My friend thinks suicide is selfish

[sancsuinet]

But only if you succeed.

I think this is the worst take.
One that can only come from someone who doesn't know how it feels to be hopeless.
The courage it takes to commit and the edge you have to be pushed to before you consider it, let alone follow through seriously.

They talk about how awesome the poem the view from halfway down from bojack horseman is but the only way to get the view from halfway down is to truely believe you are going to die. If you know you are going to survive there is no realisation. They don't understand the depth and beauty of the poem if they don't understand the resolution of suicide.

The idea that the element of selfish or selflessness can change by the outcome of the act is fucking stupid. The intention is what matters and the idea that if you succeed and you dont let people help you through after (because your dead) your selfish is fucking stupid.

Its also a take that comes straight from the mouth of someone whos never felt *actually* selfish suicide, which almost never suceeds, because theres never an intention to die, only the threat of it.

 

[iloverachel]

Most people who haven't been in our shoes just simply won't understand. Its why i avoid talking about suicide to people in real life, but i vent about it here because most of us have been through suicidal thoughts and know what it is like and thus be more empathetic

 

[dggtscccvfd]

S

But only if you succeed.

I think this is the worst take.
One that can only come from someone who doesn't know how it feels to be hopeless.
The courage it takes to commit and the edge you have to be pushed to before you consider it, let alone follow through seriously.

They talk about how awesome the poem the view from halfway down from bojack horseman is but the only way to get the view from halfway down is to truely believe you are going to die. If you know you are going to survive there is no realisation. They don't understand the depth and beauty of the poem if they don't understand the resolution of suicide.

The idea that the element of selfish or selflessness can change by the outcome of the act is fucking stupid. The intention is what matters and the idea that if you succeed and you dont let people help you through after (because your dead) your selfish is fucking stupid.

It's also a take that comes straight from the mouth of someone whos never felt *actually* selfish suicide, which almost never suceeds, because theres never an intention to die, only the threat of it.

Suicide is selfish, but that's okay; the most important thing is our lack of happiness: we have a right to end our lives because of it.

[My dad thinks suicide is selfish too. I told him I don't care as I plan to CTB anyhow].

 

[halleyscomet]

I understand why people see it as selfish, it can seem cruel to create the trauma of a loved one passing voluntarily. But either way whether it's self inflicted or not, the trauma and grief that comes with someone passing is guaranteed either way. Eventually we will die, and we will leave pain to those we leave behind, no matter how it happens that is guaranteed. So if it's going to happen either way, we should be able to decide when we would like to go, on our own terms. It is not selfish to make a decision about your own mortality, you will die eventually anyways - it is more selfish to suggest that someone live for the sake of others in my opinion.

 

[eatantz]

The whole selfish thing is confusing because I think its selfish to force someone to live to make other feels better. At the end of the day people should eb able to choose what they do with their life and body. I refuse to live for the sake of others, its meaningless

 

[J&L383]

Okay, I can understand the rationale behind calling it selfish. e.g., How it affects others, why don't you help others instead of just killing yourself? Be a man and make something of your life!

But it does beg a philosophical discussion, in my view.

definition: "lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure"

Well, there's no profit if I kill myself (there IS profit to my heirs if I leave an estate), and it's not exactly pleasurable (unless you're into that), although there's pleasure if it means the end of the pain.

It would seem to be more selfish to amass huge amounts of wealth rather than helping the poor and needy. (Which even then is not an entirely selfless act, as it brings the reward of feeling good about yourself).

If you created children then I would agree there's some responsibility to take care of them until they can at least care for themselves. (That's another discussion, cf antinatalism, deemed selfish).

In today's overcrowded world it would seem to be a selfless act in order to decrease the drag on limited resources.

My take: None of us asked to be here (setting aside the whole higher power discussion), and so why should we be required to stay? (again, setting aside the whole highway power discussion).

