How can I hide that it was suicide?

[Deleted member 23726]

I was thinking of working at a gas company so I can enter a room filled with nitrogen. THAT or if anyone can suggest a way for me to hide my suicide act? I know someone needs to remove The items, but i dont know who would volunteer

 

[Steamm]

You can't.

 

[Kat!]

If you're living in a first world country, chances are you cannot.
In the modern era of crime scene analysis, forensics, and autopsy accuracies, they will find out what happened to you.
I personally believe just flat out killing yourself would add less pain on your family because they won't feel the need to re-investigate and go through court proceedings, because in some cases families do not stop at a simple "it was a suicide" report from the police. Sometimes they may not believe what actually happened.

 

[Deleted member 23726]

If you're living in a first world country, chances are you cannot.
In the modern era of crime scene analysis, forensics, and autopsy accuracies, they will find out what happened to you.
I personally believe just flat out killing yourself would add less pain on your family because they won't feel the need to re-investigate and go through court proceedings, because in some cases families do not stop at a simple "it was a suicide" report from the police. Sometimes they may not believe what actually happened.

But i read in final exit that they cannot tell that you committed suicide if its through the nitrogen method. Is this not true anymore?

 

[Lotus]

There's probably too many security factors involved to make this a reliable method. In general speaking, you can see a lot of "hidden suicides" in car crashes. In my country, it's not allowed to cover suicides in the news, but since a car incident is of "general interest to the public" they usually have a brief cover about it. Sometimes it's clear that the intention was probably suicidal, but in most cases it's tough to say. I'm not encouraging you to do anything like this, but the easiest way is often the best to cover up a suicide. As long as you don't involve other innocents, but that's just my personal opinion. I'm not here to judge.

 

[Aap]

You are looking at the wrong method, as any method involving nitrogen would leave a tank. The methods most likely to be obscured would be a drug overdose, gun accident if creativity is used, or an autoerotic accident. Single vehicle car crashes are the most likely to fail and likely to harm others of the options mentioned.

 

[Gaybonez]

If you have to ask.......

 

[All washed up]

Do you actually have a job offer?
I'd like a job at a gas company or anywhere for that matter

 

[Deleted member 23726]

You are looking at the wrong method, as any method involving nitrogen would leave a tank. The methods most likely to be obscured would be a drug overdose, gun accident if creativity is used, or an autoerotic accident. Single vehicle car crashes are the most likely to fail and likely to harm others of the options mentioned.

But if someone removed the tank, would they know I committed suicide with nitrogen asphyxiation?

 

[Aap]

You are going to get someone arrested. For example, with a mask, there will most likely be distinct blood pooling around your face where the mask was.

 

[Deleted member 23726]

You are going to get someone arrested. For example, with a mask, there will most likely be distinct blood pooling around your face where the mask was.

You mean the mask will be underlined with redness where it was placed on my face?

 

[Aap]

I'm saying you will get someone arrested trying to do what you are describing.

 

[Gnip]

No problem. Poison hemlock root can easily be mistaken for something edible like white carrots or parsnips. If you eat a meal containing poisonous plants, it would probably be assumed to be an accident. There are plenty of lethal plants which can be made to seem edible. In the 1971 movie "The Beguiled," Clint Eastwood's starring character was killed by eating poisonous mushrooms deliberately prepared for him in a meal. (The death scene is the holy grail for the acting profession, and Eastwood produced the best death scene of his career at the conclusion of The Beguiled.)

Offhand, that seems to be the most foolproof way to die without the death being an apparent suicide, accidental ingestion.

Another way would be via carbon monoxide poisoning, if you were to have a carbon monoxide detector deliberately containing a used and expended battery. In such a case, accidental death might again be the conclusion, as carbon monoxide deaths occur as accidents routinely.

