Help Inert Gas Volume

[dyingispeaceful]

Hi Everyone,

Peaceful pill says that 400 L of inert gas is MORE THAN ENOUGH. The mega thread here says, a MINIMUM of 600 L is to be used.

My question is, if I buy a 600 L tank and lets say 100 L, is used as a prep to check everything works fine, do you reckon 500 L would be enough to ensure a reliable exit from this world as we know it? Secondly, could anyone please mention reliable sources that suggest gas capacity?

 

[TiredHorse]

The way I ran my calculations for the megathread was to multiply the known necessary flow rate of 15 LPM by the safe estimated time to death of 40 minutes.

15 LPM x 40 Min = 600 liters of inert gas.

400 liters gives you about 26 minutes of gas at 15 LPM.
500 liters gives you about 33 minutes.

To break down the reasoning behind the estimate:

15 LPM is a non-negotiable minimum. That's what's necessary to both replace the air and to flush away the exhaled CO2, thus forestalling the hypercapnic alarm.

The variable then becomes how long it will take you to succumb to asphyxia. In theory, you should become unconscious within a couple breaths and dead within a few minutes. In practice, I found it took many breaths, perhaps even a couple minutes (stress makes time do strange things when you're trying to die, so I can't say for certain) before my vision started to go grey around the edges. At that point, survival instinct reliably stymied my attempts, but my understanding is that exact time until death, after unconsciousness, is highly variable, and can be difficult to estimate/anticipate, so leaving a wide margin makes sense to me. 40 minutes was a number I came across in several sources on the internet when researching a safe time-to-death.

All of which is to say that a 500 L tank might be adequate --or it might not. Everything depends on how well you submit to unconsciousness, which you won't know until you try, and how quickly the asphyxiation becomes irreversably fatal, which you won't know until you're either dead or vegetabalized.

 

[Walilamdzi]

@TiredHorse That made interesting and informative reading, thanks.

 

[James28if]

i just purchased an N2 Tank 40in. with Victor Flow meter. i'll use this to practice. what purity should i use when i'm ready. i have cancer and need advice. this is a used tank i bought and i'm wondering do i need a new tank due to possible contaminants? i want to practice the art so i don't fail when the time comes.

 

[TiredHorse]

I seriously doubt you need to worry about contaminates in your existing, older tank --but having said that, I'd never actually considered it. I know my O2 and acetylene is still just fine after a decade in the tank, and they are a far cry from inert. N2, being inert, shouldn't have degraded from reacting with anything inside the tank, and with the tank being under pressure, no contaminates will have seeped into the tank. The only thing I'd worry about was whether the tank is still completely full after so long, or if an undetectable trickle-leak might have depleted it at all.

As for what purity to use when you go to refill/replace your tank, always get as close to 100% as you can. Generally no one will guarantee 100% purity (except for laboratory-grade, which is ridiculous $$$), but a welding supply store's 99.something% should be entirely adequate. It must be effectively pure or it simply won't work as a shielding gas in welders. That's what I have, and it was enough to grey out my vision before my survival instinct foiled me. But be careful purchasing from brewery supplies: I've come across at least one reference to adulterated N2 being sold for brewing.

 

[James28if]

i bought the used tank from a welding supply co with a full tank of nitrogen. i told the clerk i was using the N2 for tires. he asked me why i was concerned with purity if i was just doing tires. i told him if i'm buying gas i want the high test. it was like they know. i'll take it back for a refill after practicing N2 exitbag method. thanks for the advice. i appreciate it so much.

 

[TiredHorse]

I think word is getting around to the welding stores that they may be supplying suicide material, which doesn't bode well for us. We don't need more regulation.

To which, in the future anyone buying gas from a welding supply store, where high purity is almost guaranteed, might do well to be more casual when asking for specifics: "so how pure is this stuff, anyway?"

As for your own situation, @James28if, that you return for a refill should assuage any of their concerns.

