Practical questions about sealing the mask on the 'Debreather' Nitzschke is selling soon

[Mm80]

What is the amitriptyline cocktail? How did you get the amitriptyline? I have SN but meh....I dunno about it...

Amitriptyline cock tail is ... anti enemics like with sn method.
8gms of amitryptilyne, (trycilic anti depressant) and a very high dosage of one or 2 benzos.
Amitriptiline is the lethal drug as its a sodium channel blocker, which slowy stops tbe heart.
The benzos are used to keep you asleep to make it peaceful.
Advantages are its reliable if done right and peaceful.
Disadvantages are it takes a while to die, up to 24hrs so rescue can be an issue.
Also obtaining the lethal amounts of drugs. Docs are reluctant to prescribe amitryptilyne due to its toxic effects in od. Plus getting the amount of benzos takes time.
I had to buy from abroad and ship to the uk , which is legal with ami, but not with benzos as they are a class c drug here.

 

[enjolras]

Inert gas asphyxiation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For what it's worth, some film evidence found of sudden hypoxia through Helium



I'm unsure what is observed to be convulsions. To me, it could simply look like disturbed / loss of coordination (another symptom of oxygen deprivation) during an escape behavior. Thoughts ?

Anyway, I'd like to figure out if uncontrolled body movements are also a possibility to happen when the O2 concentration drop is progressive like with the Debreather. Since there are concerns of the face mask seal, I'm telling myself the setting and close environnement could really matter

https://www.dignifieddying.com/publicaties/EN/2006%20Guide%20to%20Self-Chosen%20and%20Humane%20Death.pdf

From the 2006 book, comments on the DeBreather invention






Acknowledged the design has been improved since then, nobody has used the new version. The PPH admits levels of uncertainty regarding real practice.

 

[enjolras]

For instance, the PPH states that the exit bag method is unsuited for those with respiratory disabilities because O2 residues can maintain in the lungs, resulting in some patient's distress fighting against the unit in place, leading to interruption. How does the normal breathing slow process of the Debreather compares ?


Additional remarks made from NuTech themselves back in the 2000s (link inside the PPH)

(PDF) Ogden, R. D (2010). The debreather: A report on euthanasia and suicide assistance using adapted scuba technology. Death Studies, 34, 291-317

PDF | In response to the general prohibition of euthanasia and assisted suicide, some right-to-die activists have developed non-medical methods to... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

I encourage to read the whole report, not parts, to build yourself either confidence or doubt about the current state of affairs.
Questions arise from other extracts as well









While this info is not hidden and can be consulted externally, many won't take the time and efforts but rely on the condensed authoritative guidelines to try it on their own. I call it obscurantism. The knowledge from experience is there. Nitschke is aware. More open discussion could have been put out in the open now. Instead, a rating of unknown is simplifying the method, waiting for clarification during monetized updates ? Why the highlighted content is never emphasized in the PPH chapter, while it shows expectations by which parts could go wrong. I find it uncaring that the new device is invited to be tested merely as theory without warning notices, calling out pioneer lab rats to find out the optimal protocol by trial and error.

Conclusion :
* are we really sure the new Debreather is suitable solo, without assistance ?
* is there a favored body position / setting to undergo, to avoid interference of eventual body convulsions plus object colision so the mask stays still, not hit then displaced after unconsciousness transitioning (that could make death ineffective or worse, brain injury)
* for it to be peaceful and reliable, should you prior drug yourself, to experience early sleep in order to avoid distresful symptoms from slow not abrupt O2 drop, or just time stress / second thoughts versus fighting back reflexes ?
* if so, calling out the drug experts, what would be the recommended meds cocktail nowadays ? that is with N out of the question. Flunitrazepam looks like a strong sedative / anesthetic, known as a date rape drug, prolly hard to get, only available on prescription ? Dose ? Extra ? Alternatives ? ...goal : keep enough time to assembly the final parts and apply the mask properly without help before drifting asleep (long text and video instructions available on the R2D website)

Feel welcomed to bring about arguments against over-worrying parts, cause in contrast, the PPH makes it look like very straight forward, a different stance than in the past... Thanks in advance for your views.

 

[enjolras]

Guessing here are other cases of sleepy clients who had the mask applied afterwards with external help, as described earlier.

