If you're not vegan, what prevents you from being one?

[Chinaski]

not intending this to come across in a critical way, I know it's hard to convey tone over text. But I am a vegan and I find it hard to understand why others aren't. I know not everyone can eat 100% plant based but for those who can, and can avoid animal products, I'm curious as to why they don't

There is no reason, nutritionally, to not be vegan in 2024. Ultimately l can live with eating meat and veganism prices me out because I spend my money on getting pissed due to being a bad person.

 

[wildflowers1996]

Never watched or heard of that but if the theme is that humans are being treated the way we treat livestock I don't think that will convince me in any way. I'd eat human if it was safe, legal, and appetizing, that's how little I care. I am very burnt out but that doesn't and shouldn't excuse my evil.

it's showing the reality of how terribly animals are treated and how much they suffer because of animal agriculture. I'm not really sure what to say; I still doubt that you're evil though.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

From an ethical standpoint, whether the slaughtered animal sits on a supermarket shelf or digests in my gut is neither here nor there because it's already dead. In fact, maybe it's best that I do actually buy that animal product so that it doesn't expire and possibly go to waste.

If we as humans collectively decided we'd stop killing animals for food, I'd be on board, but because we haven't done that, any sacrifice I might make has zero impact.

I actually did go vegan for a few weeks (for health reasons) but I found it difficult to get my prior levels of protein on board. I was forced to eat alternative foods that weren't really doing it for me, in order to not feel dizzy and weak. So there is something of a "hassle" element involved - and the mere fact you can't just down a quick slice of pizza or get a juicy burger on the fly is kind of a dealbreaker for me, ultimately.

 

[wildflowers1996]

There is no reason, nutritionally, to not be vegan in 2024. Ultimately l can live with eating meat and veganism prices me out because I spend my money on getting pissed due to being a bad person.

it depends what you buy - you can eat plant based really, really cheaply - buying things like rice, beans etc. And maybe you're not a bad person but suffering and alcohol is your way of coping

 

[Chinaski]

it depends what you buy - you can eat plant based really, really cheaply - buying things like rice, beans etc. And maybe you're not a bad person but suffering and alcohol is your way of coping

No I'm just a pissed up prick, l can't fucking cook, meat is cheap and easy. Veganism is something l would do if l was rich, but if l was rich I'd be an even bigger bastard. What I'm saying is: veganism is correct, I've no argument against, only excuses. Good for you.

 

[wildflowers1996]

But lets face it. None of your hopes will actually happen. And i don't agree that if everyone was plant based there'd be much much less suffering. Far from it for the reasons I've stated about how farming processes are deemed necessary already to cope with current demand. And like I said. I like the taste of meat. And I don't count death as suffering. A dead animal doesn't suffer, only live ones do. And if man has no use for animals, he exterminates them so we'd have no animals left, because taking it further, we shouldn't even keep them as pets, and farm animals and pet animals are not able to cope in the wild.

as much as I have a negative view of the world, positive change does sometimes happen. There's still racism and slavery, but in some ways, things have improved due to activism. Please can I come back to you on your point about the farming processes - I don't agree with this, but I've had no sleep and need time to make a response to this. I don't count death as suffering either, but by carrying on buying meat and animal products, we increase demand for breeding animals, who will be generally treated badly and suffer. I don't expect farm animals or pets to have to survive in the wild; they just wouldn't exist eventually if we stopped breeding them. I think keeping animals as pets is ok if they are already alive and are in rescue shelters, but I don't support breeding

 

[alltoomuch2]

as much as I have a negative view of the world, positive change does sometimes happen. There's still racism and slavery, but in some ways, things have improved due to activism. Please can I come back to you on your point about the farming processes - I don't agree with this, but I've had no sleep and need time to make a response to this. I am finding it I don't count death as suffering either, but by carrying on buying meat, we increase demand for breeding animals, who will be generally treated badly and suffer. I don't expect farm animals or pets to have to survive in the wild; they just wouldn't exist if we stopped breeding them. I think keeping animals as pets is ok if they are already alive and are in rescue shelters, but I don't support breeding

I'm tired too, and in a bpd rage with someone else on here about something totally unrelated so I agree, leave it here. But I think both of our viewpoints are valid fwiw and more humane and thoughtful that those of many other people. xxx

 

[wildflowers1996]

No I'm just a pissed up prick, l can't fucking cook, meat is cheap and easy. Veganism is something l would do if l was rich, but if l was rich I'd be an even bigger bastard. What I'm saying is: veganism is correct, I've no argument against, only excuses. Good for you.

there are many people who have said "I could never go vegan" who do. There are some cheap and easy plant based options. I think more than anything maybe you just feel overwhelmed by having to learn what foods you could have as an alternative.

