Resource Stability of SN and N

[bed]

I'd like to preface this to hopefully help people not make rash decisions due to the fear that their suicide method will go "bad" and they feel forced to take it before they truly want to. Freedom of choice means everything.

There is a lot of misconception on here about how long both of these chemicals last before they are no longer useable. both SN and N are highly stable compounds in general when stored in a cool, dry, dark environment and unopened the change in potency will diminish very slowly over time. Even when stored in "unstable" conditions, they both will last for a very long time and the loss of potency is negligible. Almost all chemicals are good past their expiration date, an expiration date is not what you may think, " Since a law was passed in 1979, drug manufacturers are required to stamp an expiration date on their products. This is the date at which the manufacturer can still guarantee the full potency and safety of the drug." [1] most drugs will last for decades past expiration, some even for centuries. In the US expired drugs are sold to the military at a discounted price since legally they are no longer acceptable to be sold to the general public.

Stability of Sodium Nitrite

First we will look at SN since it is far more commonly used. "Curing salt has no hard expiration date. If your curing salt is only salt and sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite, it's good forever. Salt itself never goes bad, though yellowing and other discoloration is common. Moisture is a potential problem as it attracts microbes. To prevent such threats, store curing salts in dry, moisture-lock, airtight containers and in a cool dry place, such as your pantry or a dry goods storage closet. Do not refrigerate or freeze curing salt." [2]

Some people are worried that clumping lowers it's efficacy, this is not the case. Here is a picture of pure sodium nitrite [3] and as you can see there is clumping. Small compounds will slowly stick together over time, it is natural and usually has nothing to do with it's efficacy.



Another article showing that is it highly stable
click here

This is a picture of an aquarium test strip that was used on SN that has been sitting in a bottle of tap water with a cap on for almost a year. previously it was believed you needed to use distilled water to insure sodium nitrite would breakdown into sodium nitrate at a much slower rate. considering this SN is still useable in very subpar conditions shows this is not the case as well as shows how stable it is as a compound.



This shows Sodium Nitrite is much more stable than previously thought, even in unpleasant environments.

Stability of Nembutal (pentobarbital)

Onto Nembutal, although it isn't talked about much anymore I still think it would be a good idea to show some information regarding it. In the past there was a lot of fear that it would go bad past the due date, as well as once it was opened you had to drink it in a certain amount of time. I would like to showcase why this is wrong.

I believe these two articles are the most notable and shows N in both it's stable and unstable environment and how it reacts.

Article 1: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26234474/

The biggest takeaway from this is, "We determined that the drug degraded at a maximum of 0.5% per year in our preparation (alkaline water/propylene glycol/ethanol) when stored in the dark at room temperature. "

Article 2: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23982045/

The biggest takeaway from this is, "the pentobarbital sodium in injection appears to be very stable, because the loss in potency was only about 6.2% after it was boiled in water for 1.5 hours."

This isn't really related but I thought I'd share this as well. There is an anecdotal report on Erowid about a person who took N recreationally for an extended period of time. The biggest thing to note is they found expired vet N had a worse taste. "some of the bottles were past a use-by date they seemed to be the most foul to drink and provided an inferior experience". An inferior experience in this context refers to the high and possibly that the potency of N was only slightly diminished.

Pentobarbital - Erowid Exp - 'Nice but Zombie Effects Long Term'

An Experience with Pentobarbital. 'Nice but Zombie Effects Long Term' by Whynot

www.erowid.org

As you can see N is also a highly stable compound and will last long past it's shelf life with very little loss in potency. When the liquid turns cloudy it means nothing in terms of efficacy loss and is just an arbitrary rule in determining it is no longer good for sterile use in a medical setting.


I hope this thread has helped to clear up the air that Sodium Nitrite and Nembutal do not go bad quickly. You do not have to make a rushed decision to ctb because of the fear that either compound will not work. both substances are highly lethal decades past expiration. Exercise caution and make sure ctb is the right choice for you.





