Venting Religious people are stupid

[Aergia]

I'm no fan of religion either, but no, they're not. At least, not all of them. They're just stuck in an ideological prison. Religious beliefs are often hereditary and if you were indoctrinated sufficiently when you were young you're pretty much doomed, regardless of how smart you are in the conventional sense.

I've said this elsewhere, but if you were raised in a religious environment, beliefs that seem absurd to an outsider capable of critical thought become part of your internal model of reality early on. You may critically examine what you learn in later years, and the older/smarter you are, the better you'll be at distinguishing what's true from what's not. But ideas that were instilled in you long before your cognitive faculties developed—ideas that have, again, had time to cement themselves as part of your fundamental model of reality—are impervious to critical thought because you'd never think to subject them to it. That's why intelligent religious people exist—because an aptitude for logical thinking generally isn't enough to escape an ideological prison.

I agree that the average theist might not be the best critical thinker but if you want to steelman the religious position you're probably better off reading/listening to theist apologists/philosophers.

I hate the concept because it convinces people they know the answers to things which they really don't. This stifles learning... When you can say "I don't know let's find out!" then you have a chance to learn something. When you say "the magic man in the sky did it!" then there is no motivation to learn anything new. It is very sad.

I really feel you on this though. One of the things I hate most about religion.

 

[AbusedInnocent]

Well this thread got quite heated.

I have to agree, if you are religious because you were raised that way and never questioned it you're not necessarily stupid, but if you did some research and denied the scientific, logical and moral reasons why your religion is false then you're certainly stupid, because it's objectively wrong no matter how you look at it.

 

[Heavy Rain]

Well this thread got quite heated.

I have to agree, if you are religious because you were raised that way and never questioned it you're not necessarily stupid, but if you did some research and denied the scientific, logical and moral reasons why your religion is false then you're certainly stupid, because it's objectively wrong no matter how you look at it.

Can you share the scientific, logical and moral reasons that proves religion to be objectively wrong?

 

[sos]

can you provide me with evidence that there's no god / heaven / hell?

exactly

case closed

 

[Heavy Rain]

can you provide me with evidence that there's no god / heaven / hell?

exactly

case closed

If this is a snarky response to my comment, I've never made the suggestion that the "case is closed"

I'm simply asking him to back up his statement

 

[sos]

If this is a snarky response to my comment, I've never made the suggestion that the "case is closed"

I'm simply asking him to back up his statement

no i just read the main post and replied

so no worries my guy idk what post ur talking about . . .

 

[Heavy Rain]

no i just read the main post and replied

so no worries my guy idk what post ur talking about . . .

Oh okay :)

 

[Forever Sleep]

Don't you find physics and maths kind of abstract in a way though?

E = mc²

It's weird that certain things in this universe comply to a bunch of symbols- letters and numbers that we've asigned meaning to. As in- letters and numbers and symbols don't physically exist. We use them to signify other things.

I can see why maybe it's a more reliable way of trying to understand something if stuff that happens regularly seems to follow the same rigid pattern. But I suppose I've never really warmed to maths or physics. How do people even go about working out equations like that?!! It's massively impressive but really just as mystical as religion to me!

In terms of what they are though- a way of trying to understand the world in which we find ourselves- they're both kind of trying to do the same thing. Except one is more narrative and mystical and the other is more analytical.

Where I definitely agree though is that I think religions can be very manipulative and harmful. Plus, it gets to a point where it's impossible to argue sensibly. They are always going to hold the Ace because- if a question becomes too difficult, they can always just say it's God's will. Who are we to question a God? Maybe we can't even begin to understand the way God thinks and all that. I agree, it can be hugely frustrating.

 

[sserafim]

can you provide me with evidence that there's no god / heaven / hell?

exactly

case closed

Can you provide me with evidence that there is god / heaven / hell?

 

[Steff1337]

I'm an Orthodox Christian (in a nontypical way), and I don't think that I'm that much stupid.

Some of the greatest minds thru history have been more or less religious.

