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DEATH IS FREEDOM

DEATH IS FREEDOM

Death is the solution to unsolvable problems.
Sep 13, 2023
608
A virtual reality is a computer technology that creates an environment, real or imagined and simulates the user´s physical presence and environment. Researchers have concluded that it is more likely that we live in a simulation than that we do not and that it is probably simulants that simulated us. In theory, it should be possible to simulate an entire world that could in no way to be distinguished from the real world. Since there is only one real world and the number of virtual worlds is infinite, the probability that we are in the real world is almost zero. A thought experiment: In the real world, it is the year 2500 and a scientist has developed a technology that creates the reality in which we now live. Reality is an illusion.

Scientific American: Confirmed! We live in a simulation

Simulation
 
sserafim

sserafim

they say it’s darkest of all before the dawn
Sep 13, 2023
8,008
A virtual reality is a computer technology that creates an environment, real or imagined and simulates the user´s physical presence and environment. Researchers have concluded that it is more likely that we live in a simulation than that we do not and that it is probably simulants that simulated us. In theory, it should be possible to simulate an entire world that could in no way to be distinguished from the real world. Since there is only one real world and the number of virtual worlds is infinite, the probability that we are in the real world is almost zero. A thought experiment: In the real world, it is the year 2500 and a scientist has developed a technology that creates the reality in which we now live. Reality is an illusion.

Scientific American: Confirmed! We live in a simulation

View attachment 121744
I knew it. Everything is just too absurd to be real
 
IsThisEverything

IsThisEverything

Member
Nov 1, 2023
88
I've thought a lot about this, and it does make sense. Some of our reality has similarities to a computer generated virtual world - for example, the speed of light is a limit on information transfer, just like computers have a maximum transfer rate. There is also a resolution limit when you consider the planck length. Some aspects of quantum mechanics could also be explained by the simulation theory.
 
leavingthesoultrap

leavingthesoultrap

(ᴗ_ ᴗ。)
Nov 25, 2023
1,057
Have you ever seen your neighbors bring their groceries into their house? Think about it. I havent. It something people should do very frequently.
Also people saw the simulation code while on DMT and pointing laser on a wall. The light had numbers in it.
 
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Sukui

Sukui

Member
Dec 3, 2023
64
A virtual reality is a computer technology that creates an environment, real or imagined and simulates the user´s physical presence and environment. Researchers have concluded that it is more likely that we live in a simulation than that we do not and that it is probably simulants that simulated us. In theory, it should be possible to simulate an entire world that could in no way to be distinguished from the real world. Since there is only one real world and the number of virtual worlds is infinite, the probability that we are in the real world is almost zero. A thought experiment: In the real world, it is the year 2500 and a scientist has developed a technology that creates the reality in which we now live. Reality is an illusion.

Scientific American: Confirmed! We live in a simulation

View attachment 121744
The chance we live in a simulation is 50/50, because as a civilization we haven't reached the point of creating universal scale simulations ourselves yet.
This can only mean that we either currently are the very last reality at the end of the long Chain of simulations within simulations, or that we are the very first original reality that preceeds everything else.

Personally i would prefer the thought of being in a simulation, because that would increase the chance of something cool happening after death.
 
Sprite_Geist

Sprite_Geist

NULL
May 27, 2020
1,539
An interesting article, but this piece in particular caught my attention:

"We are qualia-generating machines. Like characters in Grand Theft Auto, we exist to create integrated audiovisual outputs."

If this is true then I am still waiting for a mod kit to be released. The sooner I can noclip to the shops while carrying a missile launcher the better.
 
D

delayedcactus

Member
Nov 27, 2023
86
A virtual reality is a computer technology that creates an environment, real or imagined and simulates the user´s physical presence and environment. Researchers have concluded that it is more likely that we live in a simulation than that we do not and that it is probably simulants that simulated us. In theory, it should be possible to simulate an entire world that could in no way to be distinguished from the real world. Since there is only one real world and the number of virtual worlds is infinite, the probability that we are in the real world is almost zero. A thought experiment: In the real world, it is the year 2500 and a scientist has developed a technology that creates the reality in which we now live. Reality is an illusion.

