Discussion Is anyone here a flat earther?

[Suicide_vampire]

 

[Epsilon0]

All models are approximations. Gravity has been improved upon since Newton's time, but Newton's maths are simpler to use even though they don't account for 43 arcseconds per century with regards to Mercury.

Don't toss out the baby with the bathwater.

Newtonian gravity is not simplier, it just does not take inte considerration the observer and the effects of massive objects or speeds close to the speed of light.

Here's what that means:

A) the importance of the observer

Newton has a god's eyeview of the world. His physics is based on the assumption that a meter is a meter and a second is a second, anywhere in the universe.

Einstein said: no, a meter is a meter only if two or more observers move at the same speed relative to each other while they make their measurements.


B) Speed and mass

Newtonian physics works if you live in a low-gravity, slow moving world - as we do on Earth.

The moment you leave our Earth, newtonian physics collapses, and you need Einstein's theory of relativity, which describes how matter behaves when moving close to the speed of light, and how mass affects space.

 

[ctbUniquectb]

your post

You're wrong in that special relativity works on Earth as well since we've measured the Lorentz transform down to very low (all things considered) speeds, and without it, none of this would make sense.
That being said, the rest of your post stands on merit, and I think we're making the same point.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

You know what I like about flat Earth is to watch all those people heralding scepticism and free thought spout their dogmatic ideology of scientism. I might not believe the earth to be flat but I admire people who go out there on an actual expedition to see whether they can reach the end end of the world in Antarctica.

 

[Epsilon0]

You're wrong in that special relativity works on Earth as well since we've measured the Lorentz transform down to very low (all things considered) speeds, and without it, none of this would make sense.
That being said, the rest of your post stands on merit, and I think we're making the same point.

I am not saying that relativity does not work on Earth. The Earth's mass curves space-time as we speak and pulls me towards its center.

I just mean that Newtonian physics describes one special scenario: very low gravity and very low speeds.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Newtonian gravity is not simplier, it just does not take inte considerration the observer and the effects of massive objects or speeds close to the speed of light.

Here's what that means:

A) the importance of the observer

Newton has a god's eyeview of the world. His physics is based on the assumption that a meter is a meter and a second is a second, anywhere in the universe.

Einstein said: no, a meter is a meter only if two or more observers move at the same speed relative to each other while they make their measurements.


B) Speed and mass

Newtonian physics works if you live in a low-gravity, slow moving world - as we do on Earth.

The moment you leave our Earth, newtonian physics collapses, and you need Einstein's theory of relativity, which describes how matter behaves when moving close to the speed of light, and how mass affects space.

That's what I'm reading about. Or at least I was. Time to try and sleep.

 

[ctbUniquectb]

You know what I like about flat Earth is to watch all those people heralding scepticism and free thought spout their dogmatic ideology of scientism. I might not believe the earth to be flat but I admire people who go out there on an actual expedition to see whether they can reach the end end of the world in Antarctica.

I forget who said it, but that's the shitty thing about flat earthers, and a lot of other conspiracy theorists: they wind up knowing too damned much about science, to think the earth is flat! (or what have you)

I am not saying that relativity does not work on Earth. The Earth's mass curves space-time as we speak and pulls me towards its center.

I just mean that Newtonian physics describes one special scenario: very low gravity and very low speeds.

Yes, because it's not relativistic. I should have been speaking more clearly from the get go, and that's why I came out an said special, not general, relativity in my last post.

We're cool. For reference, I actually once, alone and accidentally, did the "my boy is wicked smart" scene from Good Will Hunting on a lunar landing conspiracy theorist. Not for any reason besides this shit gets under my skin. My only reward was another drunk guy muttering "fucking A," once I'd made my point.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

You're laughing about them now but one day you'll be grateful for those people, because you will be bunjee jumping from the edge of the earth and because we will finally have solved the nuclear waste problem: well just throw it over the edge into space.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

You're laughing about them now but one day you'll be grateful for those people, because you will be bunjee jumping from the edge of the earth and because we will finally have solved the nuclear waste problem: well just throw it over the edge into space.

And it will cover all the endless turtles in radioactive sludge.

 

[Epsilon0]

I forget who said it, but that's the shitty thing about flat earthers, and a lot of other conspiracy theorists: they wind up knowing too damned much about science, to think the earth is flat! (or what have you)

Are you saying that the best way to know more is to know less?

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Turtles have a pretty long half life they will be fine

 

[Epsilon0]

And it will cover all the endless turtles in radioactive sludge.

Hey! Leave 'em turtles out of this conversation. What did they ever do to you?

(I'm off to bed as well. The Earth and heavens can wait.)

 

[a.n.kirillov]

See that's what I mean. People just repeat dogma and ideology, same as with 9/11. The term 'Conspiracy theory' has been deliberately reframed to mean something people who smoke too much pot come up with when they get paranoid. All the while conspiracies are a very real thing of course, just read a history of the CIA or actually just read any history book you randomly pick out from the library. I seriously mean it when I say I admire these people who try to find the edge of the flat Earth in antarctica; because they seriously doubt the accepted theories and thus it seems only reasonable that they go out and test their own hypothesis. They have an inquisitive spirit which is closer to the original values of science than dogmatic repetition of what people tell you in school or on TV (and that's as deep as most people's knowledge is about physics. Most people won't be able to prove to you in any way the earth is round, they'll just appeal to authority).