If you don't like your place of residence, you find a new one, if you don't like your job you [if you're lucky] find a new one, if you don't like your life . . . .

(Thank you SS )

 

[AprilsOrangeSpring]

I can empathise with people who think it is selfish. However, I think that thought also stems from selfishness.

No one wants to lose someone. Whether through suicide or any other death. I think the difference is that with suicide, it is a choice, which makes people angry. Although, a lot of the time it feels like there is no other choice.

Of course, refusing to empathise and try to understand why someone wanted to end their suffering is also a bit selfish.

I think everyone is selfish in their own way. In the end it doesn't matter, you need to put yourself first. You can call that selfish, but "putting yourself first" can also be a means to recover.

Everyone is responsible for their own happiness, why should you sacrifice yours for others? I don't see anyone sacrificing their happiness for others by allowing them to CTB.

In my opinion, people on this site might be the most selfless people I've ever met. They allow you your freedom, without pressure, without guilt.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I agree it's selfish, but only from the standpoint that it concerns only us, concerns what's best for us, from our own perspective. I don't see what success or failure has to do with it, though. That's not an element of selfishness.

 

[SnakesButNoLadder]

My sister told me this, and she's right.

If you commit suicide everyone around you will ask themselves if they could've done something. From the people who barely knew you to the people who knew you well. I know this from experience.

Regret and guilt is a symptom many people will feel.

I think the problem is you don't want it to be selfish, but it kinda is.

Given that not a single comment has touched on how suicide affects others is proving my point. There is an increase in suicide risk of friends or relatives who have taken their life.

Respectfully.

 

[dggtscccvfd]

My sister told me this, and she's right.

If you commit suicide everyone around you will ask themselves if they could've done something. From the people who barely knew you to the people who knew you well. I know this from experience.

Regret and guilt is a symptom many people will feel.

I think the problem is you don't want it to be selfish, but it kinda is.

Given that not a single comment has touched on how suicide affects others is proving my point. There is an increase in suicide risk of friends or relatives who have taken their life.

Respectfully.

'There is an increase in suicide risk of friends or relatives who have taken their lives': in the case of relatives correlation doesn't equal causation. It's true that relatives of people who CTB are more likely to CTB themselves, but it's quite possible this link is genetic (genes favouring suicide) or environmental (similar depressing environments) rather than a direct effect of the CTB itself.

 

[sserafim]

The whole selfish thing is confusing because I think its selfish to force someone to live to make other feels better. At the end of the day people should eb able to choose what they do with their life and body. I refuse to live for the sake of others, its meaningless

Same. It honestly makes me mad whenever someone says that suicide is selfish. I don't see how it is. If anything, it's selfish for other people to force us to keep living for them. It's your life, not anyone else's. It's my body, my choice

 

[Leiden]

For those who know, no explanation is needed, for those who don't, no explanation will ever be enough. They can not possibly ever understand. We are in a place that we should never of been in in the first place. We had no choice to be conceived and now we're living the consequences of it and nobody but the ones who know can truly understand. I would never of chosen to live, not ever, under any circumstance.

 

[halleyscomet]

My sister told me this, and she's right.

If you commit suicide everyone around you will ask themselves if they could've done something. From the people who barely knew you to the people who knew you well. I know this from experience.

Regret and guilt is a symptom many people will feel.

I think the problem is you don't want it to be selfish, but it kinda is.

Given that not a single comment has touched on how suicide affects others is proving my point. There is an increase in suicide risk of friends or relatives who have taken their life.

Respectfully.

In my opinion, grief will happen whether it's suicide or not. Yes suicide can bring different types of grief and emotional turmoil, but that does not mean it is inherently selfish. Would you consider it more humane for someone to have to suffer for many years, just to prevent trauma and grief which is going to happen anyways?

I understand and respect your point of view, but I disagree. People should not have to dictate their lives for the sake of preventing grief that will happen anyways. We all should have the right to choose what we want to do with our own mortality. If someone wants to ctb as a result of someone else doing it, that is their own choice and there is probably other reasons that contribute to that decision anyways.

