SaSu on BBC News

[Jadzia]

I've been listening to about it on the radio and here is a link to an article.

BBC News - 'Failure to act' on suicide website linked to 50 UK deaths

'Failure to act' on suicide website linked to 50 UK deaths

Families are angry at the lack of action to shut it, despite multiple concerns from police and coroners.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[moondazed]

"Without those forums, I think my daughter would have struggled to find the information that she was looking for about how to die," Callie's mother Sarah told the BBC at the time

It's always tragic to hear about youth dying. I also think this information is out there either way…

Of course the article doesn't describe the actual reasons why these people sought suicide. More than likely it was due to material conditions and the difficulty of modern urban life, and not because a site brainwashed them.

 

[Amyend88]

I just read the article. The BBC used to be respected, but is now ridiculed, so they're words will have little influence. Besides, the police are overstretched and underresourced, so they won't be bothering to move this up the agenda any time soon..

 

[godsseepiestsoldier]

Kinda funny that they would rather blame a website thats helping people die peacfully rather than the atorcious uk mental health services, treatment of LGBTQ individuals by the goverment, cost of living and NHS treatment of cronic illnesses and a host of other problems that have been spiriling in british society

 

[Anon1337]

Remorse? What? For having provided a safe space to discuss suicide? People don't kill themselves because of this forum.

 

[Darkover]

britain a fucking shithole country no wonder people kill themselves

 

[lachrymost]

Will the suicidal person always be considered too dangerous to be permitted a voice?

 

[Forever Sleep]

I do feel sorry for the families of course. So many say their loved one would still be alive if it weren't for this site. For one, I'm not sure- if they were that desperate, I expect they would have simply used a well known and brutal method like jumping. You don't need the internet for that...

The information is available elsewhere. One of the first places I found out about SN was a police report (of all things!) They had even provided a picture of the kit they had ordered off the dark web, including the antiemetics they used.

On the other hand though- maybe there loved one would still be here- but- would they be ok? Or, would they be desperately unhappy and suffering? Do they really have so much faith in things like the mental healthcare system- especially in the UK? Do they really think life is a breeze and young people have the most brilliant opportunities and futures ahead of them. (As always- the focus was on young people...)

I hate the way these articles are always so surface level. Why did these people kill themselves? How long had they been suicidal for? What were the support systems like around them? Had they had any kind of treatment? Why did it fail?

Why aren't they more concerned that people want to kill themselves in the first place?!! Especially young people. Young people killing themselves clearly indicates that they don't want to be a part of the world that has been created for them. Why do you think that is? I wish a journalist would consider that one day.

My Mum died of natural causes when I was very young. When I used to get upset, my Dad would say- 'You couldn't wish her back as she was at the end. She was in so much pain. It would be selfish to wish her back in that state.' I guess families of suicides just don't understand how much pain that person was in to enable them to consider suicide. Maybe they truly think their loved one could have recovered. I wonder how likely that was though. Would it really not bother them that their loved one was in terrible pain- so long as they were still alive?

Besides that- yes- sites like these maybe give us the detail so that an attempt may be more likely to succeed. Again- would they prefer the alternative? We only maim ourselves? Is any form of life really preferable in their eyes?

Still- it doesn't help with the act itself. They can all be reassured that people are still taking an enormous risk when they attempt. Seeing as everything is so restricted- we have no idea if what we've purchased will do the job. It will probably still be terrifying and painful. That will still be enough to deter people. And others will fail with possibly horrible consequences. But- that's ok is it? They're still alive.

As predicted- they also only focus on demonizing the site- saying how everyone is encouraging everyone else to CTB. So many people here claim they are still alive because of this site. Because of the sense of community and support here. They seem happy to take that away without providing an alternative. Where else on the internet can we speak about suicide openly? Is that what they really want? To ban all talk of it in the hopes that will make it go away? To ensure people can only talk about it on helplines? Who are already overwhelmed and from what I've heard- are only really interested if you are about to attempt.

What I feel confident will happen will be that people- including minors will still kill theselves but- if they do manage to take the site down, they will feel utterly isolated and afraid before they do it.

A while back, a Mum of a daughter who had CTB came on here. She was incredible. She was actually grateful that her daughter had found some comfort at the end. She was so brave and understanding.

I could completely understand if their son or daughter was being bullied or coerced into it but I'd argue- that doesn't happen here. Plus- sorry but you don't just stumble onto a site discussing suicide thinking it was Facebook. I wonder if they think a site full of platitudes instead would have 'saved' their loved one. People come here to get away from that. Why can't they see that?

