NSFW 🤪💦 Lustful Delirium

[ClippedWings]

You can't survive without oxygen or food. You can survive without sex. No one has ever died a natural death from not having sex.

Survival is a contingent requisite of a coequal expectation—reproduction. The reproductive system exists as an expectation of itself: to reproduce. While survival may be the lower-order condition, it doesn't negate the higher imperative. And if we consider chronology, reproduction must have been among the first expectations to emerge—making it, paradoxically, as foundational as survival itself.

There is a symmetry of causality between survival and reproduction. Survival begets reproduction, and reproduction begets survival, then repeat symmetrically.

This makes survival and reproduction, symmetrically contingent expectations of one another.

 

[ke9]

I want to stand up for ClippedWings here. The one useful thing that the--mostly unhelpful--doctor I saw said was that enforced celibacy for men is a very difficult thing. And then she said that no one talks about it honestly today: Men who bring it up are insulted as incels and hung out to dry as pathetic.

Think about it this way: 1) There's a biological imperative for reproduction, which both sexes feel. 2) Men are gaslighted today into thinking that being the sensitive guy is attractive to women--but this is only true if a base-line level of sturdy masculinity is already in place. 3) Society shames men for being either too soft or too forceful. 4) Women's issues are recognized as social problems; instead, society tells men that we're the problem.

 

[TotalEclipse]

Survival is a contingent requisite of a deeper expectation—reproduction. The reproductive system exists as an expectation of itself: to reproduce. While survival may be the lower-order condition, it doesn't negate the higher imperative. And if we consider chronology, reproduction must have been among the first expectations to emerge—making it, paradoxically, as foundational as survival itself.

I'm not entirely sure what this pseudo intellectual jumble of unearned pretentiousness means, but you aren't owed a single thing. People die as soon as they're born, and often times before that. They also get taken out without any warning going about their day, though they expected to not die until later. You aren't owed sex just because you really want it and not getting it upsets you.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

You're not getting it. You're talking about preferences after you're born. I said "born in expectation of". Lungs expect oxygen, regardless of your preference. Biology undergoes exaptation, and so too could this process occur through preferences, but that doesn't negate the expectation prior to being conscious. You can repurpose (exapt) a screwdriver a thousand ways, but it was designed in expectation of a screw to match it. Not hard to understand.

Your rants about expatation is completely irrelevant as the point being made is that you are choosing to make this a bigger than deal than it has to be. The biology argument falls apart when you consider the fact that plenty of people don't care about stuff like this. At some point, the issue is you and not your "default expectations".

 

[ClippedWings]

I'm not entirely sure what this pseudo intellectual jumble of unearned pretentiousness means, but you aren't owed a single thing. People die as soon as they're born, and often times before that. They also get taken out without any warning going about their day, though they expected to not die until later. You aren't owed sex just because you really want it and not getting it upsets you.

If you don't know what it means, why not ask a question?

Please take my words more seriously if you're going to cast judgments.

I never said I was owed a single thing. I said I was born in expectation of it.

Here is the difference between being owed and an expectation:

Being Owed

Implies a moral, social, or contractual obligation.
If you are owed something, it means someone else is responsible for delivering it, and you have a justifiable claim to receive it. There's a sense of debt or duty involved.

Example: "I did the work, so I'm owed payment."

This implies an external force or system—someone else is failing you if it's not given.

---

Expectation

Is an internal assumption or belief about what should happen.
It can exist without being "owed." An expectation doesn't require a promise or debt—it just reflects what you believe will (or should) happen. It's shaped by biology, culture, experience, and instinct.

Example: "I expected to be loved."
That doesn't mean someone owed you love—but your wiring, your experience, or your human condition made you anticipate it.

---

The Key Difference:

• Owed = a claim you can rightfully make on someone else.
• Expectation = a condition you were wired to anticipate, but no one is obligated to fulfill.

---

So when I say I have an expectation of sex, intimacy, connection—I'm not saying anyone owed it to me. I'm saying it was built into me like hunger, sleep, breath. It was part of my design.

And that's powerful. Because not being owed doesn't mean not needing.

 

[cme-dme]

Anyone: Expresses issues relating to lack of sex
This entire forum: Bro sex is overrated bro! You sound like such an incel bro! Let me just yell my opinion at you that'll help!

