Rudi

Rudi

𝔐𝔬𝔯𝔦 𝔳𝔬𝔩𝔬 𝔰𝔢𝔡 𝔳𝔦𝔳𝔢𝔯𝔢 𝔳𝔬𝔩𝔬
Oct 15, 2024
104
I've attempted 4 times now and I'm, obviously, still not dead. And it pisses me off but at the same time im relieved?

The reason I haven't died is because I tried methods where I knew I'd have a chance of surviving because I'm so unsure if I want to actually ctb or not. I am quite relieved whenever I survive but at the same time I just wish it would be over and done with.

I'm so unsure if I should try recovering again, if I should give myself the chance of doing so, because I've tried a bunch of time and every time I try relapsed and it got worse than before. I don't wanna take the risk again, but what if I manage to recover and not relapse again?

There are times where I'm so happy to be alive but most of the time I just wish all this shit would end. Why can't I just be sure of what I wanna do? Why can't I just have the will to live or the will to die? I swear to god it makes me go insane.

I need advice so bad because I'm so fucking confused.
 
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Leiot

Leiot

Coming back as a cat
Oct 2, 2024
197
If you knew there was a chance of surviving then part of you wants to stay. I fight with that too. It sounds like you might have some BPD going on. Have you talked to anyone?

The hardest thing I ever did was walk into the VA and ask to see a shrink. I knew something was wrong but I couldn't figure it out. I was afraid they'd lock me up or some crap. But they didn't. The worst part were the meds. They don't do a great job explaining that you will feel differently when you take them. Different is scary as hell. When you take a med for something else that's fixing some problem but psych meds change who you are. At least that's how it feels. Then they tell you to be patient because it takes a while for them to kick in, but the side effects kick in immediately.

I've been on lamotrigine for a while now and it seems to be a decent med. I went through a bunch of them so if the first one doesn't work don't give up. I remember the first med I was ever on, Zoloft, has a side effect of light sensitivity. It wasn't what I would call 'sensitivity'. No, I felt like a freaking vampire whenever I went out into the sun. I could feel my skin burning. Didn't stay on that one very long. :sunglasses:

Anyway, hang in there and talk to someone if you want. And if you want to talk we're all here.
 
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Rudi

Rudi

𝔐𝔬𝔯𝔦 𝔳𝔬𝔩𝔬 𝔰𝔢𝔡 𝔳𝔦𝔳𝔢𝔯𝔢 𝔳𝔬𝔩𝔬
Oct 15, 2024
104
If you knew there was a chance of surviving then part of you wants to stay. I fight with that too. It sounds like you might have some BPD going on. Have you talked to anyone?

The hardest thing I ever did was walk into the VA and ask to see a shrink. I knew something was wrong but I couldn't figure it out. I was afraid they'd lock me up or some crap. But they didn't. The worst part were the meds. They don't do a great job explaining that you will feel differently when you take them. Different is scary as hell. When you take a med for something else that's fixing some problem but psych meds change who you are. At least that's how it feels. Then they tell you to be patient because it takes a while for them to kick in, but the side effects kick in immediately.

I've been on lamotrigine for a while now and it seems to be a decent med. I went through a bunch of them so if the first one doesn't work don't give up. I remember the first med I was ever on, Zoloft, has a side effect of light sensitivity. It wasn't what I would call 'sensitivity'. No, I felt like a freaking vampire whenever I went out into the sun. I could feel my skin burning. Didn't stay on that one very long. :sunglasses:

Anyway, hang in there and talk to someone if you want. And if you want to talk we're all here.

Yeah, I do kinda want to stay (????) but at the same time I wanna leave so bad, it's hella confusing.
I don't know if I have BPD or not, I never even thought about it to be honest, but that could be a possibility?

Do you recommend lamotrigine? Cause I feel like I should definitely start taking something before I go completely insane :,). I hope you're doing good with it! Hence you said its a decent med.

