Discussion Inspired by another thread. What are some things you'd like to do/experience?

[pulsar]

It;s called the placebo effect. It's like religion. People desperately want to believe it works so what do you know, it does.

I'm not saying psilocybin isn't helpful either. i'm just saying meds have saved lives

So has alcohol, weed, and a lot of other drugs, that isn't the poison big pharma feeds you.
So a little research into how many drug trials that showed little to no effectiveness big pharma suppressed during the ssri prozac boom of the 90s. Profits over people.

It;s called the placebo effect. It's like religion. People desperately want to believe it works so what do you know, it does.

So has alcohol, weed, and a lot of other drugs, that isn't the poison big pharma feeds you.
So a little research into how many drug trials that showed little to no effectiveness big pharma suppressed during the ssri prozac boom of the 90s. Profits over people.

Do a little research that is.

 

[guayabas]

A double-blind study of bupropion and placebo in depression - PubMed

Bupropion HCl, a new nontricyclic antidepressant, produced marked improvement in 49 hospitalized patients with primary depression at doses of 300-600 mg/day. Bupropion resulted in statistically significant differences from placebo as early as day 5, and by the end of the 4-week study 79% (N =...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

79% improvement from wellbutrin vs 13% for the placebo

 

[pulsar]

Depression being caused by a chemical imbalance is a myth, perpetuated by big pharma to make a ron of money. You won't find one shred of hard scientific evidence and/or research that shows depression is caused by a chemical imbalance of serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, whatever, myth makes them money.

 

[guayabas]

yes, I already agreed with that statement. that doesn't mean the medication doesn't work or is a placebo. it just means it doesn't correct a "chemical imbalance" but it still treats depression, they just don't understand how yet

 

[pulsar]

yes, I already agreed with that statement. that doesn't mean the medication doesn't work or is a placebo. it just means it doesn't correct a "chemical imbalance" but it still treats depression, they just don't understand how yet

If it is not a chemical imbalance obviously introducing a chemical to mess up your brain chemistry wouldn't improve anything. People show improvement because they want to believe they will get better. I bet they used subjective questionnaires to ask people if they felt better. If they believe they will feel better, of course they will most likely report that they do feel better.
Psychiatry has harmed far more people than it has "helped"

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

Depression being caused by a chemical imbalance is a myth, perpetuated by big pharma

Nope. The thing is that depression is not one condition. It's like cancer, in the sense that cancer is not one disease but an umbrella term for a wide variety of diseases that share some common traits. There are some types of depression that are related to chemical imbalances. SSRIs and other meds are effective for those. Taking some pills for depression can help some people, if their problem happens to be biochemical. But not every case of depression is biochemical, so not everyone will benefit from taking medication. The placebo effect has a non-negligible effect, of course, so even people whose depression is not biochemical can get some benefit out of taking meds in certain circumstances. That doesn't mean that depression meds are only effective because of the placebo effect.

 

[pulsar]

Nope. The thing is that depression is not one condition. It's like cancer, in the sense that cancer is not one disease but an umbrella term for a wide variety of diseases that share some common traits. There are some types of depression that are related to chemical imbalances. SSRIs and other meds are effective for those. Taking some pills for depression can help some people, if their problem happens to be biochemical. But not every case of depression is biochemical, so not everyone will benefit from taking medication. The placebo effect has a non-negligible effect, of course, so even people whose depression is not biochemical can get some benefit out of taking meds in certain circumstances. That doesn't mean that depression meds are only effective because of the placebo effect.

Evidence? Feel free to show me any scientific study which definitively shows that a chemical imnalance has anything to do with depression whatsoever.

Evidence? Feel free to show me any scientific study which definitively shows that a chemical imnalance has anything to do with depression whatsoever.

Here's some of mine for starters. https://neurosciencenews.com/depression-chemical-imballance-21105/, what do neuroscientists know though, I guess.

 

[guayabas]

79% vs 13% is a HUGE difference. The link you posted only specifies 3 different antidepressants. You're making broad statements, throwing out all antidepressants based on info about 3. The article also specifies that those 3 antidepressants worked better than a placebo for patients with severe cases of depression. you're picking and choosing info as a form of confirmation bias

anyways, i've said what I said, I don't want to jack this person's thread anymore. they wanted this to be a positive place for ppl to talk about things they want to enjoy or accomplish

 

[pulsar]

Evidence? Feel free to show me any scientific study which definitively shows that a chemical imnalance has anything to do with depression whatsoever.

