Helium exit bag

[Trashcan]

I have done a little bit of welding, but mostly I'm a woodworker. I've picked up knowledge of gasses from people I've worked with and from being an EMT.

We appreciate you sharing your knowledge. :)

 

[TiredHorse]

I'm glad I could be of help.

I must admit, Trashcan, I'm a bit concerned about your choice to use a mask over using a bag. I know the case study of the fellow