Method On the Efficacy and Peacefulness of Nitrites

[madameviolette]

Yes, SN interferes with the ability of the blood to carry oxygen and the brain is very sensitive to drops in oxygen levels. This is why occlusion of the carotid arteries (such as with a hanging or "the pass out game") only limits about 80% of the brain's blood supply. but still causes loss of consciousness.

The same with SN and other methods like carbon monoxide or helium. They prevent the brain from getting oxygenated blood. This will bring on a loss of consciousness.

So when people pass out from taking SN, they are losing consciousness due to cerebral hypoxia. The OP is absolutely correct about that. I just felt a clarification was necessary, as I could see someone reading that and thinking that hypoxia is an event that causes pain. The pain is the result of poisoning the body with nitrite.

So would you say it's painful or painless ?
There's a lot of debate here whether SN is peaceful

 

[Endisclose]

I just felt a clarification was necessary, as I could see someone reading that and thinking that hypoxia is an event that causes pain. The pain is the result of poisoning the body with nitrite.

More specifically, the pain might be due to NO and NO2 production due to the interaction of SN and stomach acid. The solution may be in lessening stomach acid to prevent or limit production of NO and NO2 by taking PPIs, H2 blockers and antacids. I have made a detailed post in this thread on this..

On the Efficacy and Peacefulness of Nitrites

This year, I've personally lost two beings who were very close to me, via sodium nitrite. @spark, a very close friend of mine, died 2025-06-26. @shroomia, my girlfriend (and more practically speaking, my wife) died 2025-10-10. I'm starting this thread partly to share my anecdotes about their SN...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Nightfoot]

More specifically, the pain might be due to NO and NO2 production due to the interaction of SN and stomach acid. The solution may be in lessening stomach acid to prevent or limit production of NO and NO2 by taking PPIs, H2 blockers and antacids. I have made a detailed post in this thread on this..

On the Efficacy and Peacefulness of Nitrites

This year, I've personally lost two beings who were very close to me, via sodium nitrite. @spark, a very close friend of mine, died 2025-06-26. @shroomia, my girlfriend (and more practically speaking, my wife) died 2025-10-10. I'm starting this thread partly to share my anecdotes about their SN...

sanctioned-suicide.net

I had read on another post that antacids could slow the absorption of SN, but not sure if that's true.

 

[nyotei_]

I had read on another post that antacids could slow the absorption of SN, but not sure if that's true.

the nitrite method already involves a lot of other substances. without the backing of something like a medical degree, a falsifiable theory, and rigorous testing of the theory, all we have is hearsay until proven otherwise.

 

[Hiro Uchiha]

Agree, simply because hypoxia is generally painless in itself, but i guess it's understandable to feel bad about it when you wake up from it. The events that lead to it can be unpleasant afterall.

 

[nullsoul]

Thank you for your consideration

 

[Endisclose]

I had read on another post that antacids could slow the absorption of SN, but not sure if that's true.

Do you have a link to the post? It will help if we can have some context or if some kind of reasoning is provided. Logically in an alkaline environment, one would expect digestion to slow down, but SN is not like food, it a solution mixed with water.

One feels it shouldn't matter in that case. All that matters is for the solution to pass through to the small intestine where it should be absorbed easily.

 

[hell toupee]

So would you say it's painful or painless ?
There's a lot of debate here whether SN is peaceful

Are you referring to SN? Or cerebral hypoxia?

SN, I don't know - I've read conflicting reports. Some people simply fall asleep without much problem. Others vomit repeatedly (even after the anti-emetic regimen) and complain of stomach and abdominal pain, headaches (from a drop in blood pressure) and a racing heart (tachycardia). I suppose that's why a benzo is recommended beforehand.

I've never actually tried it myself, and am not using SN as my method, but there is a huge mega thread in the resource section you should read if you haven't already.

Cerebral hypoxia, as I said before, in and of itself is not painful. It depends on the method used to induce the hypoxia.

 

[heydude56]

So would you say it's painful or painless ?
There's a lot of debate here whether SN is peaceful

It seems that it really depends. It can be pretty painful depending on the person but I think the reason a lot of people seek this method is because 1) all you have to do is drink it so the amount of fear or SI would be much smaller than other conventional methods and 2) it has pretty high success rate

 

[Defenestration]

This year, I've personally lost two beings who were very close to me, via sodium nitrite. @spark, a very close friend of mine, died 2025-06-26. @shroomia, my girlfriend (and more practically speaking, my wife) died 2025-10-10.

I'm starting this thread partly to share my anecdotes about their SN deaths + hypoxia in general, but also to discuss possible inaccuracies many might assume about SN as a suicide method. I think it's important that we understand what we're getting into, and whether we can expect peacefulness, since that's what many on here are hoping for.

---

spark:
spark (it/its pronouns, 19 years old) died by SN on June 26, 2025. spark didn't have any of the other drugs that are typically recommended with an SN regiment: anti-emetics, benzodiazepines, beta-blockers...

No, spark "rawdogged" it with nothing but weed. spark asked shroomia to call with it so it wouldn't have to be alone when it died. According to accounts of shroomia, both on SaSu and more privately in person between the two of us, spark's death was unfortunately...rather painful. spark complained of the nausea and pain to shroomia, even waking back up after losing consciousness, and continuing to be in pain.

In the end, the SN worked, and it took perhaps ~1 hour at most, though shroomia didn't keep track of it. spark...reached out to shroomia while she was at work. shroomia took that call while she was at work from a bathroom stall...

---

shroomia:
shroomia (she/her or it/its pronouns, 24 years old) died by SN on October 10, 2025. shroomia did have all of the drugs that are recommended for an SN regiment.

I painstakingly took notes of what she told me that night, and you can read the minute-to-minute details in her SaSu thread. However, shroomia too experienced pain while dying from SN. She took her SN around 01:10, and was already unresponsive by 01:22, just 12 minutes later. In the January 2025 PPeH (page 122 of 225), Exit International discusses that 12 minutes is actually rather typical for losing consciousness:
View attachment 182086
The things I heard on call with my girlfriend are more or less exactly what is reported. This is the good news. SN works. Period.

However, it leaves open a rather unsettling fact: SN is quite unforgiving as a method of suicide. shroomia had already taken several tablets of benzos as well as an anti-emetic prior to the SN at 01:10, and yet...she told me about her stomach hurting, and I could hear things like vomiting over the call.

---

spark and I:
spark and I attempted to CTB with carbon monoxide (CO) on 2025-05-14 (May 14, 2025). That attempt didn't work out, and the both of us suffered symptoms of hypoxia because we both survived.

Quant à moi, comme je n'avais pas de sédatifs lorsque nous avons apporté nos charbons ardents dans la pièce, je me suis réveillé après avoir perdu connaissance. J'avais d'atroces douleurs. J'avais un mal de tête, de fortes nausées et je pouvais à peine me tenir debout. J'ai quitté la pièce et me suis rendu aux toilettes, où j'ai découvert que mes sous-vêtements étaient déjà mouillés d'urine et que j'avais dû nettoyer une bonne quantité d'excréments qui avaient quitté mon corps pendant mon inconscience. J'ai appris plus tard que tous mes camarades de classe restants étaient morts lors de cette tentative. Les lésions cérébrales étaient déjà importantes.