Scientific American: Confirmed! We live in a simulation

View attachment 121744
I've often done things that was odd like freezing in the middle of serving food onto my plate. I remember thinking "whoa that was weird. Why did I do that? Looks like a glitch in the matrix". And other things like feeling like the Grand Canyon is a giant green screen, like it's just so vast to be real. That's how I felt observing it from the viewpoints. But if I hiked through it on foot, I'm sure I would feel a different way lol.
 
Blurry_Buildings

Blurry_Buildings

Just Existing
Sep 27, 2023
335
And they probably made this shitty simulation a copy of their own civilization xD

At least there's a decent chance that once I die whatever constitutes "me" will be deleted
 
L

Lostandlooking

In limbo
Jul 23, 2020
423
I don't believe we live in a simulation. I haven't read much on the subject. But I got curious. The article in the first post I sadly couldn't read. The link said 'page not found'. And I watched about half of the video in post #4. Listening to all of this one question immediately comes to mind: why would reality be a simulation? Somehow the entities that made the simulation would benefit from it in some way. One explanation I could think of is that we exist in this simulation purely as entertainment for some sadistic entity. Are there any other explanations as to why our reality is a simulation?

I'm a sceptic I admit. But I'm curious. And I'll respect anyone else's opinions or insights on the subject.
 
F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
7,751
So- does that mean that choice isn't real? Are they thinking for us- are they us? or- are we being cojoled into making certain choices? Why are those choices so dumb then?!! Are they stupid too? You'd think earlier on, these players would have seen we were on a path to destroying the home planet. Oh God- they're just as crap at city builder games as me! 😬 Maybe they're looking forward to the next character types though - AI or cockroaches maybe if it goes the nuclear war route.

They can't be that stupid though- surely? If they were smart enough to create an actual physical reality with things like gravity and then, find a way to 'play' here. (Spoiler alert: 'The Matrix' film.) Unless- they are the real slaves- like 'The Matrix'. In which case- why are their masters allowing them to destroy the earth? Are they working out scenarios for their own race maybe? But then- they're already more developed than us. They either created this simulation or- found it and stolen it to play on.

Did they get fed up with playing with dinnoaurs then? Personally, I think I would have wanted to keep a few of them around. Got to be more fun being a T Rex than it is a jellyfish. Or- maybe dinnosaurs are part of our back story and weren't real at all. But then- why go to all that effort?

Still- it would make sense for how random and unjust it all seems. So, is suicide the means for them- or us to 'force quit'? Who is willing that? Them or us?

What's the genre of this game? Are there winners? Is it a shoot em up? In which case- soldiers and serial killers are in the lead. Or- is it a distraction? Not for 'us' here- if this is a simulation- then- we aren't real. Is this 'The Matrix'? So, our controllers are the real beings and they are being subjugated to play this game. Do they die when we do? Or, do they get to play someone else? I don't blame mine for being sick of me!

I don't know. I've just never really gone for this theory. Like all the other ones concerning fate and God- it seems to take responsibility away from us. As in- 'It's not my fault I've done terrible things- that was my destiny. That's what something else made me do.' I feel like we're powerless enough to chance and nature and all that but to think we don't have the power to choose either, I don't know, it just seems kind of pointless. Maybe it is though.
 
Blurry_Buildings

Blurry_Buildings

Just Existing
Sep 27, 2023
335
I don't believe we live in a simulation. I haven't read much on the subject. But I got curious. The article in the first post I sadly couldn't read. The link said 'page not found'. And I watched about half of the video in post #4. Listening to all of this one question immediately comes to mind: why would reality be a simulation? Somehow the entities that made the simulation would benefit from it in some way. One explanation I could think of is that we exist in this simulation purely as entertainment for some sadistic entity. Are there any other explanations as to why our reality is a simulation?

I'm a sceptic I admit. But I'm curious. And I'll respect anyone else's opinions or insights on the subject.
A simulation of humanity could serve as a research tool to help predict the influence of certain factors in the development of civilizations. The results could be taken from many thousands of simulations and averaged out to see the relative importance of each factor and how these factors relate to each other and their effects on human development.

