Venting I'm so afraid of vomiting

[ZardozOmega]

Even with antiemetic, you can still vomit, and I hate vomiting. I find it to be painful and unpleasant, and it would likely signal to my mom something is wrong. I don't want to go back to the hospital or the mental institution. My God, I wish there was a better way to end it

 

[Ghost2211]

After three pregnancies and migraines I am also not a huge fan of vomiting, and I imagine super salty vomit isn't super fun. I don't think there's anyway to really avoid vomiting with SN. I suppose one would just have to consider if it's worth the discomfort. Also probably don't do it near your mom since yeah she'll hear you.

 

[LonelyDude15]

I'm planning on taking multiple pills like an hour before to help avoid that

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

Theoretically, combining metocloperamide and scopolamine (found in datura inoxia seeds) would help. Meto blocks the obvious (dopamine and serotonin). Scopolamine blocks acetylcholine as well as directly blocking the vomiting centre.

 

[OblivionSeeker]

Didn't I read somewhere that drinking gingerale helps avoid vomitting (?)

 

[ZardozOmega]

I'm planning on taking multiple pills like an hour before to help avoid that

me too, I'll be taking domperidone

Theoretically, combining metocloperamide and scopolamine (found in datura inoxia seeds) would help. Meto blocks the obvious (dopamine and serotonin). Scopolamine blocks acetylcholine as well as directly blocking the vomiting centre.

scopolamine only works for motion sickness, unfortunately. ondasentron might help, but it is way too expensive for me.

 

[k75]

I've come to the conclusion that vomiting is probably just going to happen. So you have to decide if the end result is worth a little discomfort. I think the fear and anticipation is probably going to be the worst part, so the best you can do is try to just stop worrying about it.

I suspect it's not that bad, as far as that kind of thing goes. It's likely to be spontaneous and also liquid, and in my experience, that's never fun but not painful or anything. Just unpleasant.
Vomiting only hurts for me if it's a situation with lots of dry heaving and straining to try to throw up. Very unlikely to be the case with this.

Just as a random observation, one thing people get really worried about is noise. Being heard vomiting. I don't get it. Because of some health issues, I vomit a lot, but it's pretty quiet. I've heard loud vomiting, but it always kind of seems to me the person is being loud, with groans and retching that's unnecessary. Can this really not be controlled? I've never in my life made much noise throwing up, even at my sickest.

Didn't I read somewhere that drinking gingerale helps avoid vomitting (?)

That can kind of settle your stomach if you are just feeling queasy, but it's not going to do a thing in this case. You'd be better off eating straight ginger, but even then... not gonna help here. This is poison, and your body is going to do what it can to get rid of it. Natural remedies won't work.

ondasentron might help, but it is way too expensive for me.

This comment made me go check my prescription paperwork. Crap, I didn't realize it was so expensive! $308 for just the generic. I'm really glad my insurance covers it, because I have to take it with pretty much everything I eat.

In contrast, my Meto is $17 out of pocket!

So much greed. I hate to think of people who really need this stuff and can't afford it. I'd be screwed. :(

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

me too, I'll be taking domperidone


scopolamine only works for motion sickness, unfortunately. ondasentron might help, but it is way too expensive for me.

Not necessarily... it's used for ibs, ponv, as well. It blocks out muscarinic receptors, which one of them is responsible for contractions that lead to vomiting. Not to mention it inhibits gastric secretion.

And the final mechanism of emesis is due to the vomiting centre and release of acetylcholine.

 

[ZardozOmega]

Not necessarily... it's used for ibs, ponv, as well. It blocks out muscarinic receptors, which one of them is responsible for contractions that lead to vomiting. Not to mention it inhibits gastric secretion.

And the final mechanism of emesis is due to the vomiting centre and release of acetylcholine.

The pph specifically says only d2 antagonists and 5htp3 antagonists work. No motion sickness medication.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

The pph specifically says only d2 antagonists and 5htp3 antagonists work. No motion sickness medication.

Scopolamine is not specifically designed for motion sickness. The antiemetic effect is partially due to direct action on the vomiting center, as well as directly on the stomach as a antispasmodic.

After all, combining scopolamine together with ondansetron increases the efficacy of blocking emesis. As does meto and scopolamine.

Prochlorperazine and transdermal scopolamine added to a metoclopramide antiemetic regimen. A controlled comparison - PubMed

Cisplatin-induced nausea and vomiting occurs both acutely and over a prolonged period of time. These symptoms may be incapacitating and are frequently given as a reason to discontinue therapy. We compared prochlorperazine and transdermal scopolamine when added to a standardized metoclopramide...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[ZardozOmega]

Scopolamine is not specifically designed for motion sickness. The antiemetic effect is partially due to direct action on the vomiting center, as well as directly on the stomach as a antispasmodic.

After all, combining scopolamine together with ondansetron increases the efficacy of blocking emesis. As does meto and scopolamine.