And thank you for having my back <3🙏
 
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Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
11,107
What would have to change in your life to increase the will to live? Is that sth you can achieve? Are there unfulfilled dreams that are achievable? You can answer those and similar questions to yourself.

Attempting with methods that are most likely top fail can increase your suffering - imo it's a myth that making ones personal situation worse makes it easier to CTB if that is what you had in mind.
 
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Rudi

Rudi

𝔐𝔬𝔯𝔦 𝔳𝔬𝔩𝔬 𝔰𝔢𝔡 𝔳𝔦𝔳𝔢𝔯𝔢 𝔳𝔬𝔩𝔬
Oct 15, 2024
104
What would have to change in your life to increase the will to live? Is that sth you can achieve? Are there unfulfilled dreams that are achievable? You can answer those and similar questions to yourself.

Attempting with methods that are most likely top fail can increase your suffering - imo it's a myth that making ones personal situation worse makes it easier to CTB if that is what you had in mind.
they have definitely increased my suffering but i realised that a little too late to the point where i did it over and over until i got to this point.

i believe there are some things i want to achieve, except i dont know if ill ever be able to do so, and I'll get even more disappointed if i dont and then I'll feel like shit that I didn't end it all sooner

im so sorry for being so overly pessimistic holy shit
 
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Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
11,107
they have definitely increased my suffering but i realised that a little too late to the point where i did it over and over until i got to this point.

i believe there are some things i want to achieve, except i dont know if ill ever be able to do so, and I'll get even more disappointed if i dont and then I'll feel like shit that I didn't end it all sooner

im so sorry for being so overly pessimistic holy shit
It's a vicious cycle and I can relate to it. We have to try sth and only afterwards we can know whether it was good or bad. You don't have to be sorry for being pessimistic. I'm pessimistic with so many things long before I even try them bc there's a chance this might fail again.

There won't be any change unless we do the first step - but the first step is always the hardest and we have to accept the fact that it might fail.
 
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Rudi

Rudi

𝔐𝔬𝔯𝔦 𝔳𝔬𝔩𝔬 𝔰𝔢𝔡 𝔳𝔦𝔳𝔢𝔯𝔢 𝔳𝔬𝔩𝔬
Oct 15, 2024
104
It's a vicious cycle and I can relate to it. We have to try sth and only afterwards we can know whether it was good or bad. You don't have to be sorry for being pessimistic. I'm pessimistic with so many things long before I even try them bc there's a chance this might fail again.

There won't be any change unless we do the first step - but the first step is always the hardest and we have to accept the fact that it might fail.
i wanna protest and keep saying stuff like that I'm definitely gonna fail and while I was just about to do that I realised how much I'm destroying myself. I feel like I don't give myself a single chance to improve, even though I should.

You're right, the first step is always the hardest step and I guess I'll have to take it if I wanna try and change and get out of this hellhole. It just sucks to know how long this is going to take.
I'm sorry that you can relate to this, I hope stuff gets better for you too and thank you, really.
 
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Leiot

Leiot

Coming back as a cat
Oct 2, 2024
197
Yeah, I do kinda want to stay (????) but at the same time I wanna leave so bad, it's hella confusing.
I don't know if I have BPD or not, I never even thought about it to be honest, but that could be a possibility?

Do you recommend lamotrigine? Cause I feel like I should definitely start taking something before I go completely insane :,). I hope you're doing good with it! Hence you said its a decent med.

And thank you for having my back <3🙏

I would talk to someone. Lamotrigine works for me but we're all different. Also I don't know if it might interact with anything else you might be taking. Or if you're not BP I don't know if it would work. This is really a 'get your doctor involved' kind of thing.

Also, keep in mind that all the meds do is kick you toward center. They don't fix anything. They're supposed to get us to a point where we can start thinking clearly about our condition and working on it. But we're all different so meds & therapy that work for me may not work for you.