Every simulation would start with the evolution of modern humans or the beginning of human society. Considering that in the year 2023 there are still wars and instances of political instability worldwide, we might be in the very beginning stages of a simulated civilization. When you think about it this way it just means you were lucky enough not to be amongst the very few born at the beginning of the simulation (terrible living conditions and dismal life expectancies) and unlucky enough not to be in the vast majority born during humanity's yet to come prime of technological and organizational advancement. Maybe in 1,000 years the 45 billion members of humanity will scoff at the idea of permitting homelessness or living for a mere 70 years (of course I scoff at the idea of living past 25 but y'know)

Being in this specific kind of simulation would not remove the burden of free will though because your actions in response to your situation would help contribute to the outcome of the simulation as a whole.
 
L

Lostandlooking

In limbo
Jul 23, 2020
423
A simulation of humanity could serve as a research tool to help predict the influence of certain factors in the development of civilizations. The results could be taken from many thousands of simulations and averaged out to see the relative importance of each factor and how these factors relate to each other and their effects on human development.
Thank you for your reply. I see that a training simulation could be one of the answers to why such a simulation would exist.

There's a lot of assumptions you have to make when thinking about these things. (So it seems to me) So if it's very advanced humans running the simulation. And their goal is somehow to develop a better civilization for themselves. Why would they be so cruel as to allow abuse, war, terrible diseases for the ones living in the civilization? Maybe these advanced civilizations haven't figured it out at all and they're absolutely desperate for some kind of insight and or solution?

Would there be simulations where they made sure that no-one ever went hungry? To study the effects of that on development of all kinds of issues.

For me this is purely a thought experiment. And it feels like science fiction. (which I enjoy) Thank you for your answer though.
 
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Homo erectus

Homo erectus

Mage
Mar 7, 2023
560
Are they sure this is a simulation and not a dream? Dreams can be seen as thought experiments. The machine hosting them is the brain. Like simulations, dreams usually leave out many details and are full of contradiction and absurdity.
 
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Blurry_Buildings

Blurry_Buildings

Just Existing
Sep 27, 2023
335
Why would they be so cruel as to allow abuse, war, terrible diseases for the ones living in the civilization? Maybe these advanced civilizations haven't figured it out at all and they're absolutely desperate for some kind of insight and or solution?

Would there be simulations where they made sure that no-one ever went hungry? To study the effects of that on development of all kinds of issues.

I was thinking it would be either to probe for solutions to a greater problem they themselves are experiencing (like you said) or just for the sake of pure research/ academic inquiry, like how animal behavior is sometimes studied to give insights into human nature, or how anthropologists in our world track the movement and activities of millions of people to draw conclusions about our societies. When looking at it that way I think they would also create a simulation where no one ever went hungry or some other kind of utopia.

In terms of the cruelty, I feel like they would treat it the same way we ourselves treat the simpler computer simulations we have now. If we are a simulation, then we are not "real" to them, and whatever happens to us has no effect on them. Or maybe some of them do see us as "real" but wish for us to exist anyways because, for the vast majority of people, existance is a good thing.

Although I agree that ironically everything related to our existance (and the origin of everything) relies on a lot of assumptions.

Are they sure this is a simulation and not a dream? Dreams can be seen as thought experiments. The machine hosting them is the brain. Like simulations, dreams usually leave out many details and are full of contradiction and absurdity.

I wonder whose dream this is lol. I'm not sure whether I should be impressed with the detail or moderately annoyed at them for the sheer absurdity at this point.
 
PrettyPotato

PrettyPotato

-
Dec 11, 2023
116
Here's a thought - what if it is all a simulation, but one that became so messed up that the creators got bored and/or disgusted with it and have now forgotten it's even still running. They've moved onto another more enjoyable simulation, and this one is just pottering along on some hardware with cobwebs hanging off it at the back of a cupboard.

That would tie quite nicely into the concept of religion and gods of course!
'God' created the universe, but was so horrified with how it was all going that 2000 years ago they alt-tabbed and started up another one...
In other words they're not cruel per se, they just don't think about our worlds at all.
 
