How do you confront the emotional aspect of ctb?

[Ambivalent1]

We all are capable of intellectualizing the topic of ctb. It's easy to say things like "Well, I won't care about missing out on more life when I'm dead because I'll be dead, etc," but the emotional aspect seems to be the major obstacle. You can't reason with emotion, so what is one to do?

 

[Captive_Mind515]

You can laugh about how ludicrous all of this "life" thing actually is... how absurd it all is.

You're right, too much intellectualising can be a bad thing. And it doesn't bring total satisfaction, no matter how good you are at it.

I just see myself as a leaf floating in the wind. I don't have a purpose or a destination. I'm detached from any meaning. I just wanna be free!

 

[Ambivalent1]

You can laugh about how ludicrous all of this "life" thing actually is... how absurd it all is.

You're right, too much intellectualising can be a bad thing. And it doesn't bring total satisfaction, no matter how good you are at it.

I just see myself as a leaf floating in the wind. I don't have a purpose or a destination. I'm detached from any meaning. I just wanna be free!

Laugh at the monotony of daily life and its routines that lead to more of the same. Most days are the same day just with a little variation. It feels weird.

The satisfaction is brief, but if I were standing on a bridge, intellectualizing wouldn't be enough to get me over the barrier.

How does one achieve that outlook?

 

[vak]

Laugh at the monotony of daily life and its routines that lead to more of the same. Most days are the same day just with a little variation. It feels weird.

The satisfaction is brief, but if I were standing on a bridge, intellectualizing wouldn't be enough to get me over the barrier.

How does one achieve that outlook?

I mean that just sounds Nagelian, doesn't it? To look at the monotony of life with irony instead of despair and search for meaning. Maybe look into his teachings if you are interested?

 

[Ambivalent1]

I mean that just sounds Nagelian, doesn't it? To look at the monotony of life with irony instead of despair and search for meaning. Maybe look into his teachings if you are interested?

What are some examples of meaning that can be found in routine daily life?

 

[vak]

What are some examples of meaning that can be found in routine daily life?

The point is not to search for any meaning. Reading your posts today makes me think you could enjoy learning about absurdism, it might liberate you.

 

[Ambivalent1]

The point is not to search for any meaning. Reading your posts today makes me think you could enjoy learning about absurdism, it might liberate you.

I've read The Stranger. What else do you suggest? Absurdism and dealing with debilitating health problems don't seem to mesh well.

 

[333s]

to get me over the barrier

intellectualizing still can help. what stops you from it? what attaches you to life? if you cut off those things then you will basically cut off that "emotional part"
because you have nothing to lose and nothing to mourn
and speaking of jumping of the bridge, there are pharmacy to overcome SI..

I've read The Stranger. What else do you suggest? Absurdism and dealing with debilitating health problems don't seem to mesh well.

and sorry im not the person you're talking to but
personally i'd recommend reading Kierkegaard, especially The sickness unto death, since you have health problems :}

 

[vak]

I've read The Stranger. What else do you suggest? Absurdism and dealing with debilitating health problems don't seem to mesh well.

The classic that deals directly with the topic of suicide is "The Myth of Sisyphus." Even if you don't accept Camus's resolution (I don't), the philosophy is soothing for the soul if you have a rebellious nature and are struggling with external stressors. It is what gives me the strength to ctb ironically enough.

Kafka's "Metamorphosis" deals with health issues, but it's not a pleasant conclusion; it highlights the absurdity of the value of life in the eyes of others.

 

[vak]

Can you jot down some takeaways from the Sisyphus book?

At the end, there is the story of Sisyphus who, as a mortal punished by the gods for cheating Death, is forced to roll his boulder up a hill only to see it fall back down, repeating this for eternity. This is the original Greek story, but Camus extends it by saying that it's necessary to imagine Sisyphus being happy. There is no good ending for him; he is cursed to perform this one pointless task over and over. However, he can still rebel against his condition, not accepting defeat and making the best of what he has. It is still pointless to rebel, but since this life is the only existence Sisyphus has, he might as well make the most of it regardless of his situation.

