Society claims suicide is illogical

[Partial-Elf]

I think the suicide policy in most places is based on magic and stigma rather than science. Ie the thinking/assumptions are life is always worth it because it worth it even if you have an untreatable condition. Which inevitably leads to people being in more pain than being raped everyday including non suicidal people, espically in America. People are hooked up to tubes to be saved until the last possible second no matter how much pain it brings. Studies show families will generally choose their loved one to be hooked up to tubes to the last possible second when they can't consent. It doesn't matter if the pain is worse than being raped and there a 0.01 % of prolonging your life for a month in a hospital bed. They still do what they can to keep you alive. Stigma and magic prevents people from dying. Ie you can't die you are a coward, death is the most terrible thing ever etc even though many of these people claim once you die you go to eternal paradise. I see death as an neutral, it's a total absence, it's not bad but it's not good like an eternal dreamless sleep, which puts it around a neutral. We tell people you feel better through drugs even though the studies show the real way you feel better long term is through changing brain chemistry environmental factors. If someone who is not chronically ill, generally improves their social relationships through whatever means, exercises, sets meaningful goals they will generally have a higher quality of life, standard of living etc.

This was a good comment. I find it so confusing that people believe in eternal happy sunshine after death but also are so terrified and mournful of it. Makes me think they know it's bs on some level

 

[TAW122]

I think the suicide policy in most places is based on magic and stigma rather than science. Ie the thinking/assumptions are life is always worth it because it worth it even if you have an untreatable condition. Which inevitably leads to people being in more pain than being raped everyday including non suicidal people, espically in America. People are hooked up to tubes to be saved until the last possible second no matter how much pain it brings. Studies show families will generally choose their loved one to be hooked up to tubes to the last possible second when they can't consent. It doesn't matter if the pain is worse than being raped and there a 0.01 % of prolonging your life for a month in a hospital bed. They still do what they can to keep you alive. Stigma and magic prevents people from dying. Ie you can't die you are a coward, death is the most terrible thing ever etc even though many of these people claim once you die you go to eternal paradise. I see death as an neutral, it's a total absence, it's not bad but it's not good like an eternal dreamless sleep, which puts it around a neutral. We tell people you feel better through drugs even though the studies show the real way you feel better long term is through changing brain chemistry environmental factors. If someone who is not chronically ill, generally improves their social relationships through whatever means, exercises, sets meaningful goals they will generally have a higher quality of life, standard of living etc.

Finally, this is something that I agree with you. Anyways, to address this, I believe that much of the suffering is also exacerbated by society's ignorance on the root causes of suffering. As far as the last sentence, I guess it varies from people to people because some people might just be content without having those things, though for most others out there, yes a lot of them do benefit from changes in their environmental factors.

 

[Logic]

This was a good comment. I find it so confusing that people believe in eternal happy sunshine after death but also are so terrified and mournful of it. Makes me think they know it's bs on some level

I see religion as a tool that comes from mutual collectivism. I would guess it came about to make people feel better than opposing tribe,closer to tribe, increase likelihood of passing down information in previous environment, special, killing other opposing tribe, feel better about killing animals etc. I think religion in general effects behavior much less than most people think, as it's function is not to actually change your life but make you feel superior to opposing non part of your religion in some ways. If you look as studies religion and non religious people generally have similar rates of teen pregnancy, drug using or whatever metric you want to use. Christians do not actually appear to generally follow their own teachings, etc. Keep in mind like all traits a sprectrum, with religion as a trait certainly not perfect, it's a very flawed trait that reflects how it came about by chance.

 

[Logic]

Finally, this is something that I agree with you. Anyways, to address this, I believe that much of the suffering is also exacerbated by society's ignorance on the root causes of suffering. As far as the last sentence, I guess it varies from people to people because some people might just be content without having those things, though for most others out there, yes a lot of them do benefit from changes in their environmental factors.

Have you disagreed with me in most things I have said? Life is a very complex and poorly understood system. We don't know many of the rules, laws and information of the system, which results in what appears as magic in regards to that system but is actually just poorly understood. Let's take solving chess(being able to play a perfect game of chess) You may need to be able to think through one billion moves a second. So far beyond the greatest supercomputer in the world that many think it's impossible to actually ever solve. If a game life chess is this complicated, can you imagine how complicated solving life would be?

Studies show the largest factor in depression/happiness is generally social relationships, Ofcourse their are exceptions but that how it generally works. (They are not talking about being popular they are talking about having good social relationships) So if you greatly improve your social relationships it generally greatly improves your life.

 

[Partial-Elf]

I see religion as a tool that comes from mutual collectivism. I would guess it came about to make people feel better than opposing tribe,closer to tribe, increase likelihood of passing down information in previous environment, special, killing other opposing tribe, feel better about killing animals etc. I think religion in general effects behavior much less than most people think, as it's function is not to actually change your life but make you feel superior to opposing non part of your religion in some ways. If you look as studies religion and non religious people generally have similar rates of teen pregnancy, drug using or whatever metric you want to use. Christians do not actually appear to generally follow their own teachings, etc. Keep in mind like all traits a sprectrum, with religion as a trait certainly not perfect, it's a very flawed trait that reflects how it came about by chance.

I think what you're describing probably is fairly accurate: it does seem that religion is more about creating and strengthening in group preference rather than the magical thinking component.

My parents are a good example of this. They're nominally Christian, but don't go to church or practice or read the Bible. Yet when I expressed that I was no longer part of their religion, they were very hurt and concerned. Viewing this through the lens of your comment, they would be concerned because I was leaving their in group and becoming an other.

Similar thing has happened recently with a cousin who converted from Protestant to Catholic. Her parents and our shared extended family are actually serious practicing Christians and it's caused some tension... probably not because of their theological differences, but because they might semi-consciously view her as belonging to another tribe now.

 

[TAW122]

Have you disagreed with me in most things I have said? Life is a very complex and poorly understood system. We don't know many of the rules, laws and information of the system, which results in what appears as magic in regards to that system but is actually just poorly understood. Let's take solving chess(being able to play a perfect game of chess) You may need to be able to think through one billion moves a second. So far beyond the greatest supercomputer in the world that many think it's impossible to actually ever solve. If a game life chess is this complicated, can you imagine how complicated solving life would be?

Studies show the largest factor in depression/happiness is generally social relationships, Ofcourse their are exceptions but that how it generally works. (They are not talking about being popular they are talking about having good social relationships) So if you greatly improve your social relationships it generally greatly improves your life.

It wasn't in this thread, but it was in another thread a while back, but I'd rather not derail or delve into it here. If you are interested in the details, feel free to PM me. Nevertheless, yes for most people, if they improve their social relationships it can improve their life, but for me, it's quite a bit more complex than that since my quality of life isn't solely just dependent on social relationships and what not.