Please Rethink Train Jumping

[Brick In The Wall]

Calling it "cowardly" .. It still seems to be the best way to go and I dont care if someone sympathises with me on that because when I am gone - I am gone. Easy as that. If some people consider it to be an asshole way out thats ok aswell. People have chosen this job and know what other people can do. Said person would also not make the driver kill them but rather the train

Fair enough, I'm sorry you're at the point you're at and that you don't see any other way out. You could probably hang yourself with the shirt on your back though if you were so inclined. So again I stand by my sentiments. There's always other methods.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Death comes with being a train engineer, nearly half of whom have operated a train that killed someone on the tracks

In the Philadelphia area, that amount is estimated to be even worse. Afterward, many suffer nightmares, anxiety, and PTSD.

www.inquirer.com

That's one aspect, the other possibility is that article is mere propaganda—I'm not trying to be an asshole, but rather suggest an additional view. Part of the training involves the preparation and an understanding that jumpers are part and parcel of being a conductor, pure and simple. People who work as EMT's have many emergency situations where people die right in front of the them—it's part of their job, and they manage ok.

Like has been stated before, some feel that this is their only means of ctb, especially in Europe, and whether you, or me, or anybody else doesn't approve, ctb via train will continue until other means are much easier and cheaper become available.

Making someone else kill you is messed up and alot more cowardly

Hardly cowardly. I would wager it would take some major fuckin' courage to jump or stand in front of a high speed train.

 

[Science Is Scary]

There may be an additional family burden with suicide by transportation in some places. For example, in Japan the families of people have been fined for disrupting trains or buses.

 

[ManWithNoName]

There may be an additional family burden with suicide by transportation in some places. For example, in Japan the families of people have been fined for disrupting trains or buses.

There is currently a similar case in Germany pending, though it is the first of it's kind and I have not heard the verdict.

 

[c824767]

I am not as noble as you. I don't think that our problem is our own, when someone else is causing it. If someone else is responsible for taking away the peaceful option, then that someone else should not be surprised if that has consequences. Either for themselves, their assets or their children. It's a consequence of a decision. I don't want a 5 year old to watch a live suicide. I think that is cruel. And it is not like that train jumper purposely tries to hurt other people. This does not mean it is justified. I would never take out my frustration on other people. I just think that someone who jumps in front of a train can not be blamed for the consequences.

And Nembutal should not be available in grocery stores. But one should not make it impossible to get for those who want it. I think that it would be better to make it available in special clinics. And if someone requested it, give them a cooling down period of half a year, and ask them to make an appointment for application on a specific date a half year from now. That way you know it's not based on an impulse.

@SoupSnakes
Suicide is a personal thing, I agree with that. Let governments and politics not interfere with that, by making it impossible for people to use a peacefull way to end their lives.

peaceful way to end your life, we are all begging for understanding from the powers that be, we are fragile and have no voice.
We are subjected all around the globe to legal systems that suck the life out of us, like in a Dickensian novel.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Ctb by train in Germany makes me think of the rather unusual case of Adolf Merckle, who was a billionaire that lost his money and business during the financial crisis of 2009.

He ctb via train, but he was the ceo of the Ratiopharm pharmaceutical company. He could have procured N or anything else drug wise seeing how he was connected to the industry.

Yet he took his life via a train.

German billionaire commits suicide after VW losses

In killing himself German billionaire Adolf Merckle has become the latest casualty of the global financial crisis, his family saying on Tuesday he was broken by the struggle to salvage their business empire.

www.reuters.com

 

[Science Is Scary]

There is currently a similar case in Germany pending, though it is the first of it's kind and I have not heard the verdict.

Thanks for the info. Looks like it was a civil case against the parents of the person who died on the tracks. I don't know the outcome either. I couldn't find a followup story.

 

[Stan]

I think you have to break the statement "I am going to jump in front of a train" into two.

Firstly, nobody needs instructions. If you really are asking for instructions it's perhaps more a cry for help than anything else. Someone has reached a real desperate point and is screaming into the void. These members are in crisis, should be dealt with I guess with kindness. I know today I have rethought how I should react as I am a big "no - don't do it". But I realise now that I am reacting to the statement and not a member in distress.

Secondly i can see that those who say 'Yeah - do it' show no sign of having empathy or sympathy with innocents that get involved in suicide. This is a pro-choice board. It's your decision what you choose to do with your life but why does it need to involve someone else to help deliver your choice? There are way more methods that are easy to do that only involve yourself. Maybe the mental health issues of members saying its ok to involve someone else means they lack the capacity for empathy and/or sympathy. We can't necessarily judge them as bad people or wrong. It's how they feel. Certainly over a medium like this forum only using text, there is no way you can teach or promote empathy or sympathy, you either have it or you don't.

