Resource Results of CO generation in car test

[IndictEvolution]

Might try and do another test tomorrow where I attempt to increase the rate of gas production by setting up some kind of non flame heating apparatus (CO is flammable).

The max theoretical PPM that could be achieved with 20 ml of 95% formic acid (19 grams) in my ~100 cubic foot car would be ~3000 PPM. This is of course assuming the gas is produced rapidly enough that it doesn't have time to dissipate, but also assumes ALL the formic acid is dehydrated by the sulfuric acid. So obviously you'd never expect to actually reach this number (assuming the gas is evenly mixed in the air). The max PPM reached in this test was about 300 after about 8 minutes. So, theoretically, if you used 900 ml instead of 20, you could reach ~12,000 PPM based on this test. This of course is assuming this scales linearly, which it probably does not. Likely you'd end up with much higher than 12,000 PPM, especially if you setup a heating apparatus to increase rate of CO production and you did your best to seal the vehicle.

Full video:

(Backup download for video in case YT takes it down)

Here's a chart of the PPM over time in the video.


6 minutes after gas generation started.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

thanks for the test and video. i had no idea how to do a test or what % co was really produced.

but now i do have ideas.

i trust real tests and we can see the difference between the theoretical and real tests.

you're talking 900 ml basically a liter of formic acid. but i don't know if i will be able to heat it.

i think a larger container an HDPE garbage can or at least a 5 gallon HDPE bucket as a reaction mixing chamber.

but i think with 900 ML the foaming might foam out of the 5 gallon bucket ? so a larger garbage can is better imo . i think the reaction being contained inside the garbage can is better

1.5 liters formic acid in a car 18,000 ppm in 8 minutes , 10 minutes to oblivion

 

[RoseGirl]

Pretty intetesting!
Are the fumes from it palpable? I personally find smoke produced from charcoal to be very calming, i can't imagine sulfuric acid fumes to be as pleasant ( - w - )
Uhm the video voice over is like really nice, it reminds me of codys lab.

 

[IndictEvolution]

thanks for the test and video. i had no idea how to do a test or what % co was really produced.

but now i do have ideas.

i trust real tests and we can see the difference between the theoretical and real tests.

you're talking 900 ml basically a liter of formic. but i don't know if i will be able to heat it.

i think a larger container an HDPE garbage can or at least a 5 gallon HDPE bucket as a reaction mixing chamber.

One idea would be to have an inner and outer container. In the outer container, you'd fill it with some hot water, maybe 90C, and that would help keep the reaction heated and increase the rate at which CO is produced. The same outer container would also catch anything that foams over. Obviously only issue with this is that the water will not remain at 90C forever, but it would probably keep the reacted heated long enough. You'd also have to consider the thermal conductivity of the inner container's material, and the surface area to inner volume ratio. This method of heating it would work best for smaller containers, but not great for larger ones.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

One idea would be to have an inner and outer container. In the outer container, you'd fill it with some hot water, maybe 90C, and that would help keep the reaction heated and increase the rate at which CO is produced. The same outer container would also catch anything that foams over. Obviously only issue with this is that the water will not remain at 90C forever, but it would probably keep the reacted heated long enough. You'd also have to consider the thermal conductivity of the inner container's material, and the surface area to inner volume ratio. This method of heating it would work best for smaller containers, but not great for larger ones.

yeah imo an outer HDPE garbage can is the outer container to catch the foaming out

imo containers have to be HDPE because chemical companies use bottles made of HDPE for formic acid storage

HDPE is high density polyethylene, a plastic . can't be just polyethylene but has to be high density

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Cleaning-Trash-Recycling-Trash-Cans/HDPE-High-Density-Polyethylene/N-5yc1vZcb2gZ1z182wx

 

[IndictEvolution]

Pretty intetesting!
Are the fumes from it palpable? I personally find smoke produced from charcoal to be very calming, i can't imagine sulfuric acid fumes to be as pleasant ( - w - )
Uhm the video voice over is like really nice, it reminds me of codys lab.

I'd just buy a half piece respirator and some 3M acid gas cartridges to be safe. But I was surprised that the fumes from the formic acid were not as bad as I thought (though keep in mind this was only 20 ml). The sulfuric acid isn't really an issue here since it's vapor pressure is quite low at these temperatures.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I'd just buy a half piece respirator and some 3M acid gas cartridges to be safe. But I was surprised that the fumes from the formic acid were not as bad as I thought (though keep in mind this was only 20 ml). The sulfuric acid isn't really an issue here since it's vapor pressure is quite low at these temperatures.

which cartridge will protect against acid fumes ? but wil the cartridge still let co in ?

 

[IndictEvolution]

which cartridge will protect against acid fumes ? but wil the cartridge it still let co in ?

3M's 6002 & 6003 will both work fine. Here is 6002 for cheap. They send 2 btw, so like $7 for 2. Real good deal.

Amazon.com