Discussion "I had it hard and got out so you can too!"

[DoNotLet2]

Venting/Discussion. A spontaneous thread. And yes I'm going to cuss I'm impolite.
tl;dr: I'm annoyed by people judging each other and jumping from one edge to another...

You must have heard lots of stories that were basically like "my life was hell but I got out so everybody can too". I made such thread once but I think I have to say it again. No. Maybe you can get out. I believe that you can analyze your situation yourself best. People don't pay attention to details. Sometimes one thing that might seem minor changes your life vastly for better or for worse. You might get lucky and survive hell thanks to one minor thing. That's why I'm jolly mad at people who say "I had hard life but see!!" and "suicide is never a solution because there is always a possibility of living it through". You might think that such story would warm me up but I feel accused of not trying hard enough. I hate playing down the importance of your own personality. It's not like you can magically become more extroverted, calmer, more intelligent, wiser overnight. Someone very attractive and very intelligent will have it easier to get out of hell. And I'm not diminishing their suffering. Life is like a math test. You can perform well but it doesn't change the fact that it was a hard one. "But I don't want to keep comforting you it's annoying."

BALANCE FUCKING BALANCE FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!

^ and this one sentence equivalent could be the entire thread because there is no need to say anything more. There are thousands things in between pitying someone and demanding them to be perfect instantly. You guys get the problem. You know what I mean. Why can't we just treat people normally with respect to their special needs? Why people can't think "she's (or he or someone of other gender/non binary) normal but she has some additional needs that need to be satisfied in order for her to function"? LIKE WHY!!!

So yeah that's my vent about people who don't understand us.

 

[throughtheglass]

Oh, another instance of having zero empathy towards people who deal with mental illness. I remember back in the 4th grade, when I was bullied by my classmates and when I snapped back, our supervising teacher attacked me and told me that I should be grateful that I'm just a kid. The problem itself hasn't been resolved and fucked me mentally.

Now, my ex friends told me that everyone suffer during the pandemic. I agree but for fuck's sake - I am treated like a fucking leper by the society. Nobody (especially me) will get me out of this shithole because my life is fucking awful in every aspect. You won't get how hard it is for me to even get up.

 

[Average Joe]

I feel when people say things like "if I can do it anyone can". It's the most invalidating thing you could say.
like yeah it's great that you've coped and managed and dragged yourself out of hell but just because you did it doesn't mean that everyone can.

Its pretty fucking annoying, I also think that someone feel obligated to try and say something in hope that it will just fix everything and they can feel good about themselves

 

[Superdeterminist]

"I did it so you can too" is like to saying "my eyes are blue so yours can be too". It's a failure to recognise that we don't choose who we are in each moment. It assumes the existence of free will, a phenomenon that's logically impossible. Either our behaviour is determined by prior causes (neurons>atoms>etc) or it's random - there are no other choices, and both of these are outside our control. A mix of the two adds no freedom whatsoever, either.

However, unlike eye colour (generally), who you are can change. But, if it does change, you weren't responsible for that change, fundamentally. "I did it so you can too" can absolutely impact people's psychology in a positive way, so I don't mean to suggest that it can't be useful. But again, whatever effect it has on someone's mind, was nobody's choice.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I'm waiting for someone who can honestly say something like this to me and genuinely apply it to my own life. Often when people do get out of misery they almost 100% of the time just got lucky and something happened which gave them the confidence or epiphany or whatever they needed to get themselves out of it.

Well world, as I said, I'm waiting for my grand epiphany, or at least for someone who lives a life exactly like mine which I can use as a walkthrough. I don't care about the people who just used their minds to get out of it, that's just not going to work for me because I'm an idiot.

 

[DoNotLet2]

Oh, another instance of having zero empathy towards people who deal with mental illness. I remember back in the 4th grade, when I was bullied by my classmates and when I snapped back, our supervising teacher attacked me and told me that I should be grateful that I'm just a kid. The problem itself hasn't been resolved and fucked me mentally.

Now, my ex friends told me that everyone suffer during the pandemic. I agree but for fuck's sake - I am treated like a fucking leper by the society. Nobody (especially me) will get me out of this shithole because my life is fucking awful in every aspect. You won't get how hard it is for me to even get up.

First of all you're not alone though I know it's not a comforting. It happens in schools all the time I know a youtuber who talks about that a lot. Teachers don't feel like solving problems so instead they blame either both sides or the "bad guy". It's dumb but it happens :(
Secondly I was supposed to make a thread about that but I did about this instead. It is weird because now everybody is complaining "2020 is so bad be kind to yourself" and we have been feeling bad since many years. It's like "oh relatable but not relatable". It's like we're not that alienated anymore yet we're still very alienated and far from being understood.

I feel when people say things like "if I can do it anyone can". It's the most invalidating thing you could say.
like yeah it's great that you've coped and managed and dragged yourself out of hell but just because you did it doesn't mean that everyone can.

Its pretty fucking annoying, I also think that someone feel obligated to try and say something in hope that it will just fix everything and they can feel good about themselves

Yup it is so invalidating and I hate it too.
Yeah it is hand to find the right balance between saying nothing and ignoring the person and saying "IT ALL WILL BE OKAY!!!".