People who work as EMT's have many emergency situations where people die right in front of the them—it's part of their job, and they manage ok.

There are many vocations that try to give training to prepare people for the worse through training and awareness. Does not give them a vaccination and make them immune to trauma. Look at how many trained soldiers come back from conflicts with PTSD and take their own lives. Each individual is different. We can't generalise to how a traumatic event sits with them.


There's no grey areas in this particular method. It truly is black or white. My thoughts go back to my first point. A new member comes online and types something like that, maybe they are not seeking permission, maybe they are seeking an ear, positive attention or something else. But every time it comes up, it always ends with two camps at loggerheads. It will continue to happen, maybe its time to break the cycle and do something different.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Firstly, nobody needs instructions. If you really are asking for instructions it's perhaps more a cry for help than anything else. Someone has reached a real desperate point and is screaming into the void.

Respectfully I disagree. Why? Two words: Victor Staudt.

This man attempted suicide via train and fucked it up—lost both legs but survived, which is worse case scenario imho.

So some working knowledge of how to it correctly cbt via train is necessary.

 

[Stan]

Respectfully I disagree. Why? Two words: Victor Staudt.

This man attempted suicide via train and fucked it up—lost both legs but survived, which is worse case scenario imho.

So some working knowledge of how to it correctly cbt via train is necessary.

Most methods have a failure rate, just need to see that here with people having difficulty with some of the methods relating to the neck area.

I would be intrigued to see if someone writes a method paper for train jumping, posts it and the reaction.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Most methods have a failure rate,

I quite agree, but this contradicts your original assertion that nobody needs instructions. Any cbt method, aside from jumping from an airplane at 10,000 feet, has specific steps that need to be followed for each method to ensure success.

 

[Stan]

I quite agree, but this contradicts your original assertion that nobody needs instructions.

I was going to answer but I think I will let this one die on the vine.

 

[ManWithNoName]

I was going to answer but I think I will let this one die on the vine.

Feel free to speak your mind, I'm not trying to put you on the spot at all, and if I've mis-interpretted something, than please clarify. I certainly welcome your thoughts.

 

[Stan]

Feel free to speak your mind, I'm not trying to put you on the spot at all, and if I've mis-interpretted something, than please clarify. I certainly welcome your thoughts.

OK, lets go back to the original premise of this thread. I will paraphrase. Is it good to involve someone else in your suicide? For this example it is a train driver. This is how i have seen this thread go so far (funny enough, there is another thread running in parallel on the same topic). The OP posted a link to a news story of the impact it has on railworkers because of the trauma they received by someone jumping in front of the train. Here are some more:

Train driver involved in eight suicides haunted by body parts on track

Train driver Dave Goodwin, 63, shares the horrifying things he has witnessed and the effect it has had on him and his family

www.mirror.co.uk

Train driver killed himself after witnessing a death on shift

Scott Walker struggled to cope after his train struck a suicidal person, inquest hears

www.theguardian.com

Some interesting observations were made afterwards, especially the one with 'the grand exit' with people knowing that someone has died, there is logic in that observation. I can understand someone wanting to know they have gone even if they meant nothing to nobody (they felt) in life.

Thread went on to include your statement that people are trained for this and are mostly OK. That statement for me was a tad inflammatory. Then I realised it could have come from a place where a person has no empathy (and unless you have been the direct cause of someones death it is hard to have it) or sympathy. Which is the crux of the issue.

Then it went on to someone surviving an attempted cbt by train but lost their legs. It does not take much thinking to know what part of his body was in front of the train. If they were in the middle of the tracks then there would be little hope of survival.

But I go back to the point that people consider a train driver ok because 'Hey - its their job. They have seen a training video that says that someone might jump out' for me shows a lack of any emotion for the person involved. In the threads that I have spoken about this on, every ethical question I raised to highlight the drivers plight gets ignored. You yourself bypassed my point when you spoke about training and I highlighted soldiers who suffer PTSD. In essence, these guys are trained to kill!

 

[Johnny23]

Calling it "cowardly" .. It still seems to be the best way to go and I dont care if someone sympathises with me on that because when I am gone - I am gone. Easy as that. If some people consider it to be an asshole way out thats ok aswell. People have chosen this job and know what other people can do. Said person would also not make the driver kill them but rather the train

This is a good page, that shows up other ways to finish, but also the train method. I think it's a good source and discussion basic. -> https://iplis.ru/2dzRc5

 

[voyager]

I kind of disagree with that. The only option for someone to commit suicide is often the violent way. Why is that? Because "society" does a lot to make peaceful methods unavailable.