What a great "support" forum.

 

[deadstillwalking]

there's just absolutely no way anyone who reads this thread doesn't get major brain damage

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Anyone: Expresses issues relating to lack of sex
This entire forum: Bro sex is overrated bro! You sound like such an incel bro! Let me just yell my opinion at you that'll help!

What a great "support" forum.

It's all about tone and phrasing tbh.

 

[yxmux]

i think it's strange that op has to go in great length to defend himself here. this sounds like a primarily ocd problem with a focus on sexual frustration (which is a very human thing btw) if im understanding this correctly. humans are not simply self-preserving but also sexual reproducers, and even without actual reproduction, that sexual instinct still exists. different humans with different experiences have different reactions to this instinct. as it relates to op, i suppose it's also possible for bodily distress or functional neurological issues to emerge, but idk anything about this.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

this sounds like a primarily ocd problem with a focus on sexual frustration (which is a very human thing btw) if im understanding this correctly.

OCD has to do with having intrusive thoughts (e.g., thoughts of harming others, thoughts of contracting or spreading disease, thoughts of being harmed, etc) that cause one severe distress, leading to them engaging in repetitive behaviours, aka compulsions. This is not what we are seeing here. They seem to just want to want to have sex. This issue seems to not be a direct symptom of their OCD.

 

[ClippedWings]

i think it's strange that op has to go in great length to defend himself here. this sounds like a primarily ocd problem with a focus on sexual frustration (which is a very human thing btw) if im understanding this correctly. humans are not simply self-preserving but also sexual reproducers, and even without actual reproduction, that sexual instinct still exists. different humans with different experiences have different reactions to this instinct. as it relates to op, i suppose it's also possible for bodily distress or functional neurological issues to emerge, but idk anything about this.

You're keen. But OCD's implication in this case is uncertain. It doesn't yet seem worthy of invocation—at least not yet. Perhaps by the end of this comment.

Essentially, it was the collision between my innate sexual instincts—carrying a non-zero expectation of fulfillment—and the vivid, imagined potential for their full expression, that fractured my mind. Juxtaposed against my estranged, pathetic reality, the sheer contrast induced acute delirium.

The basal expectation alone isn't enough to unmoor me. But when it's multiplied by the depth and intensity of the fantasy I hold—craved, embodied, and dangerously believable—that's when the feedback loop begins. If I'm not careful, that loop escalates into a kind of mental vertigo.

The key isn't to deny the base instinct. That part is constant, inbuilt. The prevention lies in resisting the indulgence of ever-more potent fantasies, which feed on themselves and amplify detachment.

This issue seems to not be a direct symptom of their OCD.

This is where OCD might be involved—not in the originating desire, but in the inflexibility, the resistance to disengaging from the loop. Its grip isn't in the content of the thoughts, but in the likelihood of their recurrence.

Sexual stimulation acts as a catalytic force for the cascade—just as ruminations on what I could have been pour accelerant onto the fire.

And now: nearing the day of my death, having not fulfilled this primordial desire may be increasing the value of the instinct itself in the equation. A kind of death-throe of the reproductive system. It will not go quiet into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. This implies that indulging in thoughts of equal measure to the past now breaches the threshold of delirium—not because the thoughts are stronger, but because the inbuilt, non-zero expectation of sex, intimacy, and connection has risen.

Edit #1: After further consideration, the weight of OCD here is greater than I initially admitted. Not only because of its cognitive inflexibility, but because it also injects horrific and highly disturbing thoughts that run contrary to my daydreams. This dissonance, between fantasy and intrusion, deepens the chaos—turning what should be a refuge into a battleground.

Your rants about expatation is completely irrelevant as the point being made is that you are choosing to make this a bigger than deal than it has to be. The biology argument falls apart when you consider the fact that plenty of people don't care about stuff like this. At some point, the issue is you and not your "default expectations".

Imagine telling someone who's spent 13 years in solitary confinement—no human touch beyond clinical necessity—that the delirium caused by being deprived of the most primal force he was born expecting to express, was his fault, because he chose to make too big a deal out of it.

 

[Chinaski]

Imagine telling someone who's spent 13 years in solitary confinement—no human touch beyond clinical necessity—that the delirium caused by being deprived of the most primal force he was born expecting to express, was his fault, because he chose to make too big a deal out of it.

