Discussion Suicide gestures - any advice

[MEoDP]

Sometimes,the goal of a suicide act is to give the people around you a rude awakening,rather than truly aiming for death. For example,think of parents who absolutely refuses to listen to the needs of their children. (Like keep on forcing and pressuring them to do well in school,even if its not in their heart of hearts,and the only way to finally make them listen is a suicide attempt.)

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/drug-poisoning/suicidal-gestures

This question is more theoretical in nature,I'm aware that all sorts of things could go wrong,but what do you guys think the best method to choose if one were set out to accomplish this?

 

[Justanotherconsumer]

Take like 10 aspirin then flush the rest of the bottle, leave bottle next to you as your "collapsed" on the floor.

 

[MEoDP]

Take like 10 aspirin then flush the rest of the bottle, leave bottle next to you as your "collapsed" on the floor.

Is there any risk whatsoever of permanent damage or just guaranteed temporary pain and discomfort?

 

[whatmattersmost]

So somebody is choosing suicide over attending School because there Parents are being Pushy/Forcing/Pressuring. . .
If I could Go back in time I wish I would've Finished School, I dropped out because My parents didn't care.
Anyways. .
You shouldn't have to make attempt just Vocalize to them that they are making You Suicidal.

 

[Justanotherconsumer]

Is there any risk whatsoever of permanent damage or just guaranteed temporary pain and discomfort?

There wont be any pain or perm damage, but hospital drinking charcoal.

 

[whatmattersmost]

Do Not "Attempt Suicide".

 

[MEoDP]

So somebody is choosing suicide over attending School because there Parents are being Pushy/Forcing/Pressuring. . .
If I could Go back in time I wish I would've Finished School, I dropped out because My parents didn't care.
Anyways. .
You shouldn't have to make attempt just Vocalize to them that they are making You Suicidal.

Its an example,there could be other reasons. Again,this is largely a theoretical thread.

BTW I did indeed to that advice in the last paragraph you made when I was studying in a college course I had absolutely no business being in. It did seem to work,but I couldn't pass the college course requirement anyway so who knows if that alone would have been enough had that not been a factor.

 

[IronicFail]

Do Not "Attempt Suicide".

This. There are so many issues with these 'cries for help' approaches. A lot of these accidentally succeed. And it actually poses a slew of other issues. You can achieve a similar effect as those other issues and achieve the initial "rude awakening" goal by saying the right thing to a therapist or doctor (e.g., I'm a risk to myself; I've plans and access to materials to carry out the plan + refusing to sign a safety contract).

 

[MEoDP]

This. There are so many issues with these 'cries for help' approaches. A lot of these accidentally succeed. And it actually poses a slew of other issues. You can achieve a similar effect as those other issues and achieve the initial "rude awakening" goal by saying the right thing to a therapist or doctor (e.g., I'm a risk to myself; I've plans and access to materials to carry out the plan + refusing to sign a safety contract).

Hmm...Another might be to call a suicide hotline(One that I absolutely advice for anyone serious about suicide to avoid using) and be 100% honest if they don't end up convincing you,which would force them to call the cops.

 

[MEoDP]

So somebody is choosing suicide over attending School

Just wanted to get back to this,but you're disregarding the fact that school can make somebody's life very miserable.

I speak as someone who currently has to go to college in order to get a degree in a course I absolutely don't care for(and have come to abhor)and would likely end up in a job that I feel the same about because of our fucked up system.

I have no plans of making a suicide gesture however. if I'm to do the deed,I plan to go all the way. I'm just currently not in a position to take any useful action at the moment.

 

[IronicFail]

Hmm...Another might be to call a suicide hotline(One that I absolutely advice for anyone serious about suicide to avoid using) and be 100% honest if they don't end up convincing you,which would force them to call the cops.

Depends on the country. While most countries have a Tarasoff/Duty to Inform law, some organisations are exempt. Also some of these services suck at reporting. The reason I say doctor or therapist is if they fail to do anything it's their career. But the phone line approach usually could work.