If you have a known allergen like peanut butter, that can provide for a perfect suicide or murder. It's been many years, but I recall a murder mystery on British television years ago where the murderer prevailed, having used an allergen to kill his victim in a completely unsolvable crime. (The only potential for the murderer to be arrested would have been via confession. There will never be any scientific technology which could forensically produce an arrest and conviction in such a case without a confession.)

Most crimes are forever perfect and eternally unsolvable. This can be extended to making suicides look completely accidental without any assistance. My own brother is allergic to bees. He could easily get himself deliberately stung by a bee if he wanted to kill himself and made it look accidental, dying with the phone in his hand as if to call the emergency number.

 

[Deleted member 23726]

You are going to get someone arrested. For example, with a mask, there will most likely be distinct blood pooling around your face where the mask was.

You mean the mask will be underlined with redness where it was placed on my face? Or do you mean there

I'm saying you will get someone arrested trying to do what you are describing.

yeah I know but you said something about the mask too

 

[Aap]

I know what I said. I'm saying for every issue you try to obscure by involving someone with inert gas, you are creating two more you haven't considered.

 

[Kat!]

But i read in final exit that they cannot tell that you committed suicide if its through the nitrogen method. Is this not true anymore?

I'm not sure about this method. As someone said, though, leaving anything behind would account for evidence.
Drowning, OD, or dying somewhere no one would find you in general are all ways that could possibly be inconspicuous.
But again though, most families want a body or they don't feel as if they have closure. So OD or drowning would work in theory.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I think a lot of people who die by nitrogen and have someone remove the evidence are already sick, so an autopsy is not as likely to be performed.

This report leads me to believe that if you're young with no health issues and there's an autopsy, they will be able to determine that you died by nitrogen. Edit: Then they might go looking for who assisted you. With no equipment, they would have to assume homicide or assisted suicide.

 

[Gnip]

I think a lot of people who die by nitrogen and have someone remove the evidence are already sick, so an autopsy is not as likely to be performed.

This report leads me to believe that if you're young with no health issues and there's an autopsy, they will be able to determine that you died by nitrogen. Edit: Then they might go looking for who assisted you. With no equipment, they would have to assume homicide or assisted suicide.

Deaths by unexplained arrhythmias do occur, and one such highly publicized incident was when professional wrestler Jerry "The King" Lawler sustained a heart attack on live television after wrestling a match earlier in the card. He closed his eyes, and the next thing he knew, he was in a hospital bed. He had no blockages, nothing which an autopsy would have been able to explain, his heart simply stopped beating spontaneously. He's speculated that absorbing a succession of elbow drops to the chest during his match may have precipitated his heart attack, but there are clips of him back at the broadcast table right before his heart attack putting on his head set, and he looks completely normal and sounded completely normal on the microphone right before the sudden loud snoring began which signaled the heart attack that caused his heart to stop beating for around 20 minutes. (If he'd been alone, he would be dead.)

Hypothetically, an assistant with a large tank of pure nitrogen and a blower could blow pure nitrogen onto the face of the decedent, then scram with the equipment, leaving no trace of any crime.

On an episode of Chicago PD that my parents were watching, an entire sleeping family was knocked out by a burst of nitrous oxide into their house via the outdoor ventilation system. Artistic license required that the burglars left telltale clues behind, but the story very easily could have been a completely unsolvable murder with the use of industrial nitrogen and no home invasion.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Deaths by unexplained arrhythmias do occur, and one such highly publicized incident was when professional wrestler Jerry "The King" Lawler sustained a heart attack on live television after wrestling a match earlier in the card. He closed his eyes, and the next thing he knew, he was in a hospital bed. He had no blockages, nothing which an autopsy would have been able to explain, his heart simply stopped beating spontaneously. He's speculated that absorbing a succession of elbow drops to the chest during his match may have precipitated his heart attack, but there are clips of him back at the broadcast table right before his heart attack putting on his head set, and he looks completely normal and sounded completely normal on the microphone right before the sudden loud snoring began which signaled the heart attack that caused his heart to stop beating for around 20 minutes. (If he'd been alone, he would be dead.)