Imagine being the fucking idiot who conflates the sexual frustration of those with unremittingly repellent personalities with actual long-term solitary confinement.

 

[ClippedWings]

Imagine being the fucking idiot who conflates the sexual frustration of those with unremittingly repellent personalities with actual long-term solitary confinement.

The 13 years of solitary confinement is caused by OCD and extreme back/nerve pain, not by personality. You have to actually read the original post and the link in it. I'm not defending unremittingly repellent personalities. I'm not talking about personalities at all. It sounds like you think I'm saying being a virgin because of a bad personality is akin to long-term solitary confinement. This is entirely false. Unless you're baking physical and mental pathologies into a person's personality? If so, who is repellent and why? You're saying OCD and back/nerve pain makes me repellent to you?

 

[Higurashi415]

i think it's strange that op has to go in great length to defend himself here. this sounds like a primarily ocd problem with a focus on sexual frustration (which is a very human thing btw) if im understanding this correctly. humans are not simply self-preserving but also sexual reproducers, and even without actual reproduction, that sexual instinct still exists. different humans with different experiences have different reactions to this instinct. as it relates to op, i suppose it's also possible for bodily distress or functional neurological issues to emerge, but idk anything about this.

it seems that some people on this forum have a knack for throwing anything that has to do with sexual urges (coming from males especially) in the incel bucket even if it has nothing to do with it

 

[ClippedWings]

it seems that some people on this forum have a knack for throwing anything that has to do with sexual urges (coming from males especially) in the incel bucket even if it has nothing to do with it

It's probably just pattern recognition. The only male archetypes that voice concerns in this manner are disproportionately "incel". This is because the men who have satisfied their sexual expectation don't voice these concerns, or they do, in less measure. I'm unique because my virginity is a consequence of a horrifically bad synergy between OCD and back/nerve pain, rather than personality, unless you include physical and mental pathologies into personality.

So, readers' pattern recognizers are match fitting me for energy savings. This approach lacks nuance and is the mark of children, bad faith actors, emotionally biased interlocutors, or people who lack emotion control. At a minimum, it lacks curiosity of any kind.

But to be fair, curiosity gets drowned under the weight of emotional exhaustion, hopelessness, and cognitive narrowing. When the brain is in pain, it tends to tunnel, not explore. The future collapses inward; the world loses depth and potential. Curiosity needs a bit of openness to possibilities—even dark ones. But suicidal thinking often comes from a place where all doors seem closed or meaningless.

That said, some suicidal people remain deeply curious, even painfully so. Curious about the why of their suffering, about metaphysical questions, about alternate versions of their life that could've been. That curiosity can either torment or sustain them. It can be the last ember that keeps them alive—wanting to know what's just past the pain.

So it's not about being less curious by nature—it's that the mental state can blunt the expression of curiosity, or redirect it into obsession, rumination, or fantasy.

 

[ClippedWings]

Wow. This guy is an absolute fucking moron. Roll on 4 weeks for the sake of the women in his life

sonder (noun): the realization that each random passerby is living a life as vivid and complex as your own

 

[femcelloser]

Oh my God this thread is still going?

 

[yxmux]

I'm not entirely sure what this pseudo intellectual jumble of unearned pretentiousness means, but you aren't owed a single thing.

i suspect he has a tendency to use very stilted language under stress. he might be feeling like he miscommunicated what he's trying to say. i kind of relate to that

i kind of wonder if op could have schizotypal personality disorder or something similar

 

[Mocha]

By the time I was 18 years old, OCD replaced my true identity with itself. Because intellect serves identity, my intelligence served this false master. It used symmetry to feel safe. How? Because symmetry = beauty = order = control = safety. My broken brain had an overactive fear system, like a motion sensor that triggers from the wind. OCD locked my true self away in a prison for 13 years. Then, my intellect built, brick by brick, a fortress around myself. Ironically, in its attempt to keep me safe from irrational and imagined threats, it killed both itself and my true self. Why? Because it denied my true self, which would have pursued a positive delta in life, aka growth. I would've been pro-social and been on tons of dates. Gone to events, worked hard, played hard, and banged hard. Because of this, the underlying insidious degenerative disc disease and full body acne would've needed to be addressed promptly. I would've gotten proper negative feedback by life and people, and that would incentivize me to fix the issues. Instead, OCD turned me into a rotting recluse living only in low-light and neurosis. So, my degenerative disc disease became permanent nerve damage and pain, and my acne is full body scarring.

