Resource SN FAQ - Storage, Recovery, Death

[Amumu]

Where do you put SN in summer when it's over 25 °C?

 

[Holloet]

Bump. Wondering if it's okay to store above 25° and if the heater blowing near it in the winter counts as heating it.

 

[Holloet]

Bump.

 

[ReluctantSeeker]

Storage -- Why SN does not readily oxidizes

Nitration may occur with abundance of water and oxygen, over time, and with more reagents or heat. Usually it's the other way around: NaNO3 decomposes naturally to NaNO2.

For example , NaNO2
View attachment 29831

And the notorious "Curing Salt":

View attachment 29832

Searching for NaNO2 oxidation always yields similar results:

View attachment 29833

I.e. a reagent is needed.




NaNO2 requires oxidative conditions:


Some more information:

Spoiler: Nitrous acid and nitrite salts

Nitrous acid (HNO2), a weak acid, is very unstable and exists only in aqueous solution. A pale blue solution of HNO2 is obtained when dinitrogen trioxide (N2O3) is added to water, and it is also easy to prepare HNO2 by adding acid to a solution of a nitrite. NO2− + H3O+ → HNO2 + H2O It decomposes slowly at room temperature—and more rapidly at elevated temperatures—to nitric acid and nitric oxide. Nitrous acid is oxidized to nitric acid by active oxidizing agents and acts as an oxidizing agent with strong reducing agents. Sodium nitrite, NaNO2, is an important example of a nitrite—that is, a salt of nitrous acid. It is typically prepared by reducing molten sodium nitrate with elemental lead. NaNO3 + Pb → NaNO2 + PbO This salt is added to meats, such as hot dogs, for two reasons. It prolongs the meat's retention of a red colour, and it inhibits the growth of bacteria that can cause food poisoning. The addition of sodium nitrite to meat is controversial because nitrous acid, which is produced in the human body when stomach acid reacts with the ingested nitrite ion, is known to react with certain organic compounds to form nitrosamines. Some of the compounds in the nitrosamine class are known to cause cancer in laboratory animals. Consequently, the United States Food and Drug Administration limits the amount of sodium nitrite that can be legally added to foods.

In general, the salts of all oxyacids are more stable than the acids themselves; such is the case with nitrites. They are much more stable than nitrous acid. Most nitrites are soluble in water and in concentrated forms, like nitrates, can explode upon heating or detonation.

As we can see NaNO2 will oxidize in a "rich environment" -- soil, sewage, aquarium, meat, etc -- because it reacts with other substances . (A simple spontaneous oxidization with water rarely occurs) .


TL;DR -- It requires much more for a serious reactions , like exposure to air and water over long periods of time , heat , or presence of more chemicals .

I was wondering specifically about this, and how sure I'd need to be about the containers being airtight. This would apply for other substances I'm looking to store long term (years). Learning as I go.

Could be named Stan.

- "Stan, can I use iso-gluto-propanol enema?"

- "I'm researching, please wait... <popcorn noises> Found answer. Please abort ctb planning. Go to sleep." (dunno how to make it darker)


----

Another add on:

Solid – very cold/hot weather here – what should I do?

Nothing. SN is transported in all climates without any heating/cooling. SN is simply not reactive – only to moisture, acid, extreme heat, etc

This guy solvents. Excellent guide!

I did buy a little army of SN at once to :
* keep a core supply that I'll never open until the last minute (the original mylar bag packaging appears excellent enough, with very little space for air at all, that I want to maintain the original seal intact)
* have extras destined at tests only, to monitor initial purity and degradation, at intervals spaced over time ...for those, I will basically waste and discard the amounts in excess
* trick LE in case I get a visit (mix of paranoia and good practice)

My general idea is to not rely on one unit I'd let untested, let time fly, then realize there's a shortcoming of supply, to discover ineffectiveness or worse, doubt it (if testing access N/A). In the past, I lived this experience, just to feel trapped with discomfort
That might look like overdoing it, but I know that my mental state sometimes disapproves the theories learned... so that's the only way for my peace of mind to maintain its sanity. I'm not forcing this recommandation to anyone else