 

[whatmattersmost]

Don't make a Permanent decision over temporary feelings(Sounds Cliche)

This. There are so many issues with these 'cries for help' approaches. A lot of these accidentally succeed. And it actually poses a slew of other issues. You can achieve a similar effect as those other issues and achieve the initial "rude awakening" goal by saying the right thing to a therapist or doctor (e.g., I'm a risk to myself; I've plans and access to materials to carry out the plan + refusing to sign a safety contract).

What do I know, I'm Not a Doctor.
I'm Not making light of the person's situation.
But Damnnn, I understand People trying to Help out but don't mess up by telling some kid for all we know a permanent decision to a temporary problem(Cliche saying I know)or so help Me i will murder You before I go.
I feel bad that somebody's parents could bring them to that point over Fucking school.

 

[MEoDP]

Don't make a Permanent decision over temporary feelings(Sounds Cliche)

What do I know, I'm Not a Doctor.
I'm Not making light of the person's situation.
But Damnnn, I understand People trying to Help out but don't mess up by telling some kid for all we know a permanent decision to a temporary problem(Cliche saying I know)or so help Me i will murder You before I go.
I feel bad that somebody's parents could bring them to that point over Fucking school.

Just to be clear,I'm not a child. I'm a 23 year old college student,who is completely unsure of a happy future. even if by some miracle I manage to finish college,I could end up with a wage-slaving job(like being a teacher)that I don't like but forced to do.

Don't make a Permanent decision over temporary feelings

Are you pro-life? This is indeed a cliche,one that is despised on this forum,and rightfully so. A counter-argument I love to use:
Life is designed in a way that no matter what position you're in,you will ALWAYS have to deal with problems over the long term. you will never live a problem-free life. The only way to become truly problem free is to cease to exist.

 

[whatmattersmost]

Just to be clear,I'm not a child. I'm a 23 year old college student,who is completely unsure of a happy future. even if by some miracle I manage to finish college,I could end up with a wage-slaving job(like being a teacher)that I don't like but forced to do.


Are you pro-life? This is indeed a cliche,one that is despised on this forum,and rightfully so. A counter-argument I love to use:
Life is designed in a way that no matter what position you're in,you will ALWAYS have to deal with problems over the long term. you will never live a problem-free life. The only way to become truly problem free is to cease to exist.

Cool.
Kill Yourself then.
I thought You were like a lil kid on His/Her parents Computer, I was like Fuck No.
But since Your a 23yr old grown adult you can go jump out a window ;)

 

[IronicFail]

Don't make a Permanent decision over temporary feelings(Sounds Cliche)

What do I know, I'm Not a Doctor.
I'm Not making light of the person's situation.
But Damnnn, I understand People trying to Help out but don't mess up by telling some kid for all we know a permanent decision to a temporary problem(Cliche saying I know)or so help Me i will murder You before I go.
I feel bad that somebody's parents could bring them to that point over Fucking school.

I get your point. I do. But my view of it is, as a health professional, know what the options are. Though I think I wasn't clear. We're saying the same thing.

Person comes in here saying they want to know how to do the "cry for help". This approach is dangerous because it can become an accidental suicide. If it works as planned though, the person will be held for observation and gets the "rude awakening" and any potentially dangerous or life b long medical issues as an outcome.

Alternatively, the person can tell a doctor they plan to and have means to CTB. If they bring refuse a safety contract, they will be held for observations and still very the "rude awakening" minus the potential health risks.

Of course, I don't believe either approach is best. I think forcing the issue in another way may work better but requires knowing the people involved very well.

 

[MEoDP]

Cool.
Kill Yourself then.
I thought You were like a lil kid on His/Her parents Computer, I was like Fuck No.
But since Your a 23yr old grown adult you can go jump out a window ;)

Unfortunately,my house isn't tall enough to guarantee death. I'm more likely to end up a cripple(or a vegetable)if I try.

I currently lack the resources to get the job done,but hopefully I'll eventually have them at my disposal.

Do you plan to go soon yourself?

 

[whatmattersmost]

Just to be clear,I'm not a child. I'm a 23 year old college student,who is completely unsure of a happy future. even if by some miracle I manage to finish college,I could end up with a wage-slaving job(like being a teacher)that I don't like but forced to do.


