Venting I found out an ex friend was a pedophile

[Jinnberg]

Two months ago I found out one of my friends was a pedophile and I'm struggling with the idea of me being friends with someone so vile and not even knowing.

The mere existence of such awful people makes me want to hurl myself off the nearest building, the urge just gets stronger every week.

There aren't any buildings high enough with roof access where I live unfortunately, I feel trapped.

He was a normal guy, he was kind, he was just, your average Joe. Or maybe he wasn't, maybe im just easily manipulated! I don't even know anymore!

But what I do know is, he's a sick and manipulative bastard.

I had cut contact with my friend group a month prior to that because things just didn't feel right. The unspoken tension between the 3 of them was just too much for me. I was also just too depressed to interact with anyone.

I cut them all out, but I still cared about them, even though I didn't want to.

They never outright said what was going on, but I still felt it.

A few months earlier we were playing video games together after work and just in general, having an okay time as pals.

And after I left the group, everyone was at each other's throats. I never saw myself as being the glue that kept everything together, but I guess I was.

It started out as petty drama from what I was told, then it spiraled into something awful.

I'll spare you the details, but, they found real and drawn C////P on his computer (mostly real children) gigabytes of it

He's not in jail or anything because he ran off somewhere before the cops arrived.

I'm so fucking angry at myself and at that thing that doesn't even quality for being human.

I don't know what to do, I don't want to care about these people, but we knew each other for so long. I'm disgusted with his actions, but there's a part of me that still cares. I hate him so much.

It's been two months, but I just can't get over it. Sometimes I blame myself and I don't even know why.

Maybe I could have prevented him from getting this bad, maybe I could have tied him down while my friend was calling the cops so he wouldn't have gotten away, the list goes on really.

Sorry if I don't respond to anything, I'm just so tired.

 

[lofticries]

Please do not bring on guilt that doesn't belong to you in the first place. You had no part in his disgusting actions or thoughts. Some ppl(actually a lot) are just wolves in sheep's clothing. The friendship with you might have been real but that doesn't excuse him of taking part in the rape of a child by consuming those images willfully.

I think you need to give yourself some time to heal because discovering something as horrible as that about a friend is comparable to the death of one. Even worse imo.

 

[ContinuousJump]

I have no idea what is best...? Can you find and speak to an expert? Maybe a therapist or a 12-step or other support group is out there or online that would know more...? I know are many sex addict groups, a friend-of-a-friend was quite open about her need to go to one and it really seemed to help her. I'M SURE they would help you with advice—if you can the right person to ask.

Although this is one of the most repugnant crimes, I imagine the fundamental problem is similar to a drugs addiction: If he were a meth addict, would you be there to support him? Unfortunately, many addictions are very difficult to overcome and the success rates are not too good.

Aren't there "chemical castration" options too? I know that sounds barbaric, but could be very helpful for recovery.

"Being there" for him may help him "recover". If you can help stop even one violation, you will be doing a great thing (for the victim AND your friend). But, he has to get in treatment and "face the music". I expect things will be very bad/lonely for him if he becomes a convicted sex offender.

In the end, you need to look out for your own health first. You are in no way contaminated/a bad person due to whatever he did...

 

[SleepDealer]

I understand being conflicted.

Gigabytes of that is beyond shocking. I'm sure there are some normal people who have gigs of porn, but they're outliers. I just feel like I've never heard of a ped who only had a couple images. The ones I have (regrettably) known myself were all very obsessive and full of excuses. Always about them and their desires, never about the victims.

I wish no person ever had those kinds of desires. I think saving those images - knowing full well that children are abused in order for such content to exist - is incredibly disgusting and selfish. I'm convinced that those who create the content are evil. Yet, I'm not sure that they're ALL inherently evil. A lot of people don't view peds as people but others will assure you that a lot of them are just normal people with strange and unfortunate desires who would never hurt anyone. I don't know what I believe, but life is rarely black and white, so... Like I said, I understand being conflicted.

At this point I'm just rambling because these people have always been so hard for me to understand, and I spend entirely too much time agonizing over how much humanity disgusts me. That shit is half the reason I want out of here.

Either way, there's no reason to blame yourself. We rarely know what to do when we're in a state of shock, and who wouldn't be overwhelmed after discovering something like that? The average person can't be expected to know what to do in such extreme situations.

 

[Gaybonez]

Two months ago I found out one of my friends was a pedophile and I'm struggling with the idea of me being friends with someone so vile and not even knowing.

The mere existence of such awful people makes me want to hurl myself off the nearest building, the urge just gets stronger every week.

There aren't any buildings high enough with roof access where I live unfortunately, I feel trapped.

He was a normal guy, he was kind, he was just, your average Joe. Or maybe he wasn't, maybe im just easily manipulated! I don't even know anymore!

But what I do know is, he's a sick and manipulative bastard.

I had cut contact with my friend group a month prior to that because things just didn't feel right. The unspoken tension between the 3 of them was just too much for me. I was also just too depressed to interact with anyone.

