Meghan's Law

[TheLastSacrifice]

Has anyone heard of some dumb law in the states where my friends could get into trouble for knowing I had plans to ctb?

 

[NextBusLeaving]

Has anyone heard of some dumb law in the states where my friends could get into trouble for knowing I had plans to ctb?

Meghans law is a sex offender thing iirc

 

[TheLastSacrifice]

Okay. Good. I don't foresee any infractions in that particular category of law in my lifetime.

 

[Potiphera]

If you're referring to this case:
Wikipedia Suicide of Megan Meier

It lead to laws around cyber stalking but not foreknowledge of suicide

 

[TheLastSacrifice]

Yeah if I remember right this gal was malicious towards him.

Yeah if I remember right this gal was malicious towards her boyfriend and told him that he should just kill himself.

 

[squirtsoda]

If we're talking about the US I'm fairly sure your friends could only get in trouble if they were healthcare professionals. Although that might only extend to while they're "on duty". In the US I think the prevailing theory is you can't get in trouble for not preventing a crime/tort committed by someone else. Suicide is a crime in most places. But for more serious crimes I would be surprised if they tried sticking a conspiracy charge on somebody who knew something was about to happen. I doubt that with suicide though. However, if your friends encouraged/assisted it and there was documented evidence of that, or they admitted that, then yeah there would obviously be trouble for them.

 

[waterbottleman]

If we're talking about the US I'm fairly sure your friends could only get in trouble if they were healthcare professionals. Although that might only extend to while they're "on duty". In the US I think the prevailing theory is you can't get in trouble for not preventing a crime/tort committed by someone else. Suicide is a crime in most places. But for more serious crimes I would be surprised if they tried sticking a conspiracy charge on somebody who knew something was about to happen. I doubt that with suicide though. However, if your friends encouraged/assisted it and there was documented evidence of that, or they admitted that, then yeah there would obviously be trouble for them.

I don't understand how suicide is a crime. If you attempt suicide and succeed....well you're dead so there is nobody to charge with that crime. However if you try to suicide and fail, well I've never heard of anyone being charged for attempting suicide and failing.

?

 

[Taylored]

I don't understand how suicide is a crime. If you attempt suicide and succeed....well you're dead so there is nobody to charge with that crime. However if you try to suicide and fail, well I've never heard of anyone being charged for attempting suicide and failing.

?

Destruction of State Property is a crime. *Which is why It's illegal

 

[Lookingforabus]

Has anyone heard of some dumb law in the states where my friends could get into trouble for knowing I had plans to ctb?

There's no such law in the US, but there have been a couple high profile prosecutions of women whose boyfriends CTBed. (Inyoung You and Michelle Carter). Allegedly they both encouraged their boyfriends to CTB, so that's why they got charged. (Again, allegedly. I'm not one to believe a word that a professional liar such as a politician or prosecutor says, so I'm positive these cases are just a prosecutor looking to score political points by virtue signalling.) I'm unaware of anyone being charged for just knowing about plans to CTB, except for healthcare professionals who had a legal obligation to report suicidality.

I don't understand how suicide is a crime.

It's generally not anymore, at least in the Western world, but encouraging or assisting suicide is. And even if it's not a crime, suicide is still punished severely with mandatory psychiatric commitment, "for your own good", so as far as consequences go, I don't see much of a difference. It's not a crime, but you'll still lock people up for it... typical government tyranny.

 

[Delia]

Idk if the Duty to Rescue law is appliable in that situation

 

[TheLastSacrifice]

Those women were not nice people but charged with a crime for words is just....dumb.

 

[squirtsoda]

I don't understand how suicide is a crime. If you attempt suicide and succeed....well you're dead so there is nobody to charge with that crime. However if you try to suicide and fail, well I've never heard of anyone being charged for attempting suicide and failing.

?

You don't get always charged for every crime you commit, if you get charged for attempted suicide there was probably something else going. Down in New Zealand where I'm originally from i did see it several times in the news that somebody was charged with attempted suicide.

 

[Quarky00]

Just knowing is not enough .On the suicide front they need to assist or help commit suicide (inc being emotionally supportive of ctb).

On the general negligence side they need to be in position to provide significant help in order to be negligent. Some states have strong negligence laws, but rarely used. Authorities won't pursue unless clear evidence. Civil law may be used by vindictive family members to harass etc (but with little result).

If they knew of imminent danger (exact when and how) and did nothing -- they may be investigated.

It has been discussed in several threads, but can't find right now, maybe you will :)

* Duty to Care = Professionals
* Duty to Help/Rescue = you saw a man dying and did nothing (not even called ambulance). Usually serious accidents when one flees the scene.