 

[escape_from_hell]

The idea that the element of selfish or selflessness can change by the outcome of the act is fucking stupid. The intention is what matters and the idea that if you succeed and you dont let people help you through after (because your dead) your selfish is fucking stupid.

Would they still think it is selfish if a person has nobody that cares about them in life? Many of us drag on the pain waiting for our parents, the only people in our lives at all aside from like a convenience store clerk, to die just to not make them sad. This might lead to a degree of resentment over time.

Who are you gonna let in to help you through? People you pay to say the same shit they say to hundreds of other clients and then make fun of you in the breakroom with other medical professionals "OMG, they were so gross lol."

High odds that anyone beseeching you to not kill yourself because it might affect them is indeed the selfish one. They are likely the type to even use your death for social points by pretending to be sad on social media or other outlets--so you'd actually be giving them a boost. If you take care of arrangements like pre-need with a funeral home or have a will/pay-on-death/cremation money and most of your belongings in order you are inconveniencing people less than death through unexpected means.

 

[escape_from_hell]

In my opinion, grief will happen whether it's suicide or not.

Exactly. People upset with you selecting the timing on your guaranteed end. When would it be convenient for them? Cuz it's coming no matter what.

 

[sancsuinet]

I can empathise with people who think it is selfish. However, I think that thought also stems from selfishness.

No one wants to lose someone. Whether through suicide or any other death. I think the difference is that with suicide, it is a choice, which makes people angry. Although, a lot of the time it feels like there is no other choice.

Of course, refusing to empathise and try to understand why someone wanted to end their suffering is also a bit selfish.

I think everyone is selfish in their own way. In the end it doesn't matter, you need to put yourself first. You can call that selfish, but "putting yourself first" can also be a means to recover.

Everyone is responsible for their own happiness, why should you sacrifice yours for others? I don't see anyone sacrificing their happiness for others by allowing them to CTB.

In my opinion, people on this site might be the most selfless people I've ever met. They allow you your freedom, without pressure, without guilt.

i agree with this!

 

[Ambivalent1]

Why be friends with an idiot?

 

[Placo]

Tell your friend he's a fool.

 

[derpyderpins]

It is selfish to commit suicide, and it is selfish to tell some one not to. The difference is the suicidal person is being selfish with their own life while the anti suicide person is being selfish with someone else's life.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Suicide is not selfish - keeping someone alive and trapped in endless suffering for own sake just to avoid grief about the loss is selfish. It's a POV and there are always pros and cons. There's not a final answer to that. Depending on the reasons why someone sees not other way out but suicide there would be ways to make some lives more bearable but in most cases the ones who are against suicide either can't help or don't want to help.

 

[shaucro]

Every action that every single person performs can be interpreted as selfish, at least at some level. And that is perfectly understandable. We can only ever be motivated by our own perceptions, even in helping others. Plus, our every single action impacts on someone else, necessarily and always. If someone is going to call 'selfish' then there's more than enough to go around.

I personally wouldn't let an accusation of selfishness deter me, but then I don't believe I act in an overtly selfish way, or with unnecessary levels of selfishness. I might question myself but probably only as a sense check, or out of interest for someone else's pov.

 

[Throwawayacc3]

But only if you succeed.

I think this is the worst take.
One that can only come from someone who doesn't know how it feels to be hopeless.
The courage it takes to commit and the edge you have to be pushed to before you consider it, let alone follow through seriously.

They talk about how awesome the poem the view from halfway down from bojack horseman is but the only way to get the view from halfway down is to truely believe you are going to die. If you know you are going to survive there is no realisation. They don't understand the depth and beauty of the poem if they don't understand the resolution of suicide.

The idea that the element of selfish or selflessness can change by the outcome of the act is fucking stupid. The intention is what matters and the idea that if you succeed and you dont let people help you through after (because your dead) your selfish is fucking stupid.