There's an old term called wearing 'rose colored glasses'. It refered to someone who looked at everything all rosy and happy regardness of what happened to them. It takes whatever thoughts you have in your head and puts a positive spin on them to make them sound better. Depression is like wearing shit-colored glasses. Every thought gets a negative spin; "they're just saying that to be nice; they really don't like me", that sort of thing. Bipolar means we cycle through rose, clear and shit colored glasses. Sometimes within a few hours. Or less. Or more. Depends on the person.

The meds help us take the glasses off. That's it. The bad thoughts are still there. We still need to work through them. And it's a long road. But everyone here has your back.

Take care -
 
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Rudi

Rudi

𝔐𝔬𝔯𝔦 𝔳𝔬𝔩𝔬 𝔰𝔢𝔡 𝔳𝔦𝔳𝔢𝔯𝔢 𝔳𝔬𝔩𝔬
Oct 15, 2024
104
I would talk to someone. Lamotrigine works for me but we're all different. Also I don't know if it might interact with anything else you might be taking. Or if you're not BP I don't know if it would work. This is really a 'get your doctor involved' kind of thing.

Also, keep in mind that all the meds do is kick you toward center. They don't fix anything. They're supposed to get us to a point where we can start thinking clearly about our condition and working on it. But we're all different so meds & therapy that work for me may not work for you.

There's an old term called wearing 'rose colored glasses'. It refered to someone who looked at everything all rosy and happy regardness of what happened to them. It takes whatever thoughts you have in your head and puts a positive spin on them to make them sound better. Depression is like wearing shit-colored glasses. Every thought gets a negative spin; "they're just saying that to be nice; they really don't like me", that sort of thing. Bipolar means we cycle through rose, clear and shit colored glasses. Sometimes within a few hours. Or less. Or more. Depends on the person.

The meds help us take the glasses off. That's it. The bad thoughts are still there. We still need to work through them. And it's a long road. But everyone here has your back.

Take care -
I think even the kicking me towards center thing is more than enough right now haha :,)

yea i heard of that term! and now that i think of it, it makes sense. depression really is something thats like that, and its even worse if you're already a pessmistic person. i guess taking meds that will help me take those glasses off will actually help me quite a lot, knowing myself.
And thanks for somewhat explaining how being bipolar is! i kind of had a hard time understand what its like to be like that, no matter how much research i did :,)
Thanks dude 🫂
 
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wren-briar

wrenbriar.gitlab.io
Jul 1, 2024
167
Then they tell you to be patient because it takes a while for them to kick in, but the side effects kick in immediately.

I've been on lamotrigine for a while now and it seems to be a decent med.

For me, side effects normally kicked in fairly quickly, however ...

(a) I started to develop cognitive issues years after having been on Buproprion. Thankfully, stopping and/or reducing the dosage also drastically reduced that side effect (at the cost of my mood and energy).

(b) The single most insidious side effects from a single medication, that I ever experienced, took a couple of months to fully develop. As it happened, there was a lot of external bad stuff happening in my life at the time, so I didn't realize that almost all of the internal changes (e.g. drastically increasing cognitive issues, drastically more extreme mood changes, drastic increase in frequency and types of migraines) were related to a medication that I had started just prior to all of the external shit, and that medication happened to be Lamotrigine. (fwiw, I'm not the only one to have such side effects [1], [2]).

It sounds like you might have some BPD going on.

As indicated by a later post, Leiot appears to be talking about "bipolar".

"BPD" is commonly the abbreviation for "borderline personality disorder".

These are two very different conditions.

Lamotrigine works for me but we're all different.

Yes we are!

When it comes to psych meds, it's absolutely critical to understand that we're each our own guinea pig!

