Discussion Predestiny

[Forever Sleep]

I can't say I've ever been a big fan of the idea of predestiny because I feel like it's an easy opt out of responsibility/ accountability.

Still- for people who do believe in it- I'm curious. Do you think it's set in stone? Someone's whole life is predetermined and they will take that course no matter what? Or, can you divert away from your destiny by making other choices? What happens when we don't fulfil our destiny? Can it be someone's destiny to commit suicide or commit murder even? Is anyone then really guilty of anything? Should they be commended for achievements if they were destined to do it anyway?

 

[jar-baby]

I consider myself a determinist. It's Robert Sapolsky's stance that appeals to me. Sapolsky's a neurobiologist and argues that how we make any given decision is determined by our genes, hormones, neurotype, culture, upbringing, epigenetic inheritance and other factors that were ultimately out of our control. We do what we desire, so we feel like we're in control, but we never chose our desires, so it was never possible for us to have acted differently from how we did.

One corollary of this is that no one is truly deserving of blame or commendation in the abstract sense, but we should still use blame and commendation instrumentally. For instance, if someone commits a crime, it arguably isn't their fault because they couldn't have acted differently—but they should still be punished, because their being punished acts as an effector in the bigger scheme of things—it prevents them from reoffending, and more importantly, it prevents others from offending because they've seen the consequences of doing so. The same goes for achievements—if giving verbal praise and other rewards incentivises people to do good things, we should do so. I think the same principle applies to oneself—the instinctive feelings of pride or guilt that follow after you do something good or bad act as effectors themselves, so you shouldn't try to avoid those feelings or shirk personal responsibility on account of determinism. I think you'd find it hard to do, anyway. The illusion of free will is an effector too.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

That's question that is pretty difficult to be answered. Idk whether there is destiny or not or if there is a power that knows everything about each human what will happen to them - if that is the case we will never know and as we are inside the "simulation" it's pretty much impossible to discover sth that is "outside of the simulation". Whatever "luck" is - if there is an infinite amount of time everything is possible. Is it then "luck"? We humans ans every living creature does not have an infinite amount of time.

In my case I'm wondering y my life crashed in early 40's - was it just about luck or - if sth controlled my mind - I simply made the exact opposite decisions than the ones that would have been the right ones from today's POV.

But then - the decisions I made could have been the right ones from the viewpoint of "destiny" - yet, I can't see any benefits in that bc it made my life terrible and I ended up here, and was so close to end my life bc of all the things that went wrong and caused me so much suffering.

Was it destiny that was predetermined or was it just bad luck with a 50/50 chance?

 

[BruhXDDDDD]

Oh, absolutely. I don't consider it a cop out, but a different frame for regarding everything. Instead of arbitrary western ideas like "deserving", "forgiving", and so on I think it would be much more ethical for people to see through all the horseshit and only think in terms of protecting people, enforcing rules, fixing people's misfunctioning minds, etc. At the end of it all I'm glad suicide is a last resort option for those who are trapped.

On another note, I always find it funny how angry people online tend to do similarly evil things. The guy who is angry about some abuse case actively enjoys the exploitation of underpaid people in other parts of the world without even attempting to do better, or the person who is angry at some animal abuse case refuses the small self-sacrifice of not eating meat. Ultimately, I wonder if it takes evil to know evil. How the hell am I supposed to judge some child rapist when I don't even have it in me to do something that awful? Their brain is practically alien to the rest of us. I know I don't have any of the answers but I'm sure as hell angry person #467 in the reddit comments section doesn't either, no matter how correct they think they are or how much they get jerked off for it. I dunno what I want. Maybe just a little more humility, or the most basic appreciation for being born with fewer defects. Maybe a stronger desire to have a world that doesn't create these people instead of wanting to crush them when they inevitably pop up. I can't stop myself from empathizing with these people however much other people tell me to and it drives me nuts. Even when I get my own life together it doesn't stop.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

It's nobody's destiny to complete suicide but it is their destiny for it to be the best option.

 

[avoid]

I can't say I've ever been a big fan of the idea of predestiny because I feel like it's an easy opt out of responsibility/ accountability.

I agree.
You don't know what is to come regardless of whether everything is determined in advance.
So I have difficulties with understand people who use the Predeterminism argument to justify their actions.
I see it as an excuse.
That is not take a stance for or against Predeterminism.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I strongly believe in determinism, it's just frustrating because it cannot be tested.

 

[enduringwinter]

I think yes, our fates are set in stone, but not in a determinism way and rather in the way that it's impossible to rise above your circumstances. Yes you hear inspirational stories all the time but when you look at it, they always have some kind of luck or privilege that enabled them to overcome some difficulties; and even then their results are hardly enviable, they are absolutely in pain. Speaking as someone who has strived to live way beyond my means my whole life, it has been the worst hell.