Is Sanctioned Suicide becoming Sanctioned Terrorism? The answer is probably no, but...

[noname223]

I think the answer is no. But I wanted a provocative title.

But recently a pretty questionable thread popped up. Someone praised an anti-natalist/pro-mortalism terror attack in a thread on here. The thread is now deleted. (Many people disagreed with the take of this thread.) Gladly. The thing is the terrorist was member of this forum. And hinted in this forum that will go with some drama. He stayed very vague though. I think this could draw even more attention of law enforcement to this forum. When I read that thread (afterwards) I always had in mind the FBI will read that thread too. Lol. We are surveilled. There already was a terrorist on here. I think the person stabbed some other people and killed noone. The pro-mortalist terrorist also killed noone except himself (injured 4). I am pretty happy that some members are very vocal againist inceldom. I think this ideology is dangerous.

I think the forum has to be very clear and the members too that we don't condone under no circumstances violence againist other groups. Especially, no terror attacks. It is not unlikely this forum gets taken down some day. But such a mentality could be a speed run in this instance.

 

[bankai]

Being suicidal is OK but homicidal is not.

Also, we can't really give the authorities much ammunition to work with but of course there will always be that one individual who does something that might bring attention.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

I hadn't heard about that. That's really crazy. As an antinatalist I'd hate to see someone who subscribes to the philosophy involved in something like that-we're usually completely against violence and suffering. It's good the thread got deleted-I'm sure 99% of the forum were against it. The mods are pretty good at getting stuff like that removed and making it clear the site is against that.

 

[leloyon]

Hard pass. We don't have any duty to "be very clear" that we don't condone these things, unless someone like that moron comes and tries to justify it, in which case we should call them a fool for doing so. Outsiders will gladly condemn us either way, in any case. If that means taking a screenshot of the OP talking his nonsense, and just conveniently ignoring all replies, then they will do so, if they haven't already (I don't care enough to look at the pro-lifer pages to see for myself).
News flash: If someone is planning on committing mass murder, a forum they use (likely one of many) saying that actually, that kinda thing is bad, will simply cause that person to roll their eyes. And it's the same with any outsiders. It has absolutely zero bearing on anything whatsoever.

That being said, if you don't assume that everything you post publicly is actively being scrutinised by the glowies, you are a fool. To anyone who feels the need to try to justify terrorist attacks on here, enjoy getting a visit from them. A lot of people think that because they're behind a screen and using a username rather than their real name, that they are beyond consequences. Even people who already grasped that this wasn't the case, still convince themselves that getting that dreaded knock on the door is what happens to other people, but not them, it wouldn't happen to them.
Yes, it can and will happen to you.
There's nothing that makes you any different from any other chucklefuck who gets his door kicked in for being too edgy online. Oh, but you're the one who wasn't serious about it? How do you know that everyone else this happened to were all 100% serious, because the news told you so, right? Because they're so reliable. You're the one who was just joking, and surely the feds will recognise that? The cops have no sense of humour and neither do the prosecutors or judges.

 

[LastNite]

I've seen a few incels on here. Mind you the definition of an incel isn't someone who can't get in a relationship. It's someone who blames and hates women for not being able to get a relationship. They go that pfp of the guy who killed like 7 people his name is Elliot Rodger. This forum should ban people like that. It's a suicide forum for fuck sake not a forum for hatred.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I saw a YouTube report on that attack. Oh God, I didn't know they were a member here. That certainly won't help the 'extremist' image a lot of people likely already have of this place.

It's true that a lot of people hold anti-natalist views here but we almost all exclusively hope it's something people would think about and choose for themselves. There's absolutely no need for violence. Plus, it won't change anything.

I find it sickening some people want to hurt total strangers in some bid to prove a point.

 

[whywere]

We are ALL THE SAME period!!!!!!!

Nationality, religion, ANYTHING does NOT ever matter, we are ALL human PERIOD!!!!!

I was just reading about 100, 000 years or so ago, the human population on earth was around 1000. So that means that ALL of us are interconnected, and we should ALL work TOGETHER.

This earth is a nest, and we WILL go out among the stars, or we WILL be just like the dinosaurs, EXTINCT.

Fighting amongst each other, greedy ANYTHING will make sure that we WILL be gone.

We HAVE to work together and ADVANCE and EVOLVE or else period.

That is why this site is SO special as we all work together for the common good of each other.