"I did it so you can too" is like to saying "my eyes are blue so yours can be too". It's a failure to recognise that we don't choose who we are in each moment. It assumes the existence of free will, a phenomenon that's logically impossible. Either our behaviour is determined by prior causes (neurons>atoms>etc) or it's random - there are no other choices, and both of these are outside our control. A mix of the two adds no freedom whatsoever, either.

However, unlike eye colour (generally), who you are can change. But, if it does change, you weren't responsible for that change, fundamentally. "I did it so you can too" can absolutely impact people's psychology in a positive way, so I don't mean to suggest that it can't be useful. But again, whatever effect it has on someone's mind, was nobody's choice.

Tbh I'm not that radical I believe that we have a little of free will and we can make some decisions. I believe people control their lives in varying degrees. Some can change their lives drastically overnight and for example give up a job and start traveling. However, many of us have very little control of their life if not nothing at all. We're not the same and that's what the thread is all about.

I dislike such stories because they aren't practical in almost all cases. I haven't heard a precise story "I lived in hell so firstly I did that and then I did another thing that was....". Most of the time it's like "I was in hell I worked very hard and now everything is fine". They might be positive (but that's idea for another thread) but in my opinion they are useless.

I'm waiting for someone who can honestly say something like this to me and genuinely apply it to my own life. Often when people do get out of misery they almost 100% of the time just got lucky and something happened which gave them the confidence or epiphany or whatever they needed to get themselves out of it.

Well world, as I said, I'm waiting for my grand epiphany, or at least for someone who lives a life exactly like mine which I can use as a walkthrough. I don't care about the people who just used their minds to get out of it, that's just not going to work for me because I'm an idiot.

Well you basically said what I meant there are no 2 persons with same lives. Even identical twins are different. It's about the details that change your entire life.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Tbh I'm not that radical I believe that we have a little of free will and we can make some decisions. I believe people control their lives in varying degrees. Some can change their lives drastically overnight and for example give up a job and start traveling. However, many of us have very little control of their life if not nothing at all. We're not the same and that's what the thread is all about.

Indeed some people's lives change dramatically - people can change and their can lives change. But where do those changes come from? If someone suddenly adopts a radical new belief that transforms their life, why did they adopt that belief? To say that they "freely chose to" is to say that there's no deeper layer to reality than humans - our wills are fundamental and not composed of/determined by/affected by anything. It's true that people do make decisions, and people do steer the direction of their lives with the decisions they make, but the decisions themselves are never free.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

It comes across as an ignorant attitude to have because it dismisses the suffering that a person is going through, and maybe with some individuals this is intentional. To say that someone else must push through their pain because you did with yours in the past, is very similar to the saying: "Well I had it hard when I was your age, so you should not have it easy either!". It is a form of Crab Bucket mentality.

 

[TAW122]

I hate it when people say that. It's tied to the fallacy of relative privation as it appeals to worse problems in order to dismiss said person's problems as being invalid. It's one of the most invalidating statements ever said by pro-lifists and similar people. All pain and suffering is valid, regardless of whether one has it better/worse than another. Finally, the people who say that are just "projecting" their stance onto you and I too, get really annoyed by them too.

 

[http-410]

I agree to OP.

This are reddit mental health subreddits or forums in a nutshell.

It's the same garbage advice as "just cut out gluten/dairy/whatever" or "exercise more".

Fortunately, I've never (or rarely) met people who give those shitty advice irl. Since I lost hope of recovery, I no longer read such success stories. I realized that it never did me any good, put me under pressure and can be rather harmful - also monetarily. There is no panacea. Some people are simply doomed.

 

[_Kaira_]

Someone I knew was apparently depressed and suicidal. He went to this school program that brainwashed him with toxic positivity, now he thinks he was magically cured. Like good for him, truly it's good he doesn't feel so negative anymore. But since he went through that, he forces his opinions down my throat and thinks it would 100% work for me too, since they (in his words) convinced him he was ok, and shouldn't feel sad.

"They helped me, I'm sure they can help you too." Yeah my several other therapists thought they would be able to help as well. F*ck 'em I say.

"yOu'Re NoT rEaLlY tRyInG tHoUgH."

 

[DoNotLet2]

Indeed some people's lives change dramatically - people can change and their can lives change. But where do those changes come from? If someone suddenly adopts a radical new belief that transforms their life, why did they adopt that belief? To say that they "freely chose to" is to say that there's no deeper layer to reality than humans - our wills are fundamental and not composed of/determined by/affected by anything. It's true that people do make decisions, and people do steer the direction of their lives with the decisions they make, but the decisions themselves are never free.

I mean yeah we are almost never free but I don't want it to use it as an excuse. I should bear my responsibilities. And I don't believe we have literally no choices at all I think they are very very limited but they are there.

It comes across as an ignorant attitude to have because it dismisses the suffering that a person is going through, and maybe with some individuals this is intentional. To say that someone else must push through their pain because you did with yours in the past, is very similar to the saying: "Well I had it hard when I was your age, so you should not have it easy either!". It is a form of Crab Bucket mentality.