 

[AlreadyGone]

I do not believe it is a crime for knowing you are going to ctb. It would be a crime if they aided, assisted, or influenced you to ctb.

 

[TheLastSacrifice]

Yeah I also got the name of the law wrong.

 

[WhiteDespair]

Read the legal section of 5 Last Acts.

 

[NotWhatIExpected]

Just knowing is not enough .On the suicide front they need to assist or help commit suicide (inc being emotionally supportive of ctb).

On the general negligence side they need to be in position to provide significant help in order to be negligent. Some states have strong negligence laws, but rarely used. Authorities won't pursue unless clear evidence. Civil law may be used by vindictive family members to harass etc (but with little result).

If they knew of imminent danger (exact when and how) and did nothing -- they may be investigated.

It has been discussed in several threads, but can't find right now, maybe you will :)

* Duty to Care = Professionals
* Duty to Help/Rescue = you saw a man dying and did nothing (not even called ambulance). Usually serious accidents when one flees the scene.

"On the suicide front they need to assist or help commit suicide (inc being emotionally supportive of ctb)."

That is so fucked up

We live in a pretty evil society if that's the case

Like if someone gives you their permission or forgiveness for committing suicide, that counts as being illegal?

 

[Quarky00]

"On the suicide front they need to assist or help commit suicide (inc being emotionally supportive of ctb)."

That is so fucked up

We live in a pretty evil society if that's the case

I actually understand that from the judicial perspective , to minimize damage and potential harm . A person can be in a position to be very supportive of another suicidal person tendencies , without any coercion or encouragement , and that could be very well 'wrong' sometimes . There's "more safe than sorry" angle to that . But obviously it is motivated by a strong pro-life anti-ctb position .

The fact that you cannot be there when someone ctb just to support them , yeah , that's really fucked up Other than peaceful end , it's the one thing I would have really wanted . And it's so basic ..

To make that point a bit finer I think that in most cases (probably outside US) officers will choose not investigate such cases , out of empathy (especially with the elderly rather than 'the depressed' etc) . But then again there's the British-Dignitas case -- where the wife accompanying husband to Switzerland was investigated as "helping" -- despite CPS guidelines against that! Messy stuff .

 

[NotWhatIExpected]

I actually understand that from the judicial perspective , to minimize damage and potential harm . A person can be in a position to be very supportive of another suicidal person tendencies , without any coercion or encouragement , and that could be very well 'wrong' sometimes . There's "more safe than sorry" angle to that . But obviously it is motivated by a strong pro-life anti-ctb position .

The fact that you cannot be there when someone ctb just to support them , yeah , that's really fucked up Other than peaceful end , it's the one thing I would have really wanted . And it's so basic ..

To make that point a bit finer I think that in most cases (probably outside US) officers will choose not investigate such cases , out of empathy (especially with the elderly rather then 'the depressed' etc) . But then again there's the British-Dignitas case -- where the wife accompanying husband to Switzerland was investigated as "helping" -- despite CPS guidelines against that! Messy stuff .

What a nightmare

 

[Roger]

Within the comity of Common Law nations there is generally no legal requirement to rescue or assist a person in danger or distress. Of course there are provisos and exceptions for persons with a specific duty of care. Parents of a minor, for example, or members of the emergency services.

In contrast, many other nations do impose an obligation; in Essen recently several people were identified from CCTV footage and charged with a criminal offence when they ignored, and stepped over, an octogenarian who had collapsed, and subsequently died, in a bank.

I can believe it - as a UK citizen living in what was then West Germany (early 70s) I once saw an elderly man collapse as I was driving past. I stopped and rendered assistance, as any decent person would, but I was the only person who did.

Remember Kitty Genovese in New York ? Famous case, but beyond the memory of most people on this forum, I'll warrant. She was stabbed to death in Queens in 1964. I recall the year, as I know where I was when I read about the case in Time Magazine. Nearly 40 people either saw or heard the attack and did nothing, neither came to her aid nor even called New York's Finest. But none of them were indicted - how could they be ? - Common Law nation - No offence in law.

But this raises a rather interesting question. Whilst suicide and attempted suicide is no longer a criminal act in most countries, assistance or incitement is, as has been discussed on the board before. Now if X has certain knowledge that Y is about to commit suicide, and has the means to do so, yet does nothing as Y completes the act, has X "passively assisted" in the suicide by doing nothing to stop it ?

Discuss.

 

[squirtsoda]

@Roger spot on.