How do i stop viewing death as evil and unnatural?

[Volatile]

Being raised Christian did me no favors in how I view death and dying

 

[Anon1337]

Death is extremely natural, it's part of life.

 

[Volatile]

Death is extremely natural, it's part of life.

And yet it's not part of life since death ends your life and isn't something you experience

 

[Anon1337]

And yet it's not part of life since death ends your life and isn't something you experience

Part of life is learning to deal with death. Whether that be the death of your cat or the death of your mother.

 

[starcrossedfate]

When your situation becomes desperate enough.

 

[bigj75]

I think death is a form of ultimate fairness to balance out the unfairness of life. But even then life is pretty damn unfair that maybe death still isn't fair enough.

 

[blurr21]

Try reading scriptures from the old testtament,new testament,islam,as well as hinduism like history like it actually happened..gtta believe in some entity that moves this body..this world is just a passageway to eternal life that awaits us..and theres grace given in all religions there are instances of people who werent the best suited for the eternal but still made it..

 

[Kev]

"Evil" and "unnatural" are human-made concepts. The universe does not care about morality or life. Death is simply a phenomenon that happens in order for the next generation of life to be tested. All of life is plain matter that somehow managed to replicate itself, adapt itself to its surroundings better with each replication, then rid itself of the old copies. Many trillions of cycles of life and death have happened in the long, slow march of evolution. We are just the result of some extremely rare phenomenon and each life form, including each human being, is just some variable in this multibillion year long experiment. The very fundamental core of what we are (Earth based organism) dictates that we grow, pass on genetic information, and die to make room for the next cycle. Death is no less natural to us than sex or eating or puberty; dying is what all life is meant to do.

 

[Ghab]

Death is the most natural think in the world next to birth. If you're born, that means you're gonna die someday. It's not evil at all, it's just a fact.

 

[Final Escape]

Being raised Christian did me no favors in how I view death and dying

It's not evil or unnatural unless somebody kills you, u die of some deadly disease prematurely caused by the additives in our food and water lol! I have heard 99% of all the animals that have ever lived on planet earth are extinct. Humans haven't been around that long in comparison to some of the species that are still here and thriving. You can look at it like, I'm just a blip in this life and the majority of our genes will probably not be around in many thousands or even hundreds of years. George Soros is doing a fine job of destroying formerly majority white countries.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

Life is just hyped because we're programmed to seize the moment, spend, spend, spend to make corporations better off, etc. It's just marketing bullshit really. Ever see a Coke commercial? It's all "live it up, drink a coke!" Like err, ok. People fear death because they fear losing things. But if you don't have anything to lose, the fear starts falling away.

 

[Volatile]

Life is just hyped because we're programmed to seize the moment, spend, spend, spend to make corporations better off, etc. It's just marketing bullshit really. Ever see a Coke commercial? It's all "live it up, drink a coke!" Like err, ok. People fear death because they fear losing things. But if you don't have anything to lose, the fear starts falling away.

I hate how society creates the illusion that life is super important and significant. It's all a farce.

 

[weedoge]

I think you hit the nail on the head, the way you were raised would've had a huge influence. I see absolutely everything about myself as a result of my experiences, as much as I believe what I do very strongly and trust that they're my own beliefs, I also know that I'd never have obtained them if, to give an extreme example, I had been born into some disconnected tribe in the amazon or on some island. I may still have suffered greatly but I'd have very different opinions on my options for dealing with that and probably wouldn't have developed anything close to the views I have now no matter what.

I just think that death is neither good nor bad, it's a very neutral thing. I'm not sure how it could be considered evil or unnatural, things have been dying ever since life came about. There cannot be death without life and vice versa, this is why it's natural in my mind. Actually I'll correct myself, it just is natural to me. A very neutral and natural expected end, I use my experiences and beliefs to understand that in a little bit more detail.

You're right that life isn't super important or significant. Have you ever considered that if you weren't born in the situation that you were, but a baby were conceived in some other place and time, would it still be you? Would you have ever existed if it weren't for your exact moment of conception happening? For those people who never become famous, make a hugely permanent valuable contribution to the world or anything similar, then what is life really? Other than a time wasting experience, engaging in odd earthly pleasures until we can't anymore. There's nothing immoral about deciding you're done after spending time to consider everything as much as you're able.