[1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/drug-expiration-dates-do-they-mean-anything
[2] https://www.leaf.tv/articles/does-curing-salt-expire/
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nitrite

 

[jujuklam]

This was incredibly useful to read, thank you :)

 

[Thanksforeverything]

This is a picture of an aquarium test strip that was used on SN that has been sitting in a bottle of water with a cap on for almost a year. it is still stable and useable.

Did you store this in the bottle which is shown in the picture? Can I ask if you'd opened it before doing the test when you first received it or did you open it for the first time specifically for the test?

 

[Relic]

bottle which is shown in the picture

If you mean the small clear glass bottle with a black cap, these are for display. But relocating the NaNO2 into a glass container is a step in the right direction. This chemical almost always ships in a plastic container or even in a plastic bag. According to research done for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, around 525 micrograms of water diffuses through HDPE each year.
NaNO2 in a solution should be stored in a refrigerator.

 

[rozeske]

Thank you for preparing this. It will be a helpful reference for a lot. There indeed has been alot of panics over ordering SN and fear of the unexpected feelings it might bring with it.

 

[Thanksforeverything]

NaNO2 in a solution should be stored in a refrigerator.

Do not refrigerate or freeze curing salt

These two are contradictory statements. Mine came in a sealed plastic bottle and I'm considering not opening it until my test kit arrives. I was also considering keeping it in the original container afterward because I don't have a suitable container to store it in atm.

 

[Relic]

These two are contradictory statements.

Different targets. From the moment you dissolve something in water, different chemical processes will begin. To minimize that, only distilled water should be used. Even then, the solution is unstable. As a reagent, the expiration date is usually a year from manufacturing, it might still be good for other purposes.

For the salt, unless you are intending to store it for decades, HDPE or PP are good enough. The weak points are the cap and the seal, depending on the manufacturer.

 

[no-name9859472882]

I appreciate this post I was worried about my n and its expiration

 

[Thanksforeverything]

Different targets. From the moment you dissolve something in water, different chemical processes will begin. To minimize that, only distilled water should be used. Even then, the solution is unstable. As a reagent, the expiration date is usually a year from manufacturing, it might still be good for other purposes.

For the salt, unless you are intending to store it for decades, HDPE or PP are good enough. The weak points are the cap and the seal, depending on the manufacturer.

Whether it's AR grade or considered food grade, they're both salts at the end of the day. Mine's AR grade, but the warranty is up till 2027. I'm confused when you say that reagents are meant to expire within a year because I've found no evidence of such.

And as for the solution, I don't intend on mixing my SN with water until the very last moment. I don't think some moisture seeping in through the plastic is meant to be that big of a deal, particularly considering the bottle's vacuum sealed in plastic and I have it wrapped in a ziplock bag on top.

 

[Decided98]

If you mean the small clear glass bottle with a black cap, these are for display. But relocating the NaNO2 into a glass container is a step in the right direction. This chemical almost always ships in a plastic container or even in a plastic bag. According to research done for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, around 525 micrograms of water diffuses through HDPE each year.
NaNO2 in a solution should be stored in a refrigerator.

SN Is okay to keep in the sealed plastic it came in till the day? Mines IC and I've had it since the end of 2022 it will be okay till this year November? I was really worried about the expiration but it appears it will be viable.

 

[Relic]

I'm confused when you say that reagents are meant to expire within a year because I've found no evidence of such.

Six to twelve months are the common expiration dates of NaNO2 that is sold as a solution. It is rarely marketed in that form, and is sold as a reagent. I have not seen any other purposes for it in this form.

SN Is okay to keep in the sealed plastic it came in till the day? Mines IC and I've had it since the end of 2022 it will be okay till this year November? I was really worried about the expiration but it appears it will be viable.

A well sealed bottle is fine. Those who bought it in a bag should find a bottle for it, if there is a need to store it for a longer period.