 

[Sunset Limited]

I believe this existence is completely random. If there is a god, I think it is unlikely that he would be intelligent enough to create the universe and living things, yet sadistic and psychotic enough to watch them eat each other alive. If he really exists, he should be called an asshole, not a god. It makes me sick to my stomach that people kneel to power. This existence is a shithole.

 

[GuessWhosBack]

The correct logical position to be in is to be agnostic. People who misunderstand logic think otherwise.

Understand that in formal logic, it is equally absurd to suggest no higher being exists because no evidence supports it, as it is absurd to suggest that higher beings exist because no evidence supports their nonexistence.

They are both leaps of faith.

 

[AbusedInnocent]

Can you share the scientific, logical and moral reasons that proves religion to be objectively wrong?

Speaking of abrahamic religions here are a few:

Scientific:
Evolution and the fossil record disprove creationism and show that homo-sapiens have existed for over 200,000 years.
The elements that form planets were created through nuclear fusion inside stars, so it's impossible that planets were created before before stars.
The universe was created and has existed for 14 billion years just for some humans that evolved 200,000 years ago on a random planet?
200+ billion galaxies were created just for us?

Logical:
Epicurean paradox
Omnipotence paradox (debatable but I think it stands)
God creates us to worship him when he has no need for worship, creates us to test us when he's all-knowing and knows the outcome before the test.

Moral:
Abrahamic religions are quite incompatible with human rights.
God punishes all of humanity because Adam and Eve failed a rigged test, obviously God is all-knowing and all-powerful so he wired their brains in such a way that they would fail the test and knew that beforehand.
God causes a flood that wipes out all of humanity including children and elderly, punishing everyone for the actions of a few.

I think these reasons alone are enough.

 

[sos]

Can you provide me with evidence that there is god / heaven / hell?

hello there, judge sos is back with some clarification

the case was closed due a lack of evidence when it comes to god / heaven / hell existing and(!!) not existing

in other words this thread is pretty useless and it was simply the only decision for me to close this case to avoid any further unnecessary discussions

im a judge without power so i cant actually put an end to it tho. . . .

//
i'm not a believer nor a non-believer
i'm a 'who cares lol !'

people gotta believe in what they wanna believe. i couldn't care less if there is a god or if there isn't a god

i was honestly wondering what tickled the poster's ball to post a topic with such a title, calling religious people stupid

could've worded it different or maybe . . . not post a topic at all ? ? ?

discussions regarding this matter will lead nowhere bc yah no evidence

hereby i will also provide everyone with a too long didnt read . . . . tldr;

the case has been closed AGAIN

and hereby a 'still too long didnt read' (stdr);

pointless convo

 

[Heavy Rain]

Speaking of abrahamic religions here are a few:

Scientific:
Evolution and the fossil record disprove creationism and show that homo-sapiens have existed for over 200,000 years.
The elements that form planets were created through nuclear fusion inside stars, so it's impossible that planets were created before before stars.
The universe was created and has existed for 14 billion years just for some humans that evolved 200,000 years ago on a random planet?
200+ billion galaxies were created just for us?

Logical:
Epicurean paradox
Omnipotence paradox (debatable but I think it stands)
God creates us to worship him when he has no need for worship, creates us to test us when he's all-knowing and knows the outcome before the test.

Moral:
Abrahamic religions are quite incompatible with human rights.
God punishes all of humanity because Adam and Eve failed a rigged test, obviously God is all-knowing and all-powerful so he wired their brains in such a way that they would fail the test and knew that beforehand.
God causes a flood that wipes out all of humanity including children and elderly, punishing everyone for the actions of a few.

I think these reasons alone are enough.

