ksp
Arcanist
- Oct 1, 2022
- 435
Life doesn't have any value through the eyes of humans because it ends. There is no save game.
There is no value to something that ends without giving us something in return.
Life as it stands is absolutely pointless and meaningless and should be considered a crime to breed.
Unless of coarse we can bring knowledge or something from this experience into the after life, which we obviously don't know from this point in time.
So we have to judge life from our current information.
If you believe life has value then you are brainwashed, end of story.
There is no value to something that ends without giving us something in return.
Life as it stands is absolutely pointless and meaningless and should be considered a crime to breed.
Unless of coarse we can bring knowledge or something from this experience into the after life, which we obviously don't know from this point in time.
So we have to judge life from our current information.
If you believe life has value then you are brainwashed, end of story.
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Wojaczek
Student
- Oct 24, 2021
- 162
Un-
I'm a failure. An absolute waste. A LOSEr.
- Apr 6, 2021
- 652
I don't think you can shove life into either-or of those options. I've talked to some people who love their life as much as I would love to end it, and vise versa.
I think a better question would be: Is YOUR life valuable? And to that, my answer would be no.
I think a better question would be: Is YOUR life valuable? And to that, my answer would be no.
Chinaski
Arthur Scargill appreciator
- Sep 1, 2018
- 3,476
Yes, in that people should be rescued from burning buildings, people should be offered refuge from war, murdering people is bad, etc etc. This does not mean one can not decide to reject their own life if they wish.
Ineedtodie
Shame, Avoidance, hopelessness, lonliness, cbt, pm
- Nov 9, 2022
- 401
Life is just life. I believe we are trapped in a world where life likes to persue value and growth/evolution and whatever this world offer, happiness, pleasure, belonging, security, money, power/authority, control, survival... It's like a game life created, but life in itself has no measurable value.
At least this is what I believe.
At least this is what I believe.
Ineedtodie
Shame, Avoidance, hopelessness, lonliness, cbt, pm
- Nov 9, 2022
- 401
I think the world as we know it is just one manifestation/creation of life. But life is all encompassing.
Yeah, agree with other people here. MY life has no value to ME. I've known many people who value their lives though and all life come to that. I'm not prepared to say they're wrong.
Put it this way- if you were murdered or, anyone you cared about was murdered or their life was ended unjustly through willful or unwillful negligence- would you not expect the perpetrator to be found and brought to justice? Surely, it wouldn't really matter if their life was worthless anyway? We do at least try to protect other people's lives because there's a reasonable chance they wanted to live and that CHOICE was taken away from them.
You may not think your life has value but I'll bet you value your power to choose. That's largely why we're all on this forum right? Because we don't feel like we have the power to choose a peaceful exit.
Once we are here, we are stuck with having life. One small compensation is the power of choice. If ALL life is utterly useless- it doesn't matter what happens to any life right? But it DOES because we all believe we have some rights- that ought to be protected- and only things of value need protecting- otherwise, it would be a free-for-all.
The REALLY tricky subject is a case like that of Armin Meiwes who advertised he was looking for a 'young well-built man who wanted to be eaten.' His victim responded and agreed to everything that was done to him... He was killed and then eaten. So- did a crime occur if the victim was willing? I'm guessing most people would say 'yes.'
Put it this way- if you were murdered or, anyone you cared about was murdered or their life was ended unjustly through willful or unwillful negligence- would you not expect the perpetrator to be found and brought to justice? Surely, it wouldn't really matter if their life was worthless anyway? We do at least try to protect other people's lives because there's a reasonable chance they wanted to live and that CHOICE was taken away from them.
You may not think your life has value but I'll bet you value your power to choose. That's largely why we're all on this forum right? Because we don't feel like we have the power to choose a peaceful exit.
Once we are here, we are stuck with having life. One small compensation is the power of choice. If ALL life is utterly useless- it doesn't matter what happens to any life right? But it DOES because we all believe we have some rights- that ought to be protected- and only things of value need protecting- otherwise, it would be a free-for-all.
The REALLY tricky subject is a case like that of Armin Meiwes who advertised he was looking for a 'young well-built man who wanted to be eaten.' His victim responded and agreed to everything that was done to him... He was killed and then eaten. So- did a crime occur if the victim was willing? I'm guessing most people would say 'yes.'
Ineedtodie
Shame, Avoidance, hopelessness, lonliness, cbt, pm
- Nov 9, 2022
- 401
Basicly what I mean is that life is nondual as opposite to the duality ruling out world. we live in world ruled by the materialistic and the psychological aspects, value is determined based on those aspect. But it's is just one creation of life not life itself. So if your happy successful person or have desirable qualities and capabilities then you are valued otherwise not so much. It has nothing to do with life itself.
But it has to do with life. Everything in life has to do with each and every thing.
I think I lost you there. The main post sounded more advanced for some reason.