Edit: and to expand a little bit on what @Final Escape had to say, if human life were really meaningful. Where does that end? Would it be inherently tragic if a meteor hit the planet and wiped humans out? Was it tragic that the dinosaurs wiped out? Not really because no creature was able to perceive it as tragic, surely? Things being tragic, wrong, immoral etc all came from our ability to process things in such a complex way. One might justify living a full life by saying that you can make your own meaning and enjoy your own experiences which is wonderful for the people who are able to do that, but what about when that life ends? Then you might justify that life by saying that they made a worthwhile contribution, even if only to their family and friends, it has a domino effect right?

but what then when the entire human race dies out? Where all the previous suicides still "wrong" or "evil"? How could they be when the ultimate end was the annihilation of everything anyway?

I find it very hard to reach the conclusion that suicide or death is wrong by any amount of logic.

 

[throwaway123]

"Evil" and "unnatural" are human-made concepts. The universe does not care about morality or life. Death is simply a phenomenon that happens in order for the next generation of life to be tested. All of life is plain matter that somehow managed to replicate itself, adapt itself to its surroundings better with each replication, then rid itself of the old copies. Many trillions of cycles of life and death have happened in the long, slow march of evolution. We are just the result of some extremely rare phenomenon and each life form, including each human being, is just some variable in this multibillion year long experiment. The very fundamental core of what we are (Earth based organism) dictates that we grow, pass on genetic information, and die to make room for the next cycle. Death is no less natural to us than sex or eating or puberty; dying is what all life is meant to do.

Why live it all when all life is meant to die?

 

[itsallover]

It's not natural to take your own life anyway you look it. Humans are animals too and most of what we do is to survive. I don't believe it's in any way evil though. I've been to church and spoke to priests and even monks about this. Their usual response is that you will go straight to hell. If you really think about it you'll realize there is no heaven hell or purgatory. It's all a man made idea religion and god that was used in much tougher times to find reason and comfort. Really hell is here on earth if anything where it's just really controlled chaos. You are not doing anything wrong to put an end to nonstop pain and suffering that has no other answer. I never thought suicide could be rational but in some cases it truly is.

 

[Jon]

I was raised as a Christian as well but you didn't state whether you still are or have since changed your beliefs. I agree with most of the comments here, and a firm believer in evolution. If you want to see how natural death is watch David Attenborough's natural history series; the best are the first three: Life on Earth, The Living Planet, and Trials of Life. Unlike his more recent ones, especially the first one goes from how each living being came into being and became extinct, and leads up to the final episode which treats us, homo sapiens, as just part of the "chain" which like virtually all living animals preceeding us, will eventually perish to be replaced by others. All through the episodes, even the more recent ones show just how difficult, cruel, and "unfair" life can be for every living creature, through perhaps Trials of Life is best at doing that. The series really makes you think about not only the existence of life itself, but consequently our own lives.

If on the other hand you are still a Christian, then it does become a little trickier, as Christianity is perhaps the single biggest cause of our archaic laws that are against euthanasia, not just for the chronically ill but for all adults. Though I don't doubt that for Western countries it's just a matter of time, though regrettably probably not in our lifetime, at least not for all adults for any reason, or even better not even having to give a reason (although I did read briefly about something in Belgium that anyone could go for lethal injection, but haven't had chance to fully read up on it yet).

 

[Jon]

I hate how society creates the illusion that life is super important and significant. It's all a farce.

Yeah, my personal favourite is "life is precious"! Where exactly did they get that from?! Just look at the children in Africa starving or having their eyes gnawed open from the inside out by some parasite, or those born with ghastly deformities who die shortly after (despite the best efforts of the doctors to keep the creature alive), or those who suffer from bullying, day in and day out (thanks to social media bullying doesn't now stop when the whistle blows). And how could they ever judge life as ever being precious when they have no recollection of death, as we were once all dead, and to die is only to return to our former state. And if there's nothing bad in death, there is too much good in it, for death, and death alone is the only thing that can happen to us that is guaranteed to take away all pain and suffering. If we were immortal, then it is death which would undoubtedly be regarded as precious.

 

[weedoge]

Yeah, my personal favourite is "life is precious"! Where exactly did they get that from?! Just look at the children in Africa starving or having their eyes gnawed open from the inside out by some parasite, or those born with ghastly deformities who die shortly after (despite the best efforts of the doctors to keep the creature alive), or those who suffer from bullying, day in and day out (thanks to social media bullying doesn't now stop when the whistle blows). And how could they ever judge life as ever being precious when they have no recollection of death, as we were once all dead, and to die is only to return to our former state. And if there's nothing bad in death, there is too much good in it, for death, and death alone is the only thing that can happen to us that is guaranteed to take away all pain and suffering. If we were immortal, then it is death which would undoubtedly be regarded as precious.

What seems more appropriate is for people to say "I believe my life is precious and I can't understand why you don't, it ignites a lot of fear within me so you must live for my sake"....