 

[dyingispeaceful]

The way I ran my calculations for the megathread was to multiply the known necessary flow rate of 15 LPM by the safe estimated time to death of 40 minutes.

15 LPM x 40 Min = 600 liters of inert gas.

400 liters gives you about 26 minutes of gas at 15 LPM.
500 liters gives you about 33 minutes.

To break down the reasoning behind the estimate:

15 LPM is a non-negotiable minimum. That's what's necessary to both replace the air and to flush away the exhaled CO2, thus forestalling the hypercapnic alarm.

The variable then becomes how long it will take you to succumb to asphyxia. In theory, you should become unconscious within a couple breaths and dead within a few minutes. In practice, I found it took many breaths, perhaps even a couple minutes (stress makes time do strange things when you're trying to die, so I can't say for certain) before my vision started to go grey around the edges. At that point, survival instinct reliably stymied my attempts, but my understanding is that exact time until death, after unconsciousness, is highly variable, and can be difficult to estimate/anticipate, so leaving a wide margin makes sense to me. 40 minutes was a number I came across in several sources on the internet when researching a safe time-to-death.

All of which is to say that a 500 L tank might be adequate --or it might not. Everything depends on how well you submit to unconsciousness, which you won't know until you try, and how quickly the asphyxiation becomes irreversably fatal, which you won't know until you're either dead or vegetabalized.

Thank you for your response TiredHorse. I've got a C Size Cylinder and I really can't afford this method to fail. Would you be able to guide me with how to prep up and check if everything works perfectly while ensuring minimal amount of gas is consumed, since you have some experience with this?

 

[TiredHorse]

Thank you for your response TiredHorse. I've got a C Size Cylinder and I really can't afford this method to fail. Would you be able to guide me with how to prep up and check if everything works perfectly while ensuring minimal amount of gas is consumed, since you have some experience with this?

Um. My quick internet search for "C size cylinder" returns information that it only holds between 170 L and 255 L, or between 11 and 17 minutes at 15 LPM. Which means A) I've found the wrong information, and you need to educate me as to just how many liters of gas you have to work with, or B) you need a larger cylinder if you're to have any chance of success.

I suspect (A) is the correct answer.

All that said, I'll help where I can, but most of what I know is already archived in the exit bag and inert gas megathread.

Really, however, all your prep work happens without much more than a tiny burst (2 L?) of gas right when it's time to go, to make sure the flowmeter is set correctly. Even then, you can make sure that test burst goes toward inflating the exit bag and isn't actually wasted. If you have a marginal supply of gas, there's no imperative reason to turn on the gas until you're sitting in the chair, bag on your head, ready to board the bus.

 

[dyingispeaceful]

Um. My quick internet search for "C size cylinder" returns information that it only holds between 170 L and 255 L, or between 11 and 17 minutes at 15 LPM. Which means A) I've found the wrong information, and you need to educate me as to just how many liters of gas you have to work with, or B) you need a larger cylinder if you're to have any chance of success.

I suspect (A) is the correct answer.

All that said, I'll help where I can, but most of what I know is already archived in the exit bag and inert gas megathread.

Really, however, all your prep work happens without much more than a tiny burst (2 L?) of gas right when it's time to go, to make sure the flowmeter is set correctly. Even then, you can make sure that test burst goes toward inflating the exit bag and isn't actually wasted. If you have a marginal supply of gas, there's no imperative reason to turn on the gas until you're sitting in the chair, bag on your head, ready to board the bus.

Check this link: https://sydneytools.com.au/product/speedgas-botarcp-c-size-bottle-with-argon-pure. Could you point out the sources that mention the capacity of C size being between 170 L and 255 L. I could also be wrong.