Only after my second back surgery have I learned who I was really supposed to be. A pro-social, charismatic, passionate lover, leader, risk-taker, womanizer, serial dater, and on and on. But instead, the following happened. I was excluded from humanity and lived in double solitary confinement for 13 years. I can imagine the exhilaration and madness of life. How swelling and magical it could've been.

It started to hit me around 27—that slow, growing realization that I wanted the exact opposite of what my life had become. But by then, it was already too late. My nerve was irrecoverable, though I didn't know it yet. I spent the next three years fully immersed, pouring every ounce of focus and intellect into trying to fix it. The culmination of all that effort was a somewhat experimental implant. It didn't work.

In late 2021, I made myself a promise: if I couldn't save myself from the nerve pain—if I couldn't meet even the bare minimum requirements for a livable life—then I would end it. Not out of impulse, but as the only way to spare myself from endless suffering.

Things kept getting worse. After the failed implant, life collapsed in on me. The full weight of a wasted existence crushed me to pulp—seized my mind and hasn't let go. That was seven months ago. Since then, the catastrophe of waste—and the sheer force of the craving—have driven me to the edge of delirium. I nearly slipped into it again last night, but somehow, I fought it off.

I couldn't see it when it was happening. I thought I was the OCD. Time and time again my behaviors, preferences, aesthetics reinforced that I was desirous of what OCD wanted. But, 13 years later, I see that the real me was imprisoned. So deeply that I didn't even feel lust for the opposite sex, when all along, I was supposed to be Casanova. This goes to show, who you really are, may be completely covered up by your OCD. You may even be the opposite of whom you think you are, like I was.

Somehow you must dispel yourself and find whom was locked away long ago. Who you would be without fear. There is another attitude, one that my OCD would've hated. I quote, "it relaxes by changing". My OCD loved stasis, because it was control and thus safety, so no fear. But that attitude denies life. When you deny life, life denies you, trust me, I know this to the maximum extent. One must relax by changing. What does this mean? Do not cling to static forms of beauty. Find pleasure in the flux. Your nervous system can be even relaxed amidst strife and change, how beautiful would that be!

I write this 4 weeks before the date of my medically assisted rational suicide.

I don't think people are fully reading or understanding your texts. I understand, they are a bit wordy and it's obvious you're an intelligent - and distressed - writer. But the thing is, there isn't a whole lot of empathy, or sympathy, for men like you. People find it very hard to understand what a lack of social and romantic satisfaction does to someone, especially women (of average or above average looks and health both physical and mental). They will think about your struggle and come up with a solution that would work for THEM, and there will be some obvious conflation expressed in their advice. They may associate someones mental illness and lack of physical attractiveness with just being dirty; where the infamous "take a shower bro!" line comes from. They can't imagine a life where their own body happens to betray them, and because of it they end up excruciatingly isolated.

I'm sorry for what you have went through, and I can't understand the full extent of your pain. People may call you shallow for your description of how you expected your life to go. Those people do not realize that most men expect this life to make it to them, at a young age, yet only a select few get it - the romance, the partying, the dream chasing, being desired. All of it. It is the reward for, often, not more than good genetics (both physical figure and health, and mental health/intelligence and consciousness). Something earned not through merit but through chance just so happens to make a person indispensable to our society, and those men tend to be the only ones that aren't "invisible". So people like you get lost in the pile of average and below average men, to be used and discarded at will and if not healthy enough to be useful left to rot.

OCD runs in my family. My cousin went suicide a few years ago after fighting OCD and depression for years, and from the outside the man's life seemed pretty put together; wealthy, physically attractive and healthy, incredibly talented artist. But his brain just wouldn't let him be happy, even after all the meds. He lost the fight.

I've kept my OCD at bay, but when I was only 14 it reared it's ugly head for the first time and for 6 months or so I struggled to even leave my room. I avoided people, and sat in my room ruminating. It was horrible, the constant feeling of paranoia and how that affected me physically is almost indescribable - a person would need to experience it to truly understand, which is why I don't blame people for not knowing what to say in a conversation about OCD, especially ruminant, existential, pure OCD, any type that takes place primarily in ones own head.

