a.n.kirillov
velle non discitur
- Nov 17, 2019
- 1,831
Since EC in Spain is currently unable to perform analyses due to the COVID-19 shutdown, I have decided to test C's N powder myself, to at least get some idea about the potency of it. Here is some information about typical dosages for different uses for N (source below):
Available forms
Available by prescription only
Capsules: 50 mg, 100 mg
Elixir: 18.2 mg/5 ml
Injection: 50 mg/ml, 1-ml and 2-ml disposable syringes; 2-ml, 20-ml, and 50-ml vials
Suppositories: 30 mg, 60 mg, 120 mg, 200 mg
Indications and dosages
Sedation. Adults: 20 to 40 mg P.O. * b.i.d., t.i.d., or q.i.d.
Children: 2 to 6 mg/kg P.O. daily in divided doses, to maximum of 100 mg/dose.
Insomnia. Adults: 100 mg P.O. h.s. or 150 to 200 mg deep I.M.; 120 to 200 mg P.R.
Children: 2 to 6 mg/kg I.M., up to maximum of 100 mg/ dose. Or 30 mg P.R. (ages 2 months to 1 year), 30 to 60 mg P.R. (ages 1 to 4), 60 mg P.R. (ages 5 to 12), 60 to 120 mg P.R. (ages 12 to 14).
Preanesthetic action. Adults: 150 to 200 mg I.M. or P.O. in two divided doses.
Anticonvulsant action. Adults: Initially, 100 mg I.V.; after 1 minute additional doses may be given. Maximum dose is 500 mg.
Children: 50 mg initially; after 1 minute additional small doses may be given until desired effect is obtained.
(Source: https://www.glowm.com/resources/glowm/cd/pages/drugs/p019.html)
* P.O. is oral (pill oral ??)
Another source states the max oral single dose for pre-anaesthetic (so not for insomnia treatment) usage as 100mg max.:
Children and Adolescents 4 years and older
1.5 to 3 mg/kg/dose PO. Max: 100 mg/dose. The FDA-approved labeling for oral capsules in pediatric patients is 2 to 6 mg/kg/24 hours and dependent on age, weight, and degree of desired sedation.
(Source: https://www.pdr.net/drug-summary/Nembutal-pentobarbital-sodium-2052)
Sadly, this source does not state the oral dose for insomnia treatment for adults; so I had to infer it thus: the IM dosage for pre-anaesthetic usage is 150-200mg, while the oral dosage for the same purpose is 100mg max. However, the IM dosage for short term insomnia treatment for adults is also 150-200mg, – so I infer that the oral dosage for insomnia treatment would also be 100mg max according to the opinion of the authors of this document.
I have checked several sources and all of them state the average medium dose for insomnia to be between 100 - 200mg (albeit usually this refers to IM). Since C advertised the substance as 98 percent pure, and I want to be on the safe side—note that the nembutal pills also used to come in 50 and 100mg dosages, which is another reason why I have decided against taking 150 or 200mg up front—, I have decided to weigh out ~150mg of the powder. Assuming the purity to be around 70 percent, as some members have confirmed by offering their lab results from EC, this should amount to approximately 100mg - 110mg of N, so it would be at the lower end of the moderate dose for insmonia. Assuming however that the 98 percent purity is true, it should amount to 140-150mg of N (which, if true, should definitely knock me out).
All of this is not out of a concern for safety—allthough I do hope that there is no dangerous alternate substance present in the powder—but to give me some frame of reference to assess the results of my (very much unscientific) test. I don't think the results will be all that conclusive or informative, but at least I tried ^^.
Another thing to note might be that I have a moderate (+) tolerance to alcohol, which might skew the results. With moderate I mean, I have to drink about thrice as much to get the same effect as if I had no tolerance at all, if that makes any sense. Drinking 1.5L of beer doesn't make me particularily drunk.
If the purity is at least 70 percent, the solution should have a significant effect on me. I will log the effects, taste, etc and post the thread as soon as I get sleepy enough to go to bed, then I will report back in the morning.
