Discussion Interesting study shows that a large portion of men who kill themselves have no history of mental illness

[Aloneandinpain]

There's a theory that men have a more "winner takes all" deal in life.

That successful men are the most privileged in society, but "loser" men are at the bottom rung and are largely undesired by anyone. And this is the area that are susceptible to suicide, not because of mental health disorders per se, but an objective evaluation that their life sucks.

All just a theory and generalisation of course. I wouldn't ever wish to suggest that either gender isn't capable of experiencing a terrible quality of life, from mental health disorders or otherwise.

This is mostly correct, there definitely an invisible safety net there for women which stops most reaching the depths of despair and hardship the men at the very bottom suffer.

While men do indeed suffer from mental illnesses, your typical case of male depression is reactive in nature. In other words they suffer some terrible hardship or injustice in their life (or multiple such hardships), they don't really see a way out of their situation, and their depression and eventual suicidal is simply a quite logical and natural reaction to this.

The particularly messed up thing about anti-suicide charities is that they issue guidelines that no one or media outlet should ever report or hint at a suicide being linked to life events and being explainable and logical.

The charities just want to push mental illness and typical female suicide cases as the default because that's kind of easier for society to handle.

The fact that we treat many men like complete crap, and the state actively makes their lives worse, and they're dying directly as a result of the way they're treated isn't something anyone wants to acknowledge. Instead we have to essentially erase the typical male suicide victim and push mental illness or even victim blame the bullshit line of men "not seeking help".

 

[Abyssal]

Shocking that people without treatment are less likely to be treated and die.

It's pretty clear this is the result of a lack of information and the societal factors contributing to what it means to "be a man" that are more harmful than not.

The world is imperfect and has much room for improvement, this is the evidence

 

[Leiot]

It seems like mental illness is the new catch-all explanation for everything bad. Someone kills themselves - must be mental illness. Someone shoots a bunch of people - mental illness. But do they ever define mental illness? There are certain conditions that they call mental illness, like depression, bipolar, schzhrophenia, etc., but I've never seen a definition of mental illness itself.

I think they use that term to describe thinking they don't like. We can't have people who question their very existence! There must be something wrong with them. Sometimes there is. But philosophers have posted these questions for centuries.

The problem we have now is the amount of bullshit we have access to. I'm sure we've all seen so-called 'Experts' that couldn't find their asses with both hands and a flashlight. If people would just listen without judgement imagine how nice that would be. To know theres at least one person that shows a little compassion without judging us.

 

[heatdeath]

- Pay for everything

- Be a man, deal with it

- Pay for everything

- Don't be emotional or else you're a bitch

- Pay for everything

- Do all the work in a relationship because of outdated expectations that some people cling to like crazy

- Pay for everything

- Be strong, confident, decisive, and omniscient in every situation ever

- Pay for everything

We don't need a mental illness to be suicidal, life itself is more than enough justification.

 

[Aloneandinpain]

- Pay for everything

- Be a man, deal with it

- Pay for everything

- Don't be emotional or else you're a bitch

- Pay for everything

- Do all the work in a relationship because of outdated expectations that some people cling to like crazy

- Pay for everything

- Be strong, confident, decisive, and omniscient in every situation ever

- Pay for everything

We don't need a mental illness to be suicidal, life itself is more than enough justification.

- Everything is always your fault

- Be a mind reader

- Don't do that do this, also no don't do this do that

 

[heatdeath]

Bro, I love you. Sorry, I'm very drunk.

 

[BlazingBob]

Men are disposable. They have no inherent value and don't deserve love unless they have something to offer, usually money and power. Society has no use for men who are poor, sick, disabled, etc. Men are cannon fodder in wars. Men make up the vast majority of the homeless. Unless you're successful nobody gives a shit. I've seen women break down and cry in the workplace and people line up to console them. If a man does that he's called a pussy, ostracized, laughed at or even fired. I wish things were different.

 

[needthebus]

If you get a mental health diagnosis, you become a second-class citizen in many countries with fewer rights.

