Venting On advice and feeling like an outcast

[anch]

Ironically enough, one thing that all too often gets me down is people giving advice and spouting stupid remarks like "you sound depressed". Those 3 words make me feel like digging a grave like nothing else.

We can't with any accuracy pinpoint what depression is, and here you are throwing this stupid word around like it means anything. There are as many different versions of "depression" as there are people on this planet, the word has just become an Umbrella term for all human suffering. It's easier to digest and easier to advice on.

And then there's "have you heard about this thing called therapy?". It's so incredibly infantilizing, like it's something we haven't tried or even thought of.

You can't have your own thoughts in this world any longer without being pathologized. It's so awfully tiring and everything feels like a cheap stage play.

Another thing that I often think about is what makes some of us end up here, and others more ready to go the full distance in life. Like they're not happy but fully content to live the same day for the rest of their life. Just continuing requires so much effort and when you don't actively want it, where do you go? Is that what's missing in some of us perhaps, the wanting.

Two people who I've found quite relatable on here, @_Gollum_ and @Forever Sleep, I'd much appreciate your inputs on this confusing rambling.

 

[twisting thy rope]

its important to understand majority of people are in fact cheap stage play. Its sad and concerning to see how out of touch we have gotten with such basic things, such as human connection, empathy, etc. I believe in perception; The world is what you make it out to be yes but i do not believe in being "happy". I think the use of the term "happy" has slowly killed minds over the last few generations, chasing a false dream. I believe in being content, being able to tell yourself "this is enough for me".

I cannot tell you what to do or how to move forward with your concerns and feelings. However i can tell you how I moved forward with mine.

We are always pushing forward, always trying our hardest to stay afloat, you ask where i go when i don't actively want to continue? Me personally i go in my head, and i think back on my life, i think about my experiences, i think about how much of my personal life was dark and then i realize the lives i care about around me, well their lives don't have to be dark too. Being someone's motivation for the day, making someone smile, helping someone through hard times, helping a old lady with her groceries, these are things i think about, and these are things that make me want to continue, not for myself but for others. I personally wish i had someone like that when i was behind the gun, i wish i had someone like that when i was waking up in the hospital from something i did. I personally think if you have any sort of connection in this world that should be enough for anyone to continue. Connection. and i mean true meaningful connection. Life itself has kind of been one big marathon for me personally, once you reach that runners high you things look up, things seem more clear.

Keeping running my friend, i hope you can find the life you not only want but deserve.

 

[58Alice85]

Normies are demented. They believe depression is caused by lack of serotonin and not by negative life circumstances

 

[twisting thy rope]

Normies are demented. They believe depression is caused by lack of serotonin and not by negative life circumstances

negative life circumstances affect serotonin levels, in most cases i suppose not all

regardless they go hand in hand

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think some people may enquire out of genuine concern- to be fair. A comment that we don't seem like ourselves, that maybe we are depressed can be well intentioned- I think.

However, I agree with you- where we go from there is more tricky. And, I definitely don't like therapy being held up as some ultimate fix all for everyone. That's not to say it's not worth trying though.

I probably had the exact conversation you are refering to with a friend's Mum once. I thought I was doing a reasonable job of seeming ok but, she could see through it. It was actually validating for me for someone to notice that something was in fact very wrong and, maybe I needed some help.

So- it can depend on the person really. My family are more of the 'keep calm and carry on' type. They don't have much time for mental illness and struggling. So for me personally- it was a relief to be with someone who did.

From there though- it can be tricky. I agree- the diagnosis for depression and lots of mental illnesses seem hugely woolly to me. I did see the college therapist in the end- who refered me to my GP as well because, they believed antidepressants would help. It was a flimsy questionnaire though- that resulted in a diagnosis of mild to moderate depression.

I have mixed feelings really. On the one hand- of course I'd prefer it if they could do some sort of brain scan/ physiological test and say- you've got this. In fact, it deeply frustrates me that to my mind, psychiatry seems more about observing a patients described symptoms, rather than observing the organ that produces them! It actually seems ludicrous to me. They would never diagnose a serious heart condition and prescribe strong drugs on a description of symptoms alone. They would surely run phisiological tests prior to f*cking about with it. It could be indigestion!

On the other hand, I think diagnosis can be helpful on occassion. Even self diagnosis to some extent. (Which I know others may disagree with.) I believe I tend to suffer with limerence (obsessive crushes on people) and, binge eating disorder. Both those 'conditions' have certain triggers. They both have things it's better to be aware of and, avoid. By knowing I'm prone to thinking and behaving in those unhelpful patterns, it makes it easier for me to control them- before they start controlling me.

Suspecting we may have depression can maybe work in a similar way. It may make us reconsider certain overly pessimistic views. It may make us look at our behaviour. Is it helping me to stay up till 5am and then, barely feel able to get out of bed the next day? Is it normal I've got no appetite etc? By questioning and modifying our behaviour, we might be able to prevent things getting worse- at the least. But, we do need to recognise there may be a problem in the first place. Otherwise, we won't even think to try and tackle it. Like you say though- the motivation to do so needs to be there.