I'm not going to try to convince you to stick around. It seems like you've made up your mind, and SaSu isn't for convincing you not to find peace in death anyways. All I can say is, I hope you do find peace, and I'm sorry this incarnation has went so poorly for you. See you on the other side.

 

[Anne Alias]

This is....????
alright!

 

[Pipsqueak!]

You are not "in need of" or being "deprived of" sex. You can function like the rest of us. Not having sex doesn't kill you like not eating does. You're just horny and being extremely weird about it.

Put the porn down and stop watching red pill content.

 

[ClippedWings]

I don't think people are fully reading or understanding your texts.

I've been thinking about the reactions I've gotten, and I can actually understand where some of them might be coming from—especially from women.

I think, for some, what I wrote may have landed like a threat—not because of what I actually said, but because of what it represents: a man speaking openly and unapologetically about his sexual expectations. In a world where many women have experienced sexual coercion or assault, I can see how my words might awaken a latent fear—that men could one day act collectively on their frustration, to dominate or exploit. That fear is rooted in lived experience and history, and I get that.

But I didn't blame anyone. I didn't issue threats. I just reported what it feels like to rot in the bowels of male sexual deprivation—something society doesn't even have a language for. I tried to describe the raw mechanics of longing, absence, fantasy, and decay. And that kind of honesty, I think, becomes too much for people. So they lash out. They say it's entitlement, or misogyny, or mental illness—because admitting that a person can be destroyed simply by the absence of love and touch is far more terrifying.

Why is that so scary? Because if society ever recognized male sexual deprivation as a respectable illness, it would imply that there's a legitimate need to address it—perhaps even a duty to satisfy it. This, in turn, might stir fears, particularly among women who've already been harmed by men in this way. The idea that acknowledging this deprivation could lead to a societal expectation of women fulfilling these needs could trigger deep-seated fears of exploitation or oppression. It's not a simple issue, but a messy tangle of pain, fear, and historical dynamics.

Of course, this reply offers them far more good faith than they afforded me. The guesses I made above relate to a larger societal conversation, whereas my post is a description about my lived experience, not a prescription about what should be done to prevent or fix it. I honestly blame my OCD and back/nerve pain for my virginity, and always have.

They also have lazy match fitting pattern recognizers, because they really know nothing, and want to know nothing, about me. This tells me they think in very low resolution. As I said earlier, they're assuming I'm an archetype that I'm extremely far away from. Actually, it's part of what makes my situation so sad, is how rare it is.

Those people do not realize that most men expect this life to make it to them, at a young age, yet only a select few get it - the romance, the partying, the dream chasing, being desired. All of it. It is the reward for, often, not more than good genetics (both physical figure and health, and mental health/intelligence and consciousness). Something earned not through merit but through chance just so happens to make a person indispensable to our society, and those men tend to be the only ones that aren't "invisible". So people like you get lost in the pile of average and below average men, to be used and discarded at will and if not healthy enough to be useful left to rot.

I'm clearly being misunderstood. I never expected any of that to happen. I said, "born in expectation of". That refers to a biological expectation that precedes my own consciousness. Relating to an in-built force that had a non-zero contribution to my delirium, as it still does.

The expectation that people seem to be conflating is what I'd have expected to happen if I didn't have OCD or back/nerve pain.

For me, what's so crushing, is that, if it were not for the OCD and back/nerve pain. I would've been one of the rare men to live out my fantasies. I had the face, body, intelligence, aura, charm, charisma, imagination, confidence, skill, fashion, etc. But that man was imprisoned. What hurts so insanely is finding out what was taken this late. That's why I use the prison metaphor. Because, imagine you were born a 1% man, but instead of ever using a single gift or lucky roll, you are sent to prison, actually, solitary confinement, at 18 years old. Thirteen years later, I'm still in that prison. The only way out for me is death.

It's extra sad because I was very desired until I went to "prison", but rejected all female advances. Truly, a miserable life.

That's why I called myself 'ClippedWings', because I can imagine an angelic (or demonic ) alternate timeline where my wings weren't clipped. The delirium comes from the juxtaposition between what is and what could've been. The chasm is so vast, it literally induces delirium. I just have to force myself not to let it escalate.