 

[James28if]

I seriously doubt you need to worry about contaminates in your existing, older tank --but having said that, I'd never actually considered it. I know my O2 and acetylene is still just fine after a decade in the tank, and they are a far cry from inert. N2, being inert, shouldn't have degraded from reacting with anything inside the tank, and with the tank being under pressure, no contaminates will have seeped into the tank. The only thing I'd worry about was whether the tank is still completely full after so long, or if an undetectable trickle-leak might have depleted it at all.

As for what purity to use when you go to refill/replace your tank, always get as close to 100% as you can. Generally no one will guarantee 100% purity (except for laboratory-grade, which is ridiculous $$$), but a welding supply store's 99.something% should be entirely adequate. It must be effectively pure or it simply won't work as a shielding gas in welders. That's what I have, and it was enough to grey out my vision before my survival instinct foiled me. But be careful purchasing from brewery supplies: I've come across at least one reference to adulterated N2 being sold for brewing.

I seriously doubt you need to worry about contaminates in your existing, older tank --but having said that, I'd never actually considered it. I know my O2 and acetylene is still just fine after a decade in the tank, and they are a far cry from inert. N2, being inert, shouldn't have degraded from reacting with anything inside the tank, and with the tank being under pressure, no contaminates will have seeped into the tank. The only thing I'd worry about was whether the tank is still completely full after so long, or if an undetectable trickle-leak might have depleted it at all.

As for what purity to use when you go to refill/replace your tank, always get as close to 100% as you can. Generally no one will guarantee 100% purity (except for laboratory-grade, which is ridiculous $$$), but a welding supply store's 99.something% should be entirely adequate. It must be effectively pure or it simply won't work as a shielding gas in welders. That's what I have, and it was enough to grey out my vision before my survival instinct foiled me. But be careful purchasing from brewery supplies: I've come across at least one reference to adulterated N2 being sold for brewing.

The way I ran my calculations for the megathread was to multiply the known necessary flow rate of 15 LPM by the safe estimated time to death of 40 minutes.

15 LPM x 40 Min = 600 liters of inert gas.

400 liters gives you about 26 minutes of gas at 15 LPM.
500 liters gives you about 33 minutes.

To break down the reasoning behind the estimate:

15 LPM is a non-negotiable minimum. That's what's necessary to both replace the air and to flush away the exhaled CO2, thus forestalling the hypercapnic alarm.

The variable then becomes how long it will take you to succumb to asphyxia. In theory, you should become unconscious within a couple breaths and dead within a few minutes. In practice, I found it took many breaths, perhaps even a couple minutes (stress makes time do strange things when you're trying to die, so I can't say for certain) before my vision started to go grey around the edges. At that point, survival instinct reliably stymied my attempts, but my understanding is that exact time until death, after unconsciousness, is highly variable, and can be difficult to estimate/anticipate, so leaving a wide margin makes sense to me. 40 minutes was a number I came across in several sources on the internet when researching a safe time-to-death.

All of which is to say that a 500 L tank might be adequate --or it might not. Everything depends on how well you submit to unconsciousness, which you won't know until you try, and how quickly the asphyxiation becomes irreversably fatal, which you won't know until you're either dead or vegetabalized.

TireHorse... do you have any ideas on how to deal with the survival instinct? i put aside some opiates from my surgery. seems when i was high on the morphine i didn't care about anything.

 

[TiredHorse]

Check this link: https://sydneytools.com.au/product/speedgas-botarcp-c-size-bottle-with-argon-pure. Could you point out the sources that mention the capacity of C size being between 170 L and 255 L. I could also be wrong.

What you have looks just fine --600L. Tank size and nomenclature is notoriously non-standardized --I now know a "C" in Australia is completely different from a "C" in the US-- and it looks like I just re-discovered that.

TireHorse... do you have any ideas on how to deal with the survival instinct? i put aside some opiates from my surgery. seems when i was high on the morphine i didn't care about anything.

I wish I did know how to deal with SI, but as I've mentioned, it shut down six attempts in a year. Morphine sounds like as good an idea as any I've heard, so long as you remain coordinated and mentally acute enough to activate the eb/N2 equipment.