Hugs, love and so much kindness to each and every soul on here.

Walter

 

[Arachno]

Damn I just logged in after quite a while of inactivity and I find out about this. Horrible.

 

[bankai]

Damn I just logged in after quite a while of inactivity and I find out about this. Horrible.

You need to login more often so you can nip this kind of thing in the bud.

 

[cemeteryismyhome]

The answer is easy: "NO"

 

[Pluto]

I did a bit of homework on the situation and have commented a bit elsewhere.

In short, the young man struck me as having very similar in personality to Ted Kaczynski. There seemed to be some unspecified past trauma in the picture combined with a towering intelligence (particularly his talent as a chemist). The interplay of mental illness and high IQ gave rise to his fierce arrogance. He stated that only one person in the world was capable of engaging at his lofty level. That friend was a young woman who died recently, resulting in his rapid unravelling, even unto attempted murder and suicide.

He engaged in a lot of pseudo-philosophical ramblings, identifying strongly with a slew of internet labels (which I have described as cults) that seem to derive from Reddit and such places. The common theme was a genuine respect for nature (including veganism) but a total and absolute disregard for human life, both his own and others. I would describe him as radicalised inasmuch as there was no doubt in his mind that murder was justified with respect to his opinions of humanity.

My own controversial take is this: while it is relieving that this guy's violence is not condoned here, his actual beliefs are uncomfortably familiar. Every other thread on here is along the lines of 'should we eliminate all life on Earth?' or 'is all life bad?' or 'is human procreation the ultimate evil?' and on and on it goes, day and night.

In the cases that I've seen, the purportedly philosophers who claim to have figured out life are sorely lacking life experience outside of sitting in front of their computers, and angry because they are lonely. They lack the introspection to direct their anger at root causes (past abusers, illness, their own mistakes, or whatever else). Frankly, if the same people had better sex lives, their entire 'philosophy' would instantaneously dissipate. In my view, this whole doomer cult is all juvenile.

This anti-life propaganda bears no resemblance to legitimate suicide-related issues around giving suffering people a right to a dignified and peaceful death. If anything, it is directly counterproductive by portraying us as a bunch of weirdos incapable of rational engagement with the outside world. Worse, the echo chamber can be an ingredient in radicalisation, though in most cases it would merely accelerate a young person's inclination towards suicide, as opposed to acting out violently towards others as happened in this case.

I don't think anything will change since the purportedly philosophical stance seems to be supported by the site's admin at the highest level. So, just like the philosophers, I am 'just venting'.

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

My own controversial take is this: while it is relieving that this guy's violence is not condoned here, his actual beliefs are uncomfortably familiar. Every other thread on here is along the lines of 'should we eliminate all life on Earth?' or 'is all life bad?' or 'is human procreation the ultimate evil?' and on and on it goes, day and night.

Well there is a difference between a specific group of people who don't deserve it and everyone, the case for everyone would be that at least it's not discriminatory, although this isn't something one person can achieve and neither should they strive to, people who hate humans like I do realise that humanity itself and all life is and always was on a timer, they'll all die eventually. So I never bother with taking out my hatred on what I would consider trash or scum of the earth, they'll take themselves out eventually , however that long may take and the rest of normal people or good people will follow the trash , in the same place, regardless of how they acted in life.

Death fortunately/unfortunately is equal to everyone.

And to give an insight as someone who has violent thoughts about sending evil people to oblivion, which is something that bothers me since I already stated, it's pointless, they'll all die but my emotions still get the better of me somedays.

I actually dislike when killers who call themselves philosophers go on killing sprees to prove this type of point, especially when their target is not even the correct one. Why even bother? you are not cleansing the world of shitty humans, you are probably ending the lives of normal people who had nothing to do with your pain and suffering and secondly this is not what you'd consider anti-human either, this seemingly senseless killing; you are taking your anger out, you are not enforcing your philosophy, only a robot would be able to do that, you are biased in your judgement. This is why I can somewhat understand why killers do the killing but I don't respect/love/idealize/fantasize them, I understand, but I don't want to kill innocent people, I want the pedo billionaires dead and to string them up. That's kind of it really. Just take Luigi's example, I don't necessarily like the guy , I just like the way he went about his problem and at the same time helped others get their rightful JUSTICE , not revenge, JUSTICE , done.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

This site obviously attracts mentally ill people, and letting harmful ideologies fester isn't great, but if you speak out against this stuff, you get hit with "free speech, invalidating, just venting" bs so idk what the solution is. I guess just cringe at the occasional terrorists/predators that come out of this place.

