I'm convinced that when I die I'm just going to come back here.

[Wayfaerer]

I'm at the same point, but I'm really scared of having to live a next life.

Well, I know you're no longer active but in case you're still reading this thread, there isn't much room for reincarnation. It's either eternal return or it's eternal death, and no other option is really feasible.

 

[someone02]

Well, I know you're no longer active but in case your still reading this thread [...]

Yes, I'm active again. I had deactivated my account, but have reactivated it now. I dont know why my username is still crossed out. (Sorry for causing confusion.)

It's either eternal return or it's eternal death, and no other option is really feasible.

What do you mean by "eternal return"?

 

[Wayfaerer]

Yes, I'm active again. I had deactivated my account, but have reactivated it now. I dont know why my username is still crossed out. (Sorry for causing confusion.)


What do you mean by "eternal return"?

What the OP is talking about.

 

[RedDEE]

What do you mean by "eternal return"?

He thinks you get reincarnated forever. LOL.

What the OP is talking about.

When you propose eternal recurrence, THIS is the hell you are proposing,

 

[ExitStageLeft]

He thinks you get reincarnated forever. LOL.

There's a very simple answer to this:

There is no "I" in the sense of a continuous subject of experience. There is only experience. Nothingness cannot be experienced; it follows that nothing cannot exist and that experience must continue.

 

[someone02]

Now I am really confused.

What is the difference between reincarnation and eternal return?

 

[ExitStageLeft]

Now I am really confused.

What is the difference between reincarnation and eternal return?

Reincarnation posits a spirit that moves between organisms after death. Eternal return is the thesis that everything which exists will eventually recombine to form an arbitrarily self-identical prior state, including the individual and the qualia (mental states) produced by that individual.

 

[Wayfaerer]

Now I am really confused.

What is the difference between reincarnation and eternal return?

Beginning from the first post in the thread all the way prior page, we discuss the theory of eternal return which is a time loop where the universe through whatever mechanism creates universes over an infinite amount of time, eventually, we come full circle and end up in a universe just like this one now.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

When you propose eternal recurrence, THIS is the hell you are proposing,

Not if, as I suggested, it is conceivable to imagine recurrent universes self-identical up to the moment of your first conscious awareness. If the universe truly does repeat an infinite number of times, then it is entirely plausible to believe that you will find yourself in an indeterminate universe.

 

[someone02]

Reincarnation posits a spirit that moves between organisms after death. Eternal return is the thesis that everything which exists will eventually recombine to form an arbitrarily self-identical prior state, including the individual and the qualia (mental states) produced by that individual.

This means that my suffering/agony will continue in both scenarios, right?

 

[RedDEE]

There is no "I" in the sense of a continuous subject of experience. There is only experience. Nothingness cannot be experienced; it follows that nothing cannot exist and that experience must continue.

Okay, let me blow your mind.

Imagine a multiverse that infinitely branches out. This multiverse is infinite and contains every possible thing that could ever happen.

So imagine your own life. You start traveling down a branch of the multiverse, and you come to a fork in the rode. You can either die, or survive.

In an infinite multiverse, there would be one "branch" that you live. And one "branch" where you die. Would your "consciousness" perceive itself to be living in the branch of the multiverse you survive, since the branch where you die does not exist and therefore cannot be experienced?

And to further this postulation, could it be said that it's possible that in an infinite universe with infinite branches, there is a branch where YOU, in THIS LIFE, are immortal? A branch where you decide to get Cyrogenically frozen? And then in the future, they figure out how to revive cyrogenically frozen people? And in this highly advanced future, the human species has figured out how to become immortal?

 

[ExitStageLeft]

This means that my suffering/agony will continue in both scenarios, right?

It depends. If such a universe is indeterminate, it is possible to imagine universes which are identical in every way up to the point of your first sense of self-awareness, which then begin to change. This, again, if the universe is reproduced endlessly.

 

[Wayfaerer]

This means that my suffering/agony will continue in both scenarios, right?

It depends. If our universe is hard indeterministic (no free will but still not deterministic) then not necessarily. If our universe is rigidly deterministic, then yes I'm afraid. However, it's not totally 100% proven so keep that in mind. Even if it were true, it wouldn't stack but I know that doesn't provide much comfort.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

Okay, let me blow your mind.

Imagine a multiverse that infinitely branches out. This multiverse is infinite and contains every possible thing that could ever happen.

So imagine your own life. You start traveling down a branch of the multiverse, and you come to a fork in the rode. You can either die, or survive.

In an infinite multiverse, there would be one "branch" that you live. And one "branch" where you die. Would your "consciousness" perceive itself to be living in the branch of the multiverse you survive, since the branch where you die does not exist and therefore cannot be experienced?

And to further this postulation, could it be said that it's possible that in an infinite universe with infinite branches, there is a branch where YOU, in THIS LIFE, are immortal? A branch where you decide to get Cyrogenically frozen? And then in the future, they figure out how to revive cyrogenically frozen people? And in this highly advanced future, the human species has figured out how to become immortal?

Yeah, I know about Quantum Immortality. But I think the eternal return is more plausible, simply because there is no demonstrated mechanism for universes branching in the moment. I think it's more likely that every possible scenario plays itself out through linear time.