 

[Amyend88]

Here's Owen Patterson speaking, former Tory MP, whose wife frequented this site and took her own life over three years ago. She was again mentioned this morning on this BBC News article.

He takes the the usual 'all suicides are preventable' patronising tone. He trivialises his own wife's struggles, and says how her mind was influenced and poisoned by so called 'predators'.

He makes it all about those that are left behind, and not the pain 'the' person was in. I'm all for protecting loved ones, but by God, if you think anyone took that 'decision' lightly, based on a few clicks on a suicide site, then you're a naive as they come..

I should add that he was caught up in a corruption scandal, but you knew that already, being a Tory MP and all..

 

[princexhhn]

hate how they always demonize this site. Nobody is encouraging each other to ctb, just a judgement free space for people who already want to ctb. Plus theres literally even recovery forum and everything? personally havent really been in the recovery forum but yeah. where else are people like us supposed to go, every other place is super judgemental! Its even against the rules to encourage ctb so why are they even..

from a personal standpoint, this place is the only place i can talk freely. Ive been alone mostly, me and my wanting to ctb, and its nice to finally be in a community that wont judge or push the pro life thing in my face constantly. Its nice to have community.

 

[NoHorizon]

Just heard it on the radio and read the article, came straight here. It just made me feel so sad. Rather than any mention of suicide prevention by improving people's lives or increasing mental health support, it solely focused on banning this site to prevent suicide. What good will that do?

Sure, I've been able to get SN via this site but if I hadn't come here I'd have just jumped off Beachy Head anyway. I'd be dead either way but instead I have a peaceful method accessible and have stayed alive because I've been able to read posts from people experiencing similar issues and being able to talk about them without needing to filter what's said out of fear of repercussions.

The reality is people don't understand suicidal people and won't listen to them. Until they do, people will continue to kill themselves in any way they can.

 

[ctbestie]

hate how they always demonize this site. Nobody is encouraging each other to ctb, just a judgement free space for people who already want to ctb. Plus theres literally even recovery forum and everything? personally havent really been in the recovery forum but yeah. where else are people like us supposed to go, every other place is super judgemental! Its even against the rules to encourage ctb so why are they even..

from a personal standpoint, this place is the only place i can talk freely. Ive been alone mostly, me and my wanting to ctb, and its nice to finally be in a community that wont judge or push the pro life thing in my face constantly. Its nice to have community.

they're clowns honestly. this is the only place i can truly connect w others who share a similar struggle. i just joined recently but finding this site is def one of the nicest things ive stumbled upon so far.

 

[DeadWallflower]

People have been offing themselves long before this site existed and they will continue to do so. Why? Because there is no cure for suffering.

People want answers. Someone to blame. There is no answer and there is no one to blame. Death is apart of life. You can't stop the inevitable.

 

[Mr.Tristesse]

I do feel sorry for the families of course. So many say their loved one would still be alive if it weren't for this site.

Alive and in perpetual misery....

 

[Forever Sleep]

Alive and in perpetual misery....

Yeah- exactly... Do they really find that a preferable thought? I can't see how they could- if they really loved that person. I think they must either think that their loved one was experiencing some temporary psychosis- which must be harder to convince themselves of- if they had been suffering for a long period. Or- they must truly believe that their loved one could have recovered. Again- that's got to be hard to convince yourself of if the person had had plenty of recoveries and relapses. I don't know. It's hard to picture it from their point of view. Can a non suicidal person ever really understand someone with ideation?

 

[SpiritualDeath]

When will pro-lifers ever realize that shutting this website down won't prevent suicide? If anything this will only lead to people resorting to more violent and unreliable methods. If people want to die they'll find ways to die anyway.

If they really want to prevent suicide, how about doing something about this shithole reality that we're in? How about addressing the issues that are directly causing suffering? How about thinking more about how a child could suffer before bringing them into existence just so that they can play a role (as parents want them to play) in the parents' little games?

Nope, they won't. They'll always try to stand on the moral high ground. They'll always be the "good people" because they're pro-life, and when premature deaths happen, they blame the internet, the website, and the information.

 

[Foreverix]

The only predators I saw in the article were the journalists. The amount of blameshifting is remarkable as well.

Have they learned nothing from prohibition?