So yeah, I want to dispose of the garbage without "shitting in the pool", give some rest to the planet earth (I enjoy the idea it will have a major break when I leave ! though I'm already not a "consumer" by general standards)

This is among my thoughts for preparation as well. Overkill, redundant, done well ahead of time, with failsafe if at all possible, and trying to anticipate the biggest/most obvious 'gotchas'. My idea is 'you only have one free chance to get it right'

 

[xBrialesana]

This guide is amazing, I always come back to it.
I've been asking everywhere so I've annoyed people to hell but I wish I could get an answer on my SN and the heat it was in :( I guess self experimentation is really the only option which I'm not down for lol..

 

[DyingMiND]

Will I have permanent damage if SN taken without medical intervention?

No. You will not have permanent damage. But you won't survive – scenario very unlikely – without rescue 99% fatal.

I was searching the web about this but had a difficult time finding much about failing SN ingestion and subsequent brain or organ damage. It just seems that lack of oxygen to many organ systems with a high demand for oxygen (ex. Liver and brain) wouldn't be damaging. The brain takes 30 percent of your body's oxygen (2nd highest as I read) so it would seem that without rapid intervention, that you would have some degree of damage. Your breath is not "shielded" by anything. A lack of oxygen is a lack of oxygen to every part of the human body. Just some thoughts.

 

[WanderingWater]

I was searching the web about this but had a difficult time finding much about failing SN ingestion and subsequent brain or organ damage. It just seems that lack of oxygen to many organ systems with a high demand for oxygen (ex. Liver and brain) wouldn't be damaging. The brain takes 30 percent of your body's oxygen (2nd highest as I read) so it would seem that without rapid intervention, that you would have some degree of damage. Your breath is not "shielded" by anything. A lack of oxygen is a lack of oxygen to every part of the human body. Just some thoughts.

Ischemic Stroke

 

[Cathy Ames]

I was searching the web about this but had a difficult time finding much about failing SN ingestion and subsequent brain or organ damage. It just seems that lack of oxygen to many organ systems with a high demand for oxygen (ex. Liver and brain) wouldn't be damaging. The brain takes 30 percent of your body's oxygen (2nd highest as I read) so it would seem that without rapid intervention, that you would have some degree of damage. Your breath is not "shielded" by anything. A lack of oxygen is a lack of oxygen to every part of the human body. Just some thoughts.

Medical professionals agree with you. It appears that survival without damage is POSSIBLE but not guaranteed. I would not use this method unless definitely planning on and arranging for success.

 

[DyingMiND]

Medical professionals agree with you. It appears that survival without damage is POSSIBLE but not guaranteed. I would not use this method unless definitely planning on and arranging for success.

Can you give me some ideas on how plan for success (aside from Stan's guide)? You can dm me if you would like to share thoughts.

 

[Cathy Ames]

Can you give me some ideas on how plan for success (aside from Stan's guide)? You can dm me if you would like to share thoughts.

For a hypothetical person planning this, I think the biggest thing would be not getting found and rescued. I think that's in Stan's guide.

 

[DyingMiND]

For a hypothetical person planning this, I think the biggest thing would be not getting found and rescued. I think that's in Stan's guide.

Yes. Very true. I guess I'll have to read some more threads about people's individual guides or ideas to make it more successful , hypothetically speaking!

 

[diyCTB]

Can you give me some ideas on how plan for success (aside from Stan's guide)? You can dm me if you would like to share thoughts.

How about devolving SN in DMSO and rubbing yourself after investing SN?

 

[DyingMiND]

How about devolving SN in DMSO and rubbing yourself after investing SN?

Did you mean to say "dissolving" sn in DMSO (I have no idea what that is or how to get it) and then rub myself? After ingesting SN? I don't really follow.

