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Matchaaa

Matchaaa

Please excuse any tone misunderstandings,thank you
Dec 10, 2025
263
Another slightly rambling piece of reflection ^ ^

Having children is not merely a personal choice, but a major life decision that carries significant ethical weight and responsibility. No one can guarantee a life that is always stable or consistently experienced as good. In reality, every life trajectory carries the possibility that, at some point, things may fundamentally fall apart—for instance, a person may find life meaningful and beautiful in the first half, only to later feel that it is no longer worth living due to uncontrollable chronic pain, illness, or existential crises.

This possibility turns procreation into a genuine moral gamble. Parents cannot foresee whether their child will encounter such a rupture, yet it is the child who ultimately bears the consequences. In this sense, non-existence is better than existence. Choosing to have children cautiously—or even choosing not to have them at all—is more responsible than blind optimism. To bring a child into the world is, in effect, to stake a new life—along with its capacity for suffering—on an uncertain outcome. No matter how much effort parents put in, unforeseen events will always occur. This is precisely why careful reflection before choosing to have a child is so important.

Each person's adaptability and disposition are fundamentally different. This is why many people believe that "human potential is limitless" and begin to imagine how wonderful their child's future might be—and that hope is understandable. However, what is often overlooked is the other side of this idea: just because parents perceive an environment as acceptable does not mean the new life will experience it the same way. To have a child is, in effect, to choose their country of birth, their upbringing, and even their social position.

If, after growing up, that child finds themselves unable to adapt to this environment—and has no realistic means of leaving—they may begin to contemplate suicide. Yet at that point, parents and society may respond by saying, "How can you be so irresponsible?" This reveals a moral double standard: when deciding to have a child, one is not expected to foresee the factors that will shape that child's life; yet when that life becomes unbearable, the individual is expected to endure suffering indefinitely and bear the burden of that mismatch.

But if that life had never existed, there would be no suicide to begin with. So What right does society have to condemn someone, without reflecting on the quality and trajectory of the life they were given? In procreation, parents are not held accountable for how their child may come to feel about existence; yet in the case of suicide, the child is expected to bear responsibility for the emotional pain their parents would experience. I understand that parents who lose a child suffer deeply. However, there may be more compassionate, non-judgmental ways to express that pain.

More realistically, it is impossible to ensure that no new lives are ever born. But before choosing to have a child, beyond considering one's own happiness and sense of meaning, could we also give more serious thought to the life we are choosing to bring into the world? After all, that future person will possess the same capacity for suffering as we do.

For example: Is the political environment of this country suitable for raising a child? If not, do I have the means to provide access to a better environment? How will the education system shape them? If the values of this society come into deep conflict with theirs in the future, can I give them the freedom to choose a different path? Is there sufficient financial stability? If the relationship breaks down, would I still be able to provide a stable and loving life?

I believe that if people approached procreation not only from self-interest but also with deeper ethical consideration, many forms of suffering could be reduced. At the same time, for those who are already living under adverse conditions, we must ask whether society provides adequate support systems to alleviate their suffering. And if an individual, after careful reflection, ultimately decides to end their life, should we respect their autonomy and allow the process to be peaceful and dignified—rather than forcing them to endure further pain even in their final moments?

After all, many methods of suicide are extremely painful, and we know that enduring such pain is deeply frightening.
 
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Reactions: niki wonoto, PanaxMan, Hi_I_am_Dead_Weight and 3 others
A

abstractcat7

Member
Apr 22, 2026
8
Brought into this world by two people's selfish desire, just to suffer, then get told to shut up if I ever complain about that suffering I never chose exacerbated by a world THEY created. Having children is treated like a right instead of one of the biggest responsibilities a human can ever choose to take on. Having children is selfish without even mentioning the amount of children living in orphanages and needing adoption. If someone can and will provide that child a good life while treating them properly, then there's no problem. I'm going to stop there before I share too much of my mind about it. I hate how some people treat having a child or getting a pet like picking up a new toy/hobby for their own enjoyment.
 
N

niki wonoto

Experienced
Oct 10, 2019
247
I'm from Indonesia. First of all, I just want to say thank you very much, this is another rare 'deep post' on this website/forum that I honestly feel really worth discussing further.

Based from my own personal life's experiences (& story), I've concluded that unfortunately most people just don't think too much (nor deeply) when they give birth to children (born). And, to even put it more bluntly & harshly: children are simply just born due to their parents are having intercourse (sex), and babies are born as a 'consequence'. That's it. Nothing more than that, unfortunately.

The other important point that I want to emphasize is: I think parents (people, or human beings/human nature, generally speaking) largely underestimate the potential risks & consequences of life, so to speak, especially the 'bad/ugly sides' of life. Even when the parents *do* think that they're ready enough to have a child/kid, people usually just only think on the financial/economical aspects, ie.: they think/feel that they're already 'responsible enough' ready to 'make a baby' just simply because they're already financially stable/secure/okay, for example. But, people forget that life is SO MUCH MORE aspects than just only about the money/financial/economy aspect! (and therefore, also the associated potential risks & consequences too!).

Just to give some examples, life can have so MANY more problems like these:

- Health/illness/sickness/disease risk & problems
- Unforeseen/unpredictability/uncertainties risks & problems, such as: accidents, rape, bullying, trauma, etc2. Just like that popular/famous quote: "You're just only ONE bad day away from your whole life changed & ruined forever"!
- Relationships, social, or loneliness risks & problems
- Psychological risks & problems
- Mental health risks & problems
- even just as seemingly underestimated 'small/little' changes (or shifts) in how the children/kids would/will eventually think or feel about life!

I'm speaking all of these, actually based from my own life's experiences & story (just as I've said above).