 

[Wayfaerer]

It depends. If such a universe is indeterminate, it is possible to imagine universes which are identical in every way up to the point of your first sense of self-awareness, which then begin to change. This, again, if the universe is reproduced endlessly.

Ah, that is the video I was searching for! Thank you for posting it.

 

[RedDEE]

Yeah, I know about Quantum Immortality. But I think the eternal return is more plausible, simply because there is no demonstrated mechanism for universes branching in the moment. I think it's more likely that every possible scenario plays itself out through linear time.

HA! You think there's no evidence that universes are branching? Have you heard of the double-slit experiment, bruh?

 

[ExitStageLeft]

HA! You think there's no evidence that universes are branching? Have you heard of the double-slit experiment, bruh?

Yes. It still lacks an explanation for an actual mechanism to cause branching. There's no motivating force to cause it.

 

[someone02]

The topic of this thread is really complicated.
I don't unterstand everything written here and I don't have the energy trying to do so.

All I know is, that I have to end this agony either way.

I have to quit this topic. I'm sorry.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

The topic of this thread is really complicated.
I don't unterstand everything written here and I don't have the energy trying to do so.

All I know is, that I have to end this agony either way.

I have to quit this topic. I'm sorry.

TL;DR: A version of you might experience every possible outcome of your life.

 

[Passerby]

This thread hurts my brain

 

[RedDEE]

The topic of this thread is really complicated.
I don't unterstand everything written here and I don't have the energy trying to do so.

All I know is, that I have to end this agony either way.

I have to quit this topic. I'm sorry.

TL;DR: These guys are circle-jerking with bad theories and bad understanding of the universe.

You live once, and then you die. And then you go to eternal peace. THAT'S ALL. Walk away from this thread now, it will rot your mind.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

This thread hurts my brain

Do a Google search for "existential passage" (and its most extreme form, "open individualism") if you want an even worse headache. I don't personally subscribe to those theories (except a narrow reading of "existential passage" hooked into the eternal return), but they're possibilities.

You live once, and then you die. And then you go to eternal peace.

How can "you" go anywhere once you're dead? You're positing, essentially, a soul. You can't experience non-experience - which means, logically, that experience must continue in some form. Annihilationism, I believe, is wishful thinking.

If you believe that a self-identical brain is necessary for experience to resume, eternal return solves that problem. If you think that only a brain arbitrarily similar to the original brain is necessary, then existential passage works. Either way, non-existence is inconceivable, because non-existence does not exist.

 

[someone02]

You live once, and then you die. And then you go to eternal peace. THAT'S ALL. Walk away from this thread now, it will rot your mind.

There's no need to fob me off like this.
Sorry for having disturbed this thread.

 

[Wayfaerer]

There's no need to fob me off like this.
Sorry for having disturbed this thread.

You haven't disturbed this thread one bit. The TL:DR that ExitStageLeft had provided is the basic run-down (assuming that everything doesn't just boil down to cause and effect.)

 

[someone02]

You haven't disturbed this thread one bit.

Thank you for your kind words!

TL;DR: A version of you might experience every possible outcome of your life.

This is no consolation. It doesn't help the "version" I am, the one that's currently writing in this thread.

 

[RedDEE]

There's no need to fob me off like this.
Sorry for having disturbed this thread.

I wasn't trying to be rude to you. I just wanted you to know - you don't have to worry about coming back over and over again - I was trying to reassure you that when you die you will have eternal peace. There is no 'reincarnation' or whatever the hell these guys are calling it.

 

[someone02]

I wasn't trying to be rude to you. I just wanted you to know - you don't have to worry about coming back over and over again - I was trying to reassure you that when you die you will have eternal peace. There is no 'reincarnation' or whatever the hell these guys are calling it.

Thanks to you, too for your soothing/correcting words!

Sorry for making thing more complicated. But I'm at the point, where I don't even want to experience "eternal peace" after suicide. I don't want to exist in ANY way anymore.

 

[Wayfaerer]

This is no consolation. It doesn't help the "version" I am, the one that's currently writing in this thread.

Yeah, well, I know. Actually, I think this concept could be considered an "informational hazard" and it's not totally concrete but the mere possibility is more than enough to cause severe distress in some people (e.g. me) If you are particularly sensitive to pessimistic metaphysical interpretations, I'd abandon ship now while you still can. Otherwise, why not stay?

 

[ExitStageLeft]

Yeah, well, I know. Actually, I think this concept could be considered an "informational hazard" and it's not totally concrete but the mere possibility is more than enough to cause severe distress in some people (e.g. me) If you are particularly sensitive to pessimistic metaphysical interpretations, I'd abandon ship now while you still can. Otherwise, why not stay?

But if the indeterminate interpretation is true, then might you not find yourself under far better circumstances in some iterations?

 

[someone02]

Yeah, well, I know. Actually, I think this concept could be considered an "informational hazard" and it's not totally concrete but the mere possibility is more than enough to cause severe distress in some people (e.g. me) If you are particularly sensitive to pessimistic metaphysical interpretations, I'd abandon ship now while you still can. Otherwise, why not stay?

Well, I am particularly sensitive to pessimistic metaphysical interpretations.