 

[Ambivalent1]

At the end, there is the story of Sisyphus who, as a mortal punished by the gods for cheating Death, is forced to roll his boulder up a hill only to see it fall back down, repeating this for eternity. This is the original Greek story, but Camus extends it by saying that it's necessary to imagine Sisyphus being happy. There is no good ending for him; he is cursed to perform this one pointless task over and over. However, he can still rebel against his condition, not accepting defeat and making the best of what he has. It is still pointless to rebel, but since this life is the only existence Sisyphus has, he might as well make the most of it regardless of his situation.

I suppose I'm already making the best of my situation, but it's still a bad situation.

 

[vak]

I suppose I'm already making the best of my situation, but it's still a bad situation.

Well, then you might be an absurdist hero One of the point of the story is to stick it to the Gods and be free and authentic, without the worry of artificial boundaries. Everything humans create and think is by defintion absurd and you don't have to accept any of it if you so choose. That goes double for your own thoughts and behavior.

 

[Ambivalent1]

Well, then you might be an absurdist hero One of the point of the story is to stick it to the Gods and be free and authentic, without the worry of artificial boundaries. Everything humans create and think is by defintion absurd and you don't have to accept any of it if you so choose. That goes double for your own thoughts and behavior.

"There goes my hero. Watch him as he goes"
When do my thoughts and behavior matter?
Stick it to the gods by choosing to live with the health curses they give me? Seems like torture

 

[vak]

When do my thoughts and behavior matter?

I mean, they probably matter to you; that's the essence of human existence. And if you feel they prevent you from living an authentic life, sometimes showing them the middle finger is a good strategy.

Stick it to the gods by choosing to live with the health curses they give me? Seems like torture

Well, that's open to interpretation. If you follow Camus, then yes, you should continue living despite your difficulties. However, I don't align with him on this. He is often criticized for not sufficiently explaining his stance on life having intrinsic value.

I strongly believe that rebelling against your own biology, millions of years of evolution, and societal imperatives by choosing suicide as your rebellion against these artificial structures and the very idea of life itself is a valid option. Ultimately, what you're rebelling against doesn't matter as long as it aligns with your core values.

 

[Ambivalent1]

I mean, they probably matter to you; that's the essence of human existence. And if you feel they prevent you from living an authentic life, sometimes showing them the middle finger is a good strategy.


Well, that's open to interpretation. If you follow Camus, then yes, you should continue living despite your difficulties. However, I don't align with him on this. He is often criticized for not sufficiently explaining his stance on life having intrinsic value.

I strongly believe that rebelling against your own biology, millions of years of evolution, and societal imperatives by choosing suicide as your rebellion against these artificial structures is a valid option. Ultimately, what you're rebelling against doesn't matter as long as it aligns with your core values.

You can tell your thoughts to fuck off? I learned while meditating that thoughts will randomly appear and then continuously shift to new ones and then some thoughts, if you allow it, can take you on wild tangents.

Core values such as what in regard to ctb?

 

[onbekend]

Trillions of people have died since we as a species were making fires in caves, crafting tools using sticks, and building towns and cities. But nobody's death has ever been meaningful enough for me to cry about it. I probably have a bunch of relatives who died in war, or from disease, but do I hear about them? No. My own death might make a big impact to my family at the moment, but in the long run it would only be a small speed bump for them.

 

[Ambivalent1]

Trillions of people have died since we as a species were making fires in caves, crafting tools using sticks, and building towns and cities. But nobody's death has ever been meaningful enough for me to cry about it. I probably have a bunch of relatives who died in war, do I hear about them? No. My own death might make a big impact to my family at the moment, but in the long run it would only be a small speed bump for them.

109 billion people have died throughout history.

 

[onbekend]

You can laugh about how ludicrous all of this "life" thing actually is... how absurd it all is.

You're right, too much intellectualising can be a bad thing. And it doesn't bring total satisfaction, no matter how good you are at it.

I just see myself as a leaf floating in the wind. I don't have a purpose or a destination. I'm detached from any meaning. I just wanna be free!

I like your thinking.
We all search for meaning, but those of us on the forum are among some of the people who have realized that we have no purpose or meaning other than to die, because dying is an inevitability. There's no other goals in life, So why try to prevent it for as long as we can?

 

[Ambivalent1]

I like your thinking.
We all search for meaning, but those of us on the forum are among some of the people who have realized that we have no purpose or meaning other than to die, because dying is an inevitability. There's no other goals in life, So why try to prevent it for as long as we can?