Good post overall.

 

[Jon]

What seems more appropriate is for people to say "I believe my life is precious and I can't understand why you don't, it ignites a lot of fear within me so you must live for my sake"....

Good post overall.

Yeah I was going to add life is precious to some while a living nightmare for others. In fact many times when I was younger I did feel that life was precious, especially at Christmas and while at uni. So it can be regarded as precious by all at some points of their life, as life is unpredictable and always subject to change. Though I absolutely agree that no one should interfere or block any attempts for other grown adults, especially if they don't even know the person. I, like others have noted, doubt their sincerity and intentions for doing so in any case. But luckily we don't have to listen to them ;)

 

[weedoge]

Yeah I was going to add life is precious to some while a living nightmare for others. In fact many times when I was younger I did feel that life was precious, especially at Christmas and while at uni. So it can be regarded as precious by all at some points of their life, as life is unpredictable and always subject to change. Though I absolutely agree that no one should interfere or block any attempts for other grown adults, especially if they don't even know the person. I, like others have noted, doubt their sincerity and intentions for doing so in any case. But luckily we don't have to listen to them ;)

One thing I resent also is whenever I read about suicide, mental illness suffering, etc it only ever seems to be from the perspective of a developed country. If these things were written with all possible circumstances considered they would make a lot more sense and probably make for some important discourse. Unfortunately we only ever read from the perspective of "depressed whities", huh, how odd.

but yes to address your point, I definitely feel the "preciousness" of life is a purely subjective thing, just like the meaning or point in life, there is no inherent preciousness, there's no inherent positivity or negativity to life. Life just is. Everything else is based on our perception and experience which is also subjective.

 

[Jon]

One thing I resent also is whenever I read about suicide, mental illness suffering, etc it only ever seems to be from the perspective of a developed country. If these things were written with all possible circumstances considered they would make a lot more sense and probably make for some important discourse. Unfortunately we only ever read from the perspective of "depressed whities", huh, how odd.

but yes to address your point, I definitely feel the "preciousness" of life is a purely subjective thing, just like the meaning or point in life, there is no inherent preciousness, there's no inherent positivity or negativity to life. Life just is. Everything else is based on our perception and experience which is also subjective.

I personally think that most academic scholars, historians, and generally those who are able to think rationally without any religious beliefs actually do believe that suicide is part of life, and perfectly justifiable in certain circumstances. However, due to the nature of the Internet in general, the fact it's open to everyone whatever their age, and the fact that even suggesting that someone could justifiably (whether he suffers from depression or not) take his life could ruin his career. So they keep quiet on the matter.

The reason we only hear from the depressed whites is that (a) most of us only read in English and (b) the suicide rates among whites are second only to indigenous people, though this could be that suicides are largely unreported in black-majority developing countries which are largely religious at the request of the family, or by simply underfunded or less equipped police and medical staff.

 

[weedoge]

I personally think that most academic scholars, historians, and generally those who are able to think rationally without any religious beliefs actually do believe that suicide is part of life, and perfectly justifiable in certain circumstances. However, due to the nature of the Internet in general, the fact it's open to everyone whatever their age, and the fact that even suggesting that someone could justifiably (whether he suffers from depression or not) take his life could ruin his career. So they keep quiet on the matter.

The reason we only hear from the depressed whites is that (a) most of us only read in English and (b) the suicide rates among whites are second only to indigenous people, though this could be that suicides are largely unreported in black-majority developing countries which are largely religious at the request of the family, or by simply underfunded or less equipped police and medical staff.

Honestly I think underage people accessing inappropriate content is a parental issue that should solve these discussions before they even happen. In hindsight I definitely wish I wasn't given free reign of the internet until at least say age 16. As fucked as it sounds, I think long distance relationships ruined me a little bit, skewed my priorities and delayed some important parts of my development. Sorry tangent..

 

[Jon]

Honestly I think underage people accessing inappropriate content is a parental issue that should solve these discussions before they even happen. In hindsight I definitely wish I wasn't given free reign of the internet until at least say age 16. As fucked as it sounds, I think long distance relationships ruined me a little bit, skewed my priorities and delayed some important parts of my development. Sorry tangent..

I think it's a tricky situation, the Internet has opened up a wealth of information that wasn't available when I was younger. When I was a child the only thing on the Internet was porn! But in all fairness it must be difficult for parents to block sites, as children know how to get around the Internet far better than their parents. I've stuck to avoiding social media in general and biased news sites, and instead focused on hobby forums such as photography and generally sites and forums of interest that are mostly made up of civilised members. I also read books a lot more than I did. Remember everything you read, see, or hear cannot fail to cause some impression on you or excite some emotion and thus changes you in some way or another, so it's best to impose self-restraint on which sites you access.