--------------------------------------------------
+0h00m Powder dissolved very easily (which is a good sign, that's how it should be) in about 5-10ml of water. It is definitely not odourless and is slightly milky in colour.
+0h00m I have now consumed it. It definitely is bitter and chemical tasting, but since I have not scaled the amount of water correctly to the dose, I can not tell how bitter the eventual mixture of the lethal dose will be. It is not that bad tbh, it lingers, but no chaser or chocolate needed right now. Am a little anxious because I have no clue what I have just consumed.
+0h08m Not feeling anything yet ... the aftertaste is still slightly noticeable, but not annoyingly so
+0h10m Okay now I think I can feel something coming on. Slight relaxation in limbs, a warm and fuzzy feeling, but not very pronounced
+0h20m So the twenty-minute-mark is supposed to be the time of onset and I can still not tell wether I am experiecing a placebo effect. I definitely feel tired and my limbs feel heavy, but no knockout level sedation or anything...I will get up and walk around a bit and see whether I can notice it better that way.
+0h25m According to a few other sites, the onset for oral and rectal administration can vary between 20 to 60 minutes, so I might have to stay awake for a little longer. I had a full stomach and do have a very slow metabolism
+0h30m Walking around, I am feeling slightly different, heavy, tired (which I usually am not at this time of day—or night rather—, I usually stay awake until 4AM). I feel a little wobbly and overall weird though.
+0h40m Tired, yes. Also, I have no craving for a beer whatsoever, which is uncommon because I usually drink a few beers at night. But still no pronounced high or knockout. The problem is, I don't really know what I am waiting for. I guess I expect this to be at least somewhat fun, because it used to be a drug of abuse. So far, no fun involved in the experience.
+0h47m I am getting bored with this, so I did a reaction time test on a website. The results: 306ms, Bottom 17.57%.
+0h52m Dunno why I can't turn off the bold ... still don't feel like I am about to pass out or anything. I feel effects for sure, but they are not so pronounced as to force me asleep. I remember back as a kid, our old GP, who was an old-school doctor, a really kind and compassionate doc who could calm you down just by his manner, giving me something because I had a severe headache or stomacheache, to fall asleep. I remember that it knocked me out cold in about thirty minutes and I had a total blackout as to what happened in those thirty minutes. I'm just now thinking, since he was pretty old even back then, whether what he gave me was a N or seconal... well, I guess I will never find out. He is still alive though—travelling the world at 80+ years old.
+1h00m Either this stuff is taking so long to kick in because I had a really full stomach, or because of my ethanol tolerance, or—and that is what I am afraid of—because the purity is way under seventy percent ... I will wait for half an hour more I think and then go to sleep. I can still walk straight, touch my nose and fingertips eyes closed and stand on one leg easily. The only thing is I am somewhat sluggish, heavy and tired. It has some resemblence of what alcohol does to you, but feels "cleaner".
+1h10m Still no knockout. Yes, the effect is noticeable. I have the strong urge to go to bed and notice a slight to moderate cognitive impairment. It is a nice feeling for sure. Maybe 100mg (supposing 70 percent purity) is simply not that much. Another website I found says Oral hypnotic dosage should be between 100-200mg:
Dosing:
Hypnotic (Adult):
Oral: 100-200mg qhs.
IM: 150-200mg.
IV: Initially 100mg, may repeat q1-3min up to 200-500mg total dose. Rectal: 120-200mg at bedtime.
(Source: https://globalrph.com/dilution/pentobarbital-nembutal/)
(character limit)
+1h20m I mean I can see this being the desired effect of an insomnia pill. Maybe insomnia pills are not supposed to literally knock you out—maybe it would have been more intelligent to go with the recommendations of the first source and take the amount corresponding to 150 or 200mg of N. Doing another test would just cut into what I have left now and build unnecessary tolerance. I feel heavy, slightly drunk, but in a clinical way, somehwat warm and fuzzy and quite tired, but not so much that I could not stay awake regardless. Would I drive a car in this condition? — not sure tbh.