 

[Endisclose]

I have it stored in an airtight container. Would it be OK to place silica gel packets in the container for any possible moisture absorption? Could this form a risk in case the container is not completely air tight. I originally thought of adding oxygen absorbers as well, but then saw a video in which the oxygen absorbers had gone completely wet and soggy sometime after being placed in a container that was not entirely air tight(it had a small chip that let the air in).

I bought the silica gel and oxygen absorber packets about 3 months ago but have been deferring placing them in the airtight container along the SN, because I was not absolutely sure if they might be a risk to the SN in some way.. The airtight container is a lock n lock classic not made of glass but of high grade plastic with a silicon ring type material on the edges if the lid and decent air tight locks and is used, I believe, to store camera equipment to protect them from fungus. Any advice would be highly appreciated.

 

[bed]

Did you store this in the bottle which is shown in the picture? Can I ask if you'd opened it before doing the test when you first received it or did you open it for the first time specifically for the test?

the SN is from IC (old source) and had been opened multiple times and transferred into measured Ziplock bags. Below is a pic of what it was stored in for the test, which was done almost a year after sitting in this bottle. The test was also done with tap water which contradicts the previous belief that you needed to used distilled water to make it last longer.

 

[Relic]

The test was also done with tap water which contradicts the previous belief that you needed to used distilled water to make it last longer.

Distilled water is just a precaution because the results may vary, depending on the water supply:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1383586607002699

 

[Abyssal]

This should lower the amount of people who ctb before they are ready simply because they feel their SN is soon to expire. With how fewer sources there are so may feel forced into a 'now or never' belief. Nobody should ctb unless they are absolutely sure it is their time.

I've also been taught about the clumping thing and fully believed it, sorry to anyone who I spread misinformation to.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

This should lower the amount of people who ctb before they are ready simply because they feel their SN is soon to expire. With how fewer sources there are so may feel forced into a 'now or never' belief. Nobody should ctb unless they are absolutely sure it is their time.

I've also been taught about the clumping thing and fully believed it, sorry to anyone who I spread misinformation to.

Not surprised considering how popular this method is in terms of discussion, a lot of uninformed opinions became the norm that no one questioned or corrected. This is why it's important to do your research, to ascertain what is or isn't true. SN isn't a fragile compound but I also wish people's anxiety didn't get the better of them to worry about such things.

 

[Nagito]

Thank you, I've been searching for this information and this post is very helpful

 

[Manfrotto99]

This is very helpful and promising. Mine is past its use by date. Impossible to get anymore in Australia. I've opened it once and can tell it's gone clumpy when i shake it. I'm so afraid to test it and open it again incase i find out it's no longer any good. I know I have to as my time is coming to an end one way or another. You've given me some hope, thank you

 

[Forever Sleep]

Thank you so much for posting this. I don't know whether you'd be able to help but, I don't suppose you know about Metoclopromide? Mine is now already a few years out of date. Of course, online it says not to take them but I reckon that's just the big pharmaceuticals maximising their profits. What do you think?

 

[lilin]

Thanks for posting this! I have a question though: I have gotten it in a plastic bottle and thought about moving it to a glass one since it's better for storage. But I'm afraid that once I open the original bottle, the process of degradation will slowly start due to the contact with oxygen. What do you think?

 

[bed]

Thank you so much for posting this. I don't know whether you'd be able to help but, I don't suppose you know about Metoclopromide? Mine is now already a few years out of date. Of course, online it says not to take them but I reckon that's just the big pharmaceuticals maximising their profits. What do you think?

same thing applies to metoclopromide, it is good far past the expiry date.

Thanks for posting this! I have a question though: I have gotten it in a plastic bottle and thought about moving it to a glass one since it's better for storage. But I'm afraid that once I open the original bottle, the process of degradation will slowly start due to the contact with oxygen. What do you think?