Its also a take that comes straight from the mouth of someone whos never felt *actually* selfish suicide, which almost never suceeds, because theres never an intention to die, only the threat of it.

That's not your "friend". You need to avoid these people like the T-Virus. I wouldn't be surprised if you "friend" went out and started talking to others about what you said.

Most people live by their own experience and cannot or will not comprehend how others are.

 

[UKscotty]

It's selfish to not give people the help and support so they can recover.

If people were properly helped and there was a massive investment in mental health, people wouldn't kill themselves in the first place.

 

[Meteora]

Your friend... is an idiot, pardon my French. And he/she has no clue.

 

[Lady Laudanum]

Suicide can be compared to jumping out of a burning building and falling to your death. It's not necessarily about wanting to die per se. It's the fact that living is unbearable. If it's genuinely unbearable for someone to stay alive and there's nothing that can be done to make the situation better, then it's selfish to force people to continue living.

 

[Dark Moon]

I don't think it's selfish because it's my own life that I'm taking and not anyone else's. I'm not in a good position and I don't see hope, I should be able to choose to exit this world.

 

[lizzywizzy09]

Sticking around and being a burden can also be selfish. Wanting someone to stick around for your own piece of mind while they suffer is also selfish.

 

[restinpeace2]

I understand why people see it as selfish, it can seem cruel to create the trauma of a loved one passing voluntarily. But either way whether it's self inflicted or not, the trauma and grief that comes with someone passing is guaranteed either way. Eventually we will die, and we will leave pain to those we leave behind, no matter how it happens that is guaranteed. So if it's going to happen either way, we should be able to decide when we would like to go, on our own terms. It is not selfish to make a decision about your own mortality, you will die eventually anyways - it is more selfish to suggest that someone live for the sake of others in my opinion.

Being guilt tripped by family who don't understand is unfair

 

[restinpeace2]

I understand why people see it as selfish, it can seem cruel to create the trauma of a loved one passing voluntarily. But either way whether it's self inflicted or not, the trauma and grief that comes with someone passing is guaranteed either way. Eventually we will die, and we will leave pain to those we leave behind, no matter how it happens that is guaranteed. So if it's going to happen either way, we should be able to decide when we would like to go, on our own terms. It is not selfish to make a decision about your own mortality, you will die eventually anyways - it is more selfish to suggest that someone live for the sake of others in my opinion.

Being guilt tripped by family who don't understand

I don't think it's selfish because it's my own life that I'm taking and not anyone else's. I'm not in a good position and I don't see hope, I should be able to choose to exit this world.

Personally, I was a high functioning child, but becoming an adult has caused me to realise that I haven't got the skills needed for survival. This makes me lower functioning as as adult. I don't really have a Support network either. I have case workers, but they can't get involved as I would like to, such as solving issues with my bills, taking phone calls and accompanying me to appointments. There are times when I need a helping hand to find resolutions to my problems. The way my brain works, is that I can't fathom the complex letters I receive from the Council or Housing benefit, plus adult social care don't respond when I asked for help either. I wouldn't choose to be on Universal Credit, and ideally I would have lived in a more supported environment, but even that is inaccessible for me. The time constraints where I was forced to find emergency accommodation in a limited time, while being persistently harassed by my mother ultimately lead to me being in a housing arrangement that isn't suitable for me. The issues I face are more on the cognitive side due to ASD, but most people perceive me as a normal person so don't entirely think I need help. When I am sent links to websites for self help and advocacy, they don't help me. I need more of a support network since my family really can't help me. I need a more caring environment. In the past when I had problems with my mental health, they used it against me in arguments to hurt me even more. They used the bible to say that I was commiting a sin. That is why I am not selfish, but had to leave them when they use the blame culture on me whenever I was feeling low

 

[KillMeh]

Lol that makes no sense