 

[diyCTB]

@Wastedaway Yes dissolving. DMSO thread by Xerxes. Try searching it was made here a while ago. I thought it would make SN even more effective because not only digestion is at work but absorption by skin.

 

[NoahJuan]

@Wastedaway Yes dissolving. DMSO thread by Xerxes. Try searching it was made here a while ago. I thought it would make SN even more effective because not only digestion is at work but absorption by skin.

Not sure it would dissolve in dmso.

 

[DyingMiND]

Interesting. I'll do a search on that. Btw, are you planning on this method or just thinking about it?

I have the SN but not a weigh scale or measuring cup just yet. I don't have the propranolol and won't be able to get it. I still need to get the AE which shouldn't be difficult. As far as tagamet or similar, I'm not sure as people say a PPI to reduce stomach acid is good. Yet, others say milk of magnesia. So confused and I don't want to fail. Living with brain damage is not what I want Also, I really don't want to call EMS for help... Then it's a huge issue and off to a psych ward.

Thx for your help.

 

[Shu]

Interesting. I'll do a search on that. Btw, are you planning on this method or just thinking about it?

I have the SN but not a weigh scale or measuring cup just yet. I don't have the propranolol and won't be able to get it. I still need to get the AE which shouldn't be difficult. As far as tagamet or similar, I'm not sure as people say a PPI to reduce stomach acid is good. Yet, others say milk of magnesia. So confused and I don't want to fail. Living with brain damage is not what I want Also, I really don't want to call EMS for help... Then it's a huge issue and off to a psych ward.

Thx for your help.

I'm using milk of magnesia.

 

[diyCTB]

SN is a poor man's N and is good for me. Milk and magnesia sounds like overcomplication. SN be dissolved in water at least and maybe DSMO act as an absorption accelerator when rubbed on first? I bough small weights from China to make sure my scale is calibrated.

 

[Euthanza]

Massive FAQ dump .