Doesn't matter much, it's a highly stable compound.

 

[Forever Sleep]

same thing applies to metoclopromide, it is good far past the expiry date.

Doesn't matter much, it's a highly stable compound.

Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

Seriously @bed you've done well here. I can't remember how many threads I've personally responded about users asking about how long sn can stay pure even if opened once. SN is a highly stable compound, I remember reading about how some users didn't think their sn would work since they opened it a few times but it still did.

 

[Finalnight]

Thanks for this useful post @bed, I just have one concern, I got my SN not so long ago from a surrounding state, it came with a double plastic bag inside a cardboard box, I never replaced the plastic bags it came with, I just added another plastic layer to it and placed it into an airtight glass container. I'm keeping it in a hard plastic box with some moisture absorbers, but it worries me I transferred it to the container with the plastic bags it came with, so should I be worried about the SN having been affected by any water the original bags might have let pass to the SN?? Sorry for making this question maybe I misunderstood something in the comments, my brain doesn't work anymore…

 

[bed]

Thanks for this useful post @bed, I just have one concern, I got my SN not so long ago from a surrounding state, it came with a double plastic bag inside a cardboard box, I never replaced the plastic bags it came with, I just added another plastic layer to it and placed it into an airtight glass container. I'm keeping it in a hard plastic box with some moisture absorbers, but it worries me I transferred it to the container with the plastic bags it came with, so should I be worried about the SN having been affected by any water the original bags might have let pass to the SN?? Sorry for making this question, my brain doesn't work anymore…

the only way to fully know is to send it to a lab to get a purity test done or to do an aquarium test strip. like i said though SN is highly stable and yours is almost certainly fine.

 

[Finalnight]

the only way to fully know is to send it to a lab to get a purity test done or to do an aquarium test strip. like i said though SN is highly stable and yours is almost certainly fine.

I'll try getting aquarium test strips
Thank you for the reassuring response

 

[Linda]

The really important thing with SN is to keep it away from air. It will grab any oxygen in its vicinity, and degrade to sodium nitrate. An airtight container is a must.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

The really important thing with SN is to keep it away from air. It will grab any oxygen in its vicinity, and degrade to sodium nitrate. An airtight container is a must.

It's mainly moisture that's the one to keep sn away from plus it doesn't degrade into Nitrate after sometime otherwise manufacturers wouldn't even think of selling 500g as an example, since such an amount of sn won't be used in a short period time even after its been bought and opened in a lab setting.

 

[death2022]

Six to twelve months are the common expiration dates of NaNO2 that is sold as a solution. It is rarely marketed in that form, and is sold as a reagent. I have not seen any other purposes for it in this form.


A well sealed bottle is fine. Those who bought it in a bag should find a bottle for it, if there is a need to store it for a longer period.

I find some NaNO2 online sold as a solution, and I think it's sold as a reagent, just wanna know if it's a reagent could I use it for the purpose of cbt?

 

[Argo]

Stability of Sodium Nitrite

First we will look at SN since it is far more commonly used. "Curing salt has no hard expiration date. If your curing salt is only salt and sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite, it's good forever. Salt itself never goes bad, though yellowing and other discoloration is common. Moisture is a potential problem as it attracts microbes. To prevent such threats, store curing salts in dry, moisture-lock, airtight containers and in a cool dry place, such as your pantry or a dry goods storage closet.

Proper storage seems important or the SN can go bad. I had a container of 99%+ reagent grade SN with a malfunctioning cap that allowed the plastic bottle to give under pressure(Non-air tight seal) sitting undisturbed for 5 years. The SN degraded into Nitrate almost entirely (5-10% SN content) in those 5 years with the factory aluminum seal on the bottle being broken once, the bottle being opened exactly once, cap replaced, and stored undisturbed in those 5 years. So from my anecdotal experience it seems crucial to store it absolutely air tight, or it looks like it will go bad.