 

[Forever Sleep]

This site obviously attracts mentally ill people, and letting harmful ideologies fester isn't great, but if you speak out against this stuff, you get hit with "free speech, invalidating, just venting" bs so idk what the solution is. I guess just cringe at the occasional terrorists/predators that come out of this place.

I was thinking this last night. Should there be a 0% tolerance online in general for people hinting at anger issues so vehement that they would consider violence? But then, if you ban these people. If they have no platform at all to vent, will they just go further underground? Will their fury manifest even quicker?

Not that it likely makes much difference but, at least when people express such extremist and potentially violent views here- they usually get challenged. Not that it likely does much to moderate them- if they are so passionate that they are right.

It's such a weird mix in a way. There are so many gentle, peace loving people here. Even those of us with fairly strong and unpopular views usually at least have the courtesy to try to understand a difference of opinion. I suppose we should be grateful that it is the small majority who are extremist and potentially violent.

The difficulty is- people like this and, actions like this do tend to create a sort of sickened feeling. Do we really want to associate with those who are so aggressive, arrogant and sometimes abusive? But then- it's the same deal. In part, some likely feel the way they do because they feel isolated and rejected. Yet, their manner makes them (honestly,) unpleasant to interract with. So, it's like a vicious circle. I wonder what the answer is.

I guess when they are this adament about their views and rights though- it's hard to reason with them. I saw a clip interviewing his Dad on YouTube. He insisted he had a good heart. It always puzzles me in a way. Are people really that good at hiding what they're thinking/ planning? Are there really no signs? He blammed radicalisation. I did get that sinking feeling he might have meant here but, I suspect it's Reddit or, some other site.

 

[bleeding_heart_show]

This case has caused me to become severely depressed recently, so I may as well share some of my thoughts on it.

Radical ideas attract radical people. He would have been dangerous no matter what ideology he subscribed to.

That being said, he subscribed to the ideology many of us on this site align with in one way or another.

If antinatalism is to be taken seriously it should be focused on improving quality of life for children that already exist and discouraging further births.

Perhaps I am being overly simplistic, but this is the best I can come up with for now.

 

[Griever]

I've read through his posts and read the news article about him and I don't know what to say about it because I'm just shocked

 

[betternever2havbeen]

This case has caused me to become severely depressed recently, so I may as well share some of my thoughts on it.

Radical ideas attract radical people. He would have been dangerous no matter what ideology he subscribed to.

That being said, he subscribed to the ideology many of us on this site align with in one way or another.

If antinatalism is to be taken seriously it should be focused on improving quality of life for children that already exist and discouraging further births.

Perhaps I am being overly simplistic, but this is the best I can come up with for now.

OP said a bunch of things including pro-mortalism and being an incel-they are far more likely to be the reason he did what he did than antinatalism.

 

[kotonearisato]

If they have no platform at all to vent, will they just go further underground? Will their fury manifest even quicker?

This is what's been on my mind since I saw it. One of the most dangerous things is that by not being able to speak about a topic, people generally will keep going until they find an echo chamber. And if you're already someone who has it in you to commit violent acts, that sort of echo chamber quickly turns deadly.

In theory, the best way to combat radicalized world views is genuine connection and the ability to stay calm during a debate. But most people in general don't have that level of patience, I know I certainly don't, what with the way the world is currently.

Are people really that good at hiding what they're thinking/ planning? Are there really no signs? He blammed radicalisation.

Some people are great at hiding it, but I honestly think it's less that there aren't any signs and more that those signs only become obvious in hindsight. It's so easy to assume a symptom is coming from somewhere more normal, less dangerous.

I've also been thinking a lot about, like... It's easy to point fingers and blame radicalization since it's been tossed around as a buzzword to hell and back, but I've never been sure how to feel about that concept... while I understand that under the right circumstances people can be convinced to do almost anything, would just talking to people online who agree with you push someone to do such a thing? There's so much nuance that's left out on the news and in journalism in general, which is why I'm grateful for SaSu. It's really helpful to be able to have such a frank discussion without having to tiptoe around.

 

[The Actual Devil]

I did a bit of homework on the situation and have commented a bit elsewhere.

