Discussion How is this possible? 2 teens CTB'd in a psyche ward using plastic bags

[hell toupee]

I came across an article last night about some parents who are trying to get a teen psyche ward to remove all plastic bags.

What happened was a girl committed ctb simply by putting a plastic bag over her head.

Then, about 8 months later, another teen, a boy this time, did the same exact thing.

How is it possible that 2 teenagers ctb'd this way on separated occasions? I could understand if they might've had some help - like someone is literally killing them while holding the bag in place as the victim tries to rip it off their head, but this is not the case.

How is it possible that a couple of teenagers had the willpower to do that? They were teens in a psyche ward - if they were on the street I would think that they did this in combination with some type of drug - I believe this is how the Final Exit book used to suggest for older people - take some medication that knocks you out and pass out with a a large bag over your head so the hypercapnia isn't immediate.

I can't believe that a couple of teenagers had the willpower to do that.

Has anyone heard of this story? It made headlines not because of the CTB's, but because after the 2nd death parents were trying to get the facility to remove all plastic bags.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I went to a psych ward as a teen/pre-teen. There are a lot of teens with psychotic disorders/symptoms there.

My only attempt was years later at 17 (not in a psych ward), during what was essentially a psychotic break. Slashed my wrist with a deeply serrated knife multiple times. If I hadn't had it wrestled out of my grip, I would have done more. I even tried to stab the person saving me.

Safe to say, you can extrapolate from there. I absolutely believe two teens at their lowest could pull that off if that psych ward was anything like the one I went to.

 

[hell toupee]

I went to a psych ward as a teen/pre-teen. There are a lot of teens with psychotic disorders/symptoms there.

My only attempt was years later at 16 (not in a psych ward), during what was essentially a psychotic break. Slashed my wrist with a deeply serrated knife multiple times. If I hadn't had it wrestled out of my grip, I would have done more. I even tried to stab the person saving me.

Safe to say, you can extrapolate from there. I absolutely believe two teens at their lowest could pull that off if that psych ward was anything like the one I went to.

Thank you for the insight - I appreciate it.

So, basically, you think they were having a psychotic break or something? I guess that might explain it, however, psychotic break or not, you would think that hypercapnia would induce a kind of automated response where your body does whatever is possible to breathe fresh air. At least, that's the way I understand it.

I mean, I understand a psychotic break might lead you to do something impulsive in the moment, but I had always understood the hypercapnic response as a more automated response that you cannot control - regardless of your mental state of mind.

I will admit, I've never experienced a psychotic break, but still - it just seems like you would need inhuman willpower to override the body's automated response.

I mean, get the attraction some people might have for using a plastic bag, it's not violent like hanging or something, but I had always heard that it's basically impossible to just push through a hypercapnic response. Maybe the hypercapnia doesn't actually last very long and some people can in fact push through? There are case reports of people using a plastic bag - mostly older people, and it's usually combined with some type of powerful sedative - however I did read a case report, again, last night, of a 60yo woman simply taking some codeine and ctb this way.

I am very experienced with opioids, and my first thought would be that codeine, even in high doses to an someone who has no tolerance, would certainly NOT be enough to allow you to ignore the hypercapnia. Maybe if she had used a large bag that allowed her to breathe normally for a bit after she passes out - but she used a grocery bag, so she had to be conscious to pull it over her head, and the hypercapnia would set in almost immediately - meaning she's not in some deep slumber or anything.

Strange.

 

[itsgone2]

I mean, I understand a psychotic break might lead you to do something impulsive in the moment, but I had always understood the hypercapnic response as a more automated response that you cannot control - regardless of your mental state of mind.

Yeah I don't get it either. Years ago I tried this on more than one occasion. Couldn't get even remotely close. A psychotic break must really be something

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

Thank you for the insight - I appreciate it.

So, basically, you think they were having a psychotic break or something? I guess that might explain it, however, psychotic break or not, you would think that hypercapnia would induce a kind of automated response where your body does whatever is possible to breathe fresh air. At least, that's the way I understand it.

I mean, I understand a psychotic break might lead you to do something impulsive in the moment, but I had always understood the hypercapnic response as a more automated response that you cannot control - regardless of your mental state of mind.