From an ethical standpoint, whether the slaughtered animal sits on a supermarket shelf or digests in my gut is neither here nor there because it's already dead. In fact, maybe it's best that I do actually buy that animal product so that it doesn't expire and possibly go to waste.

If we as humans collectively decided we'd stop killing animals for food, I'd be on board, but because we haven't done that, any sacrifice I might make has zero impact.

I actually did go vegan for a few weeks (for health reasons) but I found it difficult to get my prior levels of protein on board. I was forced to eat alternative foods that weren't really doing it for me, in order to not feel dizzy and weak. So there is something of a "hassle" element involved - and the mere fact you can't just down a quick slice of pizza or get a juicy burger on the fly is kind of a dealbreaker for me, ultimately.

by buying the animal product, you are increasing the demand for them - the higher the demand, the more animals will be bred, treated badly and slaughtered. If everyone who had the mindset "I can't make a difference" went vegan, a difference WOULD be made.

I'm sorry that you struggled with getting the right level of protein. It is definitely possible to get the protein you need, but I understand changing diet is not convenient. I guess the question for people is "is the well-being of animals worth us suffering inconvenience". I don't mean that in a rude way - I can understand how it feels overwhelming.

 

[Chinaski]

there are many people who have said "I could never go vegan" who do. There are some cheap and easy plant based options. I think more than anything maybe you just feel overwhelmed by having to learn what foods you could have as an alternative.

Everything you say is correct but you're trying to persuade a man who considers it a triumph when he successfully wipes his arse after a shit. You may as well be asking a hobo why he doesn't tap dance. This does not detract from your message, l think you are right, to be clear to anyone as yet unconvinced, l am the asshole here.

Anyways, animals are lucky to be eaten by carnivores, I'm at the top of the food chain and am therefore confined to a Flesh Prison.

 

[wildflowers1996]

Everything you say is correct but you're trying to persuade a man who considers it a triumph when he successfully wipes his arse after a shit. You may as well be asking a hobo why he doesn't tap dance. This does not detract from your message, l think you are right, to be clear to anyone as yet unconvinced, l am the asshole here.

Anyways, animals are lucky to be eaten by carnivores, I'm at the top of the food chain and am therefore confined to a Flesh Prison.

I wouldn't call you an asshole. My guess is that just that you're suffering a lot, and I'm sorry for that.

I am against slaughtering animals against their will, but I agree that death is not the worst part. For me, it's the suffering involved for the animals.

 

[Chinaski]

I wouldn't call you an asshole. My guess is that just that you're suffering a lot, and I'm sorry for that.

I am against slaughtering animals against their will, but I agree that death is not the worst part. For me, it's the suffering involved for the animals.

No I'm a prick, imo more people should admit to their own failings before heralding their own victimhood but this is beside the point, l too am someone who appreciates animals and sees them as equal and my continued carnivorous conduct is wholly against my own judgment and represents a personal failing. You are right. Power to you.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

it's showing the reality of how terribly animals are treated and how much they suffer because of animal agriculture. I'm not really sure what to say; I still doubt that you're evil though.

I know how animals suffer, I just don't care. I played PETA's Pokémon Black and Blue game and thought it was funny also it made me crave McDonald's.

At the end of the day I'm no more evolved than a mindless animal myself. Just because I can push buttons on a glowing rock it doesn't elevate me above the other simple creatures on this planet. I probably will continue to feel good about sinking my teeth into the flesh of a corpse and relishing the taste as cooked blood drips through my mouth despite knowing that it originally came from something that probably felt intense pain and suffering throughout its whole existence. In a way, it's one of the few respites from my own suffering but that obviously doesn't make it okay either.

 

[wildflowers1996]

No I'm a prick, imo more people should admit to their own failings before heralding their own victimhood but this is beside the point, l too am someone who appreciates animals and sees them as equal and my continued carnivorous conduct is wholly against my own judgment and represents a personal failing. You are right. Power to you.

If it is a personal failing, and genuinely something you feel you have control over, then why not change? If you say "I can't make myself do it" then how is it a personal failing, if you have no control?

I know how animals suffer, I just don't care. I played PETA's Pokémon Black and Blue game and thought it was funny also it made me crave McDonald's.