 

[weedoge]

I think it's a tricky situation, the Internet has opened up a wealth of information that wasn't available when I was younger. When I was a child the only thing on the Internet was porn! But in all fairness it must be difficult for parents to block sites, as children know how to get around the Internet far better than their parents. I've stuck to avoiding social media in general and biased news sites, and instead focused on hobby forums such as photography and generally sites and forums of interest that are mostly made up of civilised members. I also read books a lot more than I did. Remember everything you read, see, or hear cannot fail to cause some impression on you or excite some emotion and thus changes you in some way or another, so it's best to impose self-restraint on which sites you access.

Children just shouldn't be left on the internet unattended imo, probably moreso nowadays. I could talk on a lot of specific reasons why I think this is the case but I don't want to derail. Yes of course it's best to impose some self-restraint, but children and younger people don't do that.

for example, check out Elsagate. Shit is fucked up and I've personally come across some videos that fit the more sinister explanations for the phenomenon rather than just "it's all algorithmic" which people like to pass it off with. Children nowadays are left to be minded by youtube auto plays etc, you may have heard about this. It's an issue that came to my attention as my niece is now also massively minded by her tablet.

I understand the issue is a VERY tough one because I was never able to restrain myself from certain things that definitely contributed to my downfall, but on the same token I don't think I could've coped without the support I gained from friends from age 14 up when my relationship with my mother was breaking down. This is why modern tech is conflicting and scary to me in general, no matter how much I think about it I can't see any solution for impressionable shit vulnerable people like me.

 

[Jon]

Children just shouldn't be left on the internet unattended imo, probably moreso nowadays. I could talk on a lot of specific reasons why I think this is the case but I don't want to derail. Yes of course it's best to impose some self-restraint, but children and younger people don't do that.

for example, check out Elsagate. Shit is fucked up and I've personally come across some videos that fit the more sinister explanations for the phenomenon rather than just "it's all algorithmic" which people like to pass it off with. Children nowadays are left to be minded by youtube auto plays etc, you may have heard about this. It's an issue that came to my attention as my niece is now also massively minded by her tablet.

I understand the issue is a VERY tough one because I was never able to restrain myself from certain things that definitely contributed to my downfall, but on the same token I don't think I could've coped without the support I gained from friends from age 14 up when my relationship with my mother was breaking down. This is why modern tech is conflicting and scary to me in general, no matter how much I think about it I can't see any solution for impressionable shit vulnerable people like me.

You're not alone in thinking like this, a former Facebook executive said he felt "tremendous guilt" over his work which he believes is "ripping apart the social fabric of how society works". The ones who suffer, ultimately as you say, are the most vulnerable and impressionable, which just so happens to be the youngest. It's almost like a huge scientific experiment where we are all the guinea pigs.

But the ones who gave you support when you had difficulties with your mum were your real friends, and there's no substitute for real friends. The more time you spend with them, the stronger your relationships will be, and the easier it will be as you get older to form new friendships. Modern tech can easily be avoided, it's designed especially to give you a short burst of dopamine (such as when you get a "like"), but remember none of this is all important, and doesn't in any way contribute to you as a person nor help you attain peace of mind. Just treat social media, viewing posts and pics and the Internet in general as a bad-habit, and like any bad habit, it can be reduced then eliminated by replacing the bad habit with a good habit. Though everything is easier said then done, and it requires perseverance, willpower, and commitment.

We just have to accept the status quo and the world we find ourselves in, or not, depending on the individual. Remember as well you could pick any year in human history and there was never a time when life was easy; plagues, famines, wars, have always been present. Every age came with it's own problems, each one presented a different challenge and required a different strategy to cope with it.

 

[weedoge]

You're not alone in thinking like this, a former Facebook executive said he felt "tremendous guilt" over his work which he believes is "ripping apart the social fabric of how society works". The ones who suffer, ultimately as you say, are the most vulnerable and impressionable, which just so happens to be the youngest. It's almost like a huge scientific experiment where we are all the guinea pigs.

But the ones who gave you support when you had difficulties with your mum were your real friends, and there's no substitute for real friends. The more time you spend with them, the stronger your relationships will be, and the easier it will be as you get older to form new friendships. Modern tech can easily be avoided, it's designed especially to give you a short burst of dopamine (such as when you get a "like"), but remember none of this is all important, and doesn't in any way contribute to you as a person nor help you attain peace of mind. Just treat social media, viewing posts and pics and the Internet in general as a bad-habit, and like any bad habit, it can be reduced then eliminated by replacing the bad habit with a good habit. Though everything is easier said then done, and it requires perseverance, willpower, and commitment.