I will admit, I've never experienced a psychotic break, but still - it just seems like you would need inhuman willpower to override the body's automated response.

I mean, get the attraction some people might have for using a plastic bag, it's not violent like hanging or something, but I had always heard that it's basically impossible to just push through a hypercapnic response. Maybe the hypercapnia doesn't actually last very long and some people can in fact push through? There are case reports of people using a plastic bag - mostly older people, and it's usually combined with some type of powerful sedative - however I did read a case report, again, last night, of a 60yo woman simply taking some codeine and ctb this way.

I am very experienced with opioids, and my first thought would be that codeine, even in high doses to an someone who has no tolerance, would certainly NOT be enough to allow you to ignore the hypercapnia. Maybe if she had used a large bag that allowed her to breathe normally for a bit after she passes out - but she used a grocery bag, so she had to be conscious to pull it over her head, and the hypercapnia would set in almost immediately - meaning she's not in some deep slumber or anything.

Strange.

There were kids who would talk to "invisible people" and bang their heads on the walls so hard that you could hear it through the ward. Psychosis can shut down Survival Instinct for many people (I've heard that can happen to some pw bipolar with or without psychotic features too, but I don't have it so I'd have to defer to the experts), and if they did do something like bang their head on the wall to get dizzy enough (many wards are super neglectful and just do not care as long as you have no visible wounds), I genuinely think that's a serious likelihood.

At my ward they literally had me turn and cough, and they took all my clothes, so I can't imagine having PLASTIC BAGS.

Also, ironically, some heavy sedative and antidepressant meds they force mentally ill teens onto can cause emotional numbing and result in reduced SI longterm.

Yeah I don't get it either. Years ago I tried this on more than one occasion. Couldn't get even remotely close. A psychotic break must really be something

Psychotic breaks are absolutely wild if I hadn't been helped during mine, I probably would have severed my entire wrist tendon and possibly hit an artery or something since I have thin skin due to EDS. I have four gnarly scars even now.

 

[itsgone2]

At my ward they literally had me turn and cough, and they took all my clothes, so I can't imagine having PLASTIC BAGS.

Yeah that's a good point. I was in once. They give you nothing. Even the clothes had no strings or anything

 

[dissociation]

When you're in a psych ward and have nothing else at your disposal, you just have to get creative.

 

[Sadbanana]

I guess it's just skill issue. Or maybe there is still a part in us that isn't ready to let go. In my case it's both.

 

[nyotei_]

echoing @NormallyNeurotic here, doing this is nearly impossible without either drugs or being under the influence of a severe psychotic episode.

this is also why it's theoretically possible to just simply find and cut a specific artery in your arm or neck, but your brain is never going to let you just do that; unless there was something powerful overriding it. it's not at all peaceful to go through.

the real question here is how the hell they got a hold of plastic bags in there at all????

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

echoing @NormallyNeurotic here, doing this is nearly impossible without either drugs or being under the influence of a severe psychotic episode.

this is also why it's theoretically possible to just simply find and cut a specific artery in your arm or neck, but your brain is never going to let you just do that; unless there was something powerful overriding it. it's not at all peaceful to go through.

the real question here is how the hell they got a hold of plastic bags in there at all????

I mean, if the parents are trying to ban plastic bags, they straight up might allow them there! Maybe for meals, or to put your clothes or bath products in?

 

[Intoxicated]

but I had always understood the hypercapnic response as a more automated response that you cannot control - regardless of your mental state of mind.

It's not more automatic than the desire to smoke in a heavy smoker experiencing nicotine withdrawal syndrome. Both are forms of discomfort that may be difficult to tolerate. In either case, the discomfort may be bearable with a strong motivation and willpower.

if they were on the street I would think that they did this in combination with some type of drug - I believe this is how the Final Exit book used to suggest for older people - take some medication that knocks you out and pass out with a a large bag over your head so the hypercapnia isn't immediate.