 

[Deleted member 65988]

Kinda funny that they would rather blame a website thats helping people die peacfully rather than the atorcious uk mental health services, treatment of LGBTQ individuals by the goverment, cost of living and NHS treatment of cronic illnesses and a host of other problems that have been spiriling in british society

It's always easier to target one specific source rather than look at a whole slew problems of why people end up thinking about ctb even without knowing this forum even exists.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Who would have guessed that the BBC could write an article containing even more misinformation than "We're being pressured into sex by some trans women"? I'm already working on a thread addressing very common smears and lies perpetrated by the media so I'll save my breath for now. It's not like this article contains any new talking points that haven't been addressed elsewhere already. The BBC certainly didn't disappoint, they're still a prime example of terrible journalism.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

If they really want to prevent suicide, how about doing something about this shithole reality that we're in? How about addressing the issues that are directly causing suffering? How about thinking more about how a child could suffer before bringing them into existence just so that they can play a role (as parents want them to play) in the parents' little games?

Unfortunately, with the way society is, that sort of thinking that just isn't cut out for many people to consider. I've always said that everytime someone does ctb, it's a reaction to how the world is, how so many people feel their pain won't be heard even if suicide prevention campaigns tell people to just reach out. No one's doing anything about the actual problems that afflict people so it's easier to blame it on info that's available on the internet.

Who would have guessed that the BBC could write an article containing even more misinformation than "We're being pressured into sex by some trans women"? I'm already working on a thread addressing very common smears and lies perpetrated by the media so I'll save my breath for now. It's not like this article contains any new talking points that haven't been addressed elsewhere already. The BBC certainly didn't disappoint, they're still a prime example of terrible journalism.

I always appreciate your threads on these, I did enjoy the SN hysteria too, how media was grossly sensationalized the method and how many people were actually took it.

 

[antilife]

I find it extremely annoying that it's never about our side of things and that there is no understanding whatsoever for us. It's just wrong for Pro lifers, no discussion. These families might be very sad about the loss but thats always for egoistic reasons in my opinion. They miss the person, even though the person was nothing else but suffering. They are missing a version of them that didn't even exist anymore. They think it can be fine again, and it can be for some people. But for others it can't. I wonder if the point of view On suicide will ever change. It just has to. It's a shame that we're portrayed like some disgusting people where in fact it's help on this site, help they would never understand.

 

[lucyna]

i will start taking the bbc seriously once they bring my trans siblings back to life, hypocritical fucks

 

[carac]

Imagine blaming a website instead of shitty society/health care/parenting

 

[zeek]

So many say their loved one would still be alive if it weren't for this site

if it wasnt this site it would be another
theres no stopping these methods from being on the internet

 

[NoLoveNoHope]

Every single one of these articles are a joke, if you actually wanted to stop the site you wouldn't talk about it instead of giving it free promotion.

I just want to highlight a few things because I find them personally ridiculous.

There's the collage of 9 people who visited the forum with their full names. Has nobody considered that they almost definitely didn't want to be used on a terribly written article for pure sympathy points? In my eyes it's very disrespectful to the dead, I'd be rolling in my grave if I was ever featured in one of these.

"We're in Huntsville, Alabama and that, we think, is where Lemarcus Small lives. We've been waiting here all day and seen no sign at all, but we really want to try to talk to him. "

We wait into night and for two more full days. Nothing. Until suddenly there he is. At last, Lamarcus Small.

Note: The camera points to Lamarcus while positioned in a bush.

"Hi Lamarcus, how are you? I'm Angus from the BBC. I want to talk to you about the suicide forum you set up. You know hundreds of people have died after going on that. Children are even going on that. Have you got anything to say to the relatives of the dead?"

Lamarcus now shuts the front door.

"Lamarcus, surely you've got the guts to come out and talk to me?" (silence for around 5 seconds) "So it looks like Lamarcus has no remorse, no regret and nothing to say to the relatives of the dead."

Three days they waited outside his house! He doesn't even have anything to do with the forum anymore.

This entire article just feels so wrong and so misguided. They say they did their research but haven't done their research on these types of articles in the past spiking registry queues and having the opposite effect.

I'm not familiar with UK law but that definitely feels like stalking to me. The cameraman who filmed Lamarcus definitely felt emotionally charged just the fact they waited 3 days for a minute video is just absurd to me.

 

[SpiritualDeath]

No one's doing anything about the actual problems that afflict people so it's easier to blame it on info that's available on the internet.

Sadly it's true, and I would say it's because people don't actually want the problems (at their source) to go away, bc the things that are inevitably causing problems can benefit them in some ways. It's a whole "the problems can go to bother others as long as I can get what I want from these things" kind of mindset.

