How is suicide that different from "other" types of death?

[R_N]

Reply I made on another thread made me think about this.

Death is death. What difference does it make if someone wants to end it directly by their own hand? Why is it such a shocker?

Why is clinging to slipping life better alternative?

 

[singularity3]

To Think in it previously. "Im going to kill myself"

 

[Darkover]

Why is clinging to slipping life better alternative?

it would be better alternative to never exist in the first place it would be better alternative if all life went extinct

 

[R_N]

it would be better alternative to never exist in the first place it would be better alternative if all life went extinct

Yeah. I would be fine with just me and beings who don't want to exist never existing tho.

But I was wondering why people treat deaths so differently and gatekeep them when it comes to choice. If I am going to die eventually why is it so bad if I go this moment? People act like future never comes.

 

[sensenmann]

Cause people think it could have been prevented just to feel better about themselves.

 

[Oathkeeper]

Because most people live their lives at a mental baseline of happiness, even through the tough times. You're not technically supposed to want to die, that's why we have survival instinct, form communities, etc. There's a surreal level of bleakness around some people being so miserable that they willingly dive head first into death.

 

[Mr.Tristesse]

It's deliberate. That is foreign to most people, who have a strong attachment to life. And the bereaved experience suicide extraordinarily differently than they do other deaths.

 

[R_N]

Because most people live their lives at a mental baseline of happiness, even through the tough times. You're not technically supposed to want to die, that's why we have survival instinct, form communities, etc. There's a surreal level of bleakness around some people being so miserable that they willingly dive head first into death.

What if lion is tearing you limb from limb or you suffer from painful illness? Are you wrong for not liking life?

I don't buy the "most people are in the right" meme and we are ill for seeing things differently. Sorry.

There is suffering all around us, just because majority choose to ignore it or don't have to feel it doesn't make them in the right. It makes them ignorant and uncaring.

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

A lot of non - suicidal people are actually commiting slow suicide by things such as drinking and smoking, and drugs yet they are shocked when someone takes their own life. Kinda hypocritical really.
Death is death wether by accident, suicide, or natural occurrence.
It's all the same thing to me.

 

[Mr.Tristesse]

What if lion is tearing you limb from limb or you suffer from painful illness? Are you wrong for not liking life?

I don't buy the "most people are in the right" meme and we are ill for seeing things differently. Sorry.

There is suffering all around us, just because majority choose to ignore it or don't have to feel it doesn't make them in the right. It makes them ignorant and uncaring.

I don't think they were talking about a right or wrong way to view the matter. They were just explaining the reality of how the general public views it.

 

[R_N]

A lot of non - suicidal people are actually commiting slow suicide by things such as drinking and smoking, yet they are shocked when someone takes their own life. Kinda hypocritical really.
Death is death wether by accident, suicide, or natural occurrence.
It's all the same thing to me.

Yeah. People will try to rationalise their hipocrisy in many ways just to excuse their basic instincts and their own needs. They don't really care what happens in general on earth.

I don't think they were talking about a right or wrong way to view the matter. They were just explaining the reality of how the general public views it.

Ok. I misunderstood then.

 

[Oathkeeper]

What if lion is tearing you limb from limb or you suffer from painful illness? Are you wrong for not liking life?

I don't buy the "most people are in the right" meme and we are ill for seeing things differently. Sorry.

There is suffering all around us, just because majority choose to ignore it or don't have to feel it doesn't make them in the right. It makes them ignorant and uncaring.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I personally think that in most ways, we're the sane ones for seeing reality for what it is. Ignorance really is bliss. Ultimately, I'm in the same boat as you.

But I do believe that's why suicide is stigmatized separately from other deaths. And I understand why it's much different for the bereaved.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I guess because we all know that death tends to cause pain in others. Either we have experienced it ourselves or, we have seen other people mourn.

The problem with suicide is that it's intentional. I think- whether they outright say it or not- people left behind tend to think: 'How could they do this to me? They must have known what it would do to me- and I suppose they didn't care enough to stop.' That's going to hurt more than regular death. It's a choice to leave them. You can argue that's selfish of them but I suppose all types of mourning is. We feel sorry for ourselves because we have lost something precious to us.

I guess the other thing is that some people simply won't accept that a person's life is going to be bad forever. They might have this belief that things would have improved if only they'd done this or that. If only they'd given it more time. So- in their eyes- that person missed out on their life which they still cling to the belief they would have enjoyed in the end.

 

[R_N]

I guess because we all know that death tends to cause pain in others. Either we have experienced it ourselves or, we have seen other people mourn.

The problem with suicide is that it's intentional. I think- whether they outright say it or not- people left behind tend to think: 'How could they do this to me? They must have known what it would do to me- and I suppose they didn't care enough to stop.' That's going to hurt more than regular death. It's a choice to leave them. You can argue that's selfish of them but I suppose all types of mourning is. We feel sorry for ourselves because we have lost something precious to us.

I guess the other thing is that some people simply won't accept that a person's life is going to be bad forever. They might have this belief that things would have improved if only they'd done this or that. If only they'd given it more time. So- in their eyes- that person missed out on their life which they still cling to the belief they would have enjoyed in the end.