Some people succeed without using drugs. https://i.sanctioned-suicide.net/images/2025/02/221416_Plastic_bag_suffocation.pdf

 

[jatty]

You guys are severely underestimating some people's will power.
People do this without drugs all the time. Hell, even without a psychotic break or mania, its possible and people do it almost every week.
There is a video online of someone literally lighting his body on fire in response political protest. Through pure determination he stayed standing and yelling despite the fire melting his skin off.

Its just possible.
When i was in psych some girl almost killed herself as well. She was my roomie, and she wasnt in an active intense episode, its just how she was.

 

[Intoxicated]

You guys are severely underestimating some people's will power.

Amongst the users of this forum, there is a widespread belief in so called survival instinct that takes full control over your mind and dictates you how to behave. This pseudo-scientific concept rejects the role of willpower in a life-threatening situation coupled with severe physical discomfort, insisting that instincts necessarily dominate over the conscious will in such cases.

 

[TheEmptyVoid]

You guys are severely underestimating some people's will power.
People do this without drugs all the time. Hell, even without a psychotic break or mania, its possible and people do it almost every week.
There is a video online of someone literally lighting his body on fire in response political protest. Through pure determination he stayed standing and yelling despite the fire melting his skin off.

Its just possible.
When i was in psych some girl almost killed herself as well. She was my roomie, and she wasnt in an active intense episode, its just how she was.

It is definitely possible to overcome the feeling of suffocation with enough willpower, from my experience of being overly desperate back like 2-3 years ago, I exhaled fully and quickly put a plastic bag over my head and tied a cable on my neck with the exit bags opening to secure and make the bag airtight around my head with no air inside, the horrible urge to breathe feeling which is called air hunger or dyspnea, came after like 10 seconds and I was able to handle it because of how desperate I was, after like I don't even know how long, probably 4 agonizing minutes, I saw yellow firework-like sparks moving in my vision like a VHS filter and being lightheaded and dizzy and I ripped out the bag because I didn't want to get brain damage because I don't know if I would remove the bag while unconscious and get brain damage instead of dying.

 

[chudeatte]

people are in the psych ward for a reason. not saying theyre crazy or anything, I empathise with them a lot. but in general a lot of them are there for suicide attempts anyway. if a teen who is already suicidal and who has most likely made an attempt or a plan to commit is sent to a ward, that will probably make their mindset worse and their willpower stronger. if there's a will there's a way I suppose. with limited resources they have to get creative

 

[hell toupee]

It's not more automatic than the desire to smoke in a heavy smoker experiencing nicotine withdrawal syndrome. Both are forms of discomfort that may be difficult to tolerate. In either case, the discomfort may be bearable with a strong motivation and willpower.

Some people succeed without using drugs. https://i.sanctioned-suicide.net/images/2025/02/221416_Plastic_bag_suffocation.pdf

Thanks for the link - that's really interesting.

It seems to me that if someone was going to use this method, it would probably be best to use something bigger than like a grocery bag, because if the bag is too small, you would be sucking in the plastic bag as you gasp for breath.

That said, I like the idea of using a plastic bag - like garbage bag size, as insurance. ODs, even SN, CO, etc., all have case reports of people surviving. But really, all you need is something that you would cause you to lose consciousness. After you have passed out, the plastic bag would insure that you don't survive.

Right now, I'm trying to find an accessible way to lose consciousness fairly quickly. I bought plastic sheeting, which I was planning on creating a small cocoon of sorts in the back area of my closet. This should have enough oxygen to all for normal breathing for maybe an hour or 2, but you are unconscious, so it wouldn't matter. If using like a small grocery bag, you would obviously still have to be conscious to pull it over your head, and hypercapnia would be almost immediate. However in a larger enclosure, it would allow you to pass out inside of it, and the oxygen would be depleted only your deeply unconscious.

In the link you provided, and I have read other case reports as well, of people who abuse inhalants like starter fluid (ether). People put a rag soaked with ether in a plastic bag to get high, but accidentally pass out and suffocate. Ether was originally used as an anesthetic for surgery, but that might be a possibility.