 

[one4all]

So i can CTB by walking off the edge of Earth?

 

[a.n.kirillov]

So i can CTB by walking off the edge of Earth?

Don't even know what's supposed to happen? Ignoring for a second the very real possibility of turtles eating you, would you just fall until you starve to death?

 

[one4all]

Don't even know what's supposed to happen? Ignoring for a second the very real possibility of turtles eating you, would you just fall until you starve to death?

I would imagine the atmosphere would do me in. Can't really say what layer it would be, since i've never researched the layers of atmosphere with a flat earth. Worst comes to worst ... HELL i don't know. Damn ninja turtles are back!

 

[Dead beat dad]

It gives me chills.

The Earth is not flat.
We live in the age of the self declared expert.
Can't be proved wrong because its all a government conspiracy.
2 disappointments here:
1) People's lives are missing something or they cannot access science they have to turn to flat earthers and the like.
2) There really are conspiracies out there that can hide in plain sight because of this shit.

DBD

 

[Epsilon0]

See that's what I mean. People just repeat dogma and ideology, same as with 9/11. The term 'Conspiracy theory' has been deliberately reframed to mean something people who smoke too much pot come up with when they get paranoid. All the while conspiracies are a very real thing of course, just read a history of the CIA or actually just read any history book you randomly pick out from the library. I seriously mean it when I say I admire these people who try to find the edge of the flat Earth in antarctica; because they seriously doubt the accepted theories and thus it seems only reasonable that they go out and test their own hypothesis. They have an inquisitive spirit which is closer to the original values of science than dogmatic repetition of what people tell you in school or on TV (and that's as deep as most people's knowledge is about physics. Most people won't be able to prove to you in any way the earth is round, they'll just appeal to authority).

Proving the earth is round is not that difficult, the Ancient Greeks did it with nothing but a stick. One of them (I forgot his name, smth with E), got the idea to put the stick in the ground at noon in two different cities and look at the shadow they cast. He discovered that the closer you are to the equator, the smaller the shadow, the farther, the longer. Hence, the idea that the Earth must be a sphere.

But that's beside the point. I understand that you mean and agree with you. Authority is dead, appealing to traditions to explain the world is a thing of the past.

And yet, I do not see conspiracy in science, so I am not sure I follow your argument. To me, what some agency does overtly or covertly, cannot be compared to how scientific advancements are made.

You give the CIA as an example. Well, my answer to that is that I see noone peer-reviewing CIA-operations, but in the field of physics, if you come up with any theory that might indicate a paradigm shift, you will have an army of researchers trying to duplicate your experiments and prove you wrong. The scientific community is not a cloak and dagger organization, such as the CIA.

 

[Oyoy]

The Earth is not flat.
We live in the age of the self declared expert.
Can't be proved wrong because its all a government conspiracy.
2 disappointments here:
1) People's lives are missing something or they cannot access science they have to turn to flat earthers and the like.
2) There really are conspiracies out there that can hide in plain sight because of this shit.

DBD

It gives me chills because its such a waist of time and because people get so offended by queston

Look at the image of the UN logo, then compare it to live flight tracker
View attachment 27458
See the distance between Australia and South America its huge.
Then look at a globe its no where its not as far, but if you are flying from Australia to South America you always stop over in North America.
View attachment 27459
Ahhh the plot thickens!

What is below us?

 

[ctbUniquectb]

The term 'Conspiracy theory' has been deliberately reframed to mean something people who smoke too much pot come up with when they get paranoid. All the while conspiracies are a very real thing of course

conspiracy != conspiracy theory

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Conspiracy hypothesis. @Dead beat dad is right, it's just a power tactic to associate doubting of the official narratives of institutions and so on or simply any talking about real conspiracies with lunatics and woo woo. You can then equivocate flat Earthers with people who doubt the official narrative of, for example, sadam Hussein having weapons of mass destruction, etc etc, basically anyone trying to expose real lies of powerful individuals or groups who are abusing their power, yes also 9/11. Also on a more literal level simply a method of distraction

 

[colcol]

everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything whether others agree or not but my personal opinion is that i need much more evidence to even think it could be a thing at all .
i do believe in ufos etc but flat earth ??? noooooo

 

[Oyoy]

 

[kkatt]

The science is there to prove it (watch beyond the curve on netflix) plus you only believe that it's a ball floating in space because you were told it, have you seen it with your own eyes. Also check out the UN logo, it's a major clue!!!

Just a thought, but a Netflix documentary is definitely not science.

 

[omoidarui]

if the Earth is flat how come you can fly off one "end" and then be on the opposite side

 

[Kumachan]

if im not mistaken, Tolkien's Middle Earth was created flat originally, and afterwards turned into a sphere by Gods, to make it impossible to escape from(?). At the time of the events of "LoR" its already round, but something of its "flat" past remained - specially designed elven ships that carried Frodo and the others to the West would not disappear over the horizon as a normal ship would - as if Middle Earth was still flat... Tolkien surely was onto something(being a high rank mason)

 

[Didymus]

"If the earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off of it by now."

 

[Etherealdignity333]

I know astronauts personally. Like, people who have been to space. The flat earth theory is absurd.

 

[Despondent]

The earth is round PERIODT

 

[artificialpasta]

There are people here comparing coronavirus to the flu. So I wouldn't be surprised.