Spoiler: We're left with a positive note

The degree of cynical distrust has not deteriorated in 25 years amongst the discoverers of the right-to-die movement lol



The new design awaits... Be the one and report ? Thx!

 

[r2d2020]

My hypoxia device is fully tested. I would say this is exciting news, but that would be weird. I am satisfied with the device and a bit shocked at how well this method works.

Here are the details. I wore the mask for approximately 3 minutes, in that time my SpO2 (blood oxygen saturation) dropped from 99% to 70%. My O2 level remained at 98-96% until minute 1:30, after that it dropped rapidly. The pulse oximeter I am using was kind enough to alert me (beeps) when the level dropped below 80% I began to feel light headed around at 75% and took the mask off at 70%.

My breathing was shallow and relaxed, the air was starting to get a bit warm and humidity increased to a noticeable, yet not uncomfortable level. This is expected since it's a closed system. The air passing through the soda lime had a slight odor, although it wasn't unpleasant or irritating. I was careful to remove fine particles before loading the device and added a fine mesh filter to remove any stray particles.

Took this photo at minute 2:30, oxygen level at 76% and dropped to 70% 30 seconds later! The right number (82)is my pulse which was around 62 when I started, elevated but not a concern.

For instance, the PPH states that the exit bag method is unsuited for those with respiratory disabilities because O2 residues can maintain in the lungs, resulting in some patient's distress fighting against the unit in place, leading to interruption. How does the normal breathing slow process of the Debreather compares ?


Additional remarks made from NuTech themselves back in the 2000s (link inside the PPH)

(PDF) Ogden, R. D (2010). The debreather: A report on euthanasia and suicide assistance using adapted scuba technology. Death Studies, 34, 291-317

PDF | In response to the general prohibition of euthanasia and assisted suicide, some right-to-die activists have developed non-medical methods to... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

View attachment 29240

View attachment 29241

View attachment 29242

I encourage to read the whole report, not parts, to build yourself either confidence or doubt about the current state of affairs.
Questions arise from other extracts as well

View attachment 29247

View attachment 29248

View attachment 29253

View attachment 29254

While this info is not hidden and can be consulted externally, many won't take the time and efforts but rely on the condensed authoritative guidelines to try it on their own. I call it obscurantism. The knowledge from experience is there. Nitschke is aware. More open discussion could have been put out in the open now. Instead, a rating of unknown is simplifying the method, waiting for clarification during monetized updates ? Why the highlighted content is never emphasized in the PPH chapter, while it shows expectations by which parts could go wrong. I find it uncaring that the new device is invited to be tested merely as theory without warning notices, calling out pioneer lab rats to find out the optimal protocol by trial and error.

Conclusion :
* are we really sure the new Debreather is suitable solo, without assistance ?
* is there a favored body position / setting to undergo, to avoid interference of eventual body convulsions plus object colision so the mask stays still, not hit then displaced after unconsciousness transitioning (that could make death ineffective or worse, brain injury)
* for it to be peaceful and reliable, should you prior drug yourself, to experience early sleep in order to avoid distresful symptoms from slow not abrupt O2 drop, or just time stress / second thoughts versus fighting back reflexes ?
* if so, calling out the drug experts, what would be the recommended meds cocktail nowadays ? that is with N out of the question. Flunitrazepam looks like a strong sedative / anesthetic, known as a date rape drug, prolly hard to get, only available on prescription ? Dose ? Extra ? Alternatives ? ...goal : keep enough time to assembly the final parts and apply the mask properly without help before drifting asleep (long text and video instructions available on the R2D website)

Feel welcomed to bring about arguments against over-worrying parts, cause in contrast, the PPH makes it look like very straight forward, a different stance than in the past... Thanks in advance for your views.

* are we really sure the new Debreather is suitable solo, without assistance ?

> I just tested my hypoxia device (aka debreather) and I am personally confident that I can use it solo, although it's impossible to know for sure since there's no way to test past the point of unconsciousness.

* is there a favored body position / setting to undergo, to avoid interference of eventual body convulsions plus object colision so the mask stays still, not hit then displaced after unconsciousness transitioning (that could make death ineffective or worse, brain injury)

> I believe that body position is important, mostly due to movement, not necessarily from convulsions after becoming unconscious. It's probably impossible to predict if a person will have convulsions or how violent they will be.