 

[lucyanne]

So I've had a good read of the thread and the language you use and the way you express yourself unfortunately does give off incel vibes.

There are many flaws in your arguments that you try to cover with over intellectual language because you do seem smart enough to know how to structure a sentence in a way to be confusing.

This could just be an inability in me to easily understand your communication style and I'm open to that discussion.

However are you open to the discussion about how and why your comments and thought processes seem similar to incel ideaology?

 

[ClippedWings]

All I can say is, I hope you do find peace, and I'm sorry this incarnation has went so poorly for you. See you on the other side.

Thanks! Peace to you as well!

It will be a win not to wake up to a nuclear explosion in my back.

However are you open to the discussion about how and why your comments and thought processes seem similar to incel ideaology?

Sure, no problem, but you should start by telling me what you think I'm saying, because if I'm being misunderstood (seems extremely likely), then your similarities might be totally irrelevant.

 

[Mocha]

I'm clearly being misunderstood. I never expected any of that to happen. I said, "born in expectation of". That refers to a biological expectation that precedes my own consciousness. Relating to an in-built force that had a non-zero contribution to my delirium, as it still does.

Ah, so what you're saying is it's an inborn expectation rather than one built through social norms? Not gonna lie, I kinda had a "Fight Club" angle on it.

"We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off."

Because, imagine you were born a 1% man, but instead of ever using a single gift or lucky roll, you are sent to prison, actually, solitary confinement, at 18 years old. Thirteen years later, I'm still in that prison. The only way out for me is death.

More common than comfortable, for a man with potential to be held back by illness, or addiction, depravity... Whatever it may be. Seen it with my own eyes.

Thanks! Peace to you as well!

It will be a win not to wake up to a nuclear explosion in my back.

 

[Outofoptions1]

I skimmed through the thread so I didn't read everything, but some of the responses to OP I've read so far are quite shocking. OP seems like he's craving sex and intimacy but doesn't really seem bitter about it. I haven't seen anything that gives off incl vibes or hatred/bitterness towards women.

I used to be somewhat of an Incel myself in my younger days before smartening up, but I don't get that vibe from OP. I'm more than happy to be corrected. Again, I didn't really read too much in depth. To me it sounds like people ITT are shitting on OP for voicing his frustration with being lonely.

If that is the case then OP, you have my deepest sympathies. Your story has lots of similarities to mine. For context, I was an Incel back in my early 20s. Through sheer dumb luck, I ended up in two loving relationships and got to experience sex and intimacy. Sadly I ruined these relationships and at age 32, find myself in the same predicament I was in 10 years ago; lonely, sexually frustrated and in pain.

Like you, my chronic pain has destroyed my life and contributes to me being an unattractive partner. It's one of the main reasons why I'm going to CTB.

Again, I'm not taking sides here and am open to being wrong, but I don't think OP comes off as an incel.

 

[recurringdesire]

It's absurd to see all these women moralizing on the cusp of suicide. I never really understood the duty to respect others, humanize others, and be a good person throughout my entire life. If you're a naturally apathetic person like myself, all you see in morality and humility is just duty to a nonexistent concept. Trying to set a minimum standard of ethics for a human being right before your suicide is unbelievable, it means you still affirm life by enjoying the principles you hold. To OP: pay for prostitutes if you want, it's your life.

No of offense or judgement meant, but I think you should reassess what your "expectations" are.
The world isn't built around our expectations

Why are you even on this forum if you're just going to invalidate others' desires? Why should anyone empathize with your complaints on this forum rather than just telling you to "reassess expectations" on a whim? There is an unfixable set of factors that lead him to this forum in the first place, and our problems are just as valid as his.

Thanks! Peace to you as well!

It will be a win not to wake up to a nuclear explosion in my back.



Sure, no problem, but you should start by telling me what you think I'm saying, because if I'm being misunderstood (seems extremely likely), then your similarities might be totally irrelevant.

To you, OP: I hope you understand that life is simply constant suffering, and soon after losing your virginity, you're just going to become bored of your latest conquest, until you are stimulated by the next major life problem (e.g. financial or psychological problems). No amount of sex will fix neuroticism. Even after getting laid, I still wanted to kill myself over almost any trifle imaginable, the weather, my executive dysfunction, my finances my grades, my fear of aging, etc.