Prochlorperazine and transdermal scopolamine added to a metoclopramide antiemetic regimen. A controlled comparison - PubMed

Cisplatin-induced nausea and vomiting occurs both acutely and over a prolonged period of time. These symptoms may be incapacitating and are frequently given as a reason to discontinue therapy. We compared prochlorperazine and transdermal scopolamine when added to a standardized metoclopramide...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Again, pph says it won't work. The link you posted refers to vomiting caused by chemotherapy, not nitrite.
I'm not taking scopolamine. It won't work and it is also very unpleasant. I may use atropine, but that's it.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

Again, pph says it won't work. The link you posted refers to vomiting caused by chemotherapy, not nitrite.
I'm not taking scopolamine. It won't work and it is also very unpleasant. I may use atropine, but that's it.

1: Have you thought about the specific mechanisms on how metoclopramide and ondansetron works?

2: As was ondansetron designed for chemo, as well as gastritis/gastroenteritis (irritation/inflammation to the stomach lining), or pregnancy induced vomiting, which scopolamine is useful for. Only reason it's known to have use for nitrite is because PPeh mentions it. However, the mechanisms behind meto and ondansetron either partially involve or work similar to muscarinic acetylcholine inhibitors. And heck, scopolamine is sometimes used as a substitute for ondansetron as it's cheaper. Or when neither meto, ondansetron, or other stuff works. We're not talking about those weaker antiemetics like dramamine and whatever.

3: You don't have to take scopolamine if you don't want to. But keep in mind that you're the one who made the post worrying about puking (even with the antiemetics, which I assumed was dopamine antagonist and serotonin antagonists). I merely just brought up an idea of going the triple-therapy antiemetic route.

4: Not really. In normal doses, it's pretty harmless. And I can rightfully say that as I used to use datura for digestive issues. Which is around 300-400 mcg of scopolamine, with no ill effects. The safe antiemetic dose is 300-600 mcg. To get to uncomfortable levels requires a very high dose, we're talking milligrams.

5: FYI, atropine is basically like scopolamine, only difference is that it's much more active on the heart, and doesn't sedate you.

 

[Gnip]

Didn't I read somewhere that drinking gingerale helps avoid vomiting (?)

Most commercial ginger ale no longer contains ginger. Instead, I take ginger capsules with water as my every day antiemetic and anti nausea agent of of choice. Typically, I suggest that anybody I know who is pregnant, susceptible to motion sickness or has the flu to try ginger capsules for attempting to hold down fluids and stay hydrated.

However, with poison, a different mechanism is involved, and metoclopramide seems to be the medication of choice here for preventing emesis with poisons.

However,

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

However, with poison, a different mechanism is involved, and metoclopramide seems to be the medication of choice here for preventing emesis with poisons.

However,

However...?

 

[Gnip]

However...?

Meaning the pharmacodynamics of metoclopramide are different as a dopamine receptor antagonist, and additionally more comprehensive than the simpler and less comprehensive pharmacodynamics of herbal ginger as they are still being discovered. (Studies do indicate that herbal ginger is superior to Dramamine for counteracting motion sickness,)

Based on what I've learned here, I definitely would not use ginger as an antiemetic with sodium nitrite, but create a ruse for getting my prescriber to place me on metoclopramide instead if I was plotting to use SN to CTB.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

Meaning the pharmacodynamics of metoclopramide are different as a dopamine receptor antagonist, and additionally more comprehensive than the simpler and less comprehensive pharmacodynamics of herbal ginger as they are still being discovered. (Studies do indicate that herbal ginger is superior to Dramamine for counteracting motion sickness,)

Based on what I've learned here, I definitely would not use ginger as an antiemetic with sodium nitrite, but create a ruse for getting my prescriber to place me on metoclopramide instead if I was plotting to use SN to CTB.

Ah, right... that. I agree.

 

[ZardozOmega]

I'm sure the authors of PPH know scopolamine exists, and they must have a good reason for not mentioning it. The fact it slows the passage of food from the stomach to the small intestine might have something to do with it. Scopolamine might be similar to atropine chemically, but not pharmacologically. It has significant CNS effects that are almost absent with atropine.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

I'm sure the authors of PPH know scopolamine exists, and they must have a good reason for not mentioning it. The fact it slows the passage of food from the stomach to the small intestine might have something to do with it. Scopolamine might be similar to atropine chemically, but not pharmacologically. It has significant CNS effects that are almost absent with atropine.

WELL... You're not wrong about that. Scopolamine does inhibit gastrointestinal motility, while meto speeds it up. Fair enough.

There are two forms of scopolamine, the one that crosses the BBB and causes central effect is scopolamine hydrobromide. The one that doesn't is buscopan (scopolamine-butylbromide). Atropine... perhaps might not sound so bad. But then again, it's excitatory.

 

[Nymph]

There's many methods that you can use, no? If vomiting is too scary it might be even more harder to overcome SI

 

[watchingthewheels]

Looking at this thread, trying to find out if Buscopan for IBC will work well enough as anti-emetic for SN or N. Trying to go through available threads on the topic first, but seems to be continued debate over it...
Has it been determined if Buscopan hyoscine butylbromide is effective enough, if nothing else is available?