Some things I did before my attempts that I believed kept me calmer:

• Sitting with the bag over my head, no gas running, just seeing how it felt and letting the air run down. It showed me that it takes a surprisingly long time for the air to run out and the hypercapnic alarm to kick in. It also got me used to the rustling of the bag.
• Doing several set-up dry runs: retreiving the tank from where I have it stowed, lashing it to the leg of the chair, running the tubing, getting the bag onto my head and the tube in place --everything in the process right up to turning on the gas. It ironed out all the kinks, told me what might go wrong, so that when the time came I didn't have any small problems that might have thrown me off balance. It also got me used to handling the equipment.
• In the same vein, doing dry runs of setting up all the paperwork and notifications, even to scheduling the emails (and then deleting them!). Again, it ironed out all the kinks and gave me confidence in my protocols.

In the end, none of those foiled SI --and I'm not sure they would if I were to again attempt. They did make me more confident that all would go well aside from my own reactions, and remove any mysteries about the mechanical process, which for me was important. If my recovery attempts fail and I again head for the bus stop, I will be doing the same thing.

A couple things I learned that might be helpful:

• When practicing with the bag on my head, no gas, the bag fogs up horribly. It's quite annoying. However, then doing it "for real," the gas flushes away the condensation and there isn't any fogging to speak of.
• The hiss of gas flowing through the tube is surprisingly loud and, to me, distracting. Or perhaps "loud" isn't quite right --very noticeable. I kept meaning to put on earbuds and some good tunes to mute the sound of the gas, but never remembered. Another sign of my stress, perhaps.

 

[dyingispeaceful]

What you have looks just fine --600L. Tank size and nomenclature is notoriously non-standardized --I now know a "C" in Australia is completely different from a "C" in the US-- and it looks like I just re-discovered that.

I wish I did know how to deal with SI, but as I've mentioned, it shut down six attempts in a year. Morphine sounds like as good an idea as any I've heard, so long as you remain coordinated and mentally acute enough to activate the eb/N2 equipment.

Some things I did before my attempts that I believed kept me calmer:

• Sitting with the bag over my head, no gas running, just seeing how it felt and letting the air run down. It showed me that it takes a surprisingly long time for the air to run out and the hypercapnic alarm to kick in. It also got me used to the rustling of the bag.
• Doing several set-up dry runs: retreiving the tank from where I have it stowed, lashing it to the leg of the chair, running the tubing, getting the bag onto my head and the tube in place --everything in the process right up to turning on the gas. It ironed out all the kinks, told me what might go wrong, so that when the time came I didn't have any small problems that might have thrown me off balance. It also got me used to handling the equipment.
• In the same vein, doing dry runs of setting up all the paperwork and notifications, even to scheduling the emails (and then deleting them!). Again, it ironed out all the kinks and gave me confidence in my protocols.

In the end, none of those foiled SI --and I'm not sure they would if I were to again attempt. They did make me more confident that all would go well aside from my own reactions, and remove any mysteries about the mechanical process, which for me was important. If my recovery attempts fail and I again head for the bus stop, I will be doing the same thing.

A couple things I learned that might be helpful:

• When practicing with the bag on my head, no gas, the bag fogs up horribly. It's quite annoying. However, then doing it "for real," the gas flushes away the condensation and there isn't any fogging to speak of.
• The hiss of gas flowing through the tube is surprisingly loud and, to me, distracting. Or perhaps "loud" isn't quite right --very noticeable. I kept meaning to put on earbuds and some good tunes to mute the sound of the gas, but never remembered. Another sign of my stress, perhaps.

Thanks dude. I feel some peace of mind now.
How big of a cylinder do you have? Are you storing it on a cart or anything else? Are you taking any substances to lower the SI?