A lot of arguments against literal interpretation of genesis. But not against religion itself.
But you weren't claiming just to have arguments, but proof.
Moral arguments arguments are not proof. Especially if you're an atheistic moral relativist

Calling something "objectively wrong no matter how you look at it" is also not a very scientific approach

But we can have a discussion on your arguments and the evidence presented

 

[Kalista]

i was honestly wondering what tickled the poster's ball to post a topic with such a title, calling religious people stupid

because religion is used to run people's lives. believing in it blindly without constantly asking why?.
a whole country being run by religion is dangerous in that it creates blind followers easily manipulated as long as they share the same religious beliefs.

it's been centuries and no one was ever able to provide proof that any of it exists. only their blind faith based on evidence that was just created by human beings -- which means they are social constructs, made up garbage that people ended up following and believing throughout history and have even killed 'non-believers' for it (the crusade). another reason why religion is dangerous.

discussions regarding this matter will lead nowhere bc yah no evidence

this type of discussion/belief, as stupid as it can be, is very necessary to be challenged. religion promotes close-mindedness, intolerance, discrimination, resistance to change, power abuse and more.
when it comes to 'intolerance and discrimination,' think of homosexuality and same-sex marriage.
'resistance to change' in that they fail to accept there's absolutely nothing fucking wrong with homosexuality and marrying the same gender. it's just the words on some book telling them that it is.
in terms of 'power abuse,' think about the government or politicians using religion as a way to gain trust/votes for their own interests to exploit the ignorant -- or religious leaders controlling people by inflicting irrational fear towards whatever god they believe in. such as 'you'll go to hell if you stop being good' nonsense.

while there are religious communities that are far more tame than this, they're still believing in something that has no proof of existing. believing in a book that some humans wrote/revised over the course of centuries, with different people interpreting the meaning of whatever scripture to fit their own beliefs.

 

[sugarb]

I believe in something waiting for me after death, and I wouldn't consider myself brainwashed or stupid (though that's up for individual interpretation, I suppose). I wouldn't consider the majority of religious people to be stupid/brainwashed either.

Most believe so they can live more happily, grieve more easily, fit in with their community, and die semi-peacefully believing they get to see grandma again. Why do you think Christians still cry at funerals despite their loved ones being in heaven? Logically they just wouldn't care, right?

In my experience growing up in church, the only religious people who genuinely think their beliefs are complete factual truth have a disorder/complex of some kind and/or are children. That's the brainwashed/stupid type and they're not very common.

Most fall back on the "you can't prove god DOESN'T exist" line because they simply can't or don't want to live without the mental safety net of religion. So- when there's brainwashing, it's usually self-inflicted. That's an illusion, sure, but I wouldn't call fooling oneself into a more comfortable way of thinking "stupid", especially if it overall improves their lives, yes?

like, I feel you're just misunderstanding or not acknowledging why religion exists. it's a social construct to keep us sane and semi-orderly, a coping mechanism for intelligence. Without some kind of religion to say "the sky is a giant curtain, we have to not steal from each other because God said so, and when we die we are reborn" we'd be having existential crises all the time and killing ourselves out of despair over our children dying. Nowadays we have science to inform us of the nature of reality but when the scientific answer to death is "nothingness, your loved ones are gone forever" religion still has purpose in comforting the dying and the grieving. And again, that's not stupid. it's delusion for the sake of comfort. Religion is the communal version of that delusion. more people agreeing helps reinforce the pleasant lie in one's own head.

 

[lonely&trapped.]

Can you share the scientific, logical and moral reasons that proves religion to be objectively wrong?

Well, how it influences people to do bad things for one, such as "conversion therapy" that came about from right-wing religious groups that believe you can just pray the gay away and abuse children if they are afraid of the youth being anything but straight.

The Lies and Dangers of "Conversion Therapy"

"Reparative" or "conversion" therapy is a dangerous practice that targets LGBTQ youth and seeks to change their sexual or gender identities.

www.hrc.org

Scientifically and logically, a god does not exist. Religion solely was made for people to cope with the pointlessness of human existence so they didn't go mad/and or become depressed due to having to face the truth that human existence has no greater fantastical purpose.

 

[Darkover]

I believe this existence is completely random. If there is a god, I think it is unlikely that he would be intelligent enough to create the universe and living things, yet sadistic and psychotic enough to watch them eat each other alive. If he really exists, he should be called an asshole, not a god. It makes me sick to my stomach that people kneel to power. This existence is a shithole.

agreed