And the ignorance is the thing I struggle the most to understand. It's kind of offtopic but yeah that's one of the difficulties I face in my life. Of course it depends on my interactions with people. I struggle to understand people with lower cognitive abilities than me and that's why I'm annoyed at "others have it worse" because "why don't you understand it's wrong to say so".

I hate it when people say that. It's tied to the fallacy of relative privation as it appeals to worse problems in order to dismiss said person's problems as being invalid. It's one of the most invalidating statements ever said by pro-lifists and similar people. All pain and suffering is valid, regardless of whether one has it better/worse than another. Finally, the people who say that are just "projecting" their stance onto you and I too, get really annoyed by them too.

The question is are they dumb guys or are they against us? I'm not sure or maybe it's both?

I agree to OP.

This are reddit mental health subreddits or forums in a nutshell.

It's the same garbage advice as "just cut out gluten/dairy/whatever" or "exercise more".

Fortunately, I've never (or rarely) met people who give those shitty advice irl. Since I lost hope of recovery, I no longer read such success stories. I realized that it never did me any good, put me under pressure and can be rather harmful - also monetarily. There is no panacea. Some people are simply doomed.

Yeah why are they so shy in real life? If there are right and we're the wrong why won't they simply stand up before our real eyes? Maybe it's because they aren't right so they aren't confident enough to fight for they believe in.

Someone I knew was apparently depressed and suicidal. He went to this school program that brainwashed him with toxic positivity, now he thinks he was magically cured. Like good for him, truly it's good he doesn't feel so negative anymore. But since he went through that, he forces his opinions down my throat and thinks it would 100% work for me too, since they (in his words) convinced him he was ok, and shouldn't feel sad.

"They helped me, I'm sure they can help you too." Yeah my several other therapists thought they would be able to help as well. F*ck 'em I say.

"yOu'Re NoT rEaLlY tRyInG tHoUgH."

Oh no brainwashing is the worst. It's essentially losing the freedom.

 

[AutoTap]

Yes very few people who don't suffer from mental or physical illnesses severely understand what we go through.

 

[the_final_countdown]

Sometimes I think about all the pain and shame Stephen Hawking went through. He didn't talk about it, but he probably experienced a lot of symptoms, painful, aching sensations all his life.

I know it's possible to endure great suffering and still live a meaningful life. I don't want to though. I fear it.

 

[lost_soul83]

I feel when people say things like "if I can do it anyone can". It's the most invalidating thing you could say.
like yeah it's great that you've coped and managed and dragged yourself out of hell but just because you did it doesn't mean that everyone can.

Its pretty fucking annoying, I also think that someone feel obligated to try and say something in hope that it will just fix everything and they can feel good about themselves

Thank you! I totally agree! Everyone has to live their own life and each individual person is only able to handle so fucking much! Just because I can handle it, doesn't mean you can and I shouldn't pretend to understand how awful your life is and what you have to go through. Everyone should just take a step back and be supportive, not judgmental of one another. I'll get off of my soap box now, sorry.

 

[WornOutLife]

Oh boy, I've heard those words so many times!

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

Everytime someone says this, I have to wonder if some circumstance outside of their control resolved itself, allowing the individual to have more resources or an improved environment that would make life their more tolerable. Rarely are things in this world truly malleable by our decisions. A lot of it happens by chance.

Someone else mentioned that it's just the relative privation fallacy at play, and I'm inclined to agree with them. People tend to downplay suffering because they can't fathom it happening in their own circle/want to protect their worldview that the universe is just and fair.

It also gives some individuals a sense of motivation when they see someone worse off continuing to plod on through life. A thought process that revolves around, "Well if he has it so bad, then clearly I have nothing to complain about. I should be happy because at least I'm not that guy! " Textbook relative privation fallacy.

It's great that some people's situations improve, but it's not so great when they try to extrapolate that to other people's struggles, especially when the circumstances are dissimilar more often than not. I don't think people can really understand unless they've been through the exact same problem themselves.

When people say these things, they act like one's circumstances can be controlled through sheer mental fortitude and perseverance. Like I said before, this is really not the case for most of us. I will be living with chronic illness the rest of my life. Things will not improve unless a miracle happens.

I am more likely to win the lottery than I am to discover a real treatment for chronic fatigue syndrome. I understand they say these things to try to motivate us, but it comes off as horribly invalidating and shows a lack of understanding and empathy when they think every single problem can be solved.

 

[262653]

What frustrates me to no end is that people who "got out" and demonstrate fallacious judgement are the ones who "get out", who succeed, persevere, withstand, triumph in the face of adversity.

Also, I think it's a paradox of free will, at least one of them. Even if it doesn't exist, someone who believes in it would be more active, more motivated (through frustration, shame, guilt over having power over your own destiny and yet doing so far nothing sufficient to deal with misfortunes) to do something about the situation. I get the feeling that in these occasions I have to choose between being honest with myself and feeling better, and as somehow who holds both in high regard, I'm not enthusiastic about making such choices at all.