Hypothetically, an assistant with a large tank of pure nitrogen and a blower could blow pure nitrogen onto the face of the decedent, then scram with the equipment, leaving no trace of any crime.

On an episode of Chicago PD that my parents were watching, an entire sleeping family was knocked out by a burst of nitrous oxide into their house via the outdoor ventilation system. Artistic license required that the burglars left telltale clues behind, but the story very easily could have been a completely unsolvable murder with the use of industrial nitrogen and no home invasion.

Perhaps I'm overlooking something, but I don't see how this relates to my comment you quoted.

The following is the part of the report I linked that gives me pause about nitrogen not being detected as the cause of death:

"The breath regulator (open-circuit type) used allowed inhalation of nitrogen without addition of open air, and the full-face diving mask assured aspiration of the gas even during the time of unconsciousness. At autopsy, we found the typical signs of suffocation. Toxicological analysis revealed 94.7% content of nitrogen in alveolar air. "

 

[Aap]

Do you know how asinine you sound referencing a fictional TV show using a different gas that can't cause unconsciousness except in concentrations that has insufficient oxygen to support life?

alveolar nitrogen/oxygen ratio would be a tip-off that nitrogen gas was the cause of death on autopsy. There are ways around this, but it adds another level of complexity to a Rube Goldberg, guaranteed to make a felon out of the accomplice, plan.

 

[Dead beat dad]

I was thinking of working at a gas company so I can enter a room filled with nitrogen. THAT or if anyone can suggest a way for me to hide my suicide act? I know someone needs to remove The items, but i dont know who would volunteer

Some might suggest getting sloshed and drowning might make look like an accident or maybe a murder (I think accident is preferable as less authorities to deal).
Question is do you want people to think you were careless... Actually scratch that who cares what people think.
This dark place becomes us brother, I'm sorry you're feeling this.
If there is light and love in the world then I hope it shines on you.

Love and respect

DBD

 

[Deleted member 23726]

You are looking at the wrong method, as any method involving nitrogen would leave a tank. The methods most likely to be obscured would be a drug overdose, gun accident if creativity is used, or an autoerotic accident. Single vehicle car crashes are the most likely to fail and likely to harm others of the options mentioned.

Is SN painful? Or yew seeds?

 

[Gnip]

Perhaps I'm overlooking something, but I don't see how this relates to my comment you quoted.

The following is the part of the report I linked that gives me pause about nitrogen not being detected as the cause of death:

"The breath regulator (open-circuit type) used allowed inhalation of nitrogen without addition of open air, and the full-face diving mask assured aspiration of the gas even during the time of unconsciousness. At autopsy, we found the typical signs of suffocation. Toxicological analysis revealed 94.7% content of nitrogen in alveolar air. "

An autopsy does not guarantee that a cause will be identified. (For example, a heart arrhythmia.) A special study would have to be conducted to specifically identify the nitrogen content in alveolar air, but this level of scrutiny would not be undertaken without obvious cause for suspicion.

I should mention that I knew the pathologists at the hospital where I worked after high school, watched autopsies being performed, saw how the results were evaluated and recorded, and read numerous autopsy reports (including my own grandmother's) in an era before modern HIPPA and confidentiality. Autopsies today are on the decline from the frequency with which they were then performed, and if a death is not self evidently suspicious, the catch-all conclusion of arrhythmia is commonly drawn to close the matter.

When a death known or suspected to be caused by suffocation comes in, of course that will be expressly examined and confirmed, as it was in the sensationalized accidental death of Thelma Todd in Hollywood 85 years ago from carbon monoxide. (Yes, if a coroner was specifically looking for nitrogen hypoxia in 1935, it would have been found, but it first has to be suspected to be detected.)

 

[Deleted member 23726]

An autopsy does not guarantee that a cause will be identified. (For example, a heart arrhythmia.) A special study would have to be conducted to specifically identify the nitrogen content in alveolar air, but this level of scrutiny would not be undertaken without obvious cause for suspicion.