Are you pro-life? This is indeed a cliche,one that is despised on this forum,and rightfully so. A counter-argument I love to use:
Life is designed in a way that no matter what position you're in,you will ALWAYS have to deal with problems over the long term. you will never live a problem-free life. The only way to become truly problem free is to cease to exist.

Honestly, I don't even know what Pro-life means.
So you have some problems,tell me your problems, we already know school is one of them, Oooooohhh Yeah and Parents & Not wanting a minimum wage Job?
You can Vent to Me I have nowhere to go.

 

[whatmattersmost]

I get your point. I do. But my view of it is, as a health professional, know what the options are. Though I think I wasn't clear. We're saying the same thing.

Person comes in here saying they want to know how to do the "cry for help". This approach is dangerous because it can become an accidental suicide. If it works as planned though, the person will be held for observation and gets the "rude awakening" and any potentially dangerous or life b long medical issues as an outcome.

Alternatively, the person can tell a doctor they plan to and have means to CTB. If they bring refuse a safety contract, they will be held for observations and still very the "rude awakening" minus the potential health risks.

Of course, I don't believe either approach is best. I think forcing the issue in another way may work better but requires knowing the people involved very well.

I agree.
Accept the Forcing the issue part(unless it's a kid)
I'm Not a Health Professional & I'm Not on Here to save anybody's Life Unfortunately.

 

[whatmattersmost]

Unfortunately,my house isn't tall enough to guarantee death. I'm more likely to end up a cripple(or a vegetable)if I try.

I currently lack the resources to get the job done,but hopefully I'll eventually have them at my disposal.

Do you plan to go soon yourself?

I Plan to GO (CTB)this Weekend.

 

[IronicFail]

I agree.
Accept the Forcing the issue part(unless it's a kid)
I'm Not a Health Professional & I'm Not on Here to save anybody's Life Unfortunately.

Yeah, I read the initial post as a teenager posting. I didn't see the part about being an adult until later. I agree completely with you.

 

[whatmattersmost]

Yeah, I read the initial post as a teenager posting. I didn't see the part about being an adult until later. I agree completely with you.

So did I.
Thankfully it wasn't.

 

[IronicFail]

So did I.
Thankfully it wasn't.

True. Off topic but are you okay with DMs about your plans? (I kind of uncertain of what to expect in the day's leading up to when I CTB and haven't seen much on it).

 

[SamK]

it definitely could turn into an accidental death ./ misadventure/ accidental suicide so I would say .. personally.. if someone is wanting to gesture i wouldn't advise swallowing any pills

I mean yeah.. there are some that are not very likely to cause damage. Example: much safer to OD on vitamins than it would be a packet of tylenol.
I still don't advise it though..

When making a gesture never try
Hanging (once you have passed out, if you're not found in time you are a gonner.... lots of people have gestured this way and accidentally died (especially young kids)

jumping (I know that's obvious but some might from a lower height)
Trains (again that seems obvious but even being on the tracks, whether you mean to be hit or not is very risky)

Overdosing (depends on what you take and how many.10 aspirin probably wouldn't kill you but you can still overdose on the sacilyate in them and 1) be quite ill, depending on your body/weight/nutritional status and 2) risk ulcers in the stomach/internal bleeding/generally be feeling crap and throwing up. Tylenol .. same thing.. some people can damage their liver just by taking 10. It's not common, but anything over 8 pills in 24 hours has potential to damage it. (Especially if you have a low weight, take them with alcohol, dont eat very much , have liver issues or are a heavy drinker)
See what i mean, it's still risky for harm/permanent harm - even if it wont kill you. It's not worth it for a gesture


I think even threatening suicide is enough for a gesture. I know again.. that sounds bad and might be seen as manipulative but i'd much rather my kid shouted at me they felt like killing themselves than kept it to themselves and tell me a week later they took a massive OD.

I made gestures as a teenager with Paracetamol. i was in care- I was fed up - I didn't want to die. But nobody told me 72 paracetamol was probably going to kill me. I was 14 and it wasn't until they mentioned Kings College Liver Unit that I realized I could have died and never made another suicide gesture again.. It scared the crap out of me. So steer clear of those above and just keep in mind if you are going to gesture some meds can still damage or even kill you in low doses. It could go wrong. Hanging is a huge nono , never do that as a gesture. Once you have lost enough oxygen to your brain, your limbs go weak. Even if you are awake, you'll feel like you cant stand up/ move your arms to take the noose off, even if you had a change of heart. It would just be a matter of time before you lost consciousness and 10 minutes later you're a gonner.