Death .
Official	"SN Poisoning" Easily detectable, nothing more to it.
How does it work exactly?	Blood cells do not carry oxygen, though lungs continue to supply it, and brain is still working. Cells in body turn to anaerobic metabolism for a while and eventually die , after couple of hours . SN also causes blood cell destruction, plus circulatory disorder (blood cannot flow to tissue).
What's the medical state?	The body can be described as suffering: hemolytic anemia, "blood failure", or anemic hypoxia, "blood fails to deliver oxygen". Tissue slowly dies, but not due to lack of oxygen in cells (like cyanide) or lungs (like suffocation), rather due to 'bad blood' . It shares similarities with CO2 poisoning .
Is it like suffocation?	No. Suffocation (hypoxic hypoxia) is a stressful experience, involving reflexes, pain, and rapid damage within minutes. SN does not deprive oxygen from you body, but to individual cells within your body.
Will my brain continue to function?	Yes. Brain continues to function, even with 30% oxygen level. SN is a gradual slow process.
Will I feel death?	No, if regime followed. With low oxygen levels you faint and lose consciousness. Brain goes into "sleep mode" – everything keeps working, but you fall asleep.
Can it be disguised as accident?	Never . Your face turns blue and your blood turns dark -- that's visible . It cannot be disguised as hypothermia or suffocation
Can I donate organs?	Never. Suspicion of either suicide or poisoning forbids that. Autopsy and inquest required , cannot harvest organs (even if permitted) .
Do you "fall asleep" due to hypoxia or sedatives?	Either or both. SN: faint around 13m , unconsciousness around 20m. Benzo: taking several can knock out , in 15m-30m So either / both You may time to be asleep when SN affects
. Recovery .
SN fatal even in small dosages?	YES. DO NOT TRY OR TASTE IT.
Can I recover?	YES – with HOSPITAL CARE.
Can I recover on my own?	NO.
What happens in recovery/hospital?	Methylene Blue is an antidote. Minute dosage of it increases oxygen from fatal 20% to healthy 90% within 30-60m. Patients regain consciousness within 2-8 hours; dissmissed after 1-3 days; unless kept for psychiatric evaluation. Hospitals sometime follow further procedures, but these were not found to be crucial just supportive, may hasten recovery: Oxygen therapy, Ascorbic acid (MetHb elimination), Cimetidine (reduces hematotoxins).
Can I be rescued?	YES. Usually within 1-2 hours. Sometimes up to 3-4h after ingestion.
Will I have permanent damage?	NO – You either die or recover Plethora of SN poisoning cases with no medical evidence of damage. Probably due to mode of action – slow cell/tissue death until total collapse. In the meantime everything is working.
If only small amount digested can I recover alone?	NO . This is extremely rare .
Will I have permanent damage if SN taken without medical intervention?	No. You will not have permanent damage. But you won't survive – scenario very unlikely – without rescue 99% fatal.
Why SN does not cause brain damage?	Hypoxic brain injury (drastic reduction in oxygen) is much slower than anoxic brain injury (sudden shutoff of oxygen, kills brain cells in 4 minutes). Other organs die first . Heart, kidneys, etc collapse first – see research link Possible temporary damage to globus pallidus (basal ganglia) – spontanously healed after few days [1]
Chances of coma / becoming vegetable?	Currently 0% , as far as we know: Out of thousands poisoning cases throughout centuries – there are no such documented cases. [1] [2] "The Chinese Case" is not documented , we don't know patient background , and family claims malpractice . The child is not vegetative but brain dead (no chances of waking up). It is not a good case to study . [1]
Storage .
Primer	SN acts much like table salt (NaCl). Hygroscopic – absorbs water . Does not reactwith water but dissolves to ions , suspended between H20 molecules . Google "reactions vs ionic solution" . Dissolves readily up to 40% (see graph) Should not be heated . Combustible .
Solid​
Can I open and close bottle?	YES. Unless you're in a sauna .. It does not oxidize with oxygen , only with water (that solution is potent) Frequent exposure will damage it, but over time. Occasional won't. Clamps are fine Normal temperatures are fine . SN is transported in trucks/airplanes neither heated nor cooled . SN storage warnings mention only high heat, reagents, pressure, and combustion. That includes strong acids / bases / oxidizers . These may cause reaction .
Refrigerate?	No. SN is not reactive (only to moisture, heat, strong acid/base) In industry kept at room temperature for years – simple plastic container Refrigerators have moisture – don't overdo [1]
Extreme weather for transport/storage problem?	No. SN is transported in all climates without any heating/cooling. SN is simply not reactive – only to moisture, acid, extreme heat, etc
Solution (liquid)​
Will it go bad quickly?	NO. Only after few hours. Strong solutions (40%) are potent and durable . Weaker solutions will slightly react to create nitrates (aquarium) . Labs store 40% solution in room temperature, open and close it, so some oxygen is fine. Pure 100%, required in delicate biochem tests (DNA), must be prepared freshly ; but 99% is fine for us . Labs use purified water and under sterile condition.
How long is it potent?	At least several hours, if not more. It has nothing to react with – but minute minerals, dirt, etc in drinking water .
Should I refrigerate?	No. While labs store 40% solution, our water is "dirty", and we lack sterile environment. Cooling should not cause SN to change behaviour , but don't . See saturation/temperature graph (OP)
Should I use heated water?	No. SN , like salt , readily dissolves in room temperature water . Stir it . Heating will cause SN to change behaviour – don't.
Summary​
	Water Solution Few Hours Packed Air-Tight Few Years Clumps, temporary exposure to air , are okay Air Few Weeks Will lose potency slowly, due to humidity (H2O) not oxygen