It's hard to chase after goals when you know they'll just turn to dust in your hands eventually. No point in doing anything

 

[onbekend]

109 billion people have died throughout history.

Well yeah, my bad for the exaggeration I wrote there.

 

[vak]

You can tell your thoughts to fuck off?

Absolutely, at least that has been my experience (I won't claim it's universal). I've even ended therapy after realizing I could do just that. I often say things like, "I refuse to be controlled by this feeling," or "This is difficult for me, so I'll succeed out of spite." It's a kind of undirected anger that harms no one, serving as a spark in my life.

Core values such as what in regard to ctb?

Well, that's probably unique to each individual. For me, it's as simple as feeling I've experienced enough of life™. I disagree with the notion that I should just watch life repeat itself ad nauseam, waiting to perish. I know how to be happy and lead an enjoyable and fulfilling life, but it no longer holds enough interest for me to want to continue living. This might not make sense to many, but that's the beauty of freedom - it really really really doesn't matter.

 

[Ambivalent1]

Absolutely, at least that has been my experience (I won't claim it's universal). I've even ended therapy after realizing I could do just that. I often say things like, "I refuse to be controlled by this feeling," or "This is difficult for me, so I'll succeed out of spite." It's a kind of undirected anger that harms no one, serving as a spark in my life.


Well, that's probably unique to each individual. For me, it's as simple as feeling I've experienced enough of life™. I disagree with the notion that I should just watch life repeat itself ad nauseam, waiting to perish. I know how to be happy and lead an enjoyable and fulfilling life, but it no longer holds enough interest for me to want to continue living. This might not make sense to many, but that's the beauty of freedom - it really really really doesn't matter.

How do I practice that thought technique?

Are you middle age or above? I ask because it seems that's the point where one has done everything they've wanted to do and nothing is left but continuous repetition.

 

[Slow_Farewell]

Hmm... If it was me i'd look into what those emotions are, their common triggers. Then i'd look at myself and see which triggers are applicable and how I act on those triggers. Then proceed accordingly.

 

[Ambivalent1]

Hmm... If it was me i'd look into what those emotions are, their common triggers. Then i'd look at myself and see which triggers are applicable and how I act on those triggers. Then proceed accordingly.

Emotions such as fear in ctb and regret that you didn't succeed at fixing your life.

 

[vak]

How do I practice that thought technique?

As with everything, it's something you need to practice over and over until you internalize it, there are no shortcuts. Mantras are good exercise, once you catch yourself thinking or doing something, repeat your response ten times in your head. It will stick eventually as an automatic response. At least unless you are seriously mentally unwell, I can imagine that these tricks might not be as effective if you are deeply hurting.

Are you middle age or above? I ask because it seems that's the point where one has done everything they've wanted to do and nothing is left but continuous repetition.

Not that far from middle age, I'll be 34 very soon, I don't think 5 more years will make any meaningful difference looking back at my last five years.

 

[Ambivalent1]

As with everything, it's something you need to practice over and over until you internalize it, there are no shortcuts. Mantras are good exercise, once you catch yourself thinking or doing something, repeat your response ten times in your head. It will stick eventually as an automatic response. At least unless you are seriously mentally unwell, I can imagine that these tricks might not be as effective if you are deeply hurting.


Not that far from middle age, I'll be 34 very soon, I don't think 5 more years will make any meaningful difference.

Middle age is 40 lol
I am deeply hurting

 

[vak]

Middle age is 40 lol

Well I have like 15 years till 50, that's literally nothing considering how the time flies now.

I am deeply hurting

I'm really sorry to hear that, you can still try it. No shame in failing, we are complicated beings

 

[Slow_Farewell]

Emotions such as fear in ctb and regret that you didn't succeed at fixing your life.

Fear is a primary emotion.
Regret is not. It's a blending of other primary emotions.
Regardless though, the same thing still applies.
I'd look into exactly what I fear about CTB. is it the finality of it? is it the pain associated with the process?
On regret, it can still be managed. I'm 40, and statistically one cannot reach a certain age without having to regret about. But the fact that one managed to live as long as one has without the regret preventing growth in other aspects could be interpreted as being able to manage regret sucessfully.