That being said, you should definitely look into going to Thailand and leveraging your wealth for sex.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I never really understood the duty to respect others, humanize others

Morality is something that, on a very basic level, is likely influenced by some innate mechanisms that most of us possess (though I would still argue that a lot of morals are pretty subjective, especially the more complex ones). In some capacity, it stems from what are likely innate basic systems that evolved in order to promote things like cooperation.

Studies have shown that even infants are able to recognize prosocial behaviours to at least some extent. For example, there was a study that was done in which researchers had babies watch a puppet show that involved a circle having trouble moving up a hill. They first habituated them to this scene and then they showed them two different scenes in trials 1 and 2. One scene involved a square character (the good guy) helping the circle up the hill, while the other involved a triangle ("the bad" guy) pushing the circle further down the hill. Afterwards, they had the parents close their eyes and brought out the two shapes and what they found was that the babies generally chose the good guy over the bad guy. When they did the experiment again, this type switching the good guy and bad guy roles around (triangle = good, square = bad), they found that the results were consistent (I.e. the infants preferred the good guy over the bad guy). Beyond that, there is also research providing evidence that toddlers do consider the moral intent of others and showcase prosocial behaviours as well.

Of course, morality is still strongly impacted by things, like culture and personal experiences, and thus there is a massive subjective element to them, but people generally tend to innately prefer prosocial behaviours over antisocial behaviours, which includes showcasing respect towards others.

You aren't the main character. Other people also have their shit to deal with so showing basic respect towards others and humanizing those around you is basically doing the bare minimum in making this world a slightly less shitty place to be in. It's really not that hard to understand.

 

[ClippedWings]

Ah, so what you're saying is it's an inborn expectation rather than one built through social norms? Not gonna lie, I kinda had a "Fight Club" angle on it.

Yes, the inborn expectation (that which I was "born in expectation of"), was my point. It's just a biological observation. Lungs expect oxygen, stomachs expect food, genitals expect genitals. Talking about expectations came from a simple misunderstanding early into the thread.

Although, your point about "Fight Club" is good. I had no, let's call it, manufactured expectations. But, the fantasies I have now, may be the product of synthesizing cultural content. Of course, being in "prison" for as long as I have, has caused me to be a side character in my own life. In doing so, I've been exposed to much better ways to live, and I've been exposed to plenty of "alternate timelines" my mind might feel deprived of. It may also be similar to Plato's allegory of the cave, where all I see are 2D projections (images and videos) of the 3D reality (see attachment).



That being said, I don't actually think it has had much effect, if any at all. I truly believe I could achieve my fantasies if not for the OCD and back/nerve pain. Most of them have very little-to-no context. Meaning, I don't focus on anything material, such as money, housing, or status. The fantasies are entirely focused on the deep, sexual, intimate bond with the feminine. That's really it. I have such a craving for the feminine. As natural as milk and honey. I should also say, I'm basically certain, reality is even better than my fantasies, by a long mile.

No millions, mansions, or mogul. Just deep, eye-to-eye contact with someone who has a soul worth stealing.

What hurts so badly, is dying with such a deep, untapped well of love I never got to share. I was never seen, never known. Just watched shadows on a wall, while chained to a rock in a cave. But, I don't need the shadow of a woman, to imagine, that which, I was born in expectation of.

Dying at 98% charge !

More common than comfortable, for a man with potential to be held back by illness, or addiction, depravity... Whatever it may be. Seen it with my own eyes.

Would you mind clarifying this for me? Are you saying comfort wastes men more than illness, addiction, or depravity?

I haven't seen anything that gives off incl vibes or hatred/bitterness towards women.

I have no hatred or bitterness towards women. From my recollection, I never have. For my virginity, I blame OCD and back/nerve pain. I've never blamed a human being for my predicament.

But I do harbor a profound hatred toward nature itself. And in a symbolic sense, women could be seen as proxies for nature—after all, they play the role of "that which selects." Yet they are no less subject to nature's whims than I am, and I don't hold that against them.

What I do think is necessary, though, is this: we need to decouple the stewardship of inheritable traits from women alone and reframe it as a shared human responsibility—something held in common between the sexes.