Superdeterminist
Enlightened
- Apr 5, 2020
- 1,873
KuriGohan&Kamehameha
想死不能 - 想活不能
- Nov 23, 2020
- 1,819
Each individual assigns value to their own life, I think. However, the default assumption is that everyone values life, and that it is something which is inherently scared and precious no matter what. In some situations, this is a good thing, because it means that an unconscious drowning victim can be saved, or passerby can be protected from the fiery hail of a nearby car crash.
For those of us who have ascertained that our own lives hold no value, this assumption becomes problematic. Serious self-harm is defacto illegal. Yes, you won't be criminalised for attempting suicide, but your decision certainly won't be sanctioned, and surrounding actors will do everything in their power to keep you alive at all costs, even if you don't consent to this.
We haven't reached a collective ethical and moral agreement that quality of life is more important than quantity. The basal state of living and breathing is considered to be valuable and holy, regardless of the circumstances which that living creature must endure. There is more to life than simply existing, and we know this as a species, hence why people scour for meaning, distractions, and ways to keep themselves occupied so that they don't ponder these extesential questions too much.
Many times I have been told x or y is for my wellbeing, and that I should not be bothered by certain things because they are deemed necessary for life to continue. How many times have you been told that life isn't fair, life is cruel, and sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do? To that, I pose the question, why should I have to do these things to continue a life I don't want? A life that I have deemed invaluable long ago.
I don't see life as inherently valuable, rather, it's the components and pieces that make a life truly worth living that are valuable. Once you don't have any of those things, why are you not allowed to determine that your own life lacks purpose, if you've set a metric for what value means to you? Indeed, all life comes to an end eventually, so it doesn't make much sense to impose one's personal philosophies surrounding bodily autonomy onto someone else, who doesn't agree with the default religious-based santicty of life belief system.
We're not at a point of consensus yet where these beliefs aren't seen as controversial or shocking, because it is hard for people who value their lives on such a deep level to conceptualise how it feels to get to a state where life is meaningless. Many people believe that devaluing your own life will lead to others following suit, hence the controversy over MAID being legalised in countries like Canada.
If the majority values life and thinks it is moralistic to do so, it is always going to seem unethical to them for someone to reject this or frame it as a pathology/illness. Many laws are founded upon the concept of duty of care/duty to uphold right to life, so even if people disagree with this on an ethical level, you can't do much when your jurisdiction has decided it is illegal for someone to condone your thoughts about suicide. Even if the other party secretly agrees with you that life is not always valuable, they are terrified of the legal and social reprocussions of expressing this.
For those of us who have ascertained that our own lives hold no value, this assumption becomes problematic. Serious self-harm is defacto illegal. Yes, you won't be criminalised for attempting suicide, but your decision certainly won't be sanctioned, and surrounding actors will do everything in their power to keep you alive at all costs, even if you don't consent to this.
We haven't reached a collective ethical and moral agreement that quality of life is more important than quantity. The basal state of living and breathing is considered to be valuable and holy, regardless of the circumstances which that living creature must endure. There is more to life than simply existing, and we know this as a species, hence why people scour for meaning, distractions, and ways to keep themselves occupied so that they don't ponder these extesential questions too much.
Many times I have been told x or y is for my wellbeing, and that I should not be bothered by certain things because they are deemed necessary for life to continue. How many times have you been told that life isn't fair, life is cruel, and sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do? To that, I pose the question, why should I have to do these things to continue a life I don't want? A life that I have deemed invaluable long ago.
I don't see life as inherently valuable, rather, it's the components and pieces that make a life truly worth living that are valuable. Once you don't have any of those things, why are you not allowed to determine that your own life lacks purpose, if you've set a metric for what value means to you? Indeed, all life comes to an end eventually, so it doesn't make much sense to impose one's personal philosophies surrounding bodily autonomy onto someone else, who doesn't agree with the default religious-based santicty of life belief system.
We're not at a point of consensus yet where these beliefs aren't seen as controversial or shocking, because it is hard for people who value their lives on such a deep level to conceptualise how it feels to get to a state where life is meaningless. Many people believe that devaluing your own life will lead to others following suit, hence the controversy over MAID being legalised in countries like Canada.
If the majority values life and thinks it is moralistic to do so, it is always going to seem unethical to them for someone to reject this or frame it as a pathology/illness. Many laws are founded upon the concept of duty of care/duty to uphold right to life, so even if people disagree with this on an ethical level, you can't do much when your jurisdiction has decided it is illegal for someone to condone your thoughts about suicide. Even if the other party secretly agrees with you that life is not always valuable, they are terrified of the legal and social reprocussions of expressing this.
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AloneInCollege
The one and only
- Mar 7, 2022
- 167
Ineedtodie
Shame, Avoidance, hopelessness, lonliness, cbt, pm
- Nov 9, 2022
- 401
Sorry if I understood your question in a different way.