SN Intake .
Common symptoms?	Stan's Guide Success/failure stories – provide full testimonies It's individual. Each member mentioned something else -- that another wasn't worried about.
"Pain"?	Issue are NOT painful, but bad sensory/mental experience for many
Burning throat	Some report mild painful – most haven't
Fast heart rate	Some report 200bpm – like strenuous sprinting but while sitting down – can be scary. Can induce anxiety – see Benzo, Beta-Blockers. Again others were not that bothered.
Taste​
Taste	SN tastes like salt [1] . In high concentration that is disgusting . Some report bad taste – others didn't care. Taste rarely causes vomiting itself Amitryptyline > N > SN (least horrible) Discomfort documented [1][2] – taste complaints "very disgusting" (few felt nothing)
Salt trial	This is not a recommended practice. If very worried – may test with regular kitchen salt. It is not required. Members tried [1] [2] [3] Mostly safe but careful , research Some reported SN taste – don't try! – see above threads .
How to take SN	Quick shot to back of throat – best practice. Don't sip [1] Straw (direct to throat) was suggested , some used – too slow sucking SN? Discussed dozens times, search threads.
Aftertaste	Something strong to overcome taste Without much calories , acidity , irritation Avoid ingestion – at least 10 minutes to allow SN intake [1]
Aftertaste – Tips	Suck ice cube before/after – reduce taste, soothes (see here) Drink 50ml ice water – refreshing (don't drink much) Gargle mouthwash (or water) Suck on: Chocolate tablet Mint Bit honey , jam Anything that won't be ingested / irritate stomach
Vomiting ​
Vomiting	SN fatal even if vomited 50ml on empty stomach (very little) – no prolonged / severe / violent vomitin
Servings / Vomiting practice	Stan's Practice – 3 Servings If vomit before fainting – drink next serving Don't force drink #2 – body already absorbed SN Following Stan practice, example: Serving Serving What happened Drank Vomited Absorbed #1 20g Drank all & vomited a lot 20g 15g 5g #2 20g Partially drank serving & vomited some 14g 7g 7g #3 20g Never used Total SN 12g (fatal) If vomit within 10m – may take more SN Fainting around 12m indicates fatality – sufficient SN absorption (no need for more)
PPH practice , vomiting	PPH Practice - 1 Big Serving Serving Size What happened Drank Vomited Absorbed #1 25g Vomited 25g 15g 10g Total SN 10g (fatal) If vomit within 10m – still fatal – no need for more SN
Dosage​
PPH / Stan	To absorb more SN despite possible vomit -- two strategies emerged: PPH increased dose through the years: 15g –> 20g –> 25g Stan's multiple serving – if vomit take more, 3 x 20g Notes: How many actually drank several servings? Unconfirmed [1] Too much SN may cause instant vomiting? Unconfirmed
Dosage	PPH = 1 x 25g Stan = 3 x 20g
Over 100kg	PPH = 1x 35g Stan = 3x 25g
Under 60kg *	This had been suggested by some , but not confirmed. PPH = 1x 20g Stan = 3x 15g * We have no evidence that special practice is required . PPH addresses old fragile people , many underweight .
Table per weight?	Not required . jgm63 table is mathematical/theoretical and may complicate preparation [1] . We have no info on those dosages , may use at own discretion .
Warnings​
Double dose?	DON'T. Double dose may do the opposite (vomiting all instead of some), though we don't know and PPH have doubled the dose through the years.
Routes of administration?	DON'T. Search threads. Enema – strong salts burn and literally destroy membranes . (example , more) Capsules – need quick SN and in intestines -- capsules interfere , not practical (details , absorption) IV / Injection -- Vein will collapse , SN won't enter blood (destroy membranes) [1] ; not practical [2] [3]
Alcohol	DON'T. Search threads. 100ml alcohol changes everything Stomach acidity, metabolism, and absorption (even 3h after drink) Vomit more and/or violently Opposite effects -- increase anxiety/headache Recommendation is to barely drink water for max SN absorption, additions are counter productive, don't mix poisons.
Weed / Marijuana / MDMA	DON'T. Search threads. Weed not strong antiemetic Psychoactive effects while ctb – hazardous Intensify feeling – panic & survival instinct Freak out , unpredictable Combining 2 extreme experiences in one Example , example , example , and plenty more
Can I drink after SN?	NO. Read members testimonies. Your stomach will be in turmoil , interacting with SN , with chances of vomiting -- adding more to the mix is bad. [1] Suggested aftertaste solutions, and small gulp of water, would do little harm.