In the US, for example, any mental health diagnosis, even for major depressive disorder, makes it illegal for you to hunt for food using a gun.

Many men don't want to be second class citizens and realize that mental health "treatments" are just a form of resource extraction by exploitative practitioners and pharmacy companies. Billions were made on SSRIs that work almost the same as a placebo and many men see through the bullshit.

In order to be "mentally ill" you have to have a diagnosis, and many men are too smart to set foot into a psychiatrist's office or discuss mental health with their doctor out of justified fear of being classified differently by society. Men are reluctant to step into the mental health quicksand trap, with ever escalating doses of bizarre psychiatric drugs that eventually ensnare someone into dependency and demands from others for continued usage and payment, much like a gang extorting business for protection payments, except it's legal and the ruse has been integrated into society.

For conservative men especially, who are not interested in being relegated to the caste of non-gun owners or criminals indefinitely, mental health treatments are a no-go.

Society is also awful and there are valid reasons to want to die. In the US, homeless people can be arrested for sleeping without housing, and the compassionate local officials also allow businesses to place spikes on the ground to prevent sleeping, then go to church on Sunday and pretend to care about jesus and compassion. They can do this easily because there is no cognitive dissonance, the corruption is second-nature and the hypocrisy is meaningless to their ilk.

Suicide due to economic problems is a real thing that society tacitly encourages because they prioritize greed and efficiency over reducing suffering. With no safety net if you are completely financially screwed, a person can make a rational calculation that the suffering from immediate death will be less than the ongoing suffering caused by existing in a world of corrupt government policies and limited freedom.

Because governments make the stupid decision to link mental health status with rights, and also have limited safety nets that are hard to access, many men see suicide as a rational calculation. The world doesn't have to be this terrible, but awful governments have made it this way, and because the richest in society control the political apparatus by controlling a large part of the poor and stupid through religion, there's never going to be change, just more and more productivity until everyone dies from environmental destruction.

 

[Davey36000]

No offense but this study and many other statistics is/are garbage.

You think a person who commits suicide is happy? Obviously not, most likely depressed.

And there are many depressed people out there but they do not seek "treatment" because lack of time or money.

 

[Aloneandinpain]

You think a person who commits suicide is happy? Obviously not, most likely depressed.

There are different causes and types of depression though, and the typical male suicide is as a result of reactive depression. In other words it is directly related to life events such as discrimination, mistreatment, unemployment, poverty, homelessness, loneliness, violence etc

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Do all the work in a relationship because of outdated expectations that some people cling to like crazy

Tbh, I would argue that this would apply more to women than to men. Women are typically expected to main ones responsible for taking care of the kids, doing all of the housework, and cooking, along with bearing the brunt when it comes to acting as emotional support for their partner and even being expected to always be willing to have sex with them whenever they want. Men are typically only responsible for providing an income in most traditional relationships. To add insult to injury, a lot of women nowadays have to do all of this along with providing too. There are even cases of there being "traditional" households where it's the woman who is actually the main provider, such as in the infamous case of Jen Affleck, whose job as a mommy influencer what pays for her, her husband's, and their children's lifestyle. She was the one financially supporting him while he was still in university, yet he is the one who gets to call all the shots in the relationship and is given all of the power just because of his gender.

I'm not saying this as some sort of "gender suffering olympics" type spiel. Rather, I'm mentioning this because I honestly have mostly seen the opposite of this claim and I've even seen a growing number of men calling this out. I feel like men do have a lot of issues that specifically affect them, however, I question if this is really a good example of one of them.

 

[ThatStateOfMind]

No offense but this study and many other statistics is/are garbage.

You think a person who commits suicide is happy? Obviously not, most likely depressed.

And there are many depressed people out there but they do not seek "treatment" because lack of time or money.

None taken, I just found the statistic interesting and wanted to share it. I don't think a person who commits suicide is happy. I think it's interesting that most men who commit suicide haven't sought out help.

I understand some can't afford the time but surely in that large percentage who have no history, there has to be some that had the means.