Everyone, that is part of society, therefore has the bear the consequences of that. One consequence of taking peaceful methods away, is that someone might jump in front of a train to commit suicide. If that person had an option to get nembutal, that person would probably not jump in front of a train, but take nembutal.

Iow, the person that jumps in front of a train, to commit suicide, is not responsible for the damage done to other individuals or assets in that society, that same society that prevents the availability of peaceful methods. It's an act of desperation.

If people or companies in society don't like this, they should vote or take action to make peaceful methods available to those who need it.

I kinda agree, but let's face it, how much influence do we as individuals really have when it comes to making state policy? Even if we assume the driver is pro euthanasia that doesn't mean he's willing to become the executioner.

...

No offense, but you're in the US, he's in Germany and while I'm sure you'd hold the same stance even if you weren't (as do many non US here) it doesn't change the fact that you have access to the ultimate method at all times, i.e. guns. This in itself provides a tremendous peace of mind and the luxury to contemplate other methods. Guns simply have the highest success rate by far, they're dischargable everywhere and they're also instantaneous. So once you pull that trigger it's done.

SN, CO, hanging etc. are all fine and good, but the risks are higher and they do take time. Time enough for SI to kick in, for pain and struggle or worst of all being found prematurely with dire consequences. Jumping otoh is in a totally different league, because not everyone has access to certain heights and jumping on one's head requires a huge amount of determination. Most people can't even jump head first from a swimming pool platform let alone to one's death and I've yet to see a video of it.

The train method otoh is simple but extremely reliable if one doesn't flinch. "Jumping" is a mess, but decapitation is as good as it gets, because you can't be rescucitated and won't end up a vegetable. It's also fast, so no contemplation, hardly any pain and no need to drag in other people either, just take a (~freight) train behind a tunnel, bush or decent corner. There's no denying that this is an highly effective method, but yes, there is indeed the driver...

Btw, I live near some train tracks, but very far from any guns. Which is maybe why I can understand this dilemma and when I was young and desperate I did indeed contemplate the idea. Ironically there's a train just passing now. Anyway, I also had massive brain fog and every other method seemed overly complicated or bound to fail. I found LAH a few years back and now SS, which is ridiculous considering the size of the net, but back then I had no resources at all. And no, I won't judge myself on empathy either, because there was only excruciating pain and all I wanted was for it to stop.

Well, I'm older now, calmer, balanced and I don't see it as an option anymore. Suicide to me is a very personal thing and I want to go on my terms, at my pace and alone, and I don't want to traumatise other people if I can avoid it. But I won't judge anyone who does in this context, nor am I delusional, because people will continue to ctT simply because it's effective, and ostracising them here on basis of ethics or trauma seems a tad hypocritical to me. I mean, what about the people we lied to or tricked into a prescription? The people who discover our corpses in the woods or mangled under a bridge? What about our loved ones or the kids we leave behind? By all means let's minimise the impact, but let's refrain from holier than thou olympics.

One last story though, as I've said I live near the tracks and have taken the train often (for rides mind you :p ) and have witnessed people first hand moaning and joking about delays and the *idiot* who had to kill himself on this day of all days. My mom had the same experience on another occasion. Someone also threw themselves in front of the train less than a hundred metres from our house and his bits were literally hanging from the trees. They used some sort of chemicals to clean it up and the smell was there for weeks. So please don't do it, for your sake and others. It was disgusting, or at least so I thought until I heard of a teen filming it on his cell.

 

[Final Escape]

I kind of disagree with that. The only option for someone to commit suicide is often the violent way. Why is that? Because "society" does a lot to make peaceful methods unavailable.

Everyone, that is part of society, therefore has the bear the consequences of that. One consequence of taking peaceful methods away, is that someone might jump in front of a train to commit suicide. If that person had an option to get nembutal, that person would probably not jump in front of a train, but take nembutal.

Iow, the person that jumps in front of a train, to commit suicide, is not responsible for the damage done to other individuals or assets in that society, that same society that prevents the availability of peaceful methods. It's an act of desperation.

If people or companies in society don't like this, they should vote or take action to make peaceful methods available to those who need it.

This is what I think too. Not the suicidal person's fault they don't have access to a more peaceful method. It has much to do with the politically connected powerful people making decisions about this stuff, but the average person has little influence on gov policies to our detriment.