This is for a backup method if my primary method fails. Originally, my backup method was going to be partial, then the more I studied, the more I became convinced that partial is difficult to pull off and you run the risk of involuntary movements easing up on the pressure to the carotids. Plus, it seems like the force to the neck has to be applied quickly, not slowly. So I then changed to full suspension hanging. However, even though the majority of full suspensions consciousness is lost very quickly, there are some who don't, and they end of in a terrorized panic as they suffocate, and unfortunately, in my mind, I overthink things which makes me worry if I would be one of the minority who doesn't lose consciousness immediately.

So if I compare having to kick over a stool, and take the leap of faith, or devising something that would simply allow me to suffocate, the suffocation sounds a bit more appealing than full suspension.

Maybe all I need to do is order some starter fluid, soak a rag with it, and then put a large garbage bag over my head. I breathe in ether fumes and normal oxygen, and then pass out before the CO2 levels get high.

I also agree with another post you made mentioning the whole SI thing on this website. While I can somewhat understand it, I also think in a lot of ways it's overblown - I would assume this would particularly effect people who are kind of on the fence with CTB. They don't really want to die, but they feel like they have to for whatever reason. I am not in that boat. I actually look forward to the afterlife, and that's my own personal belief - I don't expect anyone to agree with an afterlife. But given what I experienced right after my wife died, and watching a lot of near death experience testimonials, the idea that death is the end, like turning off a light, has become preposterous to me. So I want to CTB, it's just the act itself and how I get there that is distressing - especially of making an attempt and failing and ending up 1000x worse. This is why I will employ a plastic bag, garbage bag, or plastic sheeting to insure I don't survive. What I need though, is a way to knock myself out so I don't have to experience suffocating. Every OD could be 100% successful if you employed using a plastic bag for insurance. Every CO attempt could be 100% successful. SN as well. At the mark where you start to feel sleepy, according to the anecdotal reports here, you employ the bag, pass out and have a 100% guaranteed CTB.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to benzos, SN or anything. Do you have any ideas?

 

[itsgone2]

this might not be the exact article but found this: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gx396wdyxo

 

[lilies.in.heaven]

Through pure determination he stayed standing and yelling despite the fire melting his skin off.

Yeah, and I'm sure through some huge amount of meth or something.

 

[TheEmptyVoid]

Yeah, and I'm sure through some huge amount of meth or something.

Does caffeine do the same

 

[lilies.in.heaven]

Does caffeine do the same

No. Caffeine barely acts on the reward system.

 

[jatty]

Yeah, and I'm sure through some huge amount of meth or something.

No, the video was uncut and shown him before the act. He was calm and sane. No dilated pupils or twitching etc.
at most he was only to be known as a pothead.

 

[broken serenity]

When I use the psych ward I'm always cheeking pills. Maybe they stashed up their night meds to keep calm? I didn't know the body doesn't just pull it off or pop a hole in it after you pass out...

 

[Blueberry Panic]

Everyone is different... some people are just in a lot more pain then others

 

[Intoxicated]

It seems to me that if someone was going to use this method, it would probably be best to use something bigger than like a grocery bag, because if the bag is too small, you would be sucking in the plastic bag as you gasp for breath.

I think, minimizing the amount of air inside would be more valuable. The less oxygen you have there, the faster you lose consciousness. The sense of suffocation due to excess of CO2 may be delayed via hyperventilation before placing the bag over the head, and time to LOC may be reduced by physical exercise. It's worth noting that carbon dioxide is not the only issue, because growing temperature and humidity inside the bag also contribute to discomfort. This method may be useful when the available means for CTB are very limited (so that you can't obtain any simple or chemical asphyxiants that could render unconsciousness/narcosis in less than 1 minute).

and I have read other case reports as well, of people who abuse inhalants like starter fluid (ether). People put a rag soaked with ether in a plastic bag to get high, but accidentally pass out and suffocate. Ether was originally used as an anesthetic for surgery, but that might be a possibility.

From what I remember, inhaling ether takes minutes to take the desirable effect, and the vapors may irritate the airways.

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But given what I experienced right after my wife died, and watching a lot of near death experience testimonials, the idea that death is the end, like turning off a light, has become preposterous to me.