I wish there was a definitive list of all possible side effects of all psych meds and that before and while taking any psych meds there was a relatively quick and easy way to track our own ratings for each of those side effects, and then have the system flag when symptoms are likely to be side effects of medications. (for more ideas related to this, see https://wrenbriar.gitlab.io/#Quick_Automated_Symptom_Assessments)

Also, be aware that medications can interact with each other, to include amplifying side effects. (e.g. I don't know exactly how bad my cognition was impacted by just the lamotrigine because I was still on buproprion at the time. I do know that together the two of them absolutely destroyed my cognition and when I was subsequently put on a non-psych med that had possible psych side effects, the cognitive impacts went absolutely critically horrific!)

This is far from perfect, but you should also ensure that your meds don't exceed an "Anticholinergic Burden" score of 3 or more - https://www.acbcalc.com/
 
Leiot

Leiot

Coming back as a cat
Oct 2, 2024
197
Oops. sorry about that. I thought BPD meant Bi Polar Disorder. :blarg:
 
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wren-briar

wrenbriar.gitlab.io
Jul 1, 2024
167
Oops. sorry about that. I thought BPD meant Bi Polar Disorder. :blarg:

I made the same mistake for a while. It doesn't help that a very cursory glance, they can sorta sound like similar conditions. However, being bipolar myself, while dating someone with BPD, the distinctions became painfully clear.
 
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Rudi

Rudi

𝔐𝔬𝔯𝔦 𝔳𝔬𝔩𝔬 𝔰𝔢𝔡 𝔳𝔦𝔳𝔢𝔯𝔢 𝔳𝔬𝔩𝔬
Oct 15, 2024
104
I made the same mistake for a while. It doesn't help that a very cursory glance, they can sorta sound like similar conditions. However, being bipolar myself, while dating someone with BPD, the distinctions became painfully clear.
may i ask what the differences are? im not really educated on bipolar disorder and bpd :,)
For me, side effects normally kicked in fairly quickly, however ...

(a) I started to develop cognitive issues years after having been on Buproprion. Thankfully, stopping and/or reducing the dosage also drastically reduced that side effect (at the cost of my mood and energy).

(b) The single most insidious side effects from a single medication, that I ever experienced, took a couple of months to fully develop. As it happened, there was a lot of external bad stuff happening in my life at the time, so I didn't realize that almost all of the internal changes (e.g. drastically increasing cognitive issues, drastically more extreme mood changes, drastic increase in frequency and types of migraines) were related to a medication that I had started just prior to all of the external shit, and that medication happened to be Lamotrigine. (fwiw, I'm not the only one to have such side effects [1], [2]).



As indicated by a later post, Leiot appears to be talking about "bipolar".

"BPD" is commonly the abbreviation for "borderline personality disorder".

These are two very different conditions.



Yes we are!

When it comes to psych meds, it's absolutely critical to understand that we're each our own guinea pig!

I wish there was a definitive list of all possible side effects of all psych meds and that before and while taking any psych meds there was a relatively quick and easy way to track our own ratings for each of those side effects, and then have the system flag when symptoms are likely to be side effects of medications. (for more ideas related to this, see https://wrenbriar.gitlab.io/#Quick_Automated_Symptom_Assessments)

Also, be aware that medications can interact with each other, to include amplifying side effects. (e.g. I don't know exactly how bad my cognition was impacted by just the lamotrigine because I was still on buproprion at the time. I do know that together the two of them absolutely destroyed my cognition and when I was subsequently put on a non-psych med that had possible psych side effects, the cognitive impacts went absolutely critically horrific!)

This is far from perfect, but you should also ensure that your meds don't exceed an "Anticholinergic Burden" score of 3 or more - https://www.acbcalc.com/
I have so much to say yet I'm speechless - this is genuinely so helpful. Thank you! 🫂
 
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wren-briar

wrenbriar.gitlab.io
Jul 1, 2024
167
I have so much to say yet I'm speechless - this is genuinely so helpful. Thank you!

Glad to help!

These are painful lessons that I had to learn the hard way and if sharing what I've learned helps others to avoid such horrific emotional pain, then there's at least some benefit to having gone through such pain.

may i ask what the differences are? im not really educated on bipolar disorder and bpd :,)

The somewhat confusing commonality is unjustifiable emotional swings.

