Discussion Is there a hell?

[Deleted member 847]

Yes it's called planet earth

 

[Nauseated]

I respect your religious belief, but how can you verify any of the above?

I dont subscribe to theism as well, but I don/t think the bible should be discredited completely. The way I see it is that the bible was written to be understood by people of that time and the way they did that was through story telling which tends to embellish and exaggerate quite a bit. Also these people had a lot less understanding of our world as we do today and were doing their best to make sense of what they could have observed to create these stories in the first place. If you take the mysticism and supernatural jargon out of it and read it more as something that could of happened today I think there is some worth to these stories. Like how I see some of the people who were raised from the dead could have just fallen extremely ill and had died and came back just like how there are accounts of people dying and being resuscitated today. there are accounts of people being mistaken for being dead when they actually weren't, I could see this happening more so in ancient times before modern medicine and our understanding of different ailments and diseases. I'm sorry if I'm not being very coherent tonight I have been up for a few days without sleep.

 

[Deleted member 847]

As for the after life, when I fainted I didn't experience anything and woke up after minutes like they were one second. But I guess dying and fainting are not the same thing so I can't say.

 

[YaYaDr]

That's a good question, but how can we know it's not true?
I understand a lot of it sounds far fetched, and a lot of it doesn't make sense, but same as with life, a lot of it is far fetched and doesn't make sense.

I understand your position, this is the effect of years of indoctrination that is tough to overcome even though you profess to some level of agnosticism now. Here's how I look at it. The burden of proof is on religion, not vice-versa. Why? Because the null hypothesis is only logical. If we accept any claim that is nonfalsiable, then you would have to accept over a 1,000 other religions in the world. Do you lose sleep over going to an Islamic hell? Probably not. Therefore, you should have no reason to fear Christian hell.

 

[Definitelyworried]

As for the after life, when I fainted I didn't experience anything and woke up after minutes like they were one second. But I guess dying and fainting are not the same thing so I can't say.

The Bible compares death to sleep more than fifty times. After death we are asleep, we are unconscious; we are not aware of the passing of time or of what is going on around us.

 

[war-is-lost]

You know the worst thing for me about reading the bible from cover to cover is that I went from beleiving that I was going to heaven, to all of a suden having atheist thoughts and at the same time thinking I'm going every one I know is going to hell including myself.
That was such a spycological blow to me.

I was brought up in a Catholic family but I became agnostic growing up. I am not arrogant enough to say that God definitely doesn't exist but the evidence weigh heavily against his existence. You shouldn't beat yourself over becoming an atheist as if presented with the evidence, your logical mind tells you the existence of God is implausible, I am sure God won't hold it against you especially when you have spent so much effort in trying to seek him.

 

[Definitelyworried]

I understand your position, this is the effect of years of indoctrination that is tough to overcome even though you profess to some level of agnosticism now. Here's how I look at it. The burden of proof is on religion, not vice-versa. Why? Because the null hypothesis is only logical. If we accept any claim that is nonfalsiable, then you would have to accept over a 1,000 other religions in the world. Do you lose sleep over going to an Islamic hell? Probably not. Therefore, you should have no reason to fear Christian hell.

The bible is the most well known oldest collection of writting put together in history.
Scientist have been wrong about a lot of things because the null hypothesis has not been used strictly.
I hate being mixed up about all this.

 

[Definitelyworried]

I was brought up in a Catholic family but I became agnostic growing up. I am not arrogant enough to say that God definitely doesn't exist but the evidence weigh heavily against his existence. You shouldn't beat yourself over becoming an atheist as if presented with the evidence, your logical mind tells you the existence of God is implausible, I am sure God won't hold it against you especially when you have spent so much effort in trying to seek him.

You are one of the first person ever to tell me and recognize the amount of effort I have used to seek him.
Thank you for that.
You don't know how many times a day I hear that I need to try and seek him more, or how many times I hear that I need God.
And beleive me I tell them in the same way why I have trouble beleiving what the Bible says.
I'm just really mixed up, but really thank you for your comment.

 

[YaYaDr]

The bible is the most well known oldest collection of writting put together in history.
Scientist have been wrong about a lot of things because the null hypothesis has not been used strictly.
I hate being mixed up about all this.