Dans les jours et les semaines qui ont suivi, le mal de tête a persisté pendant plusieurs jours. J'ai également développé une toux accompagnée de symptômes grippaux, ce qui semble également fréquent en cas d'hypoxie induite par une intoxication au CO. Ces symptômes grippaux ont persisté une à deux semaines.

Dans le PPeH (page 175 sur 225), Exit International rapporte ses conclusions sur les décès liés au CO :
View attachment 182087
Le temps écoulé entre le début et la fin de notre tentative de CO a varié entre 30 minutes et 2 heures. Nous n'avons pas bien suivi le temps. Après tout, j'avais très mal. Cependant, compte tenu des symptômes que j'avais, je trouve surprenant que l'un de nous ait survécu. Je me demande alors ce qui s'est passé : ne sommes-nous pas restés assez longtemps dans la pièce ? La concentration de CO a-t-elle chuté trop rapidement à cause d'une étincelle qui a dispersé les braises sur les plaques de cuisson ? Le tableau des EPI est-il trompeur et inexact ?

---

Sur la tranquillité des nitrites :
Étant donné que le CO et le SN sont tous deux connus pour induire une hypoxie (et probablement aussi du nitrite de potassium - KNO2, alias KN), j'ai atteint certaines convictions personnelles sur ces méthodes qui, je l'espère, pourront aider à informer les autres sur les conséquences.

L'hypoxie, c'est horrible. Je l'ai vécu. Spark et Shroomia en sont morts de douleur (et oui, même de douleur). Il y a des leçons positives et négatives à tirer de tout cela, dont nous devrions nous défaire…

Le bon:

• SN fonctionne. Point final.
• Le SN provoque une mort relativement rapide et conduit à une perte de connaissance rapide.

Le neutre :

• SN nécessite un certain nombre d'autres médicaments pour garantir qu'il s'agit d'une façon paisible de mourir.
• Certains de ces médicaments peuvent être plusieurs fois plus chers que le SN lui-même.
• Dans plusieurs pays, les premiers intervenants transportent de plus en plus souvent sur eux l'antidote au SN, le « bleu de méthylène ». (Source : PPeH, page 120 sur 225)

Le mauvais:

• Le SN est si rapide qu'il m'est apparu clairement que le moment d'administration des autres médicaments antérieurs est crucial pour la tranquillité de la méthode.
• Sans être déjà dans un état de somnolence importante, l'apparition des symptômes d'hypoxie peut également être tout aussi rapide et conduire à une mort inconfortable, voire douloureuse.

A noter (et exceptions possibles) :

• Spark et Shroomia étaient tous deux relativement jeunes lorsqu'ils sont morts. L'âge et d'autres caractéristiques physiques peuvent toujours influencer nos propres réactions.

---

Enfin, tout ceci n'a pas pour but de dissuader les gens de prendre du SN. Si le SN fait partie de votre traitement, réfléchissez-y bien avant de prendre vos médicaments complémentaires. Le SN agit rapidement. Si les autres médicaments ne font pas déjà effet, le SN pourrait agir plus rapidement, et un tel décès pourrait être plus douloureux que prévu.

Si vous ne connaissez pas encore cette ressource, vous devriez consulter le Wiki Psychonaut . Ce wiki contient des informations sur les drogues et leurs effets. Bien que la plupart des informations concernent un usage récréatif, le site explique également ce à quoi il faut s'attendre avec les benzodiazépines, comme l'alprazolam (aussi appelé Xanax) , et quand leurs effets sont à leur maximum.

C'est tout. Merci de votre lecture.

Thanks for this information

 

[Hiro Uchiha]

Logically in an alkaline environment, one would expect digestion to slow down, but SN is not like food, it a solution mixed with water.

One feels it shouldn't matter in that case. All that matters is for the solution to pass through to the small intestine where it should be absorbed easily.

True, high pH= slower digestion

If you ingest SN inside Gel Capsules, antacids could potentially have an effect on how fast the gel capsule dissolves, although I guess not that much.
But as a solution, it's readily assimilated in the intestines.

 

[UltimateTrip]

Thanks OP for sharing all of this with us. I can't imagine the level of pain you're going through having gone through the experience you've shared with us. I want to let you know that all of us in this community stand with you and are here for you.

One or two things struck me about what you had written about Shroomia's regime prior to CTB. At one point you said she took a few domperidones just prior to CTB while in Shroomia's goodbye thread I believe you mention a 36 hour regime of domperidone taken every by 8 hours.

I think it's worth noting here that meto is probably the strongest antiemetic for this. Not sure if Shroomia had access to it though or if she chose not to take it. In my research, the stat dose leaves more meto in the system compared to the 48 hour regime. I think this is the best option against vomiting.

It is also not clear if she took any PPIs, H2 blockers or antacids. I think the stomach pain may be the result of the SN reacting with the acid in the stomach. The reaction may look somewhat like this..

NaNO2 + HCl ----> HNO2 +NaCl

HNO2 (nitrous acid) is unstable especially in warm acidic conditions like the stomach and decomposes as follows:-

2 HNO2 ----> NO + NO2 + H2O

NO (nitric oxide) and NO2(nitrogen dioxide) are toxic and irritant gases. NO2 is a corrosive brown gas that can irritate the stomach lining and trigger nausea or vomiting due to local chemical irritation.

HNO2 formation is strongly pH-dependent. If the gastric pH is raised, protonation of NO2- to HNO2 is suppressed, so fewer nitrosating/irritant species are formed.

In other words the solution seems to be to lower stomach acid (raising the pH and making it less acidic) either through PPIs or H2 blockers or antacids or a combination of all of them.

I think the older PPeH versions used to recommend PPIs, H2 blockers, antacids but then the newer versions seem to have dropped them - not sure why. The newer version just says rather cryptically "The benefit in terms of potentiation...cannot be clearly established. This is not longer advised."

But who is talking about the need for potentiation which is the effect of enhancing the efficacy (or potency) of a drug. SN is pretty potent at the recommended dose in and by itself. You don't need anything to "potentiate" or enhance that. The moot question is if it would reduce discomfort or possible pain.

There is no indication that lowering stomach acid would affect nitrite absorption in any significant way. In fact it might lead to enhanced nitrite absorption in the small intestine as lesser nitrite is converted into the gaseous form of NO and NO2.

PPIs seem to be the most efficient way to do this, but need to be taken over at least 4 to 5 days to achieve good enough acid suppression. Just taking a stat dose before CTB might not be of much use in this regard. These need time to have their effect. People with acid reflux issues are usually prescribed a course of 4 to 8 weeks to achieve maximal acid suppression, but as per my research about 4 to 5 days or maybe a week should be sufficient.