I cut them all out, but I still cared about them, even though I didn't want to.

They never outright said what was going on, but I still felt it.

A few months earlier we were playing video games together after work and just in general, having an okay time as pals.

And after I left the group, everyone was at each other's throats. I never saw myself as being the glue that kept everything together, but I guess I was.

It started out as petty drama from what I was told, then it spiraled into something awful.

I'll spare you the details, but, they found real and drawn C////P on his computer (mostly real children) gigabytes of it

He's not in jail or anything because he ran off somewhere before the cops arrived.

I'm so fucking angry at myself and at that thing that doesn't even quality for being human.

I don't know what to do, I don't want to care about these people, but we knew each other for so long. I'm disgusted with his actions, but there's a part of me that still cares. I hate him so much.

It's been two months, but I just can't get over it. Sometimes I blame myself and I don't even know why.

Maybe I could have prevented him from getting this bad, maybe I could have tied him down while my friend was calling the cops so he wouldn't have gotten away, the list goes on really.

Sorry if I don't respond to anything, I'm just so tired.

I mean. You have no idea how difficult that is to deal with. And it's better than touching a child.

 

[Snake of Eden]

I too found out about an ex friend was a pedophile on the news. It was very shocking as we lost contact after we both moved away. I get goosebumps just thinking about it. Terrible

 

[EOL4ME]

Yeah, being attracted to kids is not a problem for me (fortunately), but I also don't usually categorize peoples' level of relative vileness based on life choices or sin(s). Agree it's bad, and so sad for the innocents ....... I just can't marginalize based on my personal views or cast stones.

 

[SleepDealer]

I mean. You have no idea how difficult that is to deal with. And it's better than touching a child.

Let's not pretend that sourcing and viewing such material is a victimless crime. Supply and demand, need I say more?

 

[EOL4ME]

Let's not pretend that sourcing and viewing such material is a victimless crime. Supply and demand, need I say more?

Not sure I understand the "supply and demand" part.

 

[Makko]

Not sure I understand the "supply and demand" part.

If there is demand for a certain type of porn, there will be those who create and supply it. There wouldn't be child porn if there was no demand for it.

He was a normal guy, he was kind, he was just, your average Joe. Or maybe he wasn't, maybe im just easily manipulated! I don't even know anymore!

Your taste for entertainment is just one part of your life. Serial killers typically live normal lives too and are appreciated by their communities, the only difference between them and "normal guys" is that they prefer to spend their evenings murdering rather than watching Netflix.

 

[Ednospatient]

Don't ctb because of someone elses actions, please.

 

[Beau]

Let's not pretend that sourcing and viewing such material is a victimless crime. Supply and demand, need I say more?

It is only victimless if it doesn't involve real children being filmed.

It's been two months, but I just can't get over it. Sometimes I blame myself and I don't even know why.

You are not responsible for his actions, and you knew nothing about them anyway. Give yourself a break.

Viewing this material may actually prevent child molestation. So as bad as it is, maybe your friend was trying to cope with his problem by using the lesser of two evils.

 

[NaughtyGirl]

Unpopular take but...

Would you still write this post in the same way if it turned out your friend had a brain tumour that was responsible for his pedophilia like in this case?

If not why?

And do you think it matters whether a person does something because of one easily identifiable, clear cause that's out of their control, or because of 1000 smaller causes, none of which clear or obvious, but which combined result in the exact same outcome and all of which are equally beyond someone's control?

And if you answered both questions with "no" then well, are you sure you actually hate this person and think he really is a vile, sick bastard?

 

[Ch92921]

Pedophile does not equal child molester!

 

[Mr2005]

People are complicated. They're not just one thing

 

[deadverysoon]

Two months ago I found out one of my friends was a pedophile and I'm struggling with the idea of me being friends with someone so vile and not even knowing.

The mere existence of such awful people makes me want to hurl myself off the nearest building, the urge just gets stronger every week.

There aren't any buildings high enough with roof access where I live unfortunately, I feel trapped.

He was a normal guy, he was kind, he was just, your average Joe. Or maybe he wasn't, maybe im just easily manipulated! I don't even know anymore!

But what I do know is, he's a sick and manipulative bastard.

I had cut contact with my friend group a month prior to that because things just didn't feel right. The unspoken tension between the 3 of them was just too much for me. I was also just too depressed to interact with anyone.

I cut them all out, but I still cared about them, even though I didn't want to.

They never outright said what was going on, but I still felt it.

A few months earlier we were playing video games together after work and just in general, having an okay time as pals.

And after I left the group, everyone was at each other's throats. I never saw myself as being the glue that kept everything together, but I guess I was.

It started out as petty drama from what I was told, then it spiraled into something awful.

I'll spare you the details, but, they found real and drawn C////P on his computer (mostly real children) gigabytes of it

He's not in jail or anything because he ran off somewhere before the cops arrived.