From my point of view, the whole concept of afterlife looks preposterous. Any future subject that won't share my memories or at least my social identity won't have the right to pretend to be me in any meaningful sense. Losing the memories about my current life when I die is nearly 100% guaranteed, based on the common observations. I barely even recall anything from my early childhood. Formally, on the paper, 4-5-year old me and my current self are the same person, but I don't really feel like that kid from the past and me from the present time have much in common. I lose parts of my individuality just by aging, and hoping on preservation of any valuable identity in afterlife would be rather naive.

 

[LackOfDetermination]

Thanks for the link - that's really interesting.

It seems to me that if someone was going to use this method, it would probably be best to use something bigger than like a grocery bag, because if the bag is too small, you would be sucking in the plastic bag as you gasp for breath.

That said, I like the idea of using a plastic bag - like garbage bag size, as insurance. ODs, even SN, CO, etc., all have case reports of people surviving. But really, all you need is something that you would cause you to lose consciousness. After you have passed out, the plastic bag would insure that you don't survive.

Right now, I'm trying to find an accessible way to lose consciousness fairly quickly. I bought plastic sheeting, which I was planning on creating a small cocoon of sorts in the back area of my closet. This should have enough oxygen to all for normal breathing for maybe an hour or 2, but you are unconscious, so it wouldn't matter. If using like a small grocery bag, you would obviously still have to be conscious to pull it over your head, and hypercapnia would be almost immediate. However in a larger enclosure, it would allow you to pass out inside of it, and the oxygen would be depleted only your deeply unconscious.

In the link you provided, and I have read other case reports as well, of people who abuse inhalants like starter fluid (ether). People put a rag soaked with ether in a plastic bag to get high, but accidentally pass out and suffocate. Ether was originally used as an anesthetic for surgery, but that might be a possibility.

This is for a backup method if my primary method fails. Originally, my backup method was going to be partial, then the more I studied, the more I became convinced that partial is difficult to pull off and you run the risk of involuntary movements easing up on the pressure to the carotids. Plus, it seems like the force to the neck has to be applied quickly, not slowly. So I then changed to full suspension hanging. However, even though the majority of full suspensions consciousness is lost very quickly, there are some who don't, and they end of in a terrorized panic as they suffocate, and unfortunately, in my mind, I overthink things which makes me worry if I would be one of the minority who doesn't lose consciousness immediately.

So if I compare having to kick over a stool, and take the leap of faith, or devising something that would simply allow me to suffocate, the suffocation sounds a bit more appealing than full suspension.

Maybe all I need to do is order some starter fluid, soak a rag with it, and then put a large garbage bag over my head. I breathe in ether fumes and normal oxygen, and then pass out before the CO2 levels get high.

I also agree with another post you made mentioning the whole SI thing on this website. While I can somewhat understand it, I also think in a lot of ways it's overblown - I would assume this would particularly effect people who are kind of on the fence with CTB. They don't really want to die, but they feel like they have to for whatever reason. I am not in that boat. I actually look forward to the afterlife, and that's my own personal belief - I don't expect anyone to agree with an afterlife. But given what I experienced right after my wife died, and watching a lot of near death experience testimonials, the idea that death is the end, like turning off a light, has become preposterous to me. So I want to CTB, it's just the act itself and how I get there that is distressing - especially of making an attempt and failing and ending up 1000x worse. This is why I will employ a plastic bag, garbage bag, or plastic sheeting to insure I don't survive. What I need though, is a way to knock myself out so I don't have to experience suffocating. Every OD could be 100% successful if you employed using a plastic bag for insurance. Every CO attempt could be 100% successful. SN as well. At the mark where you start to feel sleepy, according to the anecdotal reports here, you employ the bag, pass out and have a 100% guaranteed CTB.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to benzos, SN or anything. Do you have any ideas?

It's certainly an interesting idea to combine an exit bag with full suspension; Pass out from the hanging, then ensure death with suffocation even if the rope comes loosened somehow. I might even employ it myself, though I feel like having a bag over your head while hanging would certainly be a far more uncomfortable experience. I myself was initially planning to listen to music and read a novel on my phone while waiting to pass out, but was worried of losing my grip, so the bag might actually be useful if it is put into the bag over the head....