* for it to be peaceful and reliable, should you prior drug yourself, to experience early sleep in order to avoid distresful symptoms from slow not abrupt O2 drop, or just time stress / second thoughts versus fighting back reflexes ?

> I will probably take Ambien and have a drink or two before. I hit 70% today and was feeling dizzy at the point. It doesn't feel bad. I've been hypoxic before, probably under 70% and started to blackout and saw stars. I would probably lose consciousness at 50-55%.

>> It's hard to imagine a person being able to remove the mask at 6% O2, but who knows as our SI is always at hard work! EDIT: They are referring to 6% available O2 by volume, not not oxygen saturation. A person is typically unconscious under 50-55% SpO2 (oxygen saturation).

Some interesting comments on this subject here: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-l...ve-without-becoming-brain-dead-or-die?share=1

 

[enjolras]

Thanks that you took the time to answer and write your opinion as a creator/tester !
Lately I was getting desperate that my most detailed points stay unanswered, or that I bother everyone's sense of calm with them, who would prefer to stay with a tunnel vision. I move the dust under the carpet only to get an accurate picture of the potentialities. I dislike over-simplification and prefer awareness and preparation
(by the way, sorry for the graphic images for those hurting, I realised too late that the german langage soundtrack was particularly torturous - humor, but a bit of truth)

You went for mastering your own design, would you suspect the Debreather that will go on sale to be any less efficient ? Have you made choices differently ?

120sec to lose 20%, 30sec to lose 6%. Pace of -1% every 5-6sec once it rolls. If it kept steady, you would expect to go unconscious around 5min in. That's half the job and satisfying for the conscious part. The last sprint with advanced symptoms would not last a lifetime.
It looks like you got the device and seal right, congrats! Definitely, you'd win the race of speed versus the NuTech testimonialsand PPH early tests. That's optimistic

I believe that body position is important, mostly due to movement, not necessarily from convulsions after becoming unconscious. It's probably impossible to predict if a person will have convulsions or how violent they will be.

Yes, let's agree on that. Then, what will you come up with, are you decided on that part ?
Nitschke advertises the new unit with the selling point of freedom of placement. I would not be tempted by the lying position myself, preferring not to have the neck in contact with a surface, nor have my head leaning against a wall in the bed. Maybe vertically tilted on a sofa, locked by cushions on the side, with the strapped head cleared away from contact ?

6% available O2 by volume, not oxygen saturation.

Correct. Didn't even know that 99% SpO2 was the starting point. I'm always at 98%, or 97% if not fully at rest, but I live somewhat above sea level and suffer from asthma. I do get stars occasionally by surprise, guess I'd have a galaxy trip with this method :)
Seriously, I have no idea why but I'm extremely sensitive to SpO2 drop and will start feeling light headed and a sense of air scarcity at no less than 95% SpO2. I know it's uncommon. Your symptoms' development sound a lot more typical about what a normal people ought to experience. I'm a bit jealous about your "shape" (physical condition)

I would have loved to see a correlation graph of O2 by volume against SpO2 adjusting since the Debreather is a more prolonged "activity" than the exit bag. When I read about the O2 by volume symptoms from old NuTech, they looked more scary than your peaceful journey.



Do we avoid the worst parts when it all happens too quickly ? Can the Debreather keep the same appeal of the exit bag that acts faster ?

EDIT : after reading your Quora link, I get the info (which makes our discussion valuable for me) that I might have an issue with altitude acclimatation to dig deeper
Should a guideline be introduced that the Debreather may be best undertook at the beach ? :) With all those masks and tubas, it could go unnoticed

 

[Deleted member 1768]

I must have missed something here. I followed that link and all my red alert spidersenses started tingling. Surely, it's a scam.

Yep. It is. A really bad scam.

 

[aresni200]

What happens if we try to use the rebreather but it does not seal/work properly. Will we experience pain?

 

[Notabadguy]

What happens if we try to use the rebreather but it does not seal/work properly. Will we experience pain?

The problem would be ending up in worse shape, I'm not an expert but I don't think that you'd experience pain.

 

[Alucard]

So, it seems available...

Is there a way to pay by paypal, without giving one's card number ?

 

[lmroch]

Is there a way to pay by paypal, without giving one's card number ?

