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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
7,197
Before I proceed with this thread and article, I wanted to put out some disclaimers to prevent any misunderstanding and also for those who read it to focus on what the main point.

Disclaimer: Even though the title of this thread has the word 'recovery' in them, it is NOT a recovery thread nor indicative of wanting or seeking recovery. It is more about the difference between people who had recovered due to circumstances or external influences pushing them versus their own volition. Ultimately, this thread and article is exploring the topic of those who recovered versus being trapped and forced to recover, as well as the notion of real choice. Additionally, while some points mentioned in this thread may be preaching to the choir here on SaSu, it is more focused on the ethics, logic, and personal liberty regarding actual recovery versus forced into it. While I suppose this could belong in a politics and philosophy section, it is about CTB and bodily autonomy.

With that said, here is the topic. So throughout most of my existence and throughout my time, especially on SaSu, but even outside of SaSu (other forums, platforms, or even IRL), I've seen people who wanted to CTB, but later changed their mind. It's true that there are people who go on towards 'recovery' by their own volition or choice, but then there are also people who end up what looks on the outside to the outsider observer as 'recovery' but really they are in just as miserable shape as they are. If they had been given a choice later on perhaps they may have decided to choose death voluntarily still, but given enough time, be it months, years, or so, they become so accustomed to their 'forced' sentience and life itself that they continue to live, or end up just liking living (which of course appeases the pro-lifers and the mainstream of society). The problem ultimately becomes whether or not the person who was forced continuation of sentience really wanted to live or did they make a false choice?

The Stockholm Syndrome analogy
Another perspective here is that perhaps the people who wanted to CTB and end one's own suffering were perhaps put into a situation where they are not able to escape, and naturally ended up coping with the situation even against their will. While it is not the classic case of "Stockholm Syndrome", more commonly seen through victims of crime, there are similarities. The term "Stockholm Syndrome" refers to the victim of captivity (in this context, the person being trapped, unable to escape actual suffering while in the state of sentience (life) but instead becomes tolerant of their circumstances, let alone even (falsely) enjoying it). In the case of 'forced' sentience, however, it is where sentience holders, aka the gatekeepers and captors (in this case, the collective majority of society, masses and those who don't agree with pro-choice stance or actual true bodily autonomy when it comes to CTB) are the ones who are either actively and continuously (or even passively) keeping people trapped in suffering either by deprivation of reliable (not necessarily peaceful) means of exiting, actively and continuously impinging on their liberties through institutions (including forced detainment, detentions, lockups, etc.), and even psychological manipulation (gaslighting, guilt-trips, shaming tactics, etc.). However, since the victim doesn't have a reliable means of opportunity (either method, time, opportunity) to reliably (let alone peacefully) on one's own terms, the eventually come to either tolerate or enjoy life (perhaps they are feigning it too but just unspoken), which makes them make a false choice.

So in conclusion, I wrote this article mainly since it was an interesting observation that I had and pondered about whether or not the people who actually continued to live really wanted to live (actual recovery, not just being trapped or forced into recovery through tolerance of circumstances), or if they were trapped and then falsely chose to really live. Even if suppose one were choosing recovery (due to lack of means of escaping), maybe it doesn't necessarily mean nor indicate that they enjoy life and wanted to choose it perhaps? It only merely meant that their choice of CTB was heavily restricted that it was not feasible or realistic (or possible but very high chance of failure and possibly permanent damage, making things much worse for said individual(s)) and thus they are only left with one choice, the default choice to persist (not because they wanted to but because they were forced to, physically and perhaps even mentally through pressure, coercion, duress, etc.). What are your thoughts on this?
 
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EternalHunger

EternalHunger

Starved & Lonely
Sep 3, 2025
74
This was actually a genuinely interesting read, I agree on the most part that society actively pushes those with suicidal intent into eventually masking it themselves rather than genuinely helping them, with anti-depressants being the most literal case of that masking; when we look at meta-studies of national medical organisations such as this article by NHS/BJGP of all patients in the UK it's typical for half of all 'recovered' patients to relapse to subsequently WORSE states than before the treatment, with it increasing to 70% by the second 'episode', 90% by the next and so on. This is also only with the people who actively talk about their relapse, as well as excluding those who might've suppressed it all without a 'major' relapse but never truly been healed in any way.

The issue is that most means of 'treatment' that are available to depression actively aim to 'supress' suicidal intent rather than help an individual take action in themselves to either uproot the original cause figuratively or literally, not to say there aren't resources available for that sort of thing but it typically requires a genuinely competent therapist who can easily connect/understand you (ironically, most therapists are so used to people with relatively better off mental states that it's very hard to find this) and even then it won't work for everyone. So, instead mental health institutes rely on psychiatrists to provide medication like anti-depressants as a long-term solution for patients they should've just hand to a better institution/professionals, despite acknowledging that they can actively make the patient more susceptible to anxiety, seizures, mood disorders and further depression if taken too often and eventually making the patient heavily rely on it to even function; inherently it is a medication that should be used sparsely as it can work extremely well for the short term ALONGSIDE the right therapy but greed takes over many professionals over ethics. Same issue with other 'alternative' treatments.