+1h30m Okay—walking around, my coordination is still normal. I can do all the drunkenness tests without problem. I can think clearly, operate my laptop without any problem, I can focus, etc ... It is only when laying on the couch that I feel the effects and the intense desire to sleep, which is what I'm going to do now.
Available forms
Available by prescription only
Capsules: 50 mg, 100 mg
Elixir: 18.2 mg/5 ml
Injection: 50 mg/ml, 1-ml and 2-ml disposable syringes; 2-ml, 20-ml, and 50-ml vials
Suppositories: 30 mg, 60 mg, 120 mg, 200 mg
Indications and dosages
Children: 2 to 6 mg/kg P.O. daily in divided doses, to maximum of 100 mg/dose.
Children: 2 to 6 mg/kg I.M., up to maximum of 100 mg/ dose. Or 30 mg P.R. (ages 2 months to 1 year), 30 to 60 mg P.R. (ages 1 to 4), 60 mg P.R. (ages 5 to 12), 60 to 120 mg P.R. (ages 12 to 14).
Children: 50 mg initially; after 1 minute additional small doses may be given until desired effect is obtained.
(Source: https://www.glowm.com/resources/glowm/cd/pages/drugs/p019.html)
* P.O. is oral (pill oral ??)
Another source states the max oral single dose for pre-anaesthetic (so not for insomnia treatment) usage as 100mg max.:
Children and Adolescents 4 years and older
1.5 to 3 mg/kg/dose PO. Max: 100 mg/dose. The FDA-approved labeling for oral capsules in pediatric patients is 2 to 6 mg/kg/24 hours and dependent on age, weight, and degree of desired sedation.
(Source: https://www.pdr.net/drug-summary/Nembutal-pentobarbital-sodium-2052)
Sadly, this source does not state the oral dose for insomnia treatment for adults; so I had to infer it thus: the IM dosage for pre-anaesthetic usage is 150-200mg, while the oral dosage for the same purpose is 100mg max. However, the IM dosage for short term insomnia treatment for adults is also 150-200mg, – so I infer that the oral dosage for insomnia treatment would also be 100mg max according to the opinion of the authors of this document.
I have checked several sources and all of them state the average medium dose for insomnia to be between 100 - 200mg (albeit usually this refers to IM). Since C advertised the substance as 98 percent pure, and I want to be on the safe side—note that the nembutal pills also used to come in 50 and 100mg dosages, which is another reason why I have decided against taking 150 or 200mg up front—, I have decided to weigh out ~150mg of the powder. Assuming the purity to be around 70 percent, as some members have confirmed by offering their lab results from EC, this should amount to approximately 100mg - 110mg of N, so it would be at the lower end of the moderate dose for insmonia. Assuming however that the 98 percent purity is true, it should amount to 140-150mg of N (which, if true, should definitely knock me out).
All of this is not out of a concern for safety—allthough I do hope that there is no dangerous alternate substance present in the powder—but to give me some frame of reference to assess the results of my (very much unscientific) test. I don't think the results will be all that conclusive or informative, but at least I tried ^^.
Another thing to note might be that I have a moderate (+) tolerance to alcohol, which might skew the results. With moderate I mean, I have to drink about thrice as much to get the same effect as if I had no tolerance at all, if that makes any sense. Drinking 1.5L of beer doesn't make me particularily drunk.
If the purity is at least 70 percent, the solution should have a significant effect on me. I will log the effects, taste, etc and post the thread as soon as I get sleepy enough to go to bed, then I will report back in the morning.
--------------------------------------------------
+0h00m Powder dissolved very easily (which is a good sign, that's how it should be) in about 5-10ml of water. It is definitely not odourless and is slightly milky in colour.