Tbh, I would argue that this would apply more to women than to men. Women are typically expected to main ones responsible for taking care of the kids, doing all of the housework, and cooking, along with bearing the brunt when it comes to acting as emotional support for their partner and even being expected to always be willing to have sex with them whenever they want. Men are typically only responsible for providing an income in most traditional relationships. To add insult to injury, a lot of women nowadays have to do all of this along with providing too. There are even cases of there being "traditional" households where it's the woman who is actually the main provider, such as in the infamous case of Jen Affleck, whose job as a mommy influencer what pays for her, her husband's, and their children's lifestyle. She was the one financially supporting him while he was still in university, yet he is the one who gets to call all the shots in the relationship and is given all of the power just because of his gender.

I'm not saying this as some sort of "gender suffering olympics" type spiel. Rather, I'm mentioning this because I honestly have mostly seen the opposite of this claim and I've even seen a growing number of men calling this out. I feel like men do have a lot of issues that specifically affect them, however, I question if this is really a good example of one of them.

Always love reading your detailed posts. The gender roles in relationships are still ever present even though they shouldn't be, especially as both partners are usually employed nowadays so since both are contributing 50/50, household chores should be split the same way.

I also saw someone online saying something along the lines of "Women shouldn't be able to say no to their husband, I don't care if you're not in the mood, that's what love is." I was honestly disgusted by that because I am often "not in the mood" as a man, and I would be appalled if my partner told me that.

Never heard of Jen Affleck, but it sounds like a shitty arrangement.

I will say though, both genders from unrealistic expectations at times. As much as I wish gender roles would fade away, I don't think that will happen in my lifetime.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Always love reading your detailed posts. The gender roles in relationships are still ever present even though they shouldn't be, especially as both partners are usually employed nowadays so since both are contributing 50/50, household chores should be split the same way.

I also saw someone online saying something along the lines of "Women shouldn't be able to say no to their husband, I don't care if you're not in the mood, that's what love is." I was honestly disgusted by that because I am often "not in the mood" as a man, and I would be appalled if my partner told me that.

Never heard of Jen Affleck, but it sounds like a shitty arrangement.

I will say though, both genders from unrealistic expectations at times. As much as I wish gender roles would fade away, I don't think that will happen in my lifetime.

Jen Affleck was is an influencer who most people know from The Screte Lives of Mormon Wives. It's this reality show produced by Hulu that follows around the members of "Momtok". Jen Affleck is a member of MomTok and the money she made from it is what went to their household. Her husband, Zac, is a lot older than her and had only just graduated BYU at the time. Despite her being the main breadwinner he is still treated as head of the household. He forced her to move away from Utah with him, despite her mentioning that all of the other MomTok influencers live in Utah and that she needs to be there for her work. He also blew up at her over the phone for going to some male strip club thing, despite it having been a surprise and her not even partaking in any of the activities going on there. She ended up having to travel from Las Vegas back to Utah because of the whole ordeal.

The entire show is just a mess, tbh. You watch all of the episodes on Dailymotion if you don't have a Hulu account. It's especially interesting to hear what ex-Mormons have to say about it, too.

 

[Leiot]

I think a SS dating app would be great. (althought I'm kinda past that ) At least everyone on it would be genuine about their feelings and know what it's like to want to be heard.

 

[Davey36000]

None taken, I just found the statistic interesting and wanted to share it. I don't think a person who commits suicide is happy. I think it's interesting that most men who commit suicide haven't sought out help.

I understand some can't afford the time but surely in that large percentage who have no history, there has to be some that had the means.

Always love reading your detailed posts. The gender roles in relationships are still ever present even though they shouldn't be, especially as both partners are usually employed nowadays so since both are contributing 50/50, household chores should be split the same way.

I also saw someone online saying something along the lines of "Women shouldn't be able to say no to their husband, I don't care if you're not in the mood, that's what love is." I was honestly disgusted by that because I am often "not in the mood" as a man, and I would be appalled if my partner told me that.