It's fine to be mixed up. Nobody has all the answers. One of the most important things in life is to be able to say "I don't know". It may surprise you to learn, but many atheists do not make the claim that God absolutely doesn't exist (hard atheism), we simply say we don't believe there is a God. Belief and knowing are 2 different things. Coincidentally, I find it curious when I speak to theists who are absolutely convinced in their God.

Anyways, I'm not sure how much you know about the scientific method and the purpose of the null hypothesis. It is only the starting point of any scientific inquiry and not meant to be accepted as dogmatically true. It is accepted only so long as evidence has not demonstrated it to be false (ie. innocent until proven guilty).

Edit: the age and popularity of something has nothing to do with its truth. If that were the case, wouldn't it make more sense to be Jewish - the oldest of the 3 Abrahamic religions?

 

[Definitelyworried]

It's fine to be mixed up. Nobody has all the answers. One of the most important things in life is to be able to say "I don't know". It may surprise you to learn, but many atheists do not make the claim that God absolutely doesn't exist (hard atheism), we simply say we don't believe there is a God. Belief and knowing are 2 different things. Coincidentally, I find it curious when I speak to theists who are absolutely convinced in their God.

Anyways, I'm not sure how much you know about the scientific method and the purpose of the null hypothesis. It is only the starting point of any scientific inquiry and not meant to be accepted as dogmatically true. It is accepted only so long as evidence has not demonstrated it to be false (ie. innocent until proven guilty).

Edit: the age and popularity of something has nothing to do with its truth. If that were the case, wouldn't it make more sense to be Jewish - the oldest of the 3 Abrahamic religions?

The old testament in the bible (Torah) are the oldest jewish books, in fact they are older than book that Jewish people now follow (Talmud). And the reason why they now follow the Talmud, gives even more creditability to the Bible.
So the bible has the oldest religious books that jewish people have claimed as their own, even though some Jewish people now reject those old books. Overall the Jewish people don't hold Jesus or the new testament too highly, to say it nicely.

 

[YaYaDr]

The old testament in the bible (Torah) are the oldest jewish books, in fact they are older than book that Jewish people now follow (Talmud). And the reason why they now follow the Talmud, gives even more creditability to the Bible.
So the bible has the oldest religious books that jewish people have claimed as their own, even though some Jewish people now reject those old books. Overall the Jewish people don't hold Jesus or the new testament too highly, to say it nicely.

That is a very nice way of putting it, lol! Basically, Jewish people are still awaiting their Messiah.

But just so my point doesn't get lost in translation, my reason for bringing this up was to say something being ancient has nothing to do with something being true.

 

[becca]

Hope not

 

[typx]

I used to believe that there is free choice where certain decisions are made and you bear the consequences. I am not so sure any more, to a very large extent, where you end up in life is dependent on genetics and the things that happened to you where you have absolutely no control over. In hindsight, I believe I could have played my cards dealt better but I would just prolong the inevitable. As such, I have accepted my fate as a complete failure in every aspect of life.

This is where I'm at as well. I've gone through my life a million times in my head and there's never a different path. I've tried over and over to 'fly right', but I always fall back into the same old pattern. It just repeats itself over and over as the repercussions get worse and worse.

I do have more clarity and see how crazy I've been. How desperate and angry. But that attitude stretches back as far as I can remember. How do you change your nature?

 

[Gray Wounds]

If your mind dies believing there is then there will be.

 

[Deleted member 847]

If your mind dies believing there is then there will be.

I dont' understand? What do you mean?

 

[Tomasnil]

I wonder what religion would work if it claimes there is no afterlife . Just the end

 

[Gray Wounds]

I dont' understand? What do you mean?

The meaning is there already, I presume. I cannot elaborate it further nor make it anymore clearer. Apologies.

 

[typx]

I dont' understand? What do you mean?

He means that your beliefs dictate your final experiences. So if you believe there is a hell as you die then you'll experience it as you will be intensely focused on it. Near-death experiences seem to back this up a bit. But like everything else. No one really knows.

 

[Deleted member 847]

He means that your beliefs dictate your final experiences. So if you believe there is a hell as you die then you'll experience it as you will be intensely focused on it. Near-death experiences seem to back this up a bit. But like everything else. No one really knows.

Ah I got it now. I read some Robert Monroe books. you're referring to the belief system territories?

 

[Thoughts95]

Yes there is a hell. It's earth. I mean that in a spiritual way too

 

[typx]

Ah I got it now. I read some Robert Monroe books. you're referring to the belief system territories?

I don't know who Robert Monroe is. Maybe.

 

[YaYaDr]

Here's the thing about religion, at least the ones which assert the existence of a hell. No matter what you believe, your religion condemns the majority of people to hell. Consider Christianity as a single monolithic entity (and that's assuming a lot considering all the denominations that exist). There are by most estimates somewhere just north of 2 billion people who call themselves Christians. That means that over 5 billion people are going to hell for the egregious crime of not accepting Jesus as their saviour. Are you a Muslim? Great! That means 5.5 billion people will go to hell. Are you Hindu? Well Yama (the Hindu god of death) better make a lot of room because over 6 billion people will be going to hell.

No matter how you look at it, the majority of people are going to hell. This doesn't bother me one bit though. Why? Well, I liken this to what George Carlin once said on the topic:

America prays for god to destroy our enemies. Our enemies pray for god to destroy us. Somebody's gonna be disappointed! Somebody's wasting their fucking time! Could it be... everyone?

 

[Tiredman]

I highly doubt hell exists and honestly hope it doesn't. If traditional Christian hell exists: all sinners and non-Christians end up there regardless of whether or not they are generally good people or not. Then we have to contend with the many different views of hell within Christianity itself like if Catholics are 'right' then only Catholic Christians can go to heaven and every other Christian is lumped together with the non-believers and sinners. I personally think hell was just made up in the early days of Christianity as a means to prevent conversion into other faiths. People were much more likely to stay or convert to Christianity if they feared that they'd burn in a pit of horrible burning agony after they died. It also worked well to prevent people from breaking laws and committing crimes against the monarchs of the time that proclaimed their divine right to rule.

As for the afterlife theres many possible ways to theorize its existence but the evidence for it is often discounted because it's considered a scientific taboo. They still do not fully understand consciousness nor can they explain the mechanism in which the brain creates it. It's called the hard problem of consciousness and its still being actively debated and researched.

I personally believe in something after death because of personal paranormal experiences. There are also millions of other people who have reported similar experiences like NDE's, ghosts, reincarnation stories and many other strange phenomenon. It would only take one of those cases to be correct to suggest in something after death.

 

[LookMomImFlying]

I wonder what religion would work if it claimes there is no afterlife . Just the end

The way I understand it, Jehovah's Witnesses believe when you die, you simply turn to dust and that's it.

 

[Readytogo227]

I thought that with Hinduism the souls gets reincarnated based on karma or something.

 

[Jren]

I do not believe in heaven or hell. When we die we die and just like an insignificant cog of a machine , we are replaced by another cog. The society machine must keep running.

 

[Definitelyworried]

I highly doubt hell exists and honestly hope it doesn't. If traditional Christian hell exists: all sinners and non-Christians end up there regardless of whether or not they are generally good people or not. Then we have to contend with the many different views of hell within Christianity itself like if Catholics are 'right' then only Catholic Christians can go to heaven and every other Christian is lumped together with the non-believers and sinners. I personally think hell was just made up in the early days of Christianity as a means to prevent conversion into other faiths. People were much more likely to stay or convert to Christianity if they feared that they'd burn in a pit of horrible burning agony after they died. It also worked well to prevent people from breaking laws and committing crimes against the monarchs of the time that proclaimed their divine right to rule.

As for the afterlife theres many possible ways to theorize its existence but the evidence for it is often discounted because it's considered a scientific taboo. They still do not fully understand consciousness nor can they explain the mechanism in which the brain creates it. It's called the hard problem of consciousness and its still being actively debated and researched.

I personally believe in something after death because of personal paranormal experiences. There are also millions of other people who have reported similar experiences like NDE's, ghosts, reincarnation stories and many other strange phenomenon. It would only take one of those cases to be correct to suggest in something after death.

Actually even a lot of "Christians" will also go to hell, only very few will go to heaven according to the bible.

 

[Caerula]

When discussing the bible with Christians/theists I am always curious to know, how do you know the bible is true?

I think they neither have proofs nor want to prove God exists or Bible is true. They only have beliefs imo... 'God exists because I believe it exists and Bible is true because I believe it is true.'

 

[PhilistineEars]

Well, the way I figure it is... if there is a hell, then all the people that deserve to be there will be there. So if I'm there because of this, at least they're also there.

 

[PsychoPyro]

If there is, my brain will be destroyed anyway, therefore I cannot experience it :)

So there is, but I'm living in it now.