That would require women (and men too) to step outside the deterministic recursion of being mere observers shaped by instinct—to develop a kind of metacognitive free will. But I don't see that happening. And without it, the recursion just continues: instincts selecting instincts, over and over, without conscious intervention.

It's an unexamined assumption that there's intelligence—let alone wisdom—within the black box of female sexual selection. Just because it's evolved doesn't mean it's enlightened. Evolution has no moral compass, only outcomes.

Other species have gone extinct through runaway selection models, where females uni-dimensionally optimized for a single exaggerated trait—antlers too large, feathers too ornate, signals too costly, tails too long.

Why should we believe that human mate selection is immune to such recursive absurdities? Especially when the selectors themselves remain unexamined and unexamining—guided not by foresight but by instinct dressed up as intuition.

I find their successful stewardship of desirable traits to be of critical importance—if it increases the chances that those, as worthy of empathy as I, might one day live without the great impediments I've endured. If women, through their selection, act as the filter that prevents the recurrence of the evil it is to be trapped in a body like mine, then so be it… for now. But alas, their track record isn't looking good.

These words primarily serve the betterment of the lives of the "next ones." As our genetic tree blooms, nature will not hesitate to sever the deleterious branches. It requires significant artificial scaffolding to support deleterious branches, often in the form of an enmeshed mother.

Like you, my chronic pain has destroyed my life and contributes to me being an unattractive partner. It's one of the main reasons why I'm going to CTB.

I'm sorry. I know how it feels. My self-hatred is so strong because of my illnesses that I haven't looked in a mirror in months.

 

[recurringdesire]

Morality is something that, on a very basic level, is likely influenced by some innate mechanisms that most of us possess (though I would still argue that a lot of morals are pretty subjective, especially the more complex ones). In some capacity, it stems from what are likely innate basic systems that evolved in order to promote things like cooperation.

Studies have shown that even infants are able to recognize prosocial behaviours to at least some extent. For example, there was a study that was done in which researchers had babies watch a puppet show that involved a circle having trouble moving up a hill. They first habituated them to this scene and then they showed them two different scenes in trials 1 and 2. One scene involved a square character (the good guy) helping the circle up the hill, while the other involved a triangle ("the bad" guy) pushing the circle further down the hill. Afterwards, they had the parents close their eyes and brought out the two shapes and what they found was that the babies generally chose the good guy over the bad guy. When they did the experiment again, this type switching the good guy and bad guy roles around (triangle = good, square = bad), they found that the results were consistent (I.e. the infants preferred the good guy over the bad guy). Beyond that, there is also research providing evidence that toddlers do consider the moral intent of others and showcase prosocial behaviours as well.

Of course, morality is still strongly impacted by things, like culture and personal experiences, and thus there is a massive subjective element to them, but people generally tend to innately prefer prosocial behaviours over antisocial behaviours, which includes showcasing respect towards others.

You aren't the main character. Other people also have their shit to deal with so showing basic respect towards others and humanizing those around you is basically doing the bare minimum in making this world a slightly less shitty place to be in. It's really not that hard to understand.

Well I don't care one bit to maintain your standard of morality, and no process of reason will bring me to your altruistic conclusion. You can write to me about the innate prosocial behaviors of babies and/or primates, or the general tendency of humanity for 10 years straight, and you wouldn't change my disposition at all.

I know that I have much lower moral standards than you because I literally have engaged in sex tourism before, and I have no bad conscience from that. You and I may have had only slight variations in our senses of morality when we were babies, but whatever has happened since then (the way our parents raised us, our social circle, our gender expectations, etc.) opened a huge rift between us. Who knows, someone could enter this thread saying that they rape and kill babies, and we would both be appalled at their level of transgression. I'm not denying that I have a sense of morality, but I am a lot less prudent about morality and I hold less empathy compared to you.

Ultimately it's utterly impossible and useless to change peoples' moral prudence through a process of argumentation/reason, so typing paragraphs and paragraphs of rationalizing has zero rhetorical grip on me or OP, compared to personal experiences, irrational drives or brain chemistry. Did you really think sitting through an ethics lecture would make someone a better person?

I am not going to continue this discussion because you will not sway my opinions one bit, it's totally unproductive.