We just have to accept the status quo and the world we find ourselves in, or not, depending on the individual. Remember as well you could pick any year in human history and there was never a time when life was easy; plagues, famines, wars, have always been present. Every age came with it's own problems, each one presented a different challenge and required a different strategy to cope with it.

There are certain parts of myself I just can't change, certain things I've learned to rely on, certain behaviours I don't feel comfortable trying to stop yet I know I can't go on being the same. There is no other way, I find that all the issues I have in my life mean so little yet they feel so insanely large to me, even though I know logically they're absolutely nothing. I come to the conclusion that the easiest way out is also not a deplorable way out. best of luck to those left living tbh

 

[Jon]

There are certain parts of myself I just can't change, certain things I've learned to rely on, certain behaviours I don't feel comfortable trying to stop yet I know I can't go on being the same. There is no other way, I find that all the issues I have in my life mean so little yet they feel so insanely large to me, even though I know logically they're absolutely nothing. I come to the conclusion that the easiest way out is also not a deplorable way out. best of luck to those left living tbh

It's difficult to change completely, but just as drops of water over many years gradually erode hardened rock, so too can little changes gradually reduce or even eradicate those characteristics that one would prefer not to have. And we are not so hardened like rock. It just takes time, writing daily, self-reflection and self-address, and relentlessly studying oneself are the best way at eliminating those faults.

I'm primarily studying at how to handle pain, as it's what I'm most concerned about. I know there will be pain in death, as I've already done some "test runs" on the partial hanging method. So I'm studying how to face pain so that when the time comes I won't back out. From what I read, especially from Cicero's On Bearing Pain, one just needs patience and to constantly fill his mind with encouragement and to convince himself that soon the pain will be over, which it surely will be. One such quote of his is as follows, describing the best way to handle pain:

He will rouse himself, prepare and arm himself, to oppose pain as he would an enemy. If you inquire what arms he will provide himself with, they will be contention, encouragement, discourse with himself.
​

But I'm yet to be fully convinced and haven't yet managed to remove all fear of pain, which is why I know it takes a huge amount of study and practice to change our thoughts, which have been deeply imbedded within us since a young age, and particularly the fear of pain and death are innate to all of us. Though death itself I'm relatively at ease about, it's the inevitable pain that precedes it that troubles me most.

But study those faults which you feel are the most undesirable and work out ways to overcome them. There are plenty of resources about how to do that. No faults are unique to one person; what you feel you can guarantee countless others have felt before.

 

[weedoge]

It's difficult to change completely, but just as drops of water over many years gradually erode hardened rock, so too can little changes gradually reduce or even eradicate those characteristics that one would prefer not to have. And we are not so hardened like rock. It just takes time, writing daily, self-reflection and self-address, and relentlessly studying oneself are the best way at eliminating those faults.

I'm primarily studying at how to handle pain, as it's what I'm most concerned about. I know there will be pain in death, as I've already done some "test runs" on the partial hanging method. So I'm studying how to face pain so that when the time comes I won't back out. From what I read, especially from Cicero's On Bearing Pain, one just needs patience and to constantly fill his mind with encouragement and to convince himself that soon the pain will be over, which it surely will be. One such quote of his is as follows, describing the best way to handle pain:

He will rouse himself, prepare and arm himself, to oppose pain as he would an enemy. If you inquire what arms he will provide himself with, they will be contention, encouragement, discourse with himself.
​

But I'm yet to be fully convinced and haven't yet managed to remove all fear of pain, which is why I know it takes a huge amount of study and practice to change our thoughts, which have been deeply imbedded within us since a young age, and particularly the fear of pain and death are innate to all of us. Though death itself I'm relatively at ease about, it's the inevitable pain that precedes it that troubles me most.

But study those faults which you feel are the most undesirable and work out ways to overcome them. There are plenty of resources about how to do that. No faults are unique to one person; what you feel you can guarantee countless others have felt before.

I'm being purposely vague, but it's not that simple. I've been able to do it with some or even many flaws I perceived within myself, but in doing that I brought on many others. I don't want to spend decades trying to fix my psyche to live a fraction of the life i dreamed of

 

[Jon]

I'm being purposely vague, but it's not that simple. I've been able to do it with some or even many flaws I perceived within myself, but in doing that I brought on many others. I don't want to spend decades trying to fix my psyche to live a fraction of the life i dreamed of

What exactly was the life you dreamed of?

 

[weedoge]

What exactly was the life you dreamed of?

I couldn't possibly write that up honestly