A section of the PPeH under the chapter "Supplementary drugs" recommends 40 mg of nexium daily about 30 to 60 mins before breakfast and 800 mg of cimetidine 30 to 60 mins before dinner at night daily. They need to be taken apart as the PPI needs acidic activation, so taking an H2 blocker at the same time or shortly before may blunt the PPIs activation (since there's not enough acid to activate it).

PPIs work over a longer time period but can deliver greater overall acid suppression close to 98% and have a more durable effect (24 to 48 hours). Cimetidine is faster acting but achieves only about 60 to 70% of acid suppression and its effect is less durable than that of PPIs (4 to 8 hours).

Antacids are extremely short term and are used to neutralize the existing stomach acid alone. So it makes sense for them to be taken just about 45 mins prior to CTB. Their effect lasts only about 30 to 60 mins.

I've read some reports here by people who took way less than is recommended in PPEH (just a few grams) and would very likely had died were they not 'rescued'. Interestingly they didn't report any serious adverse effects. In general they were quite positive about the method and said that they would use it again. The only drawback was a longer time to unconsciousness. There is also a report of a nurse who died from as little as 1 gram of SN. Do you think that taking a large amount (20+ grams) would actually cause most of the suffering and pain that some people unfortunately have experienced? To me it seems logical after reading what you said about the chemical reactions taking place in the stomach and how they probably could cause chemical burns in it and pain. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's just my opinion, but I think it's very irresponsible of Nitschke to recommend such high doses when a way smaller ones are lethal. Why? Because the more the better? One article I've read stated that for humans a lethal dose is somewhere between 0.7 and 3.6 grams. Other source stated a lethal dose to be 78 mg/kg of body weight. Even so, with my body weight (60 kg.) I'd only need 4.6 gr. And even if I double that it would be 9.2 gr. Why on Earth would I need to take 20 or 25 gr? I want to euthanize myself (euthanasia actually means 'good death') and not to simply execute myself.

Once I read somewhere that if you live by the book you'll die from a mistake in it. For so many people PPEH is like the Bible and they would rather follow it by the letter because it is THE BOOK than do any extra research and learn from as many experiences as they can, and there are plenty of those on this site.

Also, LD50 is not a good reference for humans, as these values are derived from tests on animals, mostly rats and rats are generally known to tolerate way higher doses of poisons than humans.

I'm looking forward to your reply!

 

[Endisclose]

I've read some reports here by people who took way less than is recommended in PPEH (just a few grams) and would very likely had died were they not 'rescued'. Interestingly they didn't report any serious adverse effects. In general they were quite positive about the method and said that they would use it again. The only drawback was a longer time to unconsciousness. There is also a report of a nurse who died from as little as 1 gram of SN. Do you think that taking a large amount (20+ grams) would actually cause most of the suffering and pain that some people unfortunately have experienced? To me it seems logical after reading what you said about the chemical reactions taking place in the stomach and how they probably could cause chemical burns in it and pain. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's just my opinion, but I think it's very irresponsible of Nitschke to recommend such high doses when a way smaller ones are lethal. Why? Because the more the better? One article I've read stated that for humans a lethal dose is somewhere between 0.7 and 3.6 grams. Other source stated a lethal dose to be 78 mg/kg of body weight. Even so, with my body weight (60 kg.) I'd only need 4.6 gr. And even if I double that it would be 9.2 gr. Why on Earth would I need to take 20 or 25 gr? I want to euthanize myself (euthanasia actually means 'good death') and not to simply execute myself.

Once I read somewhere that if you live by the book you'll die from a mistake in it. For so many people PPEH is like the Bible and they would rather follow it by the letter because it is THE BOOK than do any extra research and learn from as many experiences as they can, and there are plenty of those on this site.

Also, LD50 is not a good reference for humans, as these values are derived from tests on animals, mostly rats and rats are generally known to tolerate way higher doses of poisons than humans.

I'm looking forward to your reply!

Yes I have come across accounts where people who have taken small amounts have CTB'ed successfully. But I think I vaguely remember reading about one failed attempt in this forum where the OP took about 7 or 8 g if my memory serves me right and reported to have woken up the next day. I think he mentioned vomiting the SN partially or substantially after passing out. That sort of thing just makes me very apprehensive from deviating from the protocol.

If you come to think of it, I haven't come across a single failed case where someone has stuck to the protocol. Most of the failed cases as far as I've seen have taken lesser than the recommended amount of SN, not taken antiemetics or mixed the SN with other substances like alcohol or other drugs that cause an undesired reaction.

Sorry to disappoint you though, I am not one of those who believe in the PPeH as some sort of bible but I think there is wisdom in sticking to the protocol. I've done an extensive amount of research on SN, looked at successful and failed cases and finally come to the conclusion that it might be a good idea to go along with what the experts have recommended.

Sure 25 g might be overkill for someone who is say 55 kg. I think anywhere between 15 to 20 g would still do the job and and that has to be a personal decision. But I wouldn't go below that if you ask me. In fact I am tempted to get my weight up to 75 kg in which case 25 g should be perfectly OK.

As regards the pain, yes it's caused by acidic components coming in contact with the mucosa inside, activating the pain receptors, but I don't think it would cause any long term damage. If one survives, the body should be able to heal itself in a relatively short amount of time maybe a couple of weeks to a month max. I don't believe the pain would be of a magnitude that would make it unbearable. I think it might just be like a stomach ache that one gets when having indigestion or acidity. CTB is not an easy business. I think it would be unrealistic to expect it to be devoid of any discomfort. I think it would be prudent to know beforehand what to expect and be prepared for it as much as one could possibly be.

One other thing one has to watch out for is anxiety. Anxiety is nothing but the fear of death. This is directly caused by SI. So addressing that, SI would go a long way to help I believe. The way SI related anxiety works is by propping up fears that have no factual basis in reality as something that's imminent or inevitable . The only way to tackle it is to examine the evidence and soundness of reasoning in light of known facts and see if the conclusion is valid or justified.

 

[UltimateTrip]

Thank you for the reply!

Yes I have come across accounts where people who have taken small amounts have CTB'ed successfully. But I think I vaguely remember reading about one failed attempt in this forum where the OP took about 7 or 8 g if my memory serves me right and reported to have woken up the next day. I think he mentioned vomiting the SN partially or substantially after passing out. That sort of thing just makes me very apprehensive from deviating from the protocol.

Yes, there was such a case, although people also vomited and survived from higher doses. So if it happened to me, I'd rather fail from a smaller amount and then just increase it somewhat during the next attempt then survive a higher amount and have a more difficult recovery. I also think that taking a reasonable dose )in my view) will reduce the risk of vomiting, or if I were to vomit at least it would be easier to keep SN for long enough for it to be fully absorbed.

But I completely understand why you would want to stick to the protocol.

If you come to think of it, I haven't come across a single failed case where someone has stuck to the protocol. Most of the failed cases as far as I've seen have taken lesser than the recommended amount of SN, not taken antiemetics or mixed the SN with other substances like alcohol or other drugs that cause an undesired reaction.

Sorry to disappoint you though, I am not one of those who believe in the PPeH as some sort of bible but I think there is wisdom in sticking to the protocol. I've done an extensive amount of research on SN, looked at successful and failed cases and finally come to the conclusion that it might be a good idea to go along with what the experts have recommended.