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Celerity

Celerity

shape without form, shade without colour
Jan 24, 2021
2,733
I don't understand the appeal of this idea. First off, it is as falsifiable as the existence of leprechauns, the possibility of an invisible giant turtle holding up the earth, or any other supernatural being you can conceive of. The many-worlds hypothesis is of a similar scientific caliber. Lots of pretty theories for how it could be true and nothing in the way of evidence.

Second, what does living in a simulation really change about how I think about my life or reality? If I can't tell it's fake, what does it matter? Unless there is a more "real" universe to which I could travel, it is a moot point to me.
 
DarkRange55

DarkRange55

Enlightened
Oct 15, 2023
1,318
I think there's a good chance humans might be a dream of somebody else, we might be the dream. When you have a strange dream they seem so real. There's a possibility one day we all wake up and all this was a dream. I think there's a high probability and even some of the *smartest scientists think that,* its either our own dream or some future version of ourself.

We also could be living in parallel universes, thats my thing that I think I believe. So I think that the reason prayer works is because I think there's parallel universes happening at the same time but each one with slight variations. The reason manifesting or prayer or positive thinking or if you're an atheist they use positive psychology. The reason that happens, I think in the blink of an eye you switch into another universe and you don't realize it happened. If you're religious you call that a miracle. If you're a scientist you call that a time warp. And you just warp into another universe.
I don't understand the appeal of this idea. First off, it is as falsifiable as the existence of leprechauns, the possibility of an invisible giant turtle holding up the earth, or any other supernatural being you can conceive of. The many-worlds hypothesis is of a similar scientific caliber. Lots of pretty theories for how it could be true and nothing in the way of evidence.

Second, what does living in a simulation really change about how I think about my life or reality? If I can't tell it's fake, what does it matter? Unless there is a more "real" universe to which I could travel, it is a moot point to me.
I'm not a solipsist and I also don't think its useful to think of this as a simulation but how do we know or at least have evidence that this not a Boltzmann Brain or a simulation?

As I use the terms, the omniverse is all that can exist; the multiverse is all that does exist – I suspect that these are the same, because that is the simplest answer.

Mathematically this produces the same results as classical quantum theory so there is no physical evidence for or against it relative to regular quantum theory. However it explains anthropocentric fine tuning, the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics, entanglement, and wave function collapse all with a single mechanism that provides logical, intuitive explanations rather than needing ad hoc assumptions, so in that sense it is simpler than the other theories that produce similar mathematical results.

My omniverse version is a simple explanation of entanglement, wave-function collapse, and universe fine-tuning.

I subscribe to multiverse theory, but a different flavor than the classic "every observation causes a splitting" nonsense. 
A multiverse solves the fine-tuning problem, and makes sense of quantum mechanics (both the apparent randomness, and the spooky action at a distance).

I have never found a testable prediction that my version of the multiverse makes that differs from the predictions that quantum mechanics makes. My version merely provides a simple, plausible explanation for: wave function "collapse" upon observation, the need to have an observer for a given "reality" to exist, and spooky action at a distance. fine-turing and the anthropic principle.
It also answers the physics question from an "exam" that I saw in my high school guidance counselor's office: "explain the universe in 25 words or less, and give two examples". My answer is: "everything that can exist always exists, and in some universes you realize this".
(the biology question was something like "write down a complete, balanced chemical equation for life").

The evidence for a multiverse is that it makes a lot of weird things in quantum mechanics intuitive, which is only indirect evidence.

Regarding multiverse theory, I am not a fan of the version that says that the universe splits every time you measure a probabilistic outcome. That is even more a case of the tail wagging the dog than the classical quantum theory that says that the wave function collapses when it is observed.

By multiverse I mean a multiverse where everything that can exist always exists.
In that case all possible outcomes always exist and when you make an observation or measurement you are merely determining which thread within the multiverse this particular thread of your consciousness finds itself on. Consider two entangled photons where they will be guaranteed to have opposite spins but quantum mechanics says their spins are not predetermined. In my version of multiverse theory, entanglement makes total sense – if you measure one photon and find out that you are in a universe where it is spin up, of course in that universe the other one is spin down – no spooky action at a distance needed all.
 