Honestly, I'm (very) grateful/thankful that I was born in a 'happy family' / 'good family' background, even with 'good parents'. I've had a 'happy life' & good life admittedly back when I was small & young. I've had a 'privileged' life, admittedly, even when I'm not born in the first world countries (developed countries). People used to see my family back then even perhaps as the 'PERFECT family' who just seemed to 'have it all'! And of course, when I was young/small, I've never expected that life could eventually (unfortunately/sadly) turned into all of these 'predicaments', problems, stress, etc2. And the saddest thing is how I've now had a major (existential) depression, & passive suicidal ideation everyday, because I honestly feel like I'm just a 'middle-aged' loser/failure that becomes just a 'burden' & disappointment for my 'aging' parents.

I used to always say/comment on this website/forum that: ANYTHING could happen in life! including BAD things/events/circumstances/situation/conditions that is unforeseen, unpredictable, & uncertain!

Sadly & unfortunately, people too often just only 'naively' thinking about all the 'GOOD THINGS' when they've decided to have a child / bring a child into this world. My conclusion is that it's just human's nature (human nature), unfortunately. Our human nature mostly just 'lie/deceive/trick' us -somehow- deeply innate within our DNA biological programming & nature, that most people DON'T WANT to think about all the 'BAD THINGS' in life!

- Optimism bias
- Toxic positivity

These two are sadly deeply ingrained within the human nature. And you can see so MANY examples of this!

But, it should have been so obvious that, in life, there are GOOD and BAD things! So, why people often just only look at the 'GOOD' sides of life, and never / don't want to think about the 'BAD' sides of life (and especially again the *POTENTIAL* probabilities in the FUTURE which is full of uncertainties & unpredictabilities!), is just beyond me, honestly. It's just really sad.

"Ignorance is bliss" >> it's probably one of the true-est quotes that describes the human's condition, sadly/unfortunately. But again, having kids/children is not the same like having a pet (dogs, cats, etc2). You'll have an entirely new *HUMAN BEING* that risks SO MANY THINGS, especially the potential 'BAD' things / problems that I've just explained above! And sadly, usually only when it all already becomes TOO LATE that people (including parents) would perhaps only by then realize all the RISKS & CONSEQUENCES could/can have FATAL outcomes/events in life!


I wish life could be more than this... but, reality is cruel & often disappointing (Thanos' popular/famous quote)...
 
Last edited:
P

PanaxMan

Specialist
Apr 11, 2023
372
Another slightly rambling piece of reflection ^ ^

Having children is not merely a personal choice, but a major life decision that carries significant ethical weight and responsibility. No one can guarantee a life that is always stable or consistently experienced as good. In reality, every life trajectory carries the possibility that, at some point, things may fundamentally fall apart—for instance, a person may find life meaningful and beautiful in the first half, only to later feel that it is no longer worth living due to uncontrollable chronic pain, illness, or existential crises.

This possibility turns procreation into a genuine moral gamble. Parents cannot foresee whether their child will encounter such a rupture, yet it is the child who ultimately bears the consequences. In this sense, non-existence is better than existence. Choosing to have children cautiously—or even choosing not to have them at all—is more responsible than blind optimism. To bring a child into the world is, in effect, to stake a new life—along with its capacity for suffering—on an uncertain outcome. No matter how much effort parents put in, unforeseen events will always occur. This is precisely why careful reflection before choosing to have a child is so important.

Each person's adaptability and disposition are fundamentally different. This is why many people believe that "human potential is limitless" and begin to imagine how wonderful their child's future might be—and that hope is understandable. However, what is often overlooked is the other side of this idea: just because parents perceive an environment as acceptable does not mean the new life will experience it the same way. To have a child is, in effect, to choose their country of birth, their upbringing, and even their social position.

If, after growing up, that child finds themselves unable to adapt to this environment—and has no realistic means of leaving—they may begin to contemplate suicide. Yet at that point, parents and society may respond by saying, "How can you be so irresponsible?" This reveals a moral double standard: when deciding to have a child, one is not expected to foresee the factors that will shape that child's life; yet when that life becomes unbearable, the individual is expected to endure suffering indefinitely and bear the burden of that mismatch.

But if that life had never existed, there would be no suicide to begin with. So What right does society have to condemn someone, without reflecting on the quality and trajectory of the life they were given? In procreation, parents are not held accountable for how their child may come to feel about existence; yet in the case of suicide, the child is expected to bear responsibility for the emotional pain their parents would experience. I understand that parents who lose a child suffer deeply. However, there may be more compassionate, non-judgmental ways to express that pain.

More realistically, it is impossible to ensure that no new lives are ever born. But before choosing to have a child, beyond considering one's own happiness and sense of meaning, could we also give more serious thought to the life we are choosing to bring into the world? After all, that future person will possess the same capacity for suffering as we do.

For example: Is the political environment of this country suitable for raising a child? If not, do I have the means to provide access to a better environment? How will the education system shape them? If the values of this society come into deep conflict with theirs in the future, can I give them the freedom to choose a different path? Is there sufficient financial stability? If the relationship breaks down, would I still be able to provide a stable and loving life?

I believe that if people approached procreation not only from self-interest but also with deeper ethical consideration, many forms of suffering could be reduced. At the same time, for those who are already living under adverse conditions, we must ask whether society provides adequate support systems to alleviate their suffering. And if an individual, after careful reflection, ultimately decides to end their life, should we respect their autonomy and allow the process to be peaceful and dignified—rather than forcing them to endure further pain even in their final moments?

After all, many methods of suicide are extremely painful, and we know that enduring such pain is deeply frightening.
I agree with you. It's why I don't judge anyone for not or having kids. It's just wether if they have the responsibility within them.
 

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