Here's some of mine for starters. https://neurosciencenews.com/depression-chemical-imballance-21105/, what do neuroscientists know though, I guess.

"Although first proposed in the 1960s, the serotonin theory of depression started to be widely promoted by the pharmaceutical industry in the 1990s in association with its efforts to market a new range of antidepressants, known as selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors or SSRIs." In other words big pharma in our capitalist society say dollar signs so they made the evidence fit their hypothesis to push their agenda and make a ton of money.

"Although first proposed in the 1960s, the serotonin theory of depression started to be widely promoted by the pharmaceutical industry in the 1990s in association with its efforts to market a new range of antidepressants, known as selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors or SSRIs." In other words big pharma in our capitalist society say dollar signs so they made the evidence fit their hypothesis to push their agenda and make a ton of money.

Confirmation bias? That a scientific article. If you want to believe your antodepressant helps you and this threatens you in some way well I can't help that. but the face of the matter is I was responding to someone else not you about weed, not antidepressants. Yet you felt compelled to go on and on about something I really could care less about. I know what I've read. I know what the research shows. That isn't my opinion it's scientific fact.

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

Evidence? Feel free to show me any scientific study which definitively shows that a chemical imnalance has anything to do with depression whatsoever.

If you're looking for a study that "definitively shows" anything, you're going to be waiting a while. But here's a study on the efficacy of SSRIs compared to placebo to treat severe depression: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10362442/

Is it conclusive? Of course not. I won't dispute that pharmacological research is tainted by perverse capital incentives, and pharmaceutical companies will absolutely do whatever they can to sell whatever new drug they've come up with. I also won't deny that the effectiveness of antidepressants in general is a contentious issue, and you can find studies both in favour and against antidepressants.

All I'm saying is that depression is way more complex than we think, with a lot of biochemical, genetic, environmental, and other weird factors involved. Discarding biochemical solutions for certain types of depression because "Big Pharma" is not going to help anyone.

 

[pulsar]

You linked one clinical trial. Theres tons of others showing drug companies suppressed clinical trials showing that antidepressants weren't statistically effective anymore than a placebo. That not my opinion that is published scientific studies. Whether they wok or not matters very little to me. They didn't work for me and I live my life, no one elses. Do what you want think what you want it doesn't affect the evidence.
Medication will probably harm more people who try them then it helps. They ised to claim there was no withdrawal syndrome to antidepressants. yeah right. Also several have been linked to suicides, some pulled off the market for fatal side effects, like Serzone. Again, none of this affects me personally at all. It's just information, people will do what they choose.

If you're looking for a study that "definitively shows" anything, you're going to be waiting a while. But here's a study on the efficacy of SSRIs compared to placebo to treat severe depression: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10362442/

Is it conclusive? Of course not. I won't dispute that pharmacological research is tainted by perverse capital incentives, and pharmaceutical companies will absolutely do whatever they can to sell whatever new drug they've come up with. I also won't deny that the effectiveness of antidepressants in general is a contentious issue, and you can find studies both in favour and against antidepressants.

All I'm saying is that depression is way more complex than we think, with a lot of biochemical, genetic, environmental, and other weird factors involved. Discarding biochemical solutions for certain types of depression because "Big Pharma" is not going to help anyone.

Will this help anyone? https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319462

 

[guayabas]

I never said anyone had to take antidepressants or that they worked for everyone. I was very careful about that bc I respect ppls choices to do what they want with their body. I just want them to have the right information before ruling something out that could be incredibly helpful and accessible to them. You're the one making sweeping generalizations about all antidepressants being "bullshit" and a placebo based on your personal experience. I respect that they didn't work for you, I'm sorry they didn't bc depression isn't something I wish on anyone. I hope you're able to access some psilocybin or find something else that's helpful for you

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

You linked one clinical trial. Theres tons of others showing drug companies suppressed clinical trials showing that antidepressants weren't statistically effective anymore than a placebo. That not my opinion that is published scientific studies. Whether they wok or not matters very little to me. They didn't work for me and I live my life, no one elses. Do what you want think what you want it doesn't affect the evidence.
Medication will probably harm more people who try them then it helps. They ised to claim there was no withdrawal syndrome to antidepressants. yeah right. Also several have been linked to suicides, some pulled off the market for fatal side effects, like Serzone. Again, none of this affects me personally at all. It's just information, people will do what they choose.