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Celerity

Celerity

shape without form, shade without colour
Jan 24, 2021
2,733
I think there's a good chance humans might be a dream of somebody else, we might be the dream. When you have a strange dream they seem so real. There's a possibility one day we all wake up and all this was a dream. I think there's a high probability and even some of the *smartest scientists think that,* its either our own dream or some future version of ourself.

We also could be living in parallel universes, thats my thing that I think I believe. So I think that the reason prayer works is because I think there's parallel universes happening at the same time but each one with slight variations. The reason manifesting or prayer or positive thinking or if you're an atheist they use positive psychology. The reason that happens, I think in the blink of an eye you switch into another universe and you don't realize it happened. If you're religious you call that a miracle. If you're a scientist you call that a time warp. And you just warp into another universe.

I'm not a solipsist and I also don't think its useful to think of this as a simulation but how do we know or at least have evidence that this not a Boltzmann Brain or a simulation?

As I use the terms, the omniverse is all that can exist; the multiverse is all that does exist – I suspect that these are the same, because that is the simplest answer.

Mathematically this produces the same results as classical quantum theory so there is no physical evidence for or against it relative to regular quantum theory. However it explains anthropocentric fine tuning, the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics, entanglement, and wave function collapse all with a single mechanism that provides logical, intuitive explanations rather than needing ad hoc assumptions, so in that sense it is simpler than the other theories that produce similar mathematical results.

My omniverse version is a simple explanation of entanglement, wave-function collapse, and universe fine-tuning.

I subscribe to multiverse theory, but a different flavor than the classic "every observation causes a splitting" nonsense. 
A multiverse solves the fine-tuning problem, and makes sense of quantum mechanics (both the apparent randomness, and the spooky action at a distance).

I have never found a testable prediction that my version of the multiverse makes that differs from the predictions that quantum mechanics makes. My version merely provides a simple, plausible explanation for: wave function "collapse" upon observation, the need to have an observer for a given "reality" to exist, and spooky action at a distance. fine-turing and the anthropic principle.
It also answers the physics question from an "exam" that I saw in my high school guidance counselor's office: "explain the universe in 25 words or less, and give two examples". My answer is: "everything that can exist always exists, and in some universes you realize this".
(the biology question was something like "write down a complete, balanced chemical equation for life").

The evidence for a multiverse is that it makes a lot of weird things in quantum mechanics intuitive, which is only indirect evidence.

Regarding multiverse theory, I am not a fan of the version that says that the universe splits every time you measure a probabilistic outcome. That is even more a case of the tail wagging the dog than the classical quantum theory that says that the wave function collapses when it is observed.

By multiverse I mean a multiverse where everything that can exist always exists.
In that case all possible outcomes always exist and when you make an observation or measurement you are merely determining which thread within the multiverse this particular thread of your consciousness finds itself on. Consider two entangled photons where they will be guaranteed to have opposite spins but quantum mechanics says their spins are not predetermined. In my version of multiverse theory, entanglement makes total sense – if you measure one photon and find out that you are in a universe where it is spin up, of course in that universe the other one is spin down – no spooky action at a distance needed all.
I'll just repeat Hitchens's razor - what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. Why should I believe simulation or multiverse theory over any of the other fantastical and 'scientific' explanations out there? The simplest explanation for quantum weirdness is that we do not adequately understand it. I again maintain that a theory must be testable in order to be scientific. Anything else is as good as spitballing in my view.
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

Enlightened
Oct 15, 2023
1,318
I'll just repeat Hitchens's razor - what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. Why should I believe simulation or multiverse theory over any of the other fantastical and 'scientific' explanations out there? The simplest explanation for quantum weirdness is that we do not adequately understand it. I again maintain that a theory must be testable in order to be scientific. Anything else is as good as spitballing in my view.

The mathematics behind it. Its not just a convenient idea. It actually is the conclusion of the mathematical physics. Things like Occam's Razor and alike are not true scientific principles so much as philosophy.
Mathematics is based on axioms rather.
 