Hello @Alucard The process is new for everyone. The technical issues are being worked out. Just starting yesterday people have been making an order ( or trying ), there have been issues. The people in the UK are having problems regarding the address. One who made an order yesterday.. now checked his CC, and it is not showing.

Regarding PayPal - "They have apparently fixed the error in the shopping cart. I was able to complete the purchase. It requires your credit card information. Shipping is a separate transaction and you have the option to use PayPal. Everything went smoothly."

You should just try.. go thru the motions and tell us what happens. That is the only way we'll know, and the system gets fixed.

At the bottom of the page Right2Die is a link to contact Richard, the man in charge, if you have questions, concerns, problems with the ordering.

 

[lmroch]

Hi All. We now have 3 threads that are active, re The Debreather.

You might want to go to this thread, it's up to 5 pages now. Been busy for a couple days.

Some stuff you may not have seen. And questions you may be able to answer.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/debreather-purchase-too-good-to-be-true.30913/

Hope it's a good day!

 

[Alucard]

 

[TrailerTrash]

My hypoxia device is fully tested. I would say this is exciting news, but that would be weird. I am satisfied with the device and a bit shocked at how well this method works.

Here are the details. I wore the mask for approximately 3 minutes, in that time my SpO2 (blood oxygen saturation) dropped from 99% to 70%. My O2 level remained at 98-96% until minute 1:30, after that it dropped rapidly. The pulse oximeter I am using was kind enough to alert me (beeps) when the level dropped below 80% I began to feel light headed around at 75% and took the mask off at 70%.

My breathing was shallow and relaxed, the air was starting to get a bit warm and humidity increased to a noticeable, yet not uncomfortable level. This is expected since it's a closed system. The air passing through the soda lime had a slight odor, although it wasn't unpleasant or irritating. I was careful to remove fine particles before loading the device and added a fine mesh filter to remove any stray particles.

Took this photo at minute 2:30, oxygen level at 76% and dropped to 70% 30 seconds later! The right number (82)is my pulse which was around 62 when I started, elevated but not a concern.

View attachment 29580


* are we really sure the new Debreather is suitable solo, without assistance ?

> I just tested my hypoxia device (aka debreather) and I am personally confident that I can use it solo, although it's impossible to know for sure since there's no way to test past the point of unconsciousness.

* is there a favored body position / setting to undergo, to avoid interference of eventual body convulsions plus object colision so the mask stays still, not hit then displaced after unconsciousness transitioning (that could make death ineffective or worse, brain injury)

> I believe that body position is important, mostly due to movement, not necessarily from convulsions after becoming unconscious. It's probably impossible to predict if a person will have convulsions or how violent they will be.

* for it to be peaceful and reliable, should you prior drug yourself, to experience early sleep in order to avoid distresful symptoms from slow not abrupt O2 drop, or just time stress / second thoughts versus fighting back reflexes ?

> I will probably take Ambien and have a drink or two before. I hit 70% today and was feeling dizzy at the point. It doesn't feel bad. I've been hypoxic before, probably under 70% and started to blackout and saw stars. I would probably lose consciousness at 50-55%.

>> It's hard to imagine a person being able to remove the mask at 6% O2, but who knows as our SI is always at hard work! EDIT: They are referring to 6% available O2 by volume, not not oxygen saturation. A person is typically unconscious under 50-55% SpO2 (oxygen saturation).

Some interesting comments on this subject here: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-l...ve-without-becoming-brain-dead-or-die?share=1

Appreciate the info. I also have an SpO2 device and will post my device results. Curious how much (volume or weight) soda lime you used?

 

[Notabadguy]

Appreciate the info. I also have an SpO2 device and will post my device results. Curious how much (volume or weight) soda lime you used?

Are you building a Debreather too?

 

[TrailerTrash]

Are you building a Debreather too?

Correct .....

 

[lmroch]

Spoiler: the mask

 

[Notabadguy]

Spoiler: the mask

View attachment 32948

I don't get it. I'm clumsy. I paid for a device (Rebreather). And now have I to do work to improve it?

In case the mask of the Rebreather doesn't fit well, is it hard to get a CPAP mask, where can it be found?

 

[LMLN]

How can a generic cpap mask do the job? I thought they spent years developing this system?

 

[Notabadguy]

Correct .....

Why don't you use the Rebreather and, if the mask that comes with it doesn't fit, you buy a CPAP mask? Just asking.