 

[James28if]

i just received this from Walmart to replicate a head for the exit bag to do dry runs. i want to put a headband around the neck and place the bag/drawcord on the headband with 1/2 in clear hose running up the bag not too tightly so the N2 can flush out the headband at 15/20 LPM. i have some cash aside so i can use as much N2 as i need to practice the art. anymore input from you good folks helps greatly. as i said i have cancer and the disease makes me feel trapped and tied to big pharma. its a blessing to hear from you good people.

 

[Jen Erik]

i just received this from Walmart to replicate a head for the exit bag to do dry runs.

This is an interesting idea. It would have never occurred to me.

For me, what has been most helpful in practicing is setting everything up as needed and running through the entire protocol, stopping of course at the final step, of pulling the inflated bag down over my face.

 

[James28if]

This is an interesting idea. It would have never occurred to me.

For me, what has been most helpful in practicing is setting everything up as needed and running through the entire protocol, stopping of course at the final step, of pulling the inflated bag down over my face.

i havn't tried it yet being i'm waiting for a delivery of a Victor flow meter this week.

 

[TiredHorse]

Thanks dude. I feel some peace of mind now.
How big of a cylinder do you have? Are you storing it on a cart or anything else? Are you taking any substances to lower the SI?

You're welcome. As for my equipment, I have a 40cf cylinder of N2 that currently lives in my pantry --if anyone happens to notice it, it's just there to flush the various beans and grains I keep in stock and keep them fresh and bug-free for long term storage. I should probably secure it better against earthquakes, given how possible they are here in Puget Sound, but at the moment it's just standing in a corner.

As for SI, no, I'm not planning to take anything; I'm strangely squeamish about drugging myself for CTB --rather a counterproductive aversion, I know. I have a few thoughts on how to beat it, if I again decide to try, but they're very personalized --song playlist, etc.

i just received this from Walmart to replicate a head for the exit bag to do dry runs...

That's an interesting idea. As @Jen Erik and I have both done, you might consider using your own head once or twice, too, so that you aren't surprised by how it feels to have a bag in place when the time comes. It's an odd feeling, the first time.

I'm terribly sorry to hear of your cancer. That's a rotten toss of the dice, and I can easily imagine how you might feel trapped. I hope you can find peace from it one way or another.

 

[ArtVandelay]

TireHorse... do you have any ideas on how to deal with the survival instinct? i put aside some opiates from my surgery. seems when i was high on the morphine i didn't care about anything.

I think opiates would help with overcoming SI. However, they have respiratory side effects that can interfere with lung function and cause shortness of breath. I would be wary of using them since PPeH stresses how critical it is that you are able to fully exhale and inhale.

 

[James28if]

TiredHorse... can u tell me/us how you set up the chair for your N2 attempts? do you have an ideal type of chair to use?

 

[TiredHorse]

TiredHorse... can u tell me/us how you set up the chair for your N2 attempts? do you have an ideal type of chair to use?

I just have an old armchair that I use. Pretty much any chair will work if it allows you to lean back a little --so that you don't fall forward when you become unconscious. A while back, someone here (can't remember who) pointed out that a car's front bucket seat is just about perfect, especially with the seat belt to help hold you in place. The way I see it, if you can fall asleep in it comfortably, and not fall out, it's probably adequate to support you while you're unconscious and dying.

I then use a piece of 1" nylon webbing to tie the gas cylinder to the front leg of the chair, so that it doesn't fall over if I twitch as I'm dying. Had I not had the webbing, I probably would have just used duct tape. Conveniently, it all works out so that the cylinder's valve is close beside my hand with my arm resting naturally.

From the cylinder, I run the tubing up behind my arm and shoulder, up my nape to the back of my head (I have long hair, so I tuck the end of the tubing through my hair elastic), so that it's unlikely I would pull it loose if my arm twitches.

Remember, though: survival instinct has foiled me every time, so it isn't like I can say "this works!" with any authority. I'm just guessing, the same as you. I know I want to be comfortable, and I know I need to have the chair support me/confine me in case I twitch, so that I don't flop about and displace the cylinder, bag, or tubing.