Good point.

But their assumptions about people and their possible futures are fantasy thinking.

Most of us dont really know each other or what we go through. Someone could metaphorically be in fire every day and people still want them in there rather than dead.

I think humans also project their own fears of death onto others. But like I said, death is always nearby and that is probably the thing most choose to be ignorant about. They are not fully aware of their mortality I think. If they were, death would be seen as a process rather than something unthinkable to happen.

 

[Vesiira]

Reply I made on another thread made me think about this.

Death is death. What difference does it make if someone wants to end it directly by their own hand? Why is it such a shocker?

Why is clinging to slipping life better alternative?

I agree! What's the difference if you die in a car accident opposed to ending it yourself? We all die eventually. What does it matter if it's by accident or on purpose? We should honestly all have a choice on how we want to go out, not everyone does. For us, it's the one thing we can control.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Good point.

But their assumptions about people and their possible futures are fantasy thinking.

Most of us dont really know each other or what we go through. Someone could metaphorically be in fire every day and people still want them in there rather than dead.

I think humans also project their own fears of death onto others. But like I said, death is always nearby and that is probably the thing most choose to be ignorant about. They are not fully aware of their mortality I think. If they were, death would be seen as a process rather than something unthinkable to happen.

Yeah- I agree. I wouldn't say their assumptions on people are always accurate. Even if someone could be helped- they may not want to go that path. I think they also like to play the 'mental illness' card- as in- 'you're simply not thinking clearly. If you were well- you wouldn't be thinking like this.' That has a twofold effect- on the one hand- they don't have to face the fact that their loved one hates life and even they aren't enough for them to make things better. It also gives them superiority in saying- you can't be trusted to make this decision for yourself because you're not in your right mind.

 

[R_N]

I agree! What's the difference if you die in a car accident opposed to ending it yourself? We all die eventually. What does it matter if it's by accident or on purpose? We should honestly all have a choice on how we want to go out, not everyone does. For us, it's the one thing we can control.

I think it all comes down to instincts and traditions. That is why people have strong convictions about topics.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I personally think that in most ways, we're the sane ones for seeing reality for what it is. Ignorance really is bliss. Ultimately, I'm in the same boat as you.

But I do believe that's why suicide is stigmatized separately from other deaths. And I understand why it's much different for the bereaved.

I am sorry if my reply felt harsh. I would be fine if you disagreed really, I just said what I think about that particular mindset people have.

And being in the "right" is not as simple as it seems anyway. I think I am also a human like anyone else, mostly clueless about a lot of things we can't really grasp as limited beings. I can criticise things but at the end of the day I would fall in a trap if I couldn't step out of my own boxes and consider myself somewhat blind as well.

 

[sserafim]

Reply I made on another thread made me think about this.

Death is death. What difference does it make if someone wants to end it directly by their own hand? Why is it such a shocker?

Why is clinging to slipping life better alternative?

I think that suicide is seen as "different" because it's self-inflicted death. Some people actually consider suicide as self-murder. I think that suicide shouldn't be so taboo and stigmatized. I don't know why people expect us to stay alive and live despite our pain and suffering. I think that people believe that clinging to slipping life is a better alternative due to the glorification of life. People act like life is a "gift" and that it's "sacred". They also have false hope that things will get better for you. Most people are scared of death so the fact that someone died by their own hand is shocking to them.

 

[penguinl0v3s]

It's different because it means that you were suffering before death. But instead of acknowledging that everything leading up to that point was the terrible suffering (probably preventable in most cases), we point fingers to the act of escaping. Imagine you're on fire (thought of the homeless man on fire at UC Berkeley lmao), but the bystanders in a public place just watch you. But when you jump into the river, they shame you for it.

 

[R_N]

I think that suicide is seen as "different" because it's self-inflicted death. Some people actually consider suicide as self-murder. I think that suicide shouldn't be so taboo and stigmatized. I don't know why people expect us to stay alive and live despite our pain and suffering. I think that people believe that clinging to slipping life is a better alternative due to the glorification of life. People act like life is a "gift" and that it's "sacred". They also have false hope that things will get better for you. Most people are scared of death so the fact that someone died by their own hand is shocking to them.

You are most likely right and that is how majority sees life. There is also rationalizations people make about things they feel strongly about.

This is a different topic but to me even words are a tool for most to manipulate and shape their surroundings based on how they feel not what is closer to objectivity. I observed this in myself as well in others. For example in competetive settings people will get overwhelmed by emotions and they will try to manipulate others with words so they can take advantage in outcomes they disliked. Regain control.

So when it comes to life, and SI which is quite a strong instinct, you can bet people will say anything to protect it.

 

[Weltall]

Reply I made on another thread made me think about this.

Death is death. What difference does it make if someone wants to end it directly by their own hand? Why is it such a shocker?

Why is clinging to slipping life better alternative?

It's a "shocker" because the people that loved you now have pain in their heart.
It helps the person who is suffering, but it affects those that will miss you.
It's not selfish to ease yourself of pain, but it can hurt those that weren't ready to see you leave yet.