Makes me so sad when people die from gestures/accidentally by doing any of the above :(

I would recommend someone calls a helpline/talks to a teacher. I only agree with suicide as an absolute must- way out for people who have been suffering unbearable pain for wayyyyy too long. Not for a short term crisis, if you are considering it for bullying at school or over falling out with a friend it's not worth it. I sitll believe in trying everything you can before you CTB. I think a lot of us here have exhausted all options and that's why we are at where we are.


Personally Eli-Lilly may as well hire me as a rep, i've tried every psych drug going and they've all failed to help me. Met with more psychologists and counsellors than I can count on both hands. I've tried everything I could to make life better.. it took a long time, but I made the decision to CTB knowing i'd tried everything. So if it's something like that get yourself some help and dont feel like you need to gesture. If you are going to gesture nobody can stop you just try be safe as possible <3

 

[IronicFail]

it definitely could turn into an accidental death ./ misadventure/ accidental suicide so I would say .. personally.. if someone is wanting to gesture i wouldn't advise swallowing any pills

I mean yeah.. there are some that are not very likely to cause damage. Example: much safer to OD on vitamins than it would be a packet of tylenol.
I still don't advise it though..

When making a gesture never try
Hanging (once you have passed out, if you're not found in time you are a gonner.... lots of people have gestured this way and accidentally died (especially young kids)

jumping (I know that's obvious but some might from a lower height)
Trains (again that seems obvious but even being on the tracks, whether you mean to be hit or not is very risky)

Overdosing (depends on what you take and how many.10 aspirin probably wouldn't kill you but you can still overdose on the sacilyate in them and 1) be quite ill, depending on your body/weight/nutritional status and 2) risk ulcers in the stomach/internal bleeding/generally be feeling crap and throwing up. Tylenol .. same thing.. some people can damage their liver just by taking 10. It's not common, but anything over 8 pills in 24 hours has potential to damage it. (Especially if you have a low weight, take them with alcohol, dont eat very much , have liver issues or are a heavy drinker)
See what i mean, it's still risky for harm/permanent harm - even if it wont kill you. It's not worth it for a gesture


I think even threatening suicide is enough for a gesture. I know again.. that sounds bad and might be seen as manipulative but i'd much rather my kid shouted at me they felt like killing themselves than kept it to themselves and tell me a week later they took a massive OD.

I made gestures as a teenager with Paracetamol. i was in care- I was fed up - I didn't want to die. But nobody told me 72 paracetamol was probably going to kill me. I was 14 and it wasn't until they mentioned Kings College Liver Unit that I realized I could have died and never made another suicide gesture again.. It scared the crap out of me. So steer clear of those above and just keep in mind if you are going to gesture some meds can still damage or even kill you in low doses. It could go wrong. Hanging is a huge nono , never do that as a gesture. Once you have lost enough oxygen to your brain, your limbs go weak. Even if you are awake, you'll feel like you cant stand up/ move your arms to take the noose off, even if you had a change of heart. It would just be a matter of time before you lost consciousness and 10 minutes later you're a gonner.

Makes me so sad when people die from gestures/accidentally by doing any of the above :(

I would recommend someone calls a helpline/talks to a teacher. I only agree with suicide as an absolute must- way out for people who have been suffering unbearable pain for wayyyyy too long. Not for a short term crisis, if you are considering it for bullying at school or over falling out with a friend it's not worth it. I sitll believe in trying everything you can before you CTB. I think a lot of us here have exhausted all options and that's why we are at where we are.


Personally Eli-Lilly may as well hire me as a rep, i've tried every psych drug going and they've all failed to help me. Met with more psychologists and counsellors than I can count on both hands. I've tried everything I could to make life better.. it took a long time, but I made the decision to CTB knowing i'd tried everything. So if it's something like that get yourself some help and dont feel like you need to gesture. If you are going to gesture nobody can stop you just try be safe as possible <3

Can I like this a several times? This is exactly the issue I was getting at (but jealous it's better written than mine :p)

 

[MEoDP]

Honestly, I don't even know what Pro-life means.