There's also the issue that a lot of the problems which lead to suicidal intent is inherently hard to downright impossible to '''fix''' in any meaningful way, which makes these treatments somewhat useless when we just hop right back into the situations that were part of the reason we had to go in the first place; it is especially difficult with physical conditions and innate mental disorders which actively stunts your everyday life, there are people who can find meaning in that sort of life but to believe that everyone is able to do so is exception fallacy built on utter ignorance of someone's circumstances, inherent differences, context and so many other things that come into play; even when you take all that into account, one must acknowledge there will always be outliers which shouldn't be how you build the rule, no-one deserves to be forced to live a life of constant suffering far below what's even ethical or expected out of a human just to fit within societal norms.
More often then not, when the individual(like how I was after years of child therapy+regular therapy for depression and autism) realises nothing substantially changed in this case even after all of that treatment, it is far far more devastating to one's psyche than having never gone through the process in the first place; hence relapsing.

There's so many other issues which come into play which you also briefly touched on in your post but I believe these two can be the biggest issues that can make recovery go from actually recovering to just suppression.

In such an environment, it isn't surprising why people eventually force a false recovery without even realising most of the time.
 
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Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
12,857
I'm not sure really. So, the reasoning being that the majority of depressed people are default suicidal but, just pretending not to be? I'm not sure that's accurate really. Even those who are depressed, may not actually be suicidal. But then, it's so hard to tell- given that it's such a taboo thing to confess to/ talk about.

As for pretend recovery- again, I'm not too sure. I have friends who put on a better act than me but I think we all know it's a forced optimism- even them. Is it even 'recovery'? I suspect for a lot, it's more like desperately trying to tread water so that their situation doesn't get any worse!

I suppose sometimes I wonder why people bother with things like therapy, if they aren't actually committed to recovery. But then, I think it's more nuanced than that. It may simply be that for whatever reason, they can't CTB now. Maybe things like therapy can still give us ways of getting through our time here currently.

We may also have this faint hope of a miracle. That something someone says will suddenly make things click and problems disappear. I imagine lots of people have delved into things like meditation, in the hopes they will be able to find peace and a magical better, enlightened way of living.

Maybe that's more the hopes of a quick fix though. I think many of us have hoped there would be some key to living that made everything easier. I imagine that's why we go looking for things like religion, spirituality, philosophy- in the hopes the secret will be there.

I'm not sure that has much to do with 'real' recovery though. Definitely in my case, I hoped it would be a quick fix! I probably didn't think too carefully about what real recovery might entail.

I do tend to believe however that 'recovery' is far more likely when there is a genuine desire for it. Because it's tough- I'm sure. With multiple curved balls and set backs. And, all the while, we have to be mindful not to start doing things we find easier but ultimately, will likely saboutage our efforts. I think you have to really want it to put yourself through that (shit). The actual amount of people who are suicidal though- I tend to think it's probably a minority still but then, who knows?

As for people pretending to be something they're not or, not even being aware of what they want. Again, I'm not sure really. It's a bit insulting to assume all those people are too stupid to know their own emotions! Given that we spend the most amount of time with ourselves, my guess is- most people do introspect to some degree. At least as to whether they are happy or sad. Whether they openly express it though, is something else.

Who even feels free to do that? Would you appear so different to them in a social setting say? So, why would they appear that way to us? I imagine the majority of us are maintaing some level of facade. But yeah- I suppose that could include a kind of 'false' recovery or a staged normality.

There again, it could be genuine. They may not be all that happy with their lives and, pained to put on a brave, optimistic face. But, they may still hold out hope for life in the long- term. I don't really relate to the whole: This is the proper, right way to perceive life- it's shit. Surely, it's far more subjective than that. And built on so many factors.

How much potential does the person have to get the things they want? Do they still want things? What's their support system like? How much of life do they still value? People aren't wrong in the feeling that this or that thing is enough to make life worthwhile. Maybe difficult still but, worthwhile for them.

I just find it fascinating really. We hate it when they call us delluded. That our perspective on life is abnormally skewed. But, this is really just the polar opposite of that. That they are in fact lieing to themselves that things are better than they are. I mean- they could be, of course but, maybe they also know that themselves. That maybe things are shit now but, they're trying to look on the positive, still doing positive things, in the hopes it will actually work out ok in the end. It's hard to know really for sure.
 
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-Link-

Member
Aug 25, 2018
691
Recovery is largely a self-defined concept and will occur on a wide spectrum. If someone is getting along, struggling but surviving day-to-day in life, and they consider themselves to be in recovery, it seems problematic to suggest or imply that their recovery is "false" or "forced".

"Recovery" as a philosophical item seems a bit misplaced, particularly on a suicide forum, and a distraction from some of the issues being raised here which are of significant importance -- the shortcomings of mental healthcare systems, for instance, or that the preferable approach to addressing suicidality is to prevent it from developing in the first place.

This reads as a roundabout argument in favour of medical assistance in dying -- or at least one's right to die without external influence or resistance. In addressing this or other complex issues alluded to here, I think it's important to do so in a way that doesn't jeopardize those tiny threads of positivity or hope which some people are holding onto. The "R" word, here, is much more than a matter of semantics.
 
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