In short, the young man struck me as having very similar in personality to Ted Kaczynski. There seemed to be some unspecified past trauma in the picture combined with a towering intelligence (particularly his talent as a chemist). The interplay of mental illness and high IQ gave rise to his fierce arrogance. He stated that only one person in the world was capable of engaging at his lofty level. That friend was a young woman who died recently, resulting in his rapid unravelling, even unto attempted murder and suicide.

He engaged in a lot of pseudo-philosophical ramblings, identifying strongly with a slew of internet labels (which I have described as cults) that seem to derive from Reddit and such places. The common theme was a genuine respect for nature (including veganism) but a total and absolute disregard for human life, both his own and others. I would describe him as radicalised inasmuch as there was no doubt in his mind that murder was justified with respect to his opinions of humanity.

My own controversial take is this: while it is relieving that this guy's violence is not condoned here, his actual beliefs are uncomfortably familiar. Every other thread on here is along the lines of 'should we eliminate all life on Earth?' or 'is all life bad?' or 'is human procreation the ultimate evil?' and on and on it goes, day and night.

In the cases that I've seen, the purportedly philosophers who claim to have figured out life are sorely lacking life experience outside of sitting in front of their computers, and angry because they are lonely. They lack the introspection to direct their anger at root causes (past abusers, illness, their own mistakes, or whatever else). Frankly, if the same people had better sex lives, their entire 'philosophy' would instantaneously dissipate. In my view, this whole doomer cult is all juvenile.

This anti-life propaganda bears no resemblance to legitimate suicide-related issues around giving suffering people a right to a dignified and peaceful death. If anything, it is directly counterproductive by portraying us as a bunch of weirdos incapable of rational engagement with the outside world. Worse, the echo chamber can be an ingredient in radicalisation, though in most cases it would merely accelerate a young person's inclination towards suicide, as opposed to acting out violently towards others as happened in this case.

I don't think anything will change since the purportedly philosophical stance seems to be supported by the site's admin at the highest level. So, just like the philosophers, I am 'just venting'.

​

It's honestly jarring how many fringe philosophies are voiced here. I know that's ironic considering my profile, but I am not aligned with any sort of pro-death rhetoric. I lean more towards nihilism and absurdism while following my internal moral compass for day-to-day interactions. So, I suppose I figured I'd find more nihilists on here, looking to CTB because "nothing matters." Perhaps they are in the silent majority, though, because if you've fully embraced that nothing matters, then why even bother saying it?
I guess I'm just a fake fan of Oblivion—after all, I haven't even picked up the remake yet. ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯

In all seriousness, I reject the extreme idea that life is sacred just as much as I reject the idea that life is profane (the closest antonym of 'sacred' I could find). I could never condemn anyone for following the biological imperative of reproduction, as many of us are rushed into adulthood without the boon of having enough time to ponder heady philosophical considerations. I know I didn't have much time to analyze the morality of procreation or even where my damned taxes were going because a schedule of 8-hour school days followed by 8 hours of homework each night immediately chased by a new life of 60+ hour workweeks leaves little room for personal growth. And I'm only exaggerating a little.

All of these "normies" that so many people condemn forget that they are the result of the system itself: keeping people too busy to second-guess anything at all. I know many here sympathize with them as I do, but far too many are too chronically online to understand how complicated a life in the fast lane can get. Instead, they see normies the way bystanders are treated in The Matrix: acceptable casualties, or even that it is some perverted kindness to pry them from their oh-so ignorantly immoral little lives. If only they were as intelligent and educated as I am, looking down upon them from on high. Ironic, since such people think that's how normies see them, while in reality, they're just thinking of what sounds good for dinner, not thinking ill of others if at all.

But ignorance of my superior morality is no excuse! You know who you sound like, right? The system. The government: ignorance of the law is no excuse. How does it feel to look in the mirror and see the Capitol Building? Does it make you... stone-faced?

Well, the Devil has a different perspective, and from here, I don't look down: I look up.
And I can safely say that Scotsmen don't wear anything under their kilts.​

---

PS Who was in that terrorist's DMs? Did anyone know what he was up to? And if they are still active here, why are they allowed? Are there more terrorists here? I obviously can't make any claims or accusations regarding what I can't see, I'm just obsessively pulling at a loose thread that's bothering me.​

Spoiler: This is just an example that people where in his DMs, not an accusation of hidden knowlege