 

[James28if]

TiredHorse.... when i return for the 40 cu/ft N2 refill after dry runs, should i get 60 size tank for good measure so i have a guaranteed amount? i'm feelin untrapped from this bloody cancer. this advice you give is a blessing.... thanks

 

[ArtVandelay]

40 cf is more than double what you need. 60 cf seems like overkill to me, but if money is no object then you might as well get 60.

 

[TiredHorse]

TiredHorse.... when i return for the 40 cu/ft N2 refill after dry runs, should i get 60 size tank for good measure so i have a guaranteed amount? i'm feelin untrapped from this bloody cancer. this advice you give is a blessing.... thanks

I looked at it the way @ArtVandelay points out, that 40cf is double what is needed; that is precisely why I have a 40cf. It even potentially allows you to fail a couple times without making further attempts logistically complicated: even after a couple flubbed attempts, having started with twice what I need I'm confident that there's enough remaining for one last try, should I give up on my current attempt at recovery.

I suppose there's no harm in getting a 60cf tank, but remember that the bigger the tank, the heavier the apparatus, and the more awkward it becomes to move the tank around, secure it to your chair, keep it out of sight from unexpected visitors, etc.

I'm sorry you're in such a wretched trap, and I wish there were another way forward for you, but if I can help you feel less trapped I am grateful for the opportunity to do so.

 

[James28if]

thanks TiredHorse.... i other way fwd is big pharma drugs making me sick (chemo therapy + other heavy drugs) so i can live longer. its not worth it to me and the N2 / your knowledge, seems like a gift to me.

 

[Hush Sweet Charlotte]

TireHorse... do you have any ideas on how to deal with the survival instinct? i put aside some opiates from my surgery. seems when i was high on the morphine i didn't care about anything.

I find the prospect of doing this quite scary and given I don't actually want to die I'm going to have to wait until I'm in a pretty bad physical state to go ahead with this, so stress levels will be off the chart and I can't tolerate any drugs or alcohol to calm me down. So, whenever I think of it I imagine I'll be breathing in something like laughing gas and that I'm maybe being put to sleep for an operation, and say words like 'peace' or 'deliverance' to myself. I saw the video here https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-vs-n.8716/ called 'Why you should put your mask on first', where the subject is deprived of oxygen and becomes euphoric. His daft grin is a good image to have in your mind.

Not everyone reacts the same way to hypoxia, euphoria is just one possibility, but I've found it useful to look at the other possible symptoms so I'm a little more prepared for them. One seems to be that your breathing rate can increase, so if that happens it doesn't mean anything is going wrong but just an effect of the hypoxia. I'm not sure any of this will help when it comes to it of course. I wish you all the best.

 

[James28if]

Hey Hush Sweet Charlotte.... thanks for the response and YouTube link.

 

[James28if]

Friends... I am going to construct eb. i bought how to
How to Make Your Own Inert Gas Hood Kit byDerek H.
is there any others tips to learn?

 

[ArtVandelay]

Friends... I am going to construct eb. i bought how to
How to Make Your Own Inert Gas Hood Kit byDerek H.
is there any others tips to learn?

Check out Betty's video:

also the PPH has good instructions.

 

[James28if]

I ordered this stand so i can get some technique down with the bag and the inert flow. i'm going after the cancer now, the battle begins. when u get caught buy the enemy its better to take them before they take you. fighting cancer is a losing battle on this earth so i'm killing this cancer and moving on, cancer's gonna be dead. thanks for the help all good people, all tips are most welcome
cyanide capsule

sorry "cyanide capsule" was a copy and paste mistake . nothing to do with topic

 

[Hush Sweet Charlotte]

I have a small cylinder trolley I ordered online as I thought the tank might be too heavy to move around. It isn't too heavy but the trolley is handy and works as a stand too.