In so many cases people were found and 'saved', or chickened out or just didn't do the thing that is the most essential - fasting (avoiding alcohol is part of that in my opinion). As for the recommended supplementary drugs in the PPH protocol, well... which protocol exactly? They updated it and I won't be surprised if they change it again and again which would mean that the current one is not that good after all, just like was the previous one.

They marketed re-breather, then they removed it from the book. They spoke of the Korean method and then presented some devices and techniques meant to imitate it without explaining how actually to CTB using only one's fingers (if it's at all possible) which actually was the original Korean Method. At a presentation PN says SN is BS (or something like that) but still gives it high ranking in the book. At another presentation when asked about a certain drug PN advises a dose which is enough to OD. In the book he says that the estimated lethal dose for a human is approximately 5 grams of SN but then in the actual protocol recommends doses that are 4-6 times higher. Why not 2 times, or 3 or...let's say 7? Why exactly those numbers? Based on what studies/research/tests? Some Chinese guy took 50 grams and suffered terribly.

They did compile a book that has useful information in it, but also it has information that only raises questions and doubts in many.

The other thing is that even if some people wanted to follow the protocol to the letter, they simply wouldn't be able to because not everyone has access to the recommended drugs. Just like me. All I have is 1) SN, 2) amitriptyline or a crappy Soviet-epoch first generation benzo for an anxiolitic, 3) Dramamine and/or CBD for an AE, 4) ibuprofen and 5) an antacid, which in the updated protocol isn't even recommended. So, does that mean that if we can't follow the protocol we would fail and shouldn't even consider the method? Of course not.

But again, that is just my POV and I understand why you would want to stick to the protocol - people did CTB following it or following it as closely as possible.

Sure 25 g might be overkill for someone who is say 55 kg. I think anywhere between 15 to 20 g would still do the job and and that has to be a personal decision. But I wouldn't go below that if you ask me. In fact I am tempted to get my weight up to 75 kg in which case 25 g should be perfectly OK.

I hear you... And I hope that this works for you just as you hope that it will, truly!

As regards the pain, yes it's caused by acidic components coming in contact with the mucosa inside, activating the pain receptors, but I don't think it would cause any long term damage. If one survives, the body should be able to heal itself in a relatively short amount of time maybe a couple of weeks to a month max. I don't believe the pain would be of a magnitude that would make it unbearable. I think it might just be like a stomach ache that one gets when having indigestion or acidity. CTB is not an easy business. I think it would be unrealistic to expect it to be devoid of any discomfort. I think it would be prudent to know beforehand what to expect and be prepared for it as much as one could possibly be.

For most, probably, the experience is not unbearable. But the OP said that his dear friends died in pain (an not a mild one, as I understood) which, of course, caused him pain too, and all this is very unfortunate. And that's why we're having this discussion - to better understand what could have caused this and how to prevent it.

So, people mostly complain of headache, stomach pain, nausea and vomiting. There are also other symptoms but they don't seems to cause much distress or discomfort in most people.

As far as I understand,

1) the headache can be eased or prevented by a) taking a painkiller, b) reducing the amount of irritant gas that is produced due to SN conversion in the stomach by taking an antacid. An antacid will lead to somewhat increased time till LOC but will speed up the death itself OR c) using enteric capsules to prevent SN from any contact with the acid in the stomach, but this will significantly increase the time of the whole process, which might not be an option for some;

2) the stomach pain can be reduced by a) taking the same measures that are mentioned above and/or b) avoiding excessive amounts of SN to reduce irritation (my definition of 'sufficient' is based on the estimated lethal dose of 78 mg/kg of body weight, not on PPH. Those who want to follow PPH - that's you right and choice, but taking even more than that is just absurd in my opinion).

3) a probability of nausea and vomiting can be reduced by a) taking an AE (no 100% guarantee, many people feel nauseous and vomit regardless), b) fasting (a must), c) avoiding excessive amounts of supplementary medication (I don't see any point in exceeding the doses that are recommended by the manufacturer, the body will be under stress from SN alone, so no need to overload it any more than necessary), d) avoiding unnecessary medications and/or substances (some of which can have nausea and vomiting as possible side effects), e) avoiding excessive amounts of SN (see above), f) reducing the amount of irritant gas that is produced due to SN conversion in the stomach by taking an antacid (no Meto then, but it guarantees nothing anyway), g) for those who can gag from the taste alone gelatin capsules might be a better option (no antacid then).

Thoughts/critique are welcome...

One other thing one has to watch out for is anxiety. Anxiety is nothing but the fear of death. This is directly caused by SI. So addressing that, SI would go a long way to help I believe. The way SI related anxiety works is by propping up fears that have no factual basis in reality as something that's imminent or inevitable . The only way to tackle it is to examine the evidence and soundness of reasoning in light of known facts and see if the conclusion is valid or justified.

Agree!

 

[Endisclose]

Yes, there was such a case, although people also vomited and survived from higher doses.

Have you come across any cases where people have stuck to the protocol? ie., done fasting, taken AEs, with SN at the recommended amount and survived without themselves calling for help or being found and rescued. If so, can you send me the link to any such cases?

So if it happened to me, I'd rather fail from a smaller amount and then just increase it somewhat during the next attempt then survive a higher amount and have a more difficult recovery. I also think that taking a reasonable dose )in my view) will reduce the risk of vomiting, or if I were to vomit at least it would be easier to keep SN for long enough for it to be fully absorbed.

I think the best option against vomiting is antiemetics specifically meto more specifically the stat dose which leaves more meto in the system than the 48 hour regime. Meto is the only AE that crosses the blood brain barrier and shuts down the CTZ (chemoreceptor trigger zone) also known as the vomiting center. Antipsychotics are said to work as well. Meto is actually a first generation antipsychotics. But I haven't researched them as much.

As for the recommended supplementary drugs in the PPH protocol, well... which protocol exactly? They updated it and I won't be surprised if they change it again and again which would mean that the current one is not that good after all, just like was the previous one.

I think they did so to make the protocol easier for people who are having sourcing difficulties and also to make it simpler to follow. But I'd say the earlier ones where the PPIs, H2 blockers, antacids were part of the regimen are probably the way to go.

They marketed re-breather, then they removed it from the book. They spoke of the Korean method and then presented some devices and techniques meant to imitate it without explaining how actually to CTB using only one's fingers (if it's at all possible) which actually was the original Korean Method. At a presentation PN says SN is BS (or something like that) but still gives it high ranking in the book. At another presentation when asked about a certain drug PN advises a dose which is enough to OD. In the book he says that the estimated lethal dose for a human is approximately 5 grams of SN but then in the actual protocol recommends doses that are 4-6 times higher. Why not 2 times, or 3 or...let's say 7? Why exactly those numbers? Based on what studies/research/tests?

I gather you've come across some inconsistencies in the PPeH and the people who publish it. But there are enough documented cases of both successful and unsuccessful attempts in this forum from which a lot can be learnt. Surely if a certain combination works several times over, one presumes there must be some merit in it.