Procreation is such a good example for it. They know that procreation WILL impose suffering on their children, and their children WILL cause suffering to others (at some point in their life to some extent), but the parents themselves still somehow benefit from procreating. That's why they don't stop. That's why they'll never admit that the root cause of the minor's suicide is that they created a child that ended up suffering so immensely and being pushed to the point of suicide.

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of "guilt tripping" people (calling people names like immoral) under any circumstance. However, if you choose to participate in a faulty system (do things that cause problems), it's stupid to expect everything to go 100% your way, isn't it?

 

[Mr.Tristesse]

Yeah- exactly... Do they really find that a preferable thought? I can't see how they could- if they really loved that person. I think they must either think that their loved one was experiencing some temporary psychosis- which must be harder to convince themselves of- if they had been suffering for a long period. Or- they must truly believe that their loved one could have recovered. Again- that's got to be hard to convince yourself of if the person had had plenty of recoveries and relapses. I don't know. It's hard to picture it from their point of view. Can a non suicidal person ever really understand someone with ideation?

I feel that people on general do eventually come to accept that their loved ones did what they felt they had to do. Of course that's not a given and it can take a long time. Where there is a factor like SS they can easily get stuck on blaming someone else and holding them responsible. For example, I looked up a company that used to sell SN and on Facebook one woman left a review saying they had killed her mother. Of course they did no such thing. Maybe it is easier to think that people were manipulated or goaded instead of facing the fact that little Tommy deliberately chose to leave them.

That said I don't think it can be denied that this forum *does* make it easier to act on suicidal thoughts. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't a good solution either.

Where is the focus on the lives saved, either people who found healing through community or who were deterred from making terrible attempts?

 

[Darkover]

Authorities 'failed to act' on warnings about site promoting suicide

The online forum has been connected to the suicides of at least 50 people in the UK and now the families of victims are demanding the Government hold an inquiry to prevent future deaths.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Tesha]

Dear BBC journalist(s)

You're undoubtedly reading this thread, self praising for having your Editor print one of your stories. I suspect that to you, this will be an achievement in your professional career. But, is it really an accomplishment for the thousands of individuals that are living in perpetual misery, unable to access the care, treatment and support they need? I know the state of the mental health system in the UK isn't sexy reading, and doesn't get the reaction or sensational headlines that a forum like this does, but is that a reason to not objectively portray both sides of the story?

I understand your inability to comprehend the supportive nature of this website as I suspect you've only used it for reporting purposes and not for its positive potential. I have been a member since 2020. I would be dead if this forum didn't exist. I've been in the UK health system for many years and I've never had the acceptance, positive influences and supportive treatment as I've received and read here. Surely that is something that may need exploring for its life saving qualities? If the very people who are present on this site aren't the ones who know the most about the failings in real life supportive care, then who does? It's called peer supporting and it's actually a thing many institutions put in place to learn. Maybe that's a perspective you should consider - the opposite view to the majority non-suicidal people. You speak for and represent the voices of underdogs in the many tragic wars currently unfolding around the world. Well, this is my war. I am suicidal and battling for my voice to be heard amongst the cacophony of sound telling me suicide is wrong and trying to silence me.

You now need to make a choice. You can stop where you have or perhaps continue, and languish in your self approval and possibly narrow thinking. Or, you can maybe try to embrace the other side - as any good investigative journalist should do - and understand both sides. I don't speak on behalf of SaSu or anyone else, as everyone is an individual. But, I did contact you anonymously via your website today. If you read the BBC comments, you'll know who I am as I used the same phrase in both this post and my comment. I am possibly more unique than many others in my ability to remain anonymous in this process as I have reported sexual abuse to the police and used this forum as support. I'm therefore covered by the anonymity rights of a sexual abuse victim and it would be illegal for you to disclose who I am. Isn't it a sad state of affairs, a poor reflection on how bad our care system has become that I'm having to use sexual abuse protection laws to enable me to talk openly about suicide? Think about for that moment and what that is clearly speaking to you about.

You could use your linguistic skills to help fix the underlying issues. Wouldn't that give you a bigger buzz?

 

[Deleted member 65988]

For example, I looked up a company that used to sell SN and on Facebook one woman left a review saying they had killed her mother. Of course they did no such thing. Maybe it is easier to think that people were manipulated or goaded instead of facing the fact that little Tommy deliberately chose to leave them

Yeah, in some cases, I've seen people say that these chemical companies that sold sn probably knew what the intentions of that person were for the SN but how could they possibly know. I guess it does help with the grieving process, to pass blame wherever they can rather look at the fact that their loved one chose to actually leave themselves.