I think the diagnosis of depression is made when there are multiple symptoms. So, it's not just feeling sad. It's a whole general trend to not enjoying things we used to. Changes in sleeping patterns, appetite, sex drive etc. I don't really know how accurate it is but then- I think wondering if something might be wrong can be helpful sometimes. So long as we have the strength to change it.

Which of course- is the other problem. Maybe we are understandably miserable because of our shit circumstances. If there's little way of changing those circumstances- how hopeful can we be?

As to why some people go on while others don't want to- that's a great mystery to me too. I tend to gravitate towards other unhappy people. Some have particularly bad lots in life. Some have even attempted suicide in the past. Not so many seem actively suicidal now though. And, I don't really know why! I guess there's just enough about life that keeps them interested. Others have maybe adjusted things to a more bearable point. They've gone NEET. They've found partners. They've renewed interests in things. I guess their reason to stay is just about enough maybe.

That and the risk of making a suicide attempt can simply trap a lot of us here. Then, we're stuck trying to make the best of it. Suicide being such a taboo subject to even discuss, we don't even actually know how many people are that happy staying here too. They could well want out too.

 

[_Gollum_]

Appreciate you tagging me :)

I think I've mentioned this before, but a lot of this "have you heard about this thing called therapy?" attitude stems from the belief that there IS such thing as a "normal, healthy life." Them telling you that it "sounds like depression" is really just them saying "you have left the bounds of what we consider to be normal." Hence why definitions of "mental illness" have changed so much over the past few centuries (or even longer, with things like demon possession).

Now, I'm not saying that there's no such thing as "ill" and "healthy." I'm just saying that when it comes to invisible illnesses, the delimiting line is extremely difficult--if not impossible--to pinpoint, and it will move according to the current society's whims. And in our current society, suicidal thoughts and a lack of enjoyment of life are automatically considered to push you over onto the "ill" side, instead of just being normal occupational hazards of living as conscious beings in a meaningless world.

I recently read this essay, The Last Messiah by Peter Wessel Zapffe, which touches on these points; I would highly recommend it.

Another thing that I often think about is what makes some of us end up here, and others more ready to go the full distance in life. Like they're not happy but fully content to live the same day for the rest of their life. Just continuing requires so much effort and when you don't actively want it, where do you go? Is that what's missing in some of us perhaps, the wanting.

To take an idea from the aforementioned essay, I think a lot of us end up here because our coping mechanisms--namely attachment and distraction--have failed. Most people are able to keep the dread of living at bay through, for example, their love for their children, or momentary pleasures of eating or sex. Many also heavily rely on exogenous substances, especially caffeine and alcohol, just to get through a day. If you removed distractions and removed our ability to attach to eachother (or to objects), pretty much no one would want to live. And that's exactly the position a lot of us are already in. Though I guess that just raises another question: why did the coping mechanisms work for them but not for us? Or for some of us, why did they stop working?

Schopenhauer said it best:
"For if life [...] possessed in itself a positive value and real content, there would be no such thing as boredom: mere existence would fulfill and satisfy us."

 

[anch]

Appreciate you tagging me :)

I think I've mentioned this before, but a lot of this "have you heard about this thing called therapy?" attitude stems from the belief that there IS such thing as a "normal, healthy life." Them telling you that it "sounds like depression" is really just them saying "you have left the bounds of what we consider to be normal." Hence why definitions of "mental illness" have changed so much over the past few centuries (or even longer, with things like demon possession).

Now, I'm not saying that there's no such thing as "ill" and "healthy." I'm just saying that when it comes to invisible illnesses, the delimiting line is extremely difficult--if not impossible--to pinpoint, and it will move according to the current society's whims. And in our current society, suicidal thoughts and a lack of enjoyment of life are automatically considered to push you over onto the "ill" side, instead of just being normal occupational hazards of living as conscious beings in a meaningless world.

I recently read this essay, The Last Messiah by Peter Wessel Zapffe, which touches on these points; I would highly recommend it.


To take an idea from the aforementioned essay, I think a lot of us end up here because our coping mechanisms--namely attachment and distraction--have failed. Most people are able to keep the dread of living at bay through, for example, their love for their children, or momentary pleasures of eating or sex. Many also heavily rely on exogenous substances, especially caffeine and alcohol, just to get through a day. If you removed distractions and removed our ability to attach to eachother (or to objects), pretty much no one would want to live. And that's exactly the position a lot of us are already in. Though I guess that just raises another question: why did the coping mechanisms work for them but not for us? Or for some of us, why did they stop working?

Schopenhauer said it best:
"For if life [...] possessed in itself a positive value and real content, there would be no such thing as boredom: mere existence would fulfill and satisfy us."

Yeah, I suspect you are correct. I somehow doubt they themselves believe that they're being helpful.

I read The Last Messiah years ago, it's excellent. The questions you ask are really interesting, but reaching a proper answer seems impossible.

Another good question is: when does not liking X thing turn into pathology?