SN Successful and Unsuccessful

I have tried to put a brief summary of all the attempts, assumed successful and unsuccessful, of SN suicide. These are all posts that the member has made to document the method, news articles, and scientific articles. If I have missed any I apologise and it would be great if you can add them to...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Some Chinese guy took 50 grams and suffered terribly.

Well that is one case where one can learn what not to do.

The other thing is that even if some people wanted to follow the protocol to the letter, they simply wouldn't be able to because not everyone has access to the recommended drugs. Just like me. All I have is 1) SN, 2) amitriptyline or a crappy Soviet-epoch first generation benzo for an anxiolitic, 3) Dramamine and/or CBD for an AE, 4) ibuprofen and 5) an antacid, which in the updated protocol isn't even recommended. So, does that mean that if we can't follow the protocol we would fail and shouldn't even consider the method? Of course not.

I think not having AEs is where your anxiety is coming from mainly. Thankfully I have meto, benzos and all the supplementary drugs that are required. If I didn't, I'd be freaking out as well, probably more than you. I'd probably be looking at an alternative method if I didn't have those to be honest. So I understand you completely.

I think if I did not have AEs and if SN were to be my method, I'd have 2 or 3 backup cups ready and also have plenty of air sickness bags or maybe a vomiting bucket at hand. Without AEs one would be sure to throw up, but the second cup should do the job. A lower dose could delay LOC. The PPeH says LOC happens at the 12 min mark at the recommended dose. I'd take the supplementary drugs if available to keep NO production down.

So, people mostly complain of headache, stomach pain, nausea and vomiting. There are also other symptoms but they don't seems to cause much distress or discomfort in most people.

I have read accounts of a young girl who went into panic mode almost immediately after ingesting the SN and expressed instant regrets. I think it may have been due to the tachycardia. It may also be a reason why so many people start calling for help. Propranolol will help deal with that. But my preference is not to take it cause that's a sign that would tell me the SN is working. So knowing what to expect is pretty crucial and also to resolve any SI issues beforehand. I think young people who are not entirely sure if they want to CTB are more likely to abort due to high SI.

As far as I understand,

1) the headache can be eased or prevented by a) taking a painkiller, b) reducing the amount of irritant gas that is produced due to SN conversion in the stomach by taking an antacid.

Not just antacids alone but mainly PPIs and H2 blockers are needed to achieve maximal acid suppression. PPIs are the best recommended way delivering close to 98% while H2 blockers deliver only about 68 to 70%, while antacids neutralize only the existing acid in the stomach. So ideally it should be a combination of the three.

Also PPIs need time to work like at least a week. For people with acid reflux issues a course of 4 to 8 weeks is recommended. I think 40 mg of nexium 30 to 60 mins before breakfast and 800 mg of cimetidine about 30 to 60 mins before dinner for a week should keep acid levels low. I guess antacids can be taken about 45 mins prior to CTB. PPI and H2 blockers need to be taken apart as the PPI needs acidic environment for activation. In terms of potency of acid suppression PPIs >H2 blockers>antacids.

An antacid will lead to somewhat increased time till LOC but will speed up the death itself

Not sure if either of these are factually correct. If SN is taken as a solution, I don't think it will have any impact in terms of time as SN is not like food which needs acid to be broken down, once the solution passes to the small intestine, it should be easily absorbed. I don't think antacids speed up time to CTB. Not sure I see the connection there.

OR c) using enteric capsules to prevent SN from any contact with the acid in the stomach, but this will significantly increase the time of the whole process, which might not be an option for some;

It's not just the delay, with SN it's recommended to take it in a single shot giving the system less time to react. There have been cases where it's been taken sip by sip and people have ended with a failed attempt, I am not sure how the enteric capsules release their contents, like if they do it all at once that should be the ideal scenario, but if they do it slowly similar to the sip by sip way, not sure what the outcome there might be. But generally if the contents make it to the small intestine, it cannot be vomitted out, so it may still work. Anyway I haven't researched this much to be sure.

3) a probability of nausea and vomiting can be reduced by a) taking an AE (no 100% guarantee, many people feel nauseous and vomit regardless),

Yes there are no guarantees, but it's the best defence or preparation against it. That's all one can do.

b) fasting (a must), c) avoiding excessive amounts of supplementary medication (I don't see any point in exceeding the doses that are recommended by the manufacturer, the body will be under stress from SN alone, so no need to overload it any more than necessary), d) avoiding unnecessary medications and/or substances (some of which can have nausea and vomiting as possible side effects),

Agree.

e) avoiding excessive amounts of SN (see above),

Excessive no, but adequate yes. What these actually are is a personal decision really based on what one is comfortable with.

f) reducing the amount of irritant gas that is produced due to SN conversion in the stomach by taking an antacid (no Meto then, but it guarantees nothing anyway),

Ideally PPIs, H2 blockers, and antacids

g) for those who can gag from the taste alone gelatin capsules might be a better option (no antacid then).

I am not sure I'll be going for these. I think the enteric ones may be preferable to the Gelatin ones as at least they would have gotten into the small intestine from where it can't be vomitted. If the gelatin capsules are delayed in terms of digestion, which may very well happen in case of an alkaline environment, they can release SN slowly like the sip by sip way and may end up in a failed attempt.

 

[UltimateTrip]

Have you come across any cases where people have stuck to the protocol? ie., done fasting, taken AEs, with SN at the recommended amount and survived without themselves calling for help or being found and rescued. If so, can you send me the link to any such cases?

It would take me days probably just to reread everything I've read in order to give you an accurate answer. So I'll simply give you a point on this one. If I do encounter such a case I will let you know.

I think the best option against vomiting is antiemetics specifically meto more specifically the stat dose which leaves more meto in the system than the 48 hour regime. Meto is the only AE that crosses the blood brain barrier and shuts down the CTZ (chemoreceptor trigger zone) also known as the vomiting center. Antipsychotics are said to work as well. Meto is actually a first generation antipsychotics. But I haven't researched them as much.

It's not like I advise against it or say it's useless. If I had it I'd take, but also realizing that it would not guarantee anything.

I gather you've come across some inconsistencies in the PPeH and the people who publish it. But there are enough documented cases of both successful and unsuccessful attempts in this forum from which a lot can be learnt. Surely if a certain combination works several times over, one presumes there must be some merit in it.

SN Successful and Unsuccessful

I have tried to put a brief summary of all the attempts, assumed successful and unsuccessful, of SN suicide. These are all posts that the member has made to document the method, news articles, and scientific articles. If I have missed any I apologise and it would be great if you can add them to...

sanctioned-suicide.net

That's why I understand why you and many other people want to stick with the protocol and I respect the decision. But I also believe that the same could be achieved with less SN. So, without dissuading anyone from the decision to follow the protocol I will follow a different path. If I succeed I'll prove my point, if not I'll have to rethink my approach and will share my experience for the benefit of others.

P.S. That is if don't manage to make the ligature method work for me, which for now is my primary method.

Well that is one case where one can learn what not to do.

Yep.