At the end of the day I'm no more evolved than a mindless animal myself. Just because I can push buttons on a glowing rock it doesn't elevate me above the other simple creatures on this planet. I probably will continue to feel good about sinking my teeth into the flesh of a corpse and relishing the taste as cooked blood drips through my mouth despite knowing that it originally came from something that probably felt intense pain and suffering throughout its whole existence. In a way, it's one of the few respites from my own suffering but that obviously doesn't make it okay either.

can I ask - what is it that is a respite from your suffering? the taste of the meat? or do you enjoy that the animal suffered?

 

[WildAtHeart]

Because meat is delicious, it's regrettable the meat industry sure. But at the end of the day I still like meat, and will still eat it.

 

[wildflowers1996]

Because meat is delicious, it's regrettable the meat industry sure. But at the end of the day I still like meat, and will still eat it.

do you think enjoying the taste of something justifies the animals' suffering? do you know how intense the suffering can be?

 

[WildAtHeart]

do you think enjoying the taste of something justifies the animals' suffering? do you know how intense the suffering can be?

It doesn't justify it. And yes I know the suffering is immense.

 

[wildflowers1996]

It doesn't justify it. And yes I know the suffering is immense.

if it doesn't justify it, do you think you have an obligation to stop?

 

[alienfreak]

The suffering of animals caused by my diet bothers me deeply. I think about it often and feel guilty for it. At times i intended to stop eating meat for ethical reasons. But it is very hard for me and ive always had other things to deal with that are more urgent than learning how to change my diet. Even with a lot of meat i still struggle hard to maintain my weight; most of my life ive been underweight. Plant-based diets require eating a very large volume of food, i find, because they arent as calorie-dense, and i cant do it. I dont enjoy eating vegan/vegetarian food as much so that would make it harder to get enough calories. I want a high protein diet and that is hard. I also need to avoid oxalate to reduce kidney stone risks and that rules out a lot of plant-based foods (but not meat) so it becomes very restricted. All of this makes it simply too hard for me to deal with and too much of a sacrifice given my poor mental health situation.

I have other considerations too that are difficult to articulate. For example, I wish we could live more natural lifestyles and there shouldnt be so many humans. I wouldnt feel nearly as bad about eating animals that lived good lives that we hunted/raised ourselves (all of nature is 'kill or be killed' and such, but factory farms are hellish). I dont want to 'give in' to this current situation of 7+ billion humans in something like a horrific zoo eating industrial fake meat etc as the elites want. I dont know how to communcate this last idea well.

I remain conflicted about it.

 

[Chinaski]

if it doesn't justify it, do you think you have an obligation to stop?

Don't guilt trip. Know you're right, accept this, but also appreciate it's not high on priority. If browbeating people on here was effective I'd know by now because full communism would be implemented circa 2021.

 

[WildAtHeart]

if it doesn't justify it, do you think you have an obligation to stop?

No. Ik it sounds bad, probably because it is to have such a blinkered view of just - like meat… eat meat… ignore suffering, but I'm just not that bothered at the end of the day. Me not eating meat won't collapse the industry and I'm not saving any animal but not eating meat, they will die anyway/they are already penned in to get eaten anyway. I'll still eat meat :/

Don't guilt trip. Know you're right, accept this, but also appreciate it's not high on priority. If browbeating people on here was effective I'd know by now because full communism would be implemented circa 2021.

I'm not bothered lol, they are right at the end of the day and I'll admit that.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

can I ask - what is it that is a respite from your suffering? the taste of the meat? or do you enjoy that the animal suffered?

As I mentioned earlier, the suffering adds to the taste so it's both. Perhaps it's some primal instinct that longs to meet the savagery of the world with more savagery. Or maybe I'm just evil like I said.

 

[wildflowers1996]

The suffering of animals caused by my diet bothers me deeply. I think about it often and feel guilty for it. At times i intended to stop eating meat for ethical reasons. But it is very hard for me and ive always had other things to deal with that are more urgent than learning how to change my diet. Even with a lot of meat i still struggle hard to maintain my weight; most of my life ive been underweight. Plant-based diets require eating a very large volume of food, i find, because they arent as calorie-dense, and i cant do it. I dont enjoy eating vegan/vegetarian food as much so that would make it harder to get enough calories. I want a high protein diet and that is hard. I also need to avoid oxalate to reduce kidney stone risks and that rules out a lot of plant-based foods (but not meat) so it becomes very restricted. All of this makes it simply too hard for me to deal with and too much of a sacrifice given my poor mental health situation.