I'm so fucking angry at myself and at that thing that doesn't even quality for being human.

I don't know what to do, I don't want to care about these people, but we knew each other for so long. I'm disgusted with his actions, but there's a part of me that still cares. I hate him so much.

It's been two months, but I just can't get over it. Sometimes I blame myself and I don't even know why.

Maybe I could have prevented him from getting this bad, maybe I could have tied him down while my friend was calling the cops so he wouldn't have gotten away, the list goes on really.

Sorry if I don't respond to anything, I'm just so tired.

wow - thats shit.
my first reaction is: kill that bastard
my second is: why is he that way? i mean no one is this for free i think.
thrid though: lock away to prevent child abuse
fourth: is it proofed what he did with this? / where did he got it from/ why is it on his pc / what hast he done with it
fifth: even if i am against every child abuse - he could be my friend. but he would havr to be honest about evrrything and transparent about therapeutical process etc.

and he would defintely never see my children again at first and layer only when im around. but im not sure about that. maybe he would see thwm never again.

i tried to underatand this for a long time in my life and from my own experieence and a lot of research about rape etc. i can say you i want them to go to therapy.

i mean i would kill every of my abuser with joy. but its more pleasure to unterstand why someone is doing such things. i can understand murdering people but i cant understand fucking a baby - i tried that but i cant get that. maybe because murdering comes to my mind every day

 

[ihatemylife]

Two months ago I found out one of my friends was a pedophile and I'm struggling with the idea of me being friends with someone so vile and not even knowing.

The mere existence of such awful people makes me want to hurl myself off the nearest building, the urge just gets stronger every week.

There aren't any buildings high enough with roof access where I live unfortunately, I feel trapped.

He was a normal guy, he was kind, he was just, your average Joe. Or maybe he wasn't, maybe im just easily manipulated! I don't even know anymore!

But what I do know is, he's a sick and manipulative bastard.

I had cut contact with my friend group a month prior to that because things just didn't feel right. The unspoken tension between the 3 of them was just too much for me. I was also just too depressed to interact with anyone.

I cut them all out, but I still cared about them, even though I didn't want to.

They never outright said what was going on, but I still felt it.

A few months earlier we were playing video games together after work and just in general, having an okay time as pals.

And after I left the group, everyone was at each other's throats. I never saw myself as being the glue that kept everything together, but I guess I was.

It started out as petty drama from what I was told, then it spiraled into something awful.

I'll spare you the details, but, they found real and drawn C////P on his computer (mostly real children) gigabytes of it

He's not in jail or anything because he ran off somewhere before the cops arrived.

I'm so fucking angry at myself and at that thing that doesn't even quality for being human.

I don't know what to do, I don't want to care about these people, but we knew each other for so long. I'm disgusted with his actions, but there's a part of me that still cares. I hate him so much.

It's been two months, but I just can't get over it. Sometimes I blame myself and I don't even know why.

Maybe I could have prevented him from getting this bad, maybe I could have tied him down while my friend was calling the cops so he wouldn't have gotten away, the list goes on really.

Sorry if I don't respond to anything, I'm just so tired.

Gross, Its not your fault and I doubt you could have done anything to prevent it. Sickos like that hide such things I would steer clear of the nasty bastard. People like him are why this world is such a horrible place.

 

[SleepDealer]

It is only victimless if it doesn't involve real children being filmed.

OP stated that most of the content that was found involved real children.

Unpopular take but...

Would you still write this post in the same way if it turned out your friend had a brain tumour that was responsible for his pedophilia like in this case?

If not why?

And do you think it matters whether a person does something because of one easily identifiable, clear cause that's out of their control, or because of 1000 smaller causes, none of which clear or obvious, but which combined result in the exact same outcome and all of which are equally beyond someone's control?

And if you answered both questions with "no" then well, are you sure you actually hate this person and think he really is a vile, sick bastard?

The man is a vile, sick bastard because he endangered children for his own selfish gain.

There are many crimes that are at least understandable, despite being wrong. Attacking in self defense, stealing to feed yourself or your family, doing drugs because you're depressed, etc.

Seeking out CP is not understandable for the same reason that the incel dream of government issued sex/distributing women like a commodity is fucking ridiculous. Sex and pleasure is not a NEED. Blue balls, virginity, and ignoring your boner won't kill you. Besides, imagination is 100% free.

I haven no pity for rapists because it is a truly selfish and inexcusable crime. On the same token, I have no pity for a man who can't masturbate because he needs to see real children getting abused in order to do so.

It doesn't matter why or how the man came to be a pedo. The fact is that instead of seeking help, he chose to find and download gigabytes of content that involved real life children. Instead of doing the right thing - reporting the people who are actively abusing and endangering children by making such content - he indulged in it. Whether or not he participated in it or paid for it doesn't matter, he still sent the message that "this is okay" and did absolutely nothing to stop the abuse. That makes someone a. Vile. Sick. Bastard.