There are two big differences that I'll refer to as the emotional and the scale.

For someone with bipolar, the scale tends to global. If you're depressed, it's about everything (e.g. Leiot's anology of wearing shit-tinted glasses), if you're hypomanic or manic it's about everything (e.g. Leiot's analogy of rose-colored glasses).

For someone with bipolar, the emotional variance tends to center around mood and interpretations of self, events, and the world.

The low end is depression, in both mood and energy.

The high end is manic episodes, again, in mood and energy, and these are often debilitating or damaging (for example people will spend an inordinate amount of money in manic phases for no justifiable reason).

There are also less extreme high ends known as hypomanic episodes, which I can best describe as having genuinely amazing productivity and energy. Fwiw, if I could live in a permanent state of hypomania, I absolutely would!

(Note that if you're ever accused of being on speed when you aren't, you're probably experiencing a hypomanic or manic episode.)

Some people bounce between the extremes within short periods of time (e.g. will experience extremes within a single day), this can be referred to as "rapid cycling". While others may experience almost exclusively depression, and only have a single manic episode in their entire lifetime.

Of particular relevance to the broader conversation, people who suffer from bipolar also tend to have less typical, atypical, or outright paradoxical reactions to medications.

In my case, I've had mostly depression, with hypomanic episodes after all but my first and last surgeries, and somewhat randomly, often times every few months from when I was a pre-teen until I started testosterone (I'm transmasculine), but there was a roughly six month period when I had them almost weekly.

My single manic attack was after a really basic knee surgery. For three days I didn't sleep and my mind was bouncing around so much that I couldn't complete multi-word sentences for that entire period. It was so bad, I literally couldn't go to the bathroom without my mother basically making me follow absurdly simple steps ("unbutton your pants" which I did and immediately got distracted again, "unzip your pants" again, I did it and again, I immediately got distracted). Thankfully, after subsequent surgeries I only experienced hypomania. I came to suspect that it was because of the types and amount of pain meds. During my next to last surgery (on the same knee), this was basically confirmed as I refused pain meds in favor of just keeping my knee packed in ice; unfortunately, it was summertime and there was a power outage, so when the ice ran out and I couldn't stand the pain anymore, I broke down and took some morphine, about 30-45 minutes later, I literally had so much energy that I physically couldn't stay in the bed; I was about to run (and I do mean RUN around the hospital -on crutches, no less), thankfully the nurses caught me and convinced me to race myself through the halls in a wheelchair; they made a point of telling me that they'd never seen any patient -not even remotely- so energetic. During my last surgery (for GI issues), the doctors did nerve blocks so that I simply wouldn't need pain meds and, low and behold, I didn't have any mania or hypomania episodes.





For someone with borderline personality disorder (BPD), the scale only tends to center around individual people, while the emotional variance is seeing that individual as almost god-like (e.g. wearing rose-colored glasses, but only when looking at specific people) or demon-like (e.g. shit-colored glasses, but again, only for specific people).

I'm not sure what the rate of change is like for the typical person suffering from BPD, but with my ex, she mostly saw me as god-like, but every month or two, there would be several consecutive days where she only saw me as demon-like. In her case, she simply appeared to me to be extremely moody during these phases, and a week or two afterwards, she'd give me some unexpected, but very personal gift (e.g. a hand quilted blanket in my favorite color; a hand made dog jacket for one of my pups that had an emblem on it which is really important to me). I only learned after we broke up that, during the "demon-like" phases, she had told all of her friends and many of our acquaintances some truly horrific lies about me. (I only learned about those horrific lies when the next person she dated reached out to me and we started comparing notes. My ex had also stalked me after our breakup, but she had outright been caught in the act of breaking into the subsequent partner's house. So the subsequent partner had been advised to reach out the me in case there was a lawsuit to see if I would testify.)
 
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