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Celerity

Celerity

shape without form, shade without colour
Jan 24, 2021
2,733
The mathematics behind it. Its not just a convenient idea. It actually is the conclusion of the mathematical physics. Things like Occam's Razor and alike are not true scientific principles so much as philosophy.
Mathematics is based on axioms rather.
Not all mathematicians subscribe to it, and neither do all physicists.

It is a hypothesis without evidence.
 
DarkRange55

DarkRange55

Enlightened
Oct 15, 2023
1,318
Not all mathematicians subscribe to it, and neither do all physicists.

It is a hypothesis without evidence.
Its a (currently) untestable hypothesis but its (currently) where the math and physics have lead us…
Science is constantly revising itself though so who knows? The answers may came long after us 🤷‍♀️
Not all mathematicians subscribe to it, and neither do all physicists.

It is a hypothesis without evidence.
But it is prevailing among the top scientists in multiple fields, even ones that don't subscribe to string theory. But like I said, time will tell. I'm not saying its useful to think its all a dream but like Bill Hicks said, its just a ride!

 
PoorYorick

PoorYorick

Member
Jan 4, 2024
29
Second, what does living in a simulation really change about how I think about my life or reality? If I can't tell it's fake, what does it matter? Unless there is a more "real" universe to which I could travel, it is a moot point to me.

Some conslusions can be drawn. If all it's just a simulation, we don't need to care much about the beings inside nor about the outcome of it. I would even like to undermine the whole simulation, to show that ugly creator that they can't just use us as puppets and play with us. If I could convince all the people to suicide at the same time, that would be a great ending for this "world". And there's even a chance that we would win the game of worlds, the best mess ever seen :)

But as long as many of us stay here, we need to care about each other's happiness. Only if we all get out at the same time, it would be a good and harmless joke :)
 
MeaningDork

MeaningDork

If there's a will, there's a way.
Jan 14, 2024
63
Well, I'll be damned.
 

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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

Enlightened
Oct 15, 2023
1,318
Not all mathematicians subscribe to it, and neither do all physicists.

It is a hypothesis without evidence.
Hume and his discussion of the self being interpreted as a single entity, but not necessarily so in actuality. (we may actually be -- and from scientific evidence, most likely are -- a conglomeration of multiple fractured subconscious perspectives or the integral of a continuum of subconscious perspectives, of some combination of these artificially combined to be perceived by the over-conscious as a single one.*) Hume also points out that the outside world as being nothing certain except perceived stimuli; we perceive an outside world, but our only access is through these stimuli and reactions being perceived. We do not actually have any kind of direct access to an external world, merely a conduit through which information flows. The information could, in fact come from anywhere -- our own imaginations, a computer program, a deity, a shared dream, a reliving of memories. Not to get solipsistic.
Not all mathematicians subscribe to it, and neither do all physicists.

It is a hypothesis without evidence.
The evidence for it right now is math.

As for theory vs law vs hypothesis: I think of a "law" as a "what" and a theory as a "why" or a "how". Thus Newton's law of gravitation is a law because it says what happens, whereas Einstein's theory is a theory because it says how masses produce gravity. A theory is the highest level of explanation in science. A hypothesis is similar to an educated guess.

Math can have proofs because it does not have to deal with the reality of the universe, so its assumptions don't have external dependencies. You can prove something within a closed system of assumptions in science (basically reducing that part of science to mathematics), but you can't really be sure that your assumptions reflect the way the universe works.
 
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DEATH IS FREEDOM

DEATH IS FREEDOM

Death is the solution to unsolvable problems.
Sep 13, 2023
608
It feels like I am living far away from the real world in a simulation of hell: overpopulation, densely populated population, queues, fractions, pollution, wars, crimes, injusticies, noice, world poverty, starvation, loneleliness, meaninglessness, bullying, climate change, extinction of species, bad politics, sufferings, diseases, fear of old age, uncertainty about the future, own incurable health problems, unsympathetic relatives, the absence of euthanasia and the difficulty of overcoming the monster survival instinct.
 
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