I think not having AEs is where your anxiety is coming from mainly. Thankfully I have meto, benzos and all the supplementary drugs that are required. If I didn't, I'd be freaking out as well, probably more than you. I'd probably be looking at an alternative method if I didn't have those to be honest. So I understand you completely.

I think if I did not have AEs and if SN were to be my method, I'd have 2 or 3 backup cups ready and also have plenty of air sickness bags or maybe a vomiting bucket at hand. Without AEs one would be sure to throw up, but the second cup should do the job. A lower dose could delay LOC. The PPeH says LOC happens at the 12 min mark at the recommended dose. I'd take the supplementary drugs if available to keep NO production down.

No, no my main concern is not nausea or puking, I've experienced that many times during my life. Is this unpleasant? Yes. Am I afraid of it? No. I'd surely have a bucket and an extra dose by my bed. What worries me most is the loss of determination during the process, before LOC and TOD. That's why my primary method for now is ligature - I do know that I will pass out in seconds without any pain or discomfort (due to the tests I conducted on myself).

Honestly if I were to choose between an AE and a good benzo for the SN method I'd choose benzo.

I have read accounts of a young girl who went into panic mode almost immediately after ingesting the SN and expressed instant regrets. I think it may have been due to the tachycardia. It may also be a reason why so many people start calling for help. Propranolol will help deal with that. But my preference is not to take it cause that's a sign that would tell me the SN is working. So knowing what to expect is pretty crucial and also to resolve any SI issues beforehand. I think young people who are not entirely sure if they want to CTB are more likely to abort due to high SI.

Good point. I haven't read a single report where tachycardia caused pain, the discomfort is mainly psychological.

Not just antacids alone but mainly PPIs and H2 blockers are needed to achieve maximal acid suppression. PPIs are the best recommended way delivering close to 98% while H2 blockers deliver only about 68 to 70%, while antacids neutralize only the existing acid in the stomach. So ideally it should be a combination of the three.

Also PPIs need time to work like at least a week. For people with acid reflux issues a course of 4 to 8 weeks is recommended. I think 40 mg of nexium 30 to 60 mins before breakfast and 800 mg of cimetidine about 30 to 60 mins before dinner for a week should keep acid levels low. I guess antacids can be taken about 45 mins prior to CTB. PPI and H2 blockers need to be taken apart as the PPI needs acidic environment for activation. In terms of potency of acid suppression PPIs >H2 blockers>antacids.

I tend to agree with Stan: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-a-comprehensive-guide-including-method.25148/post-457286. Acid reduction is necessary for a brief period of time, while SN is in the stomach and before it's released in the small intestine, which is only minutes, maybe 10-15 minutes max (people start feeling the initial effects of SN after a few minutes already). Besides, what about all the other meds from the regimen that require stomach acid to be broken down, especially those that come in capsules? How will higher PH effect their effectiveness?

Not sure if either of these are factually correct. If SN is taken as a solution, I don't think it will have any impact in terms of time as SN is not like food which needs acid to be broken down, once the solution passes to the small intestine, it should be easily absorbed. I don't think antacids speed up time to CTB. Not sure I see the connection there.

An antacid reduces the amount of produced byproducts in the stomach, including NO. NO can cause an acute drop of blood pressure, which would lead to a more rapid LOC. https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-a-comprehensive-guide-including-method.25148/post-488151 .

But production of all those byproducts in the stomach means that less SN will be released into the smaller intestine where it is actually absorbed. Less SN to be absorbed = more time for it to do its job due to lower concentration. Just lately I saw a reference to the PPH itself (I think) in regards to this but I can't find it now. If/when I do I'll share the link.

It's not just the delay, with SN it's recommended to take it in a single shot giving the system less time to react. There have been cases where it's been taken sip by sip and people have ended with a failed attempt, I am not sure how the enteric capsules release their contents, like if they do it all at once that should be the ideal scenario, but if they do it slowly similar to the sip by sip way, not sure what the outcome there might be. But generally if the contents make it to the small intestine, it cannot be vomitted out, so it may still work. Anyway I haven't researched this much to be sure.

Well, when people took it sip by sip they did take their time with it. In one case it was a whole hour or something like that. And regarding the capsules, the 0 or 00 sized ones would be a better option as the overall amount of the material to be dissolved will be less, they most likely will be released and dissolved at the same time or with a very small interval. And if taken on an empty stomach I doubt there should be any reason for concern.

In my opinion with the enteric capsules one would only need a good amount of benzos or other strong sedative to knock one out for a long period of time and let the whole process happen while one's in deep sleep. One might also want to take a painkiller, just in case. If this method is as good as I think it is it could probably even rival N in some ways, mostly due to the accessibility of the stuff and the price. But the principle is generally the same - one goes to sleep and never wakes up. Damn, having written this up this method seems like it could be THE SN METHOD. If you or someone else on this forum know any reason why this would not work, I'd like to know.

I am not sure I'll be going for these. I think the enteric ones may be preferable to the Gelatin ones as at least they would have gotten into the small intestine from where it can't be vomitted. If the gelatin capsules are delayed in terms of digestion, which may very well happen in case of an alkaline environment, they can release SN slowly like the sip by sip way and may end up in a failed attempt.

No stomach acid reduction if one is to take SN in gelatin capsules - that's for sure!

As for the time it will take for them to dissolve - under normal stomach conditions a gelatin capsule begins to disintegrate within 1-2 minutes and fully dissolves within 5-20 minutes. Key factors are: stomach acidity, amount of moisture (with only a glass of water dissolution is fastest - closer to the 5-minute mark), amount of food (the emptier the stomach the better). This is a summary of the answer given by AI. Nothing critical in terms of delay, I think.

 

[Endisclose]

It would take me days probably just to reread everything I've read in order to give you an accurate answer. So I'll simply give you a point on this one. If I do encounter such a case I will let you know.

I think the fact that one has to search for it in itself should be a strong indicator that even if such a thing happened, it might be extremely rare. Given that's the case, I think I'll take my chances..

It's not like I advise against it or say it's useless. If I had it I'd take, but also realizing that it would not guarantee anything.

I really wonder and wish we had more data to know how reliable meto is as an AE for SN.

That's why I understand why you and many other people want to stick with the protocol and I respect the decision. But I also believe that the same could be achieved with less SN. So, without dissuading anyone from the decision to follow the protocol I will follow a different path. If I succeed I'll prove my point, if not I'll have to rethink my approach and will share my experience for the benefit of others.

True people have CTB'ed successfully with lesser amounts. So I guess the idea is very much valid and worth a shot.

No, no my main concern is not nausea or puking, I've experienced that many times during my life. Is this unpleasant? Yes. Am I afraid of it? No. I'd surely have a bucket and an extra dose by my bed. What worries me most is the loss of determination during the process, before LOC and TOD.

True, this would be much more of a concern if taken with benzos as LOC would happen much faster. But as far as I know from cases I've read, vomiting happens pretty early, either immediately or around the 5 min mark and LOC usually takes place around the 12 min mark, in case of lesser SN ingestion probably longer, so one would think one would have plenty of time for a second cup.