+0h00m I have now consumed it. It definitely is bitter and chemical tasting, but since I have not scaled the amount of water correctly to the dose, I can not tell how bitter the eventual mixture of the lethal dose will be. It is not that bad tbh, it lingers, but no chaser or chocolate needed right now. Am a little anxious because I have no clue what I have just consumed.
+0h08m Not feeling anything yet ... the aftertaste is still slightly noticeable, but not annoyingly so
+0h10m Okay now I think I can feel something coming on. Slight relaxation in limbs, a warm and fuzzy feeling, but not very pronounced
+0h20m So the twenty-minute-mark is supposed to be the time of onset and I can still not tell wether I am experiecing a placebo effect. I definitely feel tired and my limbs feel heavy, but no knockout level sedation or anything...I will get up and walk around a bit and see whether I can notice it better that way.
+0h25m According to a few other sites, the onset for oral and rectal administration can vary between 20 to 60 minutes, so I might have to stay awake for a little longer. I had a full stomach and do have a very slow metabolism
+0h30m Walking around, I am feeling slightly different, heavy, tired (which I usually am not at this time of day—or night rather—, I usually stay awake until 4AM). I feel a little wobbly and overall weird though.
+0h40m Tired, yes. Also, I have no craving for a beer whatsoever, which is uncommon because I usually drink a few beers at night. But still no pronounced high or knockout. The problem is, I don't really know what I am waiting for. I guess I expect this to be at least somewhat fun, because it used to be a drug of abuse. So far, no fun involved in the experience.
+0h47m I am getting bored with this, so I did a reaction time test on a website. The results: 306ms, Bottom 17.57%.
+0h52m Dunno why I can't turn off the bold ... still don't feel like I am about to pass out or anything. I feel effects for sure, but they are not so pronounced as to force me asleep. I remember back as a kid, our old GP, who was an old-school doctor, a really kind and compassionate doc who could calm you down just by his manner, giving me something because I had a severe headache or stomacheache, to fall asleep. I remember that it knocked me out cold in about thirty minutes and I had a total blackout as to what happened in those thirty minutes. I'm just now thinking, since he was pretty old even back then, whether what he gave me was a N or seconal... well, I guess I will never find out. He is still alive though—travelling the world at 80+ years old.
+1h00m Either this stuff is taking so long to kick in because I had a really full stomach, or because of my ethanol tolerance, or—and that is what I am afraid of—because the purity is way under seventy percent ... I will wait for half an hour more I think and then go to sleep. I can still walk straight, touch my nose and fingertips eyes closed and stand on one leg easily. The only thing is I am somewhat sluggish, heavy and tired. It has some resemblence of what alcohol does to you, but feels "cleaner".
+1h10m Still no knockout. Yes, the effect is noticeable. I have the strong urge to go to bed and notice a slight to moderate cognitive impairment. It is a nice feeling for sure. Maybe 100mg (supposing 70 percent purity) is simply not that much. Another website I found says Oral hypnotic dosage should be between 100-200mg:
Dosing:
Hypnotic (Adult):
Oral: 100-200mg qhs.
IM: 150-200mg.
IV: Initially 100mg, may repeat q1-3min up to 200-500mg total dose. Rectal: 120-200mg at bedtime.
(Source: https://globalrph.com/dilution/pentobarbital-nembutal/)
(character limit)
+1h20m I mean I can see this being the desired effect of an insomnia pill. Maybe insomnia pills are not supposed to literally knock you out—maybe it would have been more intelligent to go with the recommendations of the first source and take the amount corresponding to 150 or 200mg of N. Doing another test would just cut into what I have left now and build unnecessary tolerance. I feel heavy, slightly drunk, but in a clinical way, somehwat warm and fuzzy and quite tired, but not so much that I could not stay awake regardless. Would I drive a car in this condition? — not sure tbh.
+1h30m Okay—walking around, my coordination is still normal. I can do all the drunkenness tests without problem. I can think clearly, operate my laptop without any problem, I can focus, etc ... It is only when laying on the couch that I feel the effects and the intense desire to sleep, which is what I'm going to do now.
Last edited:
