Is suicide selfish?

[Deleted member 847]

Suicide is both selfish and not selfish. Selfish because it hurts your loved ones and not selfish because you don't owe anyone anything and you should be able to choose to do with your life as you please.

That's basically my point expressed without funny metaphors.

 

[LastDay]

@NoLifeNoPain Glad I could be of service. Also I personally quite liked your metaphors then again I'm quite sassy (as described by my therapist) so there's that.

 

[wanttodie]

I hate people who call suicide selfish.

 

[WayOut]

I like this argument

Thank you for commenting!.

My first lazy effort was 3 dense paragraphs of suspiciously pretentious philosophical propositions and arguments. It was sound enough, but I vomited. So I started again and wrote something I hoped was the argument in plain English, just keeping the main points. That way people can easily see what I'm saying and can agree or disagree.

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

Selfish is also bringing children into this fucked up world.

 

[WayOut]

People who ctb are going through worse pain than grief, and grief is temporary.

People also suicide because they are just over the shit, and no longer want to participate in the ridiculous and pointless circus.

 

[Redt2go]

People also suicide because they are just over the shit, and no longer want to participate in the ridiculous and pointless circus.

Me AF

 

[faex42]

Suicide frequently causes tremendous pain and guilt to family and friends left behind that lasts for years. Those who wish to deny that can post from now until their final day but it won't change the pain that has haunted so many survivors who have chronicled their pain. Is it selfish? That's really a hard one to answer. If someone feels that life on earth is Hell and wants to cbt that should be their right. I know in my case it was only consideration for significant others and family members that stopped me in the past. That's not the truth for everyone. For myself the years have passed and now there are fewer people who will be impacted. I have tried my best to be open about my desire to leave this world without having anyone try to section me

 

[waived]

@Sixfeetunder Autonomy is selfish though it's just that with a lot of these arguments there's no moral operator of good/bad attached to the word but conceptually it's still keeping within the understanding that we are a social species.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

I realize most people vehemently disagree with me, but I think suicide is among the least selfish things humans can do. But I've given up trying to talk or write about suicide. Either someone deeply gets it or not. It's also ironic that a world that goes out of its way to make sure you know it feels you're sh*t and unworthy of basic human companionship, even to taunting you to kill yourself already, would then hypocritically tell you suicide is selfish.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

So now I'm not letting anyone know what my true intentions are so no one can stop me when the time comes

When I let a friend in school (university) know I was suicidal, less than a half hour after finishing the phone conversation, the police BROKE down my door, rifled through my bedroom drawers (humiliating), dragged me down to an ambulance as my entire neighborhood looked on in disgust, and berated me on the way to the hospital and while an officer was forced to wait with me for a medical evaluation. Then I was forced out of that apartment when I returned. Never ever ever let others know what you're going to do if you really want to leave. I'll never make that mistake again.

Sorry you're in pain. Peace.

 

[Sixfeetunder]

I realize most people vehemently disagree with me, but I think suicide is among the least selfish things humans can do. But I've given up trying to talk or write about suicide. Either someone deeply gets it or not. It's also ironic that a world that goes out of its way to make sure you know it feels you're sh*t and unworthy of basic human companionship, even to taunting you to kill yourself already, would then hypocritically tell you suicide is selfish.

PREACH!!! You could even argue that taking up earth's resources if you don't want to live is selfish. There are almost 8 billion people in this world and resources are scarce, how dare you live and use them when you're not happy! You can argue anything is selfish.

I also thought it's odd how some people will push another person to suicide, and suddenly that person is selfish if they ctb. But what about the people who pushed someone else to suicide? Aren't they selfish?

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Why you would ever willingly talk to a cop is beyond me

I rarely ever laugh out loud while reading posts on this site, but I did at the above. Thank you. Wholly agree. :)

 

[Kyrok]

A society which makes no room for suicide is a society that fails to respect personal autonomy.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

PREACH!!! You could even argue that taking up earth's resources if you don't want to live is selfish. There are almost 8 billion people in this world and resources are scarce, how dare you live and use them when you're not happy! You can argue anything is selfish.

I also thought it's odd how some people will push another person to suicide, and suddenly that person is selfish if they ctb. But what about the people who pushed someone else to suicide? Aren't they selfish?

Totally agree. But usually adding in ecological costs to (additional) human life... only disengages even more people so I don't bother elaborating. But those of us who see things this way, we can take comfort, I hope, in sharing with each other.

I agree, too, with your comment about bullies... I work in education. I can't tell you how often I've had dinner... with parents of violent bullies who defend their children as "just kids." The biomedical and sociological evidence is very clear that bullying can destroy entire lives because the catastrophic effects can last over childhood and adulthood. But the victim, after getting no help for years while parents and administrators and professional counselors and legal experts defend the rights of bullies, is "cowardly" and "selfish" for finally desperately fleeing. I haven't the patience to debate others on the irrationalism of that perspective.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

A society which makes no room for suicide is a society that fails to respect personal autonomy.

Extremely important point. Thank you.

 

[Final Escape]

I was talking to a cop a while ago and he was saying that suicide is the most selfish thing you can do especially if you have a home and a family. What do you guys think about suicide being selfish?

Yes it is, but it can be unselfish as well. Depends on how you look at it I guess. Some people are going to leave more damage behind than others if they ctb.

 

[989-X]

It's just as selfish expecting someone to stay in their own personal hell.

This can't be emphasized enough.

 

[WayOut]

Autonomy is selfish though it's just that with a lot of these arguments there's no moral operator of good/bad attached to the word but conceptually it's still keeping within the understanding that we are a social species.

That's pretty clumsy. You linked three concepts but didn't make a coherent point. Try again?

 

[lost_soul83]

When I let a friend in school (university) know I was suicidal, less than a half hour after finishing the phone conversation, the police BROKE down my door, rifled through my bedroom drawers (humiliating), dragged me down to an ambulance as my entire neighborhood looked on in disgust, and berated me on the way to the hospital and while an officer was forced to wait with me for a medical evaluation. Then I was forced out of that apartment when I returned. Never ever ever let others know what you're going to do if you really want to leave. I'll never make that mistake again.

Sorry you're in pain. Peace.

I'm sorry you had to experience humanity at its worst. People can be so cruel and stupid. No one cares anymore about what's happening to a fellow human being if they're not in their little bubble, disgusting.

 

[Amber1974]

Why do we have to remain here suffering if every day for us is mental torture and psychological hell? Who decides how much is enough? We're the only ones living our life and the only one who knows what it's like for us.

 

[lululoo]

I don't feel selfish because I believe my living decades longer would entail far more suffering than the pain my early death would cause others. Even if the pain I caused was greater, I don't think it's my duty to stay alive.

The greatest pain will be felt by my parents. They fucked me up though. Right now I pay the price of their abuse in my years of suffering since age 11. If I go, then they take over the pain. Seems fair.

 

[locusdelicti]

I think it's important to differentiate between "self-centered" and "selfish."

Selfishness (to me, at least), connotes a lack of caring for others, a lack of empathy, and a propensity for shirking responsibility (as opposed to exercising a choice free from a duty, either self-imposed or adopted). Self-centeredness is more of a focus on the needs of oneself, which, in and of itself, is not necessarily morally "wrong." I think actions, including taking one's life, can be self-centered and selfish or self-centered and NOT selfish.

I personally struggle with remaining pro-choice when it comes to an adult with minor children.

 

[Redt2go]

@FTL.Wanderer
"ironic that a world that goes out of its way to make sure you know it feels you're sh*t and unworthy of basic human companionship, even to taunting you to kill yourself "
You've just had experience with a shitty subset of the world

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

I personally struggle with remaining pro-choice when it comes to an adult with minor children.

Thanks for your observation of flavors of "selfish." Agreed. As very strongly pro-choice as I am, I also have a problem with having made a commitment to another being but making the choice to leave anyway. I'd really, really love an animal companion but I can't rescue one because I know I have to leave in no more than two years.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

You've just had experience with a shitty subset of the world

Perhaps. But if someone is the kind of person their culture prevalently feels antipathy for, that person's experience of their culture will likely be very different than the experiences of the average person in the same culture. Those same (abusive) people may not seem "shitty" to the average people in their culture but may be legitimately shitty towards those the culture unjustly deems worthy of abuses. I'm not trying to make "excuses." But people can be very shitty to some while being compassionate to yet others, skewing the perception of what's objective. Hope I'm not offending.

 

[Redt2go]

Perhaps. But if someone is the kind of person their culture prevalently feels antipathy for, that person's experience of their culture will likely be very different than the experiences of the average person in the same culture. Those same (abusive) people may not seem "shitty" to the average people in their culture but may be legitimately shitty towards those the culture unjustly deems worthy of abuses. I'm not trying to make "excuses." But people can be very shitty to some while being compassionate to yet others, skewing the perception of what's objective. Hope I'm not offending.

Your not offending but a culture is still a subset of the world... The whole world is not out to get you. The world is not an entity. The world isn't trying to make you feel anything.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Your not offending but a culture is still a subset of the world... The whole world is not out to get you. The world is not an entity. The world isn't trying to make you feel anything.

I'm not sure what prompts this. I'm even more surprised to find it here. I made impersonal and statistical claims (prevalent, likely, most, average) I think can be supported empirically.

 

[anelakapu]

It would genuinely be better for me to be dead. Im not saying that shallowly like 'ohh my friend and family will miss me' i dont have friends or family that need me and am just not remarkable or missable. I do mean to toot my own horn but the fact that i am still alive is a testament to how fucked survival of the fittest has become. I should not be fucking alive lol sometimes suicide is just a necessity.

 

[TheRiverStyz]

It's no more selfish than people who expect others to live (or stay alive) for them.