I think my answer now would be that our world is seemingly insane and can be certainly extremely unfair to a lot of people. and personally I don't consider my existence valuable in such a place, that's why I' m unbearablely suffering and went to end it. Others might have found joy and meaning or just adapted but I did not.
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Darkover
Archangel
- Jul 29, 2021
- 5,649
there is value in life but it's so little and easy lost , what vaule does a single ant have in the grand schem of things, surprisingly these lives have very little to none valueable because most achive next to noithing but worjing a 9 to 5 dead end job
I can't vote, because I don't think it's a yes or no answer
Value is the worth that somebody attributes to something, and life has huge value to many people; to other people, none
I don't value my life, but consider my childrens lives priceless
Value is the worth that somebody attributes to something, and life has huge value to many people; to other people, none
I don't value my life, but consider my childrens lives priceless
But what does achieving something greater matter in the grand scheme of things?
What does a doctor die with that a cleaner will not?
Lonerzepam
O'lord! I Have My Doubts
- Sep 2, 2022
- 619
Darkover
Archangel
- Jul 29, 2021
- 5,649
the docoor achives nothing a cleaner does just a better pay package, you get the elite like elon musk bill gates mark kuzucerbuger all making billions per year while the cleaner is stuck on 10$ a hour its all bullshit anyway the only resaon thoese high flyers are anyone is because they got lucky a roll of the dice
I think this is true- sadly. We see it too often in terms of justice. Perhaps things are different now but back in the day, serial killers who targeted prostitutes or homosexuals seemed to get away with it for longer because there did seem to be a biase against them. It did seem at least like their lives were treated as 'less' than when those same killers targeted other people. I don't think it was just the case that their victims situations put them at risk- I think there was at least then, a de-valuation of them and their rights.
Same goes for disasters. The Bhopal Union Carbide disaster was utterly horrific. I don't think anyone would argue that- if that had happened say in London (UK) or Washington (USA) the compensation would have been far greater. A person's life in terms of how we (the greater 'we'- governments, police, corporations) value it (monetary, rights, respect) will vary largely on where they are from, how wealthy they are and what they do as a profession. Which is reflected in terms of how they are treated... Sadly.
yes.
But there's no difference in the end.
There's no reward after death to becoming a doctor.
It is valuable. I am sure I can be of help to others before I leave this world.
It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things... I suppose nothing does...
It's all about perception though- like everything else. The cleaner may well have lived a happier life than the doctor or vise versa. Depends on what matters to YOU.
If it bothers you that you haven't achieved what you wanted to in life (and I'm not saying anyone HAS to achieve anything- it's a personal feeling), then maybe you will be going to the grave with more regret than someone who achieved more of their aims.
Not saying you should, not saying it will have changed the world, not saying it will even work in improving your life. Just to THAT person- who might feel more at peace with their life (for whatever reason from their perspective) it's just that- they have found peace. No regrets, no feelings of unfulfillment. (Or fewer- anyhow.)
That's going to look different for everyone. For the nihilists out there- I guess it's good news because everything is meaningless anyway- so it won't have mattered what you did or didn't do.
In terms of death- probably doesn't matter what you achieved, although we do have the more 'brilliant' of our species to thank for leaving us awesome art to distract ourselves with. Someone out there likely keen on achievement also synthesized nembutal- so trying to reach a goal isn't all futile. In terms of life though (which we've all been stuck with for years...) it will affect your quality of life on how you perceive you're doing at it (so long as you're vaguely engaged with it.)
In my mind, helping anything in this world is evil in the end.
So if you ask me it's more valuable to just be passive.
redeyepiranha
Member
- Jun 22, 2022
- 87
FuneralCry
Just wanting some peace
- Sep 24, 2020
- 45,783
I do believe that life itself has no value, life only exists as a consequence of evolution and I see it as being a tragic mistake how life evolved to this point and that so much endless suffering continues to exist. Life exists just to eventually die and this is inevitable.
There's no purpose to life being on this earth, it just continues to exist because of procreation, and any beliefs of life having 'value' are often because this is existence is all that we know, and we cannot comprehend what it's like to be dead, so people place so much emphasis on life, it can be linked to the instinct to survive. I believe that many people in this world find it difficult to accept how meaningless and insignificant our lives really are and this could be why they value life. The idea that life has any real value is a delusion. Life is an incredibly useless and unnecessary concept that should have never existed. It would certainly had been better off if life was never a thing in the first place, as it would have prevented so much pain being experienced.
There's no purpose to life being on this earth, it just continues to exist because of procreation, and any beliefs of life having 'value' are often because this is existence is all that we know, and we cannot comprehend what it's like to be dead, so people place so much emphasis on life, it can be linked to the instinct to survive. I believe that many people in this world find it difficult to accept how meaningless and insignificant our lives really are and this could be why they value life. The idea that life has any real value is a delusion. Life is an incredibly useless and unnecessary concept that should have never existed. It would certainly had been better off if life was never a thing in the first place, as it would have prevented so much pain being experienced.
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