engaging in dialogue about it for my benefit and others'. Based on your questions on the other thread, and your using the link to this one, I hope you find benefit here, but if not, it's all good.

Well, I see what you mean, although I would say it's possible that's not as bad as straight up giving you a method that won't work

The futile trip to Mexico seems awful

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Well, I see what you mean, although I would say it's possible that's not as bad as straight up giving you a method that won't work

The futile trip to Mexico seems awful

A gentle reminder....

if you desire to discuss this further or to open a debate, I respectfully ask that you create a new thread. I do not wish to see this thread derailed as it has a very clear and specific purpose

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Propranolol decreases tachycardia and improves symptoms in the Postural Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS): Less is More

Postural Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) induces disabling chronic orthostatic intolerance with an excessive increase in heart rate (HR) upon standing. Beta-blockade is an appealing treatment approach, but there are conflicting preliminary reports. We tested ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

@GrizzlyGrapefruit gave me this resource. I wanted to take propanolol to reduce or prevent tachycardia as I really dislike it and it's one of the most common SN symptoms. But I haven't seen anywhere on SS when it's best to take propanolol in the method, only that it can be added. (This is not the same as taking a high dose of propanolol at the time of SN ingestion for potentiation as suggested by Nitschke.)

@GrizzlyGrapefruit commented it takes 1-4 hours for propanolol to reach its potential, and that a lower rather than higher dose is recommended, as per this study, for supine tachycardia. So I'm adding it to my method, 20 mg at the start of my 4-hour fast, 20 mg two hours in.

I will still be taking 1-2 g propanolol with the SN, but did not think it would have time to mitigate the tachycardia, and in fact propanolol OD can cause tachycardia, so it's my hope that the earlier low dose may help to mitigate this. I do not experience calming with a low dose of propanolol, so no bonus effect there.

 

[Daniela]

I will still be taking 1-2 g propanolol with the SN

I wish I could imitate you, but 1-2 g is just so many damn pills.

I would have to take them one by one as they don't dissolve in water

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I have added a propanolol and amlopidine OD to my method. Amlopidine is a calcium channel blocker that, when combined with proplanolol, increases the blood pressure-lowering effects of propanolol (see this thread about propanolol OD), both of which potentiate that same effect of SN. I now have 14 g of propanolol and 1 g of amlopidine.

Why combine methods?

First, I received some very weak SN. I have ordered more, but if the new stuff is also weak, then I feel relatively confident that the propanolol/amlopidine combo should be sufficient, but I would prefer to include SN because, according to the anecdotes, if there are no interruptions, it works. I can always use the weak SN, though. Second, the combined effects of the three should significantly increase the potential for more rapid loss of consciousness. Third, the heart-stopping effects of the med combo added to the methemoglobinemia-causing effects of SN will shut down more systems. I want to be unconscious and on the bus as quickly as possible, with the smallest amount of suffering possible. The diazepam should make unconsciousness happen even more rapidly. Fourth, in the highly unlikely event I am discovered and rescued in time, more unidentified meds and more affected systems will make it harder for a medical team to resuscitate me.

My sole concern is vomiting. I'm willing to risk it.

If I survive, which I clearly intend not to, the meds combo is easily replaceable, both are available OTC in the country where I live and are ridiculously cheap.

A bonus: propanolol is more quickly absorbed with food, so I'm going to eat a little before I take the meds/SN combo. I have no concern that the SN won't work if I don't fast, it will only slow its absorption, and if I'm fortunate, I won't experience symptoms like stomach burning because I'm already unconscious or because of the stomach contents.

Regimen

Hour 00 --

Begin fast
20 mg proplanolol

Hour 02 --

20 mg propanolol

Hour 03:15 --

Prepare meds mixture to dissolve pills
50 ml water
14 g propanolol
1 g amlopidine
Take
800 mg ibuprofen
160 mg diazepam

Hour 03:30 --

Take
40 mg meto
4 tbsp. magnesium hydroxide
Prepare SN mix x 2 (one for backup)
25 ml water
25 g SN

At first signs of sleepiness (hour 03:50-04:15) --

Eat a few bites of a favorite food (personal)
Drink meds mixture
Drink SN mixture



If I accidentally fall asleep from the diazepam, I will follow the regimen again the next night without diazepam and prepare a new SN mixture.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Mental Preparation


From the article "Seneca and the Stoic View of Suicide" by William Englert

"The Stoics held that it was permissible, perhaps even the duty, of a person who was being forced to perform an immoral or shameful act to commit suicide to avoid having to do it...[In the analogy] where life is a drinking-party, and one of the five possible reasons listed for leaving a drinking-party, the arrival of abusive party-goers, is used to illustrate a similar occasion for leaving life: when tyrants try to force a person to do or say shameful things."
- Englert

"As Seneca tells us, the wise man, the ultimate standard of conduct, should not flee life, but exit it."
- Englert

"[Seneca] praises people who commit suicide to preserve their dignitas [sense of self] and consistency of character."
-Englert

"[D]ie as one ought: 'virtuously, sensibly, and courageously.'"
- Seneca


From the book The Practicing Stoic by Ward Farnsworth

"Marcus Aurelius's view of humanity gave him a reason not to fear death: the human race, seen accurately, is not the sort of company one should be too sorry to leave behind."
- Farnsworth

"We need to be warned and strengthened in both directions – not to love or to hate life overmuch. Even when reason advises us to make an end of it, the impulse is not to be adopted without reflection or at headlong speed. The brave and wise man should not flee from life but withdraw from it."
- Seneca

"Here are the words of the law on this subject: If chance delivers some great misfortune that you cannot remedy, a haven is always nearby. You can swim away from your body as you would from a leaking boat."
- Montaigne

"[A] life is not incomplete if it is honorable. Wherever you leave off, provided you leave off nobly, your life is a whole."
- Seneca

"You ask what the finest life span would be? To live until you reach wisdom. The one who gets there has arrived, not at the farthest goal, but at the most important. That man, indeed, may boldly congratulate himself, and give thanks to the gods – and to himself along with them – and count in his reckoning with the universe the fact that he has lived. His account will be in credit: he has given it back a better life than he received."
- Seneca

 

[enjolras]

Wanted to thank you for sharing your synthetized opinion from personal research about SN. At the beginning, I was decided to follow Nitschke's recipe (first reflex of easiness) because the timeline looked more compact / less entangled than Stan's for the same result : Meto + Tagamet, 40mins later SN + Propranolol
Then, you made me think twice, convinced about possible upgrades / tweakings, on the anti-anxiety side mostly (sequencing Valium and Propranolol bits in advance)
From my own reading, it does not seem like one needs to be afraid of Propranolol OD, less so than Dilantin with N. If only I did not have asthma, I would not be hesitant. W/ SN, my main fear is about triggering shortness of breath symptoms, which I despise. Wouldn't want to leave gasping for air, even though it's an uncommon report, that is not proven to be felt consciously.
I will still trial Propranolol at the lowest doses (5mg increasing onwards 20mg), to see how I tolerate it

Regarding vomitting, I know I personally can handle horrid tastes without a problem. However, I'm able to trigger gag reflexes alone from simply being overwhelmed by emotions, that is mostly fear and sadness, from the sole thought of CTBing (and that only). Even on an empty stomach, it can be pulled out against my will. Even if I'm ready by all means since a long time with logical reasons, I know my departure will be accompagnied with regrets and crying, because I'll think last about the people's I've loved and fond memories. In the end, your mental preparation recommandation comes in handy. Need to teach myself about letting go of some pressure. I hadn't thought of putting some efforts into it repeatidly in advance.