That's exactly the problem here. You ask for a study, so I link to one. You say it doesn't count because there are others with different findings, and it doesn't match your personal experience. Antidepressants don't work for you, so that's "evidence" that they simply don't work. You're extrapolating from your experience and, mixed in with a healthy dose of Big Pharma hate (which is absolutely deserved), you confidently proclaim that you're still correct.

I have no skin in this game, really. I don't get paid by Big Pharma, and I gain nothing by trying to deny your own experience. I just think that wholesale rejection of certain types of treatment because they didn't work for you is not the best way to go about it. Research into the causes of depression, biochemical or otherwise, is still in its infancy in most regards. I'll agree that SSRIs and similar meds have been overprescribed, but I don't agree with the conclusion that they're 100% bullshit and a Big Pharma scam.

 

[pulsar]

Wow, you linked one non definitive study which by your admission proves no scientific link between depression and a chemical imbalance. If you don't care then what does my opinion matter? I said antidepressants are bs perpetuated by nig pharma to make money. You have mostly agreed with what I said. It's my opinion, my opinion is also supported by a lot of scientific research and personal experience, but I could care less, I could care less about antidepressants, I could care less if people take them and give big pharma their money, that would be their problem not mine. First of all I was talking to neither of you. Second of all my point and the larger most important issue I was responding to is the insanity if the drug policy in this country. Where drugs that could be beneficial are banned because they are pushed by big pharma and their is no money to be made by drug and insurance companies. Where other more harmful drugs are deemed okay and legal in this society although they cause much more harm and death, through the phama industry. Im done responding. The evidence is what it is. My opinion is what it is. You don't have to like it, or agree with it. Frankly my dears I don't give a damn.
All this jibber jabber over something which has almost nothing to do with my point about the drug policy in this country in the first place.

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

Wow, you linked one non definitive study which by your admission proves no scientific link between depression and a chemical imbalance. If you don't care then what does my opinion matter? I said antidepressants are bs perpetuated by nig pharma to make money. You have mostly agreed with what I said. It's my opinion, my opinion is also supported by a lot of scientific research and personal experience, but I could care less, I could care less about antidepressants, I could care less if people take them and give big pharma their money, that would be their problem not mine. First of all I was talking to neither of you. Second of all my point and the larger most important issue I was responding to is the insanity if the drug policy in this country. Where drugs that could be beneficial are banned because they are pushed by big pharma and their is no money to be made by drug and insurance companies. Where other more harmful drugs are deemed okay and legal in this society although they cause much more harm and death, through the phama industry. Im done responding. The evidence is what it is. My opinion is what it is. You don't have to like it, or agree with it. Frankly my dears I don't give a damn.
All this jibber jabber over something which has almost nothing to do with my point about the drug policy in this country in the first place.

For someone who couldn't care less about antidepressants, "pulsar doth protest too much, methinks."

I'm trying to look at the scientific evidence in an unbiased manner. I'm not saying that antidepressants are a silver bullet, and I'm not denying that there is still a lot of research to be done in that area. I'm not denying that drug policies are comically corrupt and favour corporate profiteering over real effectiveness. And, I'm not trying to pick on you or your experience with medication. I honestly wish you'll find something that works for you.

 

[pulsar]

Let it go, no one cares. LMAO the day I fee; "picked on" in an internet forum omg. So don't care dude. Take a nap. There's more important things in the world.
Much Much More Important.
Oh and it's could care less. Couldn't care less is a double negative. There's something else for you to google since you obviously have too much time on your hands. Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Seriously though what is with this site? These people go on and on about their methods and all these detailed preparations and you know damn good and well most of them aren't going to go through with it, People that are don't go on and on about it. They want to fit in and have attention, oh goddddd my life is sooooo miserable. Some of us lost someone close to us and it not some cute game. Some of us have truly suffered for years and years. Im not here to fetishize ending life. I don't find it all glorious. It is a last resort that hopefully I won't have to end up seeing as the only way out. I want to meet some intelligent people and hear the experiences of others. Do I yearn for death no, I think you are a fool if you do. I yearn for connection and a reason to live. I tried many many things, nothing helped. life circumstances not some chemical imbalance. I see none of this as quaint or glamorous. They even use stupid euphemisms to gloss over what death really is. I'm just getting tired of the look at me I'm going to do this or that crap. It's not some grand gesture. it's a last resort an act of desperation. I hope I don't reach that point but I may well soon. Psilovybin is about the last hope there is.