I just feel at the recommended dosage, even if vomiting takes place, I feel there could still be enough SN left in the system to CTB. Maybe the dose is so high keeping just that in mind and also including a buffer value for possible nitrite loss through stomach acid.

I tend to agree with Stan: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-a-comprehensive-guide-including-method.25148/post-457286. Acid reduction is necessary for a brief period of time, while SN is in the stomach and before it's released in the small intestine, which is only minutes, maybe 10-15 minutes max (people start feeling the initial effects of SN after a few minutes already). Besides, what about all the other meds from the regimen that require stomach acid to be broken down, especially those that come in capsules? How will higher PH effect their effectiveness?



An antacid reduces the amount of produced byproducts in the stomach, including NO. NO can cause an acute drop of blood pressure, which would lead to a more rapid LOC. https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-a-comprehensive-guide-including-method.25148/post-488151 .

You raise some valid points here. Ideally one would want the meto to have peaked at the time of taking SN. From what I've read from AI, it says time of onset can be delayed by about 15 to 20 mins. So one would have to factor that in if one is going for acid reduction.

Meto is apparently water soluble in acidic, neutral or alkaline environments. But there's one point - if taken, they have to be taken with antacids both of which work in opposite directions. Meto speeds up gastric emptying while antacids slows it down. I think I may have to think this through.

Personally I'd prefer greater certainty over any discomfort. It's not really the pain, but the possible reduction of urge to vomit that makes acid reduction a worthwhile prospect. But I guess I'll do a little more research on this. There have been other cases where people haven't taken any supplementary drugs and haven't reported any major pain like in the thread below..

Another successful CTB with SN report

Last night, SuicideKurt took SN and died peacefully. Her protocol was: approximately 16 hours of fasting, 30mg Metoclopramide 40 minutes before SN intake, 30mg Diazepam 8 minutes before SN. Exact amount of SN is unknown, but it's safe to assume it was a standard dose of 20 or 25g. Here's a...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Could this be down to individual body chemistry, maybe people with lower stomach acid levels have lesser pain?

In light of all this, I am considering skipping the propranolol either way, just seems unnecessary.

But production of all those byproducts in the stomach means that less SN will be released into the smaller intestine where it is actually absorbed. Less SN to be absorbed = more time for it to do its job due to lower concentration. Just lately I saw a reference to the PPH itself (I think) in regards to this but I can't find it now. If/when I do I'll share the link.

Honestly, I don't think the amount lost will be significant enough to have any adverse impact. But if the amount of SN taken is less obviously that becomes a bit of a factor, but I still think it shouldn't be a major worry. I am more concerned about the NO and NO2 production that could cause the urge to vomit.

Well, when people took it sip by sip they did take their time with it. In one case it was a whole hour or something like that. And regarding the capsules, the 0 or 00 sized ones would be a better option as the overall amount of the material to be dissolved will be less, they most likely will be released and dissolved at the same time or with a very small interval. And if taken on an empty stomach I doubt there should be any reason for concern.

In my opinion with the enteric capsules one would only need a good amount of benzos or other strong sedative to knock one out for a long period of time and let the whole process happen while one's in deep sleep. One might also want to take a painkiller, just in case. If this method is as good as I think it is it could probably even rival N in some ways, mostly due to the accessibility of the stuff and the price. But the principle is generally the same - one goes to sleep and never wakes up. Damn, having written this up this method seems like it could be THE SN METHOD. If you or someone else on this forum know any reason why this would not work, I'd like to know.

Yes it does look like the perfect method. Especially for people who can't source AEs. Perhaps it can offer greater certainty of CTB if it can ensure passage of SN to the small intestine without incident.

As for the time it will take for them to dissolve - under normal stomach conditions a gelatin capsule begins to disintegrate within 1-2 minutes and fully dissolves within 5-20 minutes. Key factors are: stomach acidity, amount of moisture (with only a glass of water dissolution is fastest - closer to the 5-minute mark), amount of food (the emptier the stomach the better). This is a summary of the answer given by AI. Nothing critical in terms of delay, I think.

 

[Dante_]

While its clear you're both very engaged in a discussion on sn, you've turned someone else's thread into a back and forth and at some point, you've gotta wrap it up or make a post of your own.

 

[UltimateTrip]

I just feel at the recommended dosage, even if vomiting takes place, I feel there could still be enough SN left in the system to CTB. Maybe the dose is so high keeping just that in mind and also including a buffer value for possible nitrite loss through stomach acid.

It makes sense, I only question the amount they recommend to increases the dose by. That's why I'm leaning towards the use of an antacid so that I can achieve the same with less and avoid production of all those nasty byproducts in the stomach.

Personally I'd prefer greater certainty over any discomfort. It's not really the pain, but the possible reduction of urge to vomit that makes acid reduction a worthwhile prospect. But I guess I'll do a little more research on this. There have been other cases where people haven't taken any supplementary drugs and haven't reported any major pain like in the thread below..

According to that report she did take Meto and Diazepam. I'm glad that here passing was peaceful.

Could this be down to individual body chemistry, maybe people with lower stomach acid levels have lesser pain?

That would make sense, I guess.

Honestly, I don't think the amount lost will be significant enough to have any adverse impact. But if the amount of SN taken is less obviously that becomes a bit of a factor, but I still think it shouldn't be a major worry. I am more concerned about the NO and NO2 production that could cause the urge to vomit.

And also salt, if I'm not mistaken. It also irritates the stomach and can add to the overall nausea and discomfort.

While its clear you're both very engaged in a discussion on sn, you've turned someone else's thread into a back and forth and at some point, you've gotta wrap it up or make a post of your own.

I guess you're right. I just hoped that we could come to certain conclusions that would help make SN a more peaceful method, since the thread is about the efficacy and peacefulness of nitrites. So that other people hopefully don't suffer in their last moments like the people mentioned in the original post.

But I apologize if our discussion was out of place and offended others. I'm wrapping this up.

My sincere condolences to the OP...

 

[Endisclose]

While its clear you're both very engaged in a discussion on sn, you've turned someone else's thread into a back and forth and at some point, you've gotta wrap it up or make a post of your own.

I am sorry, but as the title of the thread says "on the efficacy and peacefulness of nitrates", I thought we were making several points that might shed light - especially on the peacefulness part that might be of interest to others in the community. Maybe a little voluble but, as far as I know, relevant to the subject of the thread nonetheless. But if people don't see any value in this, I am quite amenable in taking this to a private space..Let me assure you there was no intention on my part to hijack someone else's thread.

 

[Dante_]

I am sorry, but as the title of the thread says "on the efficacy and peacefulness of nitrates", I thought we were making several points that might shed light - especially on the peacefulness part that might be of interest to others in the community. Maybe a little voluble but, as far as I know, relevant to the subject of the thread nonetheless. But if people don't see any value in this, I am quite amenable in taking this to a private space..Let me assure you there was no intention on my part to hijack someone else's thread.

Yeah im aware but there's already been tons of threads dissecting and discussing the peacefulness of sn over the years, all i said was at some point, it has to be concluded because you can only go so far regarding points exchanged each and every time.