I should mention that I knew the pathologists at the hospital where I worked after high school, watched autopsies being performed, saw how the results were evaluated and recorded, and read numerous autopsy reports (including my own grandmother's) in an era before modern HIPPA and confidentiality. Autopsies today are on the decline from the frequency with which they were then performed, and if a death is not self evidently suspicious, the catch-all conclusion of arrhythmia is commonly drawn to close the matter.

When a death known or suspected to be caused by suffocation comes in, of course that will be expressly examined and confirmed, as it was in the sensationalized accidental death of Thelma Todd in Hollywood 85 years ago from carbon monoxide. (Yes, if a coroner was specifically looking for nitrogen hypoxia in 1935, it would have been found, but it first has to be suspected to be detected.)

So if nitrogen tanks werent in the "crime scene", they would immediately assume its arrhythmia? Doesnt the nitrogen method turn people blue? Also, nitrogen IS detectable but theres a specific test to be done for it right? Are there specific symptoms that nitrogen asphyxiation would cause the person?

 

[Aap]

You don't seem to be listening to anything being posted here. Inert gas is not a viable method to disguise a suicide. Full stop.

 

[Gnip]

So if nitrogen tanks weren't in the "crime scene", they would immediately assume its arrhythmia? Doesn't the nitrogen method turn people blue? Also, nitrogen IS detectable but there's a specific test to be done for it right? Are there specific symptoms that nitrogen asphyxiation would cause the person?

Many things can turn living and dead people cyanotic and arrhythmia is certainly among them. Concerning nitrogen hypoxia specifically, I have been away from the health care workplace for decades now, so I can't comment on what those cases might look like. I have seen instances of carbon monoxide poisoning with the telltale pinkish "cherry red" hue that Thelma Todd was found with.

How long the body has been dead can be one variable with respect to appearance.

I can't speak to forensic observations in 2020, so it may be that there are explicit topical indicators to look for today which were not known identifiers when I worked in hospitals, particularly with nitrogen becoming more widely known and used as an exterminator. (Animals for food were killed by electrocution when I was working, not with nitrogen. Certainly I would expect medical school students today to be dissecting specimens euthanized with nitrogen.)

Beyond nitrogen though, there are other infinite ways a suicide could be hidden as an accidental or natural death. There are brilliantly creative people looking to end their lives in ways which make a natural or accidental cause seem to be responsible.

 

[SleepyTime]

I would just like to point out that in the U.S. there is a complete fallacy that deaths are recorded or investigated properly. Reality is nothing like what we see in CSI type shows. There are about 2,500 coroner districts in the U.S. - and in about 1,500 of them (mostly rural communities) the coroner only needs to have a high school education with no medical training. Many of them are part-time positions and they hold other regular jobs like plumbers and construction workers or as the local undertaker. Even in the big cities, many coroners have failed their certifications and are not top quality like we see on CSI.

Most coroner offices lack money or time and it is estimated that 20-30% of all death certificates in the U.S. list an incorrect method of death. And all of this was pre-Covid times. Now with hospitals, coroners, and morgues overwhelmed. If you want to pass without it being recorded as suicide I suggest you go to a rural community. Chances are, unless you have family or friends that make a big deal of it, you will likely just fall through the cracks. At worst, they will record it as suicide, but there is a high chance that it will be reported as accidental.

 

[CTB-London]

You are looking at the wrong method, as any method involving nitrogen would leave a tank. The methods most likely to be obscured would be a drug overdose, gun accident if creativity is used, or an autoerotic accident. Single vehicle car crashes are the most likely to fail and likely to harm others of the options mentioned.

An autoerotic incident would be embarrassing to those left behind!
The most obvious way to make it look like an accident is an overdose of recreational drugs that somebody may plausibly take to get high. Mixing narcotic sedatives would be the most obvious way.

I have a friend who died this way. It was probably accidental but nobody is totally sure.