~

Fasting .
Timeline	5h before SN– light meal – start fasting. Individual , may consider 4h or 6h Avoid alcohol Next 3 hours– water, non-acidic juices – moderation (glass or two) Avoid acidic, carbonated, caffeinated, fatty drinks. See snack options Next hour – Only water. Drink freely , that is few glasses (not litres) [1] Next hour – complete fast (no drinking) After SN– may have a small chocolate tablet or mint etc for taste Don't overdo – may cause nausea Example and discussion
Timeline (brief)	00:00 Light meal , start fasting Water ok Some snacks , light juices 03:00 Only water 04:00 Stop water 05:00 SN Intake
Juices	Juices/shakes made with either carrot, aloe, cabbage, beet, watermelon, spinach, cucumber, pear, etc You know your stomach better.
Snacks	Fruit & veg – simple non-acidic, small amount. Candy – simple sugars, no fat, up to 100 calories Apples are acidic and fiberous (long travel in intestines) but 1 small apple 4h before SN could be ok – you know your stomach.
Acidic, carbonated, caffeinated, fatty drinks?	Avoid. If must have – 3h before SN intake (at most 2h) Not recommended
Original PPH timeline (strict)	8h before intake – light meal , start fasting Next 6 hours: Some water. If must drink – small amounts of non-acidic juices Next 2 hours: Complete fast – no drinking
Why did it change?	Quick gastric emptying for fluids and simple sugars pH returns to normal 1h after emptying Intestines partially empty – is sufficient for SN absorption See detailed version with data

Thanks for this.

I wonder if Cimetidine used in recovery therapy is the cause why PPeH May 2022 remove it all (along with Antacid and PPI)

 

[diyCTB]

I wonder if Cimetidine used in recovery therapy is the cause why PPeH May 2022 remove it all (along with Antacid and PPI

Cimetidine is antacid. In the beginning 4x200mg tablets were recommended. Then it went down to 2x200mg. Someone told me it can affect SN absorption. I forgot the reason.

In guide it is mentioned SN vomited vs. absorbed but it should be ingested. SN absorbed by intestines is what should be determining because during absorption some of is converted to nitrate. So 7g ingested is does not mean absorbed.

I wonder what level of discomfort does burning sensation in throat cause. Amd whether I should take 25g once and it will do it's job even if vomit insignificantly. Can't imagine how to muster the will to drink second glass with burning throat already and feeling nauseous. Maybe wrapping SN in tapioca sheet and swallowing could take care at least of burning throat?

 

[Euthanza]

Cimetidine is antacid. In the beginning 4x200mg tablets were recommended. Then it went down to 2x200mg. Someone told me it can affect SN absorption. I forgot the reason.

In guide it is mentioned SN vomited vs. absorbed but it should be ingested. SN absorbed by intestines is what should be determining because during absorption some of is converted to nitrate. So 7g ingested is does not mean absorbed.

I wonder what level of discomfort does burning sensation in throat cause. Amd whether I should take 25g once and it will do it's job even if vomit insignificantly. Can't imagine how to muster the will to drink second glass with burning throat already and feeling nauseous. Maybe wrapping SN in tapioca sheet and swallowing could take care at least of burning throat?

Read up @Quarky00 post I reply to

"Pain"?	Issue are NOT painful, but bad sensory/mental experience for many
Burning throat	Some report mild painful – most haven't

Also you can search in "SN chocolate" thread, but I think it complicates things
Thread 'Scientific Help Needed, SN without tasting it, (Not Capsules or Rizla\Rolling Papers) Chocolate Flavoured' https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...zla-rolling-papers-chocolate-flavoured.37698/

 

[Throwaway8675309]

Can anyone look over my schedule and see if everything looks okay?

 

[Umacon]

Very helpful topic, thanks!