 

[Endisclose]

Yeah im aware but there's already been tons of threads dissecting and discussing the peacefulness of sn over the years, all i said was at some point, it has to be concluded because you can only go so far regarding points exchanged each and every time.

Honestly, this was the first time I've read about enteric coated capsules for SN and I've been here for nearly 2 years. I am wondering if I should use the search function now to see how much a certain topic has been discussed before making a comment on it myself..which sounds absurd and like regulating free speech.

I am also wondering if the objection was more because of the "back and forth" thing. I am autistic and sometimes have no clue generally as to what rule I am offending in the context of a public/civil discussion. I understand it's considered impolite for two people to "turn a group discussion into a private one" but as long as the exchanges are not veering away from the subject of the thread and if they aren't excluding others from participating like it might in a face to face meeting, I fail to see what the problem is.

If there is a definite rule like "more than 3 or 4 consecutive exchanges, even if relevant to the subject of the thread is impolite and offensive to the group and must be avoided", that is enforced uniformly, then that is something that will be infinitely more helpful. So a little more clarity would be appreciated.

 

[FireWalkWithMe]

Thanks for your contribution and thoughts.

It has never made sense to me that it's claimed as a peaceful death by some, both because of the accounts and the nature of the beast that is poisoning. There should at least be the word potentially in there. Which of course leaves open the possibility it will not be peaceful.

I think there needs to be some realism about the fact we're talking about ingesting a lethal poison here. The default assumption should really be that ingesting a lethal poison will at least entail some discomfort, possibly pain as it makes it's way through the digestive system which it will be extremely harsh with. From there the effect on oxygen uptake.

Then from there you can compare against other available methods. At the end of the day everything has it's pros and cons but it's disingenuous not to present the reality of SN. We should not be in the business of mollycoddling the situation nor scaremongering, objectivity matters.

 

[UltimateTrip]

Thanks for your contribution and thoughts.

It has never made sense to me that it's claimed as a peaceful death by some, both because of the accounts and the nature of the beast that is poisoning. There should at least be the word potentially in there. Which of course leaves open the possibility it will not be peaceful.

I think there needs to be some realism about the fact we're talking about ingesting a lethal poison here. The default assumption should really be that ingesting a lethal poison will at least entail some discomfort, possibly pain as it makes it's way through the digestive system which it will be extremely harsh with. From there the effect on oxygen uptake.

Then from there you can compare against other available methods. At the end of the day everything has it's pros and cons but it's disingenuous not to present the reality of SN. We should not be in the business of mollycoddling the situation nor scaremongering, objectivity matters.

Also, with poisons you can't make a test run to learn how this or that stuff will affect you personally and at least mentally prepare yourself. Well, some people did so with SN, in very small quantities, but it's not something to mess with and is not recommended. Some other methods, on the other hand, do offer such a possibility. One could inhale a non-lethal amount of an inert gas in a safe setting, for example. Or do test runs with a ligature material. So many people feel very anxious because they can't know for sure how their bodies will react and what they will experience after ingesting/inhaling a poison.

 

[Endisclose]

The default assumption should really be that ingesting a lethal poison will at least entail some discomfort, possibly pain as it makes it's way through the digestive system which it will be extremely harsh with

I agree with the first half of your sentence but not necessarily the second. There have been reports of discomfort but none as far as I know of excruciating pain or agony or anything like that. So while it can be uncomfortable I doubt if it would be "extremely harsh" in terms of any pain or damage to the gastric mucosa specifically though.

If I remember correctly OP reports the usage of the word "ouchie" by Shroomia. Now I am not a linguist but if you allow me a little dabbling in semantics, the word to me represents discomfort similar to the sharp pains one may experience with say indigestion and flatulence.

In my perception and as far as I have researched, with SN it's like a switch where there are only two possibilities. Either one will make it or else if one doesn't, there are no major consequences leaving one capable enough to have a second go, which is what makes the method so attractive for someone like me. The reason I believe so is that if there were any really adverse effects, the pro-life mainstream media would have gone to town about it and it would not be nearly as popular a method as it is around here.

I don't expect it to be without discomfort. The PPeH gives it a rating of 7 out of 10. When one considers the overall picture, I think it's a good deal.

From there the effect on oxygen uptake.

I think this is what does the major pulling as far as CTB is concerned.

Then from there you can compare against other available methods. At the end of the day everything has it's pros and cons but it's disingenuous not to present the reality of SN. We should not be in the business of mollycoddling the situation nor scaremongering, objectivity matters.

Absolutely agree 100 percent

So many people feel very anxious because they can't know for sure how their bodies will react and what they will experience after ingesting/inhaling a poison.

Very true, there are variations in body chemistry that may have a say in the level of discomfort one may experience with SN but based on what we know, I don't think the pain factor should necessarily cause as much concern as one may feel with other poisons like methanol or ethylene glycol for instance. Of course this is very subjective as tolerance to pain varies from person to person and also preferences as to how they want their final journey to be.

 

[UltimateTrip]

This is directly related to the topic of the thread and might be helpful to users here... Although the article I'll be quoting is referring to feral pigs, the specific points I'll be addressing can also be considered from a human perspective. We belong to the animal kingdom, whether we want it or not.

"The pH of the bait (in our case water solution?*) should be 7 or higher to inhibit decomposition of sodium nitrite into bitter products. It is preferred that the pH should be higher than 7. It is particularly preferred to incorporate an alkaline material into the bait, such as calcium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate (baking soda*), that can neutralize stomach acid and inhibit vomiting."

"Another difficulty of using sodium nitrite as a toxicant is that feral hogs can sometimes vomit the baits. The acidic decomposition of sodium nitrite in gastric juices can lead to the release of noxious, gaseous by-products that can induce vomiting. This tendency can be counteracted by incorporating into the bait antiemetic compounds, antacid compounds, or both. Antacids include such compounds as sodium carbonate, sodium bicarbonate (baking soda*), calcium carbonate (used in some antacid pills*), magnesium hydroxide (mentioned in PPH*), magnesium carbonate (used in some antacid pills*), potassium carbonate, amines (e.g. from fish), and potassium bicarbonate... Then after consumption the antacids can help neutralize gastric acid, both inhibiting the breakdown of sodium nitrite in vivo, and also helping to reduce vomiting. Our preliminary results have shown that sodium carbonate is effective in reducing vomiting after toxicant baits are consumed. Anti-emetics can also be employed, for example taste-free ginger extracts containing gingerols. Gingerols directly inhibit vomiting via pharmacological action on serotonin type-3 receptors in the digestive system. Gingerols have the same mechanism of action as drugs such as Zofran (ondansetron), which are prescribed in humans for the treatment of severe, chemotherapy-induced nausea."

https://patents.google.com/patent/US11992013B2/en

 

[ftm68_99]

I understand. I don't want to help other people to ctb neither. I won't bother you again with questions. Many thanks for your warning. I hope you'll find peace too and sorry again for your loss

Wow, I'm confused. I thought one of the purposes of Sanctioned Suicide *was* to help people CTB.