I have other considerations too that are difficult to articulate. For example, I wish we could live more natural lifestyles and there shouldnt be so many humans. I wouldnt feel nearly as bad about eating animals that lived good lives that we hunted/raised ourselves (all of nature is 'kill or be killed' and such, but factory farms are hellish). I dont want to 'give in' to this current situation of 7+ billion humans in something like a horrific zoo eating industrial fake meat etc as the elites want. I dont know how to communcate this last idea well.

I remain conflicted about it.

I do understand it's hard when your mental health is poor. My mental health is terrible and it definitely stops me doing things I feel I ought to be doing too.

I'm not quite sure I understand your last point - eating lab grown meat would mean a lot less suffering than eating "real" meat

 

[Chinaski]

I'm not bothered lol, they are right at the end of the day and I'll admit that.

To be clear l was speaking broadly and definitely not white-knighting on your behalf, l don't know you or give a fuck for your feelings. Their cause is a sound one but piety is not persuasive and my advice remains sound.

 

[WildAtHeart]

To be clear l was speaking broadly and definitely not white-knighting on your behalf, l don't know you or give a fuck for your feelings. Their cause is a sound one but piety is not persuasive and my advice remains sound.

Alr lol, why so aggressive? I misinterpreted what you said, that's all. Sorry.

 

[alienfreak]

I'm not quite sure I understand your last point - eating lab grown meat would mean a lot less suffering than eating "real" meat

Maybe i dont understand it either. I will say that things like lab-grown meat make me picture myself being a slave living in a dystopia under an oppressive government that has created a hell-world where people cant eat real food or live natural lifestyles, left eating industrial sludge. In theory something like lab-grown meat would be great but i am strongly confident that the reality would be horrific in some way, because thats always the way things go. It looks like meat will keep growing in cost until this does happen and meat will become a luxury item

 

[wildflowers1996]

Don't guilt trip. Know you're right, accept this, but also appreciate it's not high on priority. If browbeating people on here was effective I'd know by now because full communism would be implemented circa 2021.

it wasn't an intentional guilt trip, and I'm not making these arguments just for the pleasure of being "right" - there would be no point, I will always have terrible self esteem and know that I am incredibly flawed so being "right" isn't a reward for me. I'm doing it out of the tiny hope I might plant some seeds and someone might actually listen to me and change. Maybe they won't, especially not immediately, but I've seen it happen with other people

Maybe i dont understand it either. I will say that things like lab-grown meat make me picture myself being a slave living in a dystopia under an oppressive government that has created a hell-world where people cant eat real food or live natural lifestyles, left eating industrial sludge. In theory something like lab-grown meat would be great but i am strongly confident that the reality would be horrific in some way, because thats always the way things go. It looks like meat will keep growing in cost until this does happen and meat will become a luxury item

I feel I sort of understand - you could opt to eat neither, and eat plant based though

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I know how animals suffer, I just don't care. I played PETA's Pokémon Black and Blue game and thought it was funny also it made me crave McDonald's.

Mmm... Now I'm craving a McPikachu burger. I just want to stuff that juicy pikachu meat in my mouth mmmm...pika pika...

 

[wildflowers1996]

To be clear l was speaking broadly and definitely not white-knighting on your behalf, l don't know you or give a fuck for your feelings. Their cause is a sound one but piety is not persuasive and my advice remains sound.

I'm not pious or claiming to be morally better than anyone. I'm not. I've done some really crappy things

 

[lament.]

I actually eat vegan food pretty often and alot of it is good - I really do recommend trying a variety of plant based food for those who have never tried it before, but I could never go full vegan because 1, not tryna spend all that time and money specifically looking for vegan products in the case of non food items and 2, when it comes to food, stuff like fish, crustaceans and certain meat like bacon just tastes too good to give up.

 

[Chinaski]

Alr lol, why so aggressive? I misinterpreted what you said, that's all. Sorry.

That wasn't aggressive (lol?)

it wasn't an intentional guilt trip, and I'm not making these arguments just for the pleasure of being "right" - there would be no point, I will always have terrible self esteem and know that I am incredibly flawed so being "right" isn't a reward for me. I'm doing it out of the tiny hope I might plant some seeds and someone might actually listen to me and change. Maybe they won't, especially not immediately, but I've seen it happen with other people

I know this, again you're right, but you're probably in the wrong place if you're seeking persuade by way of hammering home the suffering of an animal. Firstly, nobody here gives a fuck for anyone but thenselves, this is the most obnoxiously selfish quarter of the internet, secondly any position you wish to state will not be enhanced by an argument which suggests those you seek to convince are doing a *bad* thing. I mean to be constructive with the latter point jsyk.