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

Looking at this thread, trying to find out if Buscopan for IBC will work well enough as anti-emetic for SN or N. Trying to go through available threads on the topic first, but seems to be continued debate over it...
Has it been determined if Buscopan hyoscine butylbromide is effective enough, if nothing else is available?

That, has become a tough question. I used to think it might be effective, but upon research, I think hydrobromide (capsules) are a better option. Buscopan may have antiemetic effects, though it's limited due to only a small amount being able to cross the BBB. That said, I suppose there's no harm in trying if you're concerned about the anticholinergic side effects.
I only imagine it would be effective as scopolamine can to 5ht3 receptors (not just muscarinic), and has direct action on the vomiting centre, which is the final pathway that leads to vomiting, which includes 5ht2, (Ach)M, and H1. Dopamine is nog included as dopamine and acetylcholine goes hand in hand.

 

[saltshaker]

Don't do it at you moms house she'll hear you vomitting and struggling, then you'll have up in an ER.

 

[watchingthewheels]

That, has become a tough question. I used to think it might be effective, but upon research, I think hydrobromide (capsules) are a better option. Buscopan may have antiemetic effects, though it's limited due to only a small amount being able to cross the BBB. That said, I suppose there's no harm in trying if you're concerned about the anticholinergic side effects.
I only imagine it would be effective as scopolamine can to 5ht3 receptors (not just muscarinic), and has direct action on the vomiting centre, which is the final pathway that leads to vomiting, which includes 5ht2, (Ach)M, and H1. Dopamine is nog included as dopamine and acetylcholine goes hand in hand.

Thanks for the info.

 

[BridgeJumper]

Wow, why are all methods Not For Me.
Metoclopramide causes me horrible side effects and I vomit everything I eat anyway yet alone poison ;__;
And now most days Im too sick to go to my bridge.
Fuck life....

 

[ZardozOmega]

WELL... You're not wrong about that. Scopolamine does inhibit gastrointestinal motility, while meto speeds it up. Fair enough.

There are two forms of scopolamine, the one that crosses the BBB and causes central effect is scopolamine hydrobromide. The one that doesn't is buscopan (scopolamine-butylbromide). Atropine... perhaps might not sound so bad. But then again, it's excitatory.

I might try buscopan, but I'll take 50 mg of domperidone with it

Don't do it at you moms house she'll hear you vomitting and struggling, then you'll have up in an ER.

i don't have anywhere else to do it. i'll just have to vomit quietly if i can

Wow, why are all methods Not For Me.
Metoclopramide causes me horrible side effects and I vomit everything I eat anyway yet alone poison ;__;
And now most days Im too sick to go to my bridge.
Fuck life....

same for me. meto makes me restless, which is why i'm sticking with domperidone

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

I might try buscopan, but I'll take 50 mg of domperidone with it

Now that combination, I'm gonna have to look at that, cause I remember reading that it's contradicted to use in combination as domperidone is a prokinetic (as it releases acetylcholine to induce peristalsis) while scopolamine is a gut motility inhibitor, cancelling the effects.

 

[ZardozOmega]

Now that combination, I'm gonna have to look at that, cause I remember reading that it's contradicted to use in combination as domperidone is a prokinetic (as it releases acetylcholine to induce peristalsis) while scopolamine is a gut motility inhibitor, cancelling the effects.

Meto is also a prokinetic.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

Meto is also a prokinetic.

Hmmm... this kinda makes it tricky... though, since meto has been mentioned in being more useful as an antiemetic when combined with scopolamine, it's likely that meto has more central effects, but that's also likely with hydrobromide scopolamine. So... I guess it's possible. Domperidone however is less centrally active, and because buscopan is also the same in limited BBB penetration, yeah.

I'd say one thing that has definitely been mentiones for triple therapy antiemetics is scopolamine combined with 5ht antagonists.

 

[ZardozOmega]

Hmmm... this kinda makes it tricky... though, since meto has been mentioned in being more useful as an antiemetic when combined with scopolamine, it's likely that meto has more central effects, but that's also likely with hydrobromide scopolamine. So... I guess it's possible. Domperidone however is less centrally active, and because buscopan is also the same in limited BBB penetration, yeah.

I'd say one thing that has definitely been mentiones for triple therapy antiemetics is scopolamine combined with 5ht antagonists.

You don't need to have access to the cns to work as an antiemetic.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

You don't need to have access to the cns to work as an antiemetic.

Well, domperidone work by stimulating the muscarinic receptors, hence cause stomach emptying. Scopolamine does the opposite working on all muscarinic receptors with antagonistic action.

Granted... I forgot about the fact that meto also inhibits 5ht3 which must be why it would work better with scopolamine vs domperidone.

I'm gonna look further into this. Though, I'd do the same if I were you.