 

[TriggerHappy]

... the only difference between them and "normal guys" is that they prefer to spend their evenings murdering rather than watching Netflix.

while the child porn thing is hectic ::
《not into sharing my stuff; but that knowledge & fear that as a child experiencing this; this is wrong, that you can't escape; that you created this experience so its your fault, is a mindfuck》
:: yeah I've been beaten up to unconscious by people that loved me... that don't scare me much anymore.. but I wish I could hookup with a serial killer and have them round for an evening (pick me! pick me!) would let them have their dreams come true.

 

[ormaybeyoucouldchill]

"Being there" for him may help him "recover". If you can help stop even one violation, you will be doing a great thing (for the victim AND your friend). But, he has to get in treatment and "face the music". I expect things will be very bad/lonely for him if he becomes a convicted sex offender.

I mean. You have no idea how difficult that is to deal with. And it's better than touching a child.

Yeah, being attracted to kids is not a problem for me (fortunately), but I also don't usually categorize peoples' level of relative vileness based on life choices or sin(s). Agree it's bad, and so sad for the innocents ....... I just can't marginalize based on my personal views or cast stones.

Viewing this material may actually prevent child molestation. So as bad as it is, maybe your friend was trying to cope with his problem by using the lesser of two evils.

Would you still write this post in the same way if it turned out your friend had a brain tumour that was responsible for his pedophilia like in this case?

If not why?

And do you think it matters whether a person does something because of one easily identifiable, clear cause that's out of their control, or because of 1000 smaller causes, none of which clear or obvious, but which combined result in the exact same outcome and all of which are equally beyond someone's control?

And if you answered both questions with "no" then well, are you sure you actually hate this person and think he really is a vile, sick bastard?

People are complicated. They're not just one thing

even if i am against every child abuse - he could be my friend. but he would havr to be honest about evrrything and transparent about therapeutical process etc.

Pedophile does not equal child molester!

A pedophile isn't necessarily a child molester? Absolutely, but if a pedophile lived next door to you, would you still be making that distinction? I'm seeing a surprising amount of understanding for the perpetrator, but would any of you be fine with them living in your community?

Most people automatically believe that all pedophiles are monsters. Thinking in such a black and white way is foolish/lazy, but I can't blame them. Despite my better judgment, I'm guilty of demonizing pedophiles too. And I think everyone in this thread is as well, despite what they may say.

I guess I'm just having a hard time buying the authenticity of the comments that are more "understanding" to the person who was viewing those files.

The fact is that instead of seeking help, he chose to find and download gigabytes of content that involved real life children.

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. How do you know they never seeked help?

Whether or not he participated in it or paid for it doesn't matter

I think it absolutely does matter. Participation would mean they helped create CP. Paying for it would be funding CP. Those things are way worse than just downloading it, in my opinion.

he still sent the message that "this is okay" and did absolutely nothing to stop the abuse.

I think the only message that is sent by downloading those files is "there is an audience." (as horrifying as that is.)

And as far as abuse goes, there is a chance that viewing those files was keeping them from actually molesting a child. Though I don't think there is any way to actually prove that.

That makes someone a. Vile. Sick. Bastard.

Logically, I don't think that's true about someone succumbing to their sexual desires by downloading those images.

But emotionally, I completely agree. It's just too hard NOT to reactively demonize pedophiles, in my opinion. As much as I try to be understanding to everyone, I was genuinely shocked by some of these comments (purely emotionally, not logically).

 

[nooo2]

I do feel for pedophiles who suffer because of their illness because majority of them do not act upon their desires, however..I don't agree with them going out and actively seeking out CP, that's really disgusting and evil.

 

[SleepDealer]

I am not interested in explaining why viewing and downloading CP is harmful and should be taken seriously. It should not be brushed off just because "it's not as bad" as participating or because it could have "prevented" something... I feel like that should be obvious. Is it not obvious? God, fuckin take me out of this world already.

 

[TongueDrummer]

People won't like this narrative, but I'll throw it out there anyway. This info comes from a TED Talk a few years back.

A mental health professional talked about how her research, was indicating the possibility that pedophilia is a completely natural sexual orientation. That it's no different to being heterosexual or homosexual.

She clarifies the distinction between a pedophile, who is someone who is attracted to children, which is possibly completely natural, and an abuser of children, which never has, and never will be okay.

Furthermore she talked about how, many pedophiles hate themselves for their sexual desires, and that the current penal system of locking away offenders, and then releasing them back into society, doesn't work. Because typically, they haven't received treatment.

She was treating pedophiles, and finding that her patients were at far lower risk or recommitting the same crimes, than offenders who had been to prison, and not been treated. She talked about how if as a society, we can de-stigmatize pedophilia, then theoretically, more of them would seek help. Concluding that in a weird way, if we can de-stigmatize pedophilia, we can keep children far safer, than in our current broken system.

If this was the 1960's or something, this OP might have been talking about how he is sick to his stomach because he just found out his friend was gay. Thankfully we've made progress since then, and gay people are at less risk of being attacked. Maybe if this Doctor manages to get her work out there, children will be a lot safer.

