Discussion The cousins of N

[Superdeterminist]

N (pentobarbital) is often discussed here as more or less 'the gold standard of ctb'. But what about the other barbiturates, namely secobarbital and phenobarbital? Are these two not also perfectly good candidates to ctb with, or do they lack something that N has? Does anyone know more about these other barbiturates and their relative potency compared to N? It seems difficult to find this kind of information online.​

 

[fruit-loops]

There are good cousins and bad cousins..
As far as I know secobarbital can be a good substitute but not the phenobarbital that have a different mechanism of action. They always advice to not confuse pentobarbital with phenobarbital despite the names similarity

 

[Jumping_realms]

Yeah, Phenobarbital is absolute trash as a Barb, even recreational. I suppose it could kill someone if enough was taken, but it doesn't feel like it when abusing it.

Tuinal or Seco would be 2 substitutes I know of, but I'm not sure you can really get them. People claim to have them on the DW. @forevernonescaped would definitely know what is still produced and would be a substitute.

 

[BobMorane]

Availability is the big difference between Pentobarbital sodium and Seconal. That and one more carbon in the molecular formula.

 

[peacefulhorizons]

Pentobarbital and secobarbital are both short-acting barbiturates that are sister drugs to each other and are both used at assisted-suicide clinics (Canadian clinics are probably the biggest user of secobarbital at the moment). The dosing is equivalent and the effects are basically identical. Secobarbital is however preferred by many recreational barbiturate users (the few that are left lol) to pentobarbital due to its reportedly more euphoric effects but that's not a big deal for our uses lol. However, secobarbital was found to have a faster time to unconsciousness and death (Washington state's Death with Dignity Act 2010 data) compared to pentobarbital (Washington state's Death with Dignity Act 2013 data) but in no way significant imo (could be that some years have people more ill and closer to death). But both are excellent and research backed for ctb. However, secobarbital is basically impossible to acquire. The only way I've seen barbiturate enthusiasts acquire it is through acquiring the old vintage pharma stuff in small quantities. Haven't seen anyone acquire enough to ctb before. So that's why pentobarbital is the gold standard here as it's basically the same and it is somewhat easy to acquire it through buying it in veterinary form. More clinics are using pentobarbital compared to secobarbital anyway (more data as well).

Phenobarbital is a long-acting barbiturate and has quite a reputation for being pretty much garbage (in effect) lol. It's lethal but takes days minimum to kill and takes a while to induce unconsciousness. People going this route like to add benzos for potentiation and to make the time to unconsciousness faster. Not as reliable as a method as pentobarbital and secobarbital but it works if you have pretty much a week alone to yourself and dose it correctly. Better than something like SN imo.