Never heard of Jen Affleck, but it sounds like a shitty arrangement.

I will say though, both genders from unrealistic expectations at times. As much as I wish gender roles would fade away, I don't think that will happen in my lifetime.

Yo I apolagize for the tone of the post, anyway, there is one more important fact: to be diagnosed with a mental illness people have to seek a psychiatrist or a psychologist or maybe even a therapist, and many people will just kill themselves without doing that; and for other reasons other than lack of money or time.

For example: they could just be very proud and don't want to go to a professional, or they just don't believe it can work, or maybe they know where it will likely lead (taking pills and some people don't like that), as well many other possible reasons.

But it is true that there are many people who are unhappy and are not in the statistics. And when a person is severely unhappy we say this person is depressed and some commit suicide because of it.

 

[ThatStateOfMind]

Jen Affleck was is an influencer who most people know from The Screte Lives of Mormon Wives. It's this reality show produced by Hulu that follows around the members of "Momtok". Jen Affleck is a member of MomTok and the money she made from it is what went to their household. Her husband, Zac, is a lot older than her and had only just graduated BYU at the time. Despite her being the main breadwinner he is still treated as head of the household. He forced her to move away from Utah with him, despite her mentioning that all of the other MomTok influencers live in Utah and that she needs to be there for her work. He also blew up at her over the phone for going to some male strip club thing, despite it having been a surprise and her not even partaking in any of the activities going on there. She ended up having to travel from Las Vegas back to Utah because of the whole ordeal.

The entire show is just a mess, tbh. You watch all of the episodes on Dailymotion if you don't have a Hulu account. It's especially interesting to hear what ex-Mormons have to say about it, too.

Wow, that's pretty neat. I might watch it, not sure though as I don't know if it would be something I enjoy watching. I can't imagine moving just for a person who wants it just because "other influencers do it." Sucks that she had to travel all the way back and she got blown up at.

I think a SS dating app would be great. (althought I'm kinda past that ) At least everyone on it would be genuine about their feelings and know what it's like to want to be heard.

I don't know if it would be a great idea lol. All jokes aside though, I can appreciate how open people are here.

Yo I apolagize for the tone of the post, anyway, there is one more important fact: to be diagnosed with a mental illness people have to seek a psychiatrist or a psychologist or maybe even a therapist, and many people will just kill themselves without doing that; and for other reasons other than lack of money or time.

For example: they could just be very proud and don't want to go to a professional, or they just don't believe it can work, or maybe they know where it will likely lead (taking pills and some people don't like that), as well many other possible reasons.

But it is true that there are many people who are unhappy and are not in the statistics. And when a person is severely unhappy we say this person is depressed and some commit suicide because of it.

Nah it's alright, I understand where it's coming from. And ah, I understand your point a little better. I do understand though, that for some, therapy/psychiatry is prohibitively expensive.

I know my family doesn't really believe in mental illness, whatever that means. I feel like the Sopranos touches on the aspect of pride and fear of mental health aid.

 

[M19R]

Its not even that we dont have mental health issues, it's that we're not allowed to. Nobody gets diagnosed because we're expected to just deal with it. Im trans, i saw the shift. As soon as i transitioned i was expected to be better. It was okay back then (about 10 years ago) because it very genuinely did make things better, but things didn't stay that way. All the support i got before was mostly gone. Hospitalization started being used as a threat for not getting my shit together, a punishment, instead of as people trying to help.

 

[Aloneandinpain]

Y

Men are disposable. They have no inherent value and don't deserve love unless they have something to offer, usually money and power. Society has no use for men who are poor, sick, disabled, etc. Men are cannon fodder in wars. Men make up the vast majority of the homeless. Unless you're successful nobody gives a shit. I've seen women break down and cry in the workplace and people line up to console them. If a man does that he's called a pussy, ostracized, laughed at or even fired. I wish things were different.

Yes, male disposability is the root cause of the issues men face. And of course if we're disposable then obviously male victims of suicide don't really matter (unless they're the type of high value men you list).