 

[nooo2]

People won't like this narrative, but I'll throw it out there anyway. This info comes from a TED Talk a few years back.

A mental health professional talked about how her research, was indicating the possibility that pedophilia is a completely natural sexual orientation. That it's no different to being heterosexual or homosexual.

She clarifies the distinction between a pedophile, who is someone who is attracted to children, which is possibly completely natural, and an abuser of children, which never has, and never will be okay.

Furthermore she talked about how, many pedophiles hate themselves for their sexual desires, and that the current penal system of locking away offenders, and then releasing them back into society, doesn't work. Because typically, they haven't received treatment.

She was treating pedophiles, and finding that her patients were at far lower risk or recommitting the same crimes, than offenders who had been to prison, and not been treated. She talked about how if as a society, we can de-stigmatize pedophilia, then theoretically, more of them would seek help. Concluding that in a weird way, if we can de-stigmatize pedophilia, we can keep children far safer, than in our current broken system.

If this was the 1960's or something, this OP might have been talking about how he is sick to his stomach because he just found out his friend was gay. Thankfully we've made progress since then, and gay people are at less risk of being attacked. Maybe if this Doctor manages to get her work out there, children will be a lot safer.

I agree and disagree with some of your points. I don't think that it's natural..because being attracted to children period is just extremely dangerous. And it's incredibly sad for the person that's attracted to them because they probably won't ever find love and function in this society or any society for that matter because children should be protected. And it's also just not sustainable since Children age out of what they look like, where as gay people are attracted to the same sex, NOT a particular age group. So let's say in a world where pedophiles can date children, what happens when that child grows up and matures? They're just going to fall out of love and move onto the next child, causing another child more trauma. I know you're not saying that they should be allowed to date Children, I'm only trying to push my point further that although you and this doctor claim it's natural, I think it's far from natural and it is an illness.

 

[deadverysoon]

i think a pedophile isnt peodophile by free will. but the children have to be prootected.

i dont have solution for that. but end a sigma could be one.

but there must be a solutuion to prevent child abuse in the forehand.

and a false stigma for a person could be a very bad thing.

as someone who got abuse by myself i have a good sense for abusive parents. you just see this if anything is not allright by a kid.

in some cases i would prefer to kill pedophiles tbh. iean look at the !umbers in the catholic churches...

raped children since 1950: 216.000
makes nearly 8 children A DAY.

just in france....

what the fuck is wrong with this world...

obe more reason to kill myself - dont want ti life in a pedo-world...

 

[SleepDealer]

People won't like this narrative, but I'll throw it out there anyway. This info comes from a TED Talk a few years back.

A mental health professional talked about how her research, was indicating the possibility that pedophilia is a completely natural sexual orientation. That it's no different to being heterosexual or homosexual.

She clarifies the distinction between a pedophile, who is someone who is attracted to children, which is possibly completely natural, and an abuser of children, which never has, and never will be okay.

Furthermore she talked about how, many pedophiles hate themselves for their sexual desires, and that the current penal system of locking away offenders, and then releasing them back into society, doesn't work. Because typically, they haven't received treatment.

She was treating pedophiles, and finding that her patients were at far lower risk or recommitting the same crimes, than offenders who had been to prison, and not been treated. She talked about how if as a society, we can de-stigmatize pedophilia, then theoretically, more of them would seek help. Concluding that in a weird way, if we can de-stigmatize pedophilia, we can keep children far safer, than in our current broken system.

If this was the 1960's or something, this OP might have been talking about how he is sick to his stomach because he just found out his friend was gay. Thankfully we've made progress since then, and gay people are at less risk of being attacked. Maybe if this Doctor manages to get her work out there, children will be a lot safer.

I see where that professor is coming from, and I agree with giving them treatment and addressing the stigma but... I strongly disagree with the notion that pedophilia is anything akin to homosexuality, and I think that's a harmful comparison to make.

Comparing pedos to gays reminds me of the "slippery slope" arguments that the phobes made when discussing whether or not to allow homosexual marriage. They compared it to bestiality, saying that if we legalize gay marriage, people will be trying to marry dogs next. It's a ridiculous comparison to make, considering homosexual marriage involves two consenting adults and there are some extremely significant differences between being gay and wanting to do animals.

Bestiality and pedophilia have more in common with each other than with homosexuality. First, they are paraphilias, not a sexual orientation. Neither of them have anything to do with gender, and it's not like we call a foot fetish a sexual orientation. Second, homosexuality (despite the name) is not inherently rooted in sexual desire. One can be both homosexual and asexual, meaning they're attracted to the same gender but they're only interested in romance, not sex. This is different from pedophilia and bestiality, which are characterized by sexual desire and urges. Lastly, they both involve nonconsenting parties and are rather... unsustainable desires. (I have no interest in going into more detail on that.)