Pro-life means people who value life over a person's choice/autonomy. Most commonly,it refers to people who are against abortion.

In our case however,its people who are against the right to die. The people that have necessitated the birth of this website/forum.

So you have some problems,tell me your problems, we already know school is one of them, Oooooohhh Yeah and Parents & Not wanting a minimum wage Job?

Minimum Wage job that forces you to do stuff you'd rather not do at best and actively hate at worst for nearly your entire day(9-5)and for the rest of your life. I might be able to talk my mom into helping me start a business so I can avoid such a fate,but there's no guarantee.

and yeah,I unfortunately don't have the most understanding parents.(or dare I say it,they aren't the most insightful either. otherwise,they would have figured a way for me to get around the problem. Plenty of people have managed to achieve reasonably happy lives without college or traditional education,I unfortunately wasn't born in a circumstance where that is possible for me.)
School and they are probably the primary reason for my suffering,and I unfortunately lack the resources/skills to survive trying to run away.

You can Vent to Me I have nowhere to go.

That is sadly the only power I have at the moment. May I ask why you plan to do yourself in if you don't mind?

 

[whatmattersmost]

True. Off topic but are you okay with DMs about your plans? (I kind of uncertain of what to expect in the day's leading up to when I CTB and haven't seen much on it).

Is the DM the same as the PM
Private message?
Go ahead.

 

[hunter_lewis]

Sometimes,the goal of a suicide act is to give the people around you a rude awakening,rather than truly aiming for death. For example,think of parents who absolutely refuses to listen to the needs of their children. (Like keep on forcing and pressuring them to do well in school,even if its not in their heart of hearts,and the only way to finally make them listen is a suicide attempt.)

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/drug-poisoning/suicidal-gestures

This question is more theoretical in nature,I'm aware that all sorts of things could go wrong,but what do you guys think the best method to choose if one were set out to accomplish this?

That kind of behavior is childish and ruins it for the people that really want to die because people assume stuff like 'It's a cry for help', 'They don't want to die', 'Life is worth living and suicide gestures show so' and all kinds of bullshit. Because of this, people also assume that wanting to kill yourself is something emo teenagers do and it is labelled as cowardice, weakness and having the inability to cope with life's problems which are not true for many ctb-ers.
If you are having a problem with someone, the best thing to do is not to gulp a bottle of aspirin and pass out, but talk. God thankfully gave you a mouth and the power of speech-use it! You can tell them that you are thinking of ctb because you are so miserable and you will get help and support!

 

[IronicFail]

Is the DM the same as the PM
Private message?
Go ahead.

Yeah. Sorry I'm actually use to saying PM but I thought I saw someone say DM here.

Edit: how do I pm here?

 

[SamK]

Can I like this a several times? This is exactly the issue I was getting at (but jealous it's better written than mine :p)

You made a good point as well <3 it does happen, like you say

 

[whatmattersmost]

Pro-life means people who value life over a person's choice/autonomy. Most commonly,it refers to people who are against abortion.

In our case however,its people who are against the right to die. The people that have necessitated the birth of this website/forum.


Minimum Wage job that forces you to do stuff you'd rather not do at best and actively hate at worst for nearly your entire day(9-5)and for the rest of your life. I might be able to talk my mom into helping me start a business so I can avoid such a fate,but there's no guarantee.

and yeah,I unfortunately don't have the most understanding parents.(or dare I say it,they aren't the most insightful either. otherwise,they would have figured a way for me to get around the problem. Plenty of people have managed to achieve reasonably happy lives without college or traditional education,I unfortunately wasn't born in a circumstance where that is possible for me.)
School and they are probably the primary reason for my suffering,and I unfortunately lack the resources/skills to survive trying to run away.


That is sadly the only power I have at the moment. May I ask why you plan to do yourself in if you don't mind?

Well it's Me Your FATHER.
Just Playing.
What kind of business would You start?
I owned a business,it wasn't to bad.
I was High the entire time though.
Sound's like You might have some Goals that are in Your Reach.