It's a scale that will always be unbalanced, and you can't please both parties.

The main focus should still always be: what do you want to do to make yourself happy?

 

[sserafim]

It's a "shocker" because the people that loved you now have pain in their heart.
It helps the person who is suffering, but it affects those that will miss you.
It's not selfish to ease yourself of pain, but it can hurt those that weren't ready to see you leave yet.

It's a scale that will always be unbalanced, and you can't please both parties.

The main focus should still always be: what do you want to do to make yourself happy?

What about accidental deaths then? Doesn't all death cause hurt to loved ones and affect those who will miss you? What makes suicide so different?

 

[tiger b]

It gets recorded on a different government chat.

 

[Weltall]

What about accidental deaths then? Doesn't all death cause hurt to loved ones and affect those who will miss you? What makes suicide so different?

Yes, all death hurts.
But one feels like an attack on their foundation.
A person can comprehend that "accidents happen", but it's more difficult to understand what motives someone had to commit suicide.

To a person, it's an attack on their knowledge of you.
They may have thought that there was nothing wrong with you, or that you seemed happy on the outside.
Then they begin to question what it was that was eating you up inside.
They have missing puzzle pieces, and it hurts them not being able to know the "true" you.

 

[eashanm]

A lot of non - suicidal people are actually commiting slow suicide by things such as drinking and smoking, yet they are shocked when someone takes their own life. Kinda hypocritical really.
Death is death wether by accident, suicide, or natural occurrence.
It's all the same thing to me.

You forgot to add Drugs and Medicine

 

[R_N]

You forgot to add Drugs and Medicine

Ain't that the truth. Meds fucked me more than anything else did health wise. Good job "cure".

 

[FuneralCry]

It really isn't and I hate how humans force their delusional worship of suffering onto other people.

The problem lies in humans with how they cruelly procreate and how despite this hellish reality they see suicide as always being worse than being tormented in this meaningless existence which is just insane to me.

In my case wanting to cease exist on my own terms is all that feels rational to me as it's suffering prevention, I'd always prefer to die on my own terms, I don't see any value in delaying the inevitable just to suffer more.
It just proves that humans are the worst species with how they deny the right to die in peace despite death being the only relief.

 

[gbi2]

Edit: this is in the wrong thread. oops (downside of using two browsers to keep access.

Illegal content

• promoting or facilitating suicide
• promoting self harm

There is probably more in the Bill that the government thinks gives it the right to protect fully grown adults from themselves but I think this is the crux of it.

They eagerly misinterpret the site to be doing the above, when it is doing nothing of the sort. Individual members could be guilty of laws, such as the bit that states helping someone commit suicide is a criminal offence (hence why I think I have been careful to not give advice but to just state my own findings and attempts) but you are fine with visiting the site discussing anything as long as you are not promoting or facilitating suicide, or self harm.

I think this example would be a good one:
If someone posted a question how could I kill myself? either don't answer to be sure you stay on the 'right' side of the law, or reply with something stating facts, so like "It is illegal for me in the UK to advise someone how to do that so I cannot offer advice. I tried it and this is what I tried: [explanation]. I am not suggesting you try this, it is just my experience.

Then really it is up to the person you reply to, to take the post in a convenient context for them. Possibly, disclaimers in every post might be the way to go. Maybe even a forum modification is needed that someone in the UK or other country prohibiting discussion can have as a signature stating their stance due to their residency. "Nothing I say is Advice"

Just a quick thought or two.

 

[R_N]

Edit: this is in the wrong thread. oops (downside of using two browsers to keep access.




There is probably more in the Bill that the government thinks gives it the right to protect fully grown adults from themselves but I think this is the crux of it.

They eagerly misinterpret the site to be doing the above, when it is doing nothing of the sort. Individual members could be guilty of laws, such as the bit that states helping someone commit suicide is a criminal offence (hence why I think I have been careful to not give advice but to just state my own findings and attempts) but you are fine with visiting the site discussing anything as long as you are not promoting or facilitating suicide, or self harm.

I think this example would be a good one:
If someone posted a question how could I kill myself? either don't answer to be sure you stay on the 'right' side of the law, or reply with something stating facts, so like "It is illegal for me in the UK to advise someone how to do that so I cannot offer advice. I tried it and this is what I tried: [explanation]. I am not suggesting you try this, it is just my experience.

Then really it is up to the person you reply to, to take the post in a convenient context for them. Possibly, disclaimers in every post might be the way to go. Maybe even a forum modification is needed that someone in the UK or other country prohibiting discussion can have as a signature stating their stance due to their residency. "Nothing I say is Advice"

Just a quick thought or two.

It is fine dw about it ;).

 

[gbi2]

Yeah I don't see it as any different but like with a lot of subjective matters, the popular vote prevails.
One the one hand you have the minority who say no one should have the freedom to end their own life. On the other hand you have people saying anyone should be able to end their life at any time. And on the mysteriously appearing third hand you have the majority who say killing yourself is fine is you are already terminally ill and in pain.

But 'subjective' is what it all is.

It is fine dw about it ;).

soz, done a bit of a better reply now, I hope.