I'm aware that pedophilia is not always the result of "nurture" (unlike most paraphilias) but the same can be said about people with anti-social personality disorder. ASPD -- or what most people might know as sociopathy or psychopathy -- which has a similarly terrible reputation. Sociopaths can be violent, but they are not always violent. Still, it is a disorder. Pedophilia definitely falls in the category of a disorder and should be treated as such. In other words, we should take care not to villainize people who have done nothing wrong, but we should also take steps to give them treatment when necessary, and we should understand but not justify any wrongdoings related to their condition.

Anyway, I have spent way more time in this thread than intended. I'll just tl;dr what I've said so far:

- Viewing CP is harmful and should be taken seriously as a really selfish and immoral thing to do, and should not be treated as a preventative measure to child molestation.
- Pedophilia is not the same as a sexual orientation like homosexuality. Pedophilia is a paraphilia that is considered a disorder.
- Being a pedo does not automatically make someone a bad person. Although, in my humble opinion, acting on those urges does make someone a bad person.

So, yeah... I need a hobby.

 

[TongueDrummer]

I agree and disagree with some of your points. I don't think that it's natural..because being attracted to children period is just extremely dangerous. And it's incredibly sad for the person that's attracted to them because they probably won't ever find love and function in this society or any society for that matter because children should be protected. And it's also just not sustainable since Children age out of what they look like, where as gay people are attracted to the same sex, NOT a particular age group. So let's say in a world where pedophiles can date children, what happens when that child grows up and matures? They're just going to fall out of love and move onto the next child, causing another child more trauma. I know you're not saying that they should be allowed to date Children, I'm only trying to push my point further that although you and this doctor claim it's natural, I think it's far from natural and it is an illness.

I have made no claims. And she is merely stating the possibility, based on the initial results of her research.

Making that distinction is just as important as the one between, pedophilia, and child sexual abuse.

And as for pedophiles not finding love and functioning in society... Are you serious? We're having this conversation, because so many manage to do exactly that. Some children are abused by parents, those parents are holding down jobs, are married, and bought houses, and are living next door to you. Joseph Fritzel? In Germany, he was married, with five or six children.

I see where that professor is coming from, and I agree with giving them treatment and addressing the stigma but... I strongly disagree with the notion that pedophilia is anything akin to homosexuality, and I think that's a harmful comparison to make.

Comparing pedos to gays reminds me of the "slippery slope" arguments that the phobes made when discussing whether or not to allow homosexual marriage. They compared it to bestiality, saying that if we legalize gay marriage, people will be trying to marry dogs next. It's a ridiculous comparison to make, considering homosexual marriage involves two consenting adults and there are some extremely significant differences between being gay and wanting to do animals.

Bestiality and pedophilia have more in common with each other than with homosexuality. First, they are paraphilias, not a sexual orientation. Neither of them have anything to do with gender, and it's not like we call a foot fetish a sexual orientation. Second, homosexuality (despite the name) is not inherently rooted in sexual desire. One can be both homosexual and asexual, meaning they're attracted to the same gender but they're only interested in romance, not sex. This is different from pedophilia and bestiality, which are characterized by sexual desire and urges. Lastly, they both involve nonconsenting parties and are rather... unsustainable desires. (I have no interest in going into more detail on that.)

It seems like in making your point, you've almost argued the same reasoning as the slippery slope crowd in your rebuttal...

Also, everything you've said, is from the current understanding of these things, and that's the point of her research, is to change the classifications, based on science, and move the understanding forward, in order to keep children safe.

Like nothing you've said is wrong, but it doesn't move the discussion forward, it just stagnates progress because all you're doing is telling people how things are, not how they might be, pending further scientific investigation.

as someone who got abuse by myself i have a good sense for abusive parents. you just see this if anything is not allright by a kid.

in some cases i would prefer to kill pedophiles tbh. iean look at the !umbers in the catholic churches...

raped children since 1950: 216.000
makes nearly 8 children A DAY.

Catholicism, I think is a different issue. I don't see that so much as a child abuse issue, but as a systemic corruption issue.

A lot of large corporations and organizations have a tendency to sweep things under the rug, in order to save face, rather than doing the right thing, because doing the right thing, means accepting, and admitting, that something wasn't perfect.

The Catholic church, and other churches for that matter, have a whole lot wrong with them, it just happens to be that child sexual abuse is one of those many things.

 

[NaughtyGirl]

The man is a vile, sick bastard because he endangered children for his own selfish gain.

If we're going to be really nuanced here then even the fact he had real child porn doesn't necessitate that he endangered anyone. I imagine a lot of that porn must be just regular photos of naked children taken on beaches or under the shower etc. Technically, parents wouldn't even need to take those photos with any nefarious goal in mid. It's possible they could have taken them with the goal of putting them in a family album and only later decided to share them with people "in need" so to speak. In that case, it's hard to tell how exactly watching those materials would put children in danger and how much. So without knowing that your judgement is premature.

There are many crimes that are at least understandable, despite being wrong. Attacking in self defense, stealing to feed yourself or your family, doing drugs because you're depressed, etc.

That's an off-topic but do you really think any of the things you mentioned are actually morally wrong? Doing drugs is like getting beaten by a snake. The world would have been a better place if we viewed it as a disease or an unlucky accident rather than crime. Attacking in self defense also doesn't seem wrong unless you're a moral absolutist. Stealing as a last resort to survive also doesn't seem wrong as in, I'd never call a person doing that evil unless they're stealing from someone in need.

Seeking out CP is not understandable for the same reason that the incel dream of government issued sex/distributing women like a commodity is fucking ridiculous. Sex and pleasure is not a NEED. Blue balls, virginity, and ignoring your boner won't kill you. Besides, imagination is 100% free.

I'm glad that you're making a crucial distinction between imagination and doing things that involve actual harm done to real people. A lot of people aren't capable of it and would say that it doesn't matter whether a person, fantasises about having sex with children, watches child porn, or actually molests children, they're all equally bad and deserve the same treatment which is comically unfair and cruel in my opinion.

Having said that I disagree completely that sex, let alone pleasure in general are not needs. I mean, just look at this forum, people are literally dying because they lack these things. Is there really a difference between a person who dies out of hunger and a one who kills himself out of loneliness? The idea that people should be just satisfied with empty, vegetative existence and everything else is just a whim, is both cruel and unhelpful.

Also the part about incels wanting redistributed sex isn't ridiculous in the slightest. It's just a little futuristic. It's not a possibility for now but one day it could easily become reality. Obviously we wouldn't use real women or men but sex robots instead. That will happen once all sectors of the global economy are fully automated and there is literally nothing left for humans that machines can't do better. Hopefully at that point we'll finally understand that hard work isn't the meaning of our lives and that it's ok to just have fun. And since we'll be able to easily afford it, why not provide all people with tools to have a great time? It's going to be either through sex robots or virtual reality sex. And it's not like sex will be the only available activity, through virtual reality everyone will have their dreams and deepest desires fullfiled in a way that's completely safe and ethical. Any vision other than this of total freedom and acceptance of our nature I'll view as a failure of our species. And if you think this doesn't sound good at all, then it likely means you probably haven't thought it through yet.

I haven no pity for rapists because it is a truly selfish and inexcusable crime. On the same token, I have no pity for a man who can't masturbate because he needs to see real children getting abused in order to do so.

Like I said, it's not obvious to me at all that taking picture of a kid on a beach and then sending it to someone constitutes an abuse. People, smoke, drink in the same house where they raise their children. Sometimes they don't vaccinate them or they put them through religious indoctrination. Also, some people are just poor and yet they procreate knowing very well their child will be poor as well. Do you count those things as abusive? Maybe they're, some of them definitely seem worse than taking a picture of your kid and sending it to a pedophile on the other side of the world. Yet I believe none of them causes the same reaction of disgust.

It doesn't matter why or how the man came to be a pedo. The fact is that instead of seeking help, he chose to find and download gigabytes of content that involved real life children. Instead of doing the right thing - reporting the people who are actively abusing and endangering children by making such content - he indulged in it. Whether or not he participated in it or paid for it doesn't matter, he still sent the message that "this is okay" and did absolutely nothing to stop the abuse. That makes someone a. Vile. Sick. Bastard.

Why "instead"? Seeking help and downloading CP aren't mutually exclusive.

And why would you ever say it doesn't matter if he participated in it or not? Earlier I praised you for spotting an important nuance but now you've thrown it out the window.

And most importantly, if you understand that a person doesn't choose if he is a pedophile or not, what makes you think a person gets to choose whether they seek help or not? If it's possible for a tumour or a myriad of smaller factors to turn a person into a pedo, it's surely possible for a tumour or myriad of smaller factors to render them virtually incapable of seeking help.

Ironically, one of the "small" factors preventing pedophiles from seeking help is people like you. Why would a vile sick bastard ever seek help if he such a monstrosity? There is no hope. That's like telling a suicidal person who has a profound sense of self hatred and guilt that they're trash because they try to kill themselves... like, what exactly are you trying to achieve? Who are you trying to help? If you want pedophiles to seek medical treatment the absolutely last thing you want to do is to dehumanize them in any way.

 

[NaughtyGirl]

A pedophile isn't necessarily a child molester? Absolutely, but if a pedophile lived next door to you, would you still be making that distinction? I'm seeing a surprising amount of understanding for the perpetrator, but would any of you be fine with them living in your community?

I, on the other hand, am surprised that on the forum dedicated to the topic of suicide there are still people having difficulty seeing nuance in the world.

Most people automatically believe that all pedophiles are monsters. Thinking in such a black and white way is foolish/lazy, but I can't blame them. Despite my better judgment, I'm guilty of demonizing pedophiles too. And I think everyone in this thread is as well, despite what they may say.

That's like living in the 60s and saying "Most people automatically believe all gays are monsters. Thinking in such a black and white way is foolish/lazy, but I can't blame them. Despite my better judgment, I'm guilty of demonizing gays too. And I think everyone in this thread is as well, despite what they may say."

Like, what are you saying? People who demonized gays were perhaps victims of their times but it doesn't change the fact they were still wrong.

But emotionally, I completely agree. It's just too hard NOT to reactively demonize pedophiles, in my opinion. As much as I try to be understanding to everyone, I was genuinely shocked by some of these comments (purely emotionally, not logically).

If it's too hard then perhaps you haven't thought about it long enough. Not saying that it will help for sure, there are things that personally annoy me even though I feel like I have no reason to actually be annoyed, but it's worth trying.

I do feel for pedophiles who suffer because of their illness because majority of them do not act upon their desires, however..I don't agree with them going out and actively seeking out CP, that's really disgusting and evil.

Not all CP is equal, drawings can technically be CP but I have a hard time seeing how viewing this sort of stuff would be evil or disgusting. Also, in just a couple of years things like child sex robots, virtual reality sex with child-like avatars controlled by AI, or realistic CP generated by AI will become possible. In my opinion all three things should be legal since none of them causes any harm and actually prevents real harm from happening. But for some reason most of humanity seems to disagree.

I am not interested in explaining why viewing and downloading CP is harmful and should be taken seriously. It should not be brushed off just because "it's not as bad" as participating or because it could have "prevented" something... I feel like that should be obvious. Is it not obvious? God, fuckin take me out of this world already.

No one is brushing it off by saying that it's not as bad as something else. Just because someone says A is not as bad as B, doesn't mean someone believes A is not bad at all. It's ironic that you end up your post the way you do, honestly.

I agree and disagree with some of your points. I don't think that it's natural..because being attracted to children period is just extremely dangerous.

How can you possibly say that it's not natural? Humans are a part of the natural world. Everything we do and everything that we'll ever do is by definition as natural as everything else. You say that it's because it's dangerous but this doesn't make sense. There are a lot of dangerous things in the world, are all of them unnatural? There doesn't seem to be any logical connection between these two concepts. Also, in what way is pedophilia dangerous? Are heterosexual men dangerous because they're sexually attracted to women and are stronger than them?

And it's incredibly sad for the person that's attracted to them because they probably won't ever find love and function in this society or any society for that matter because children should be protected. And it's also just not sustainable since Children age out of what they look like, where as gay people are attracted to the same sex, NOT a particular age group. So let's say in a world where pedophiles can date children, what happens when that child grows up and matures? They're just going to fall out of love and move onto the next child, causing another child more trauma. I know you're not saying that they should be allowed to date Children, I'm only trying to push my point further that although you and this doctor claim it's natural, I think it's far from natural and it is an illness.

What is considered an illness now may very well not be in the future since it's quite arbitrary. Illness is generally what makes us and people around us worse off. Thus a condition that increases iq by 50 would never be viewed as an illness as against the condition decreasing the iq by the same margin even if the mechanism is exactly the same.

Imagine a world 50 or 100 years from now. Sex robots are common and come in all shapes and sizes. To the naked eye they're indistinguishable from real people. In fact calling them sex robots is misleading since they can perform all actions actual humans can. They can talk and simulate all emotions. The only thing that differs them from real people is that for all we know they're unconscious. In that world, if you're a pedophile you can simply design your own dream child and order it. Perhaps they're even redistributed by the state. Virtual reality is also a thing and it can perfectly mimic the real world. In those virtual worlds you can do whatever you want and that includes sex. With the generative power of AI you can have sex with anyone and anything you want. Aliens, ghosts, tentacle monsters, animals and kids.

That's when pedophilia won't even be an illness anymore.

- Viewing CP is harmful and should be taken seriously as a really selfish and immoral thing to do, and should not be treated as a preventative measure to child molestation.
- Pedophilia is not the same as a sexual orientation like homosexuality. Pedophilia is a paraphilia that is considered a disorder.
- Being a pedo does not automatically make someone a bad person. Although, in my humble opinion, acting on those urges does make someone a bad person.

So, yeah... I need a hobby.

You can't simultaneously believe that pedophilia is a mental disease and yet insist that people who act as a result of it are somehow morally responsible and therefore bad.

Also, not all CP is created equally. I saw research indicating that viewing fictional CP is completely harmless. Also, as any incel can confirm, the idea that viewing porn, even real life one, leads to a person having real life sex could not be further from the truth.

 

[Ch92921]

Bestiality is a paraphilia? Correct! Pedophilia is paraphilia is a paraphilia! No dont! I believe pedophiles are born this way. I DONT understand why neuroscientist do no research in this direction.
The reason is sexual drives are primitive from the wild in our limbic system. Our civilisation, science and culture has developped because our ration brain started to grow. But deep inside our brain there is still this evolutionary old brain structure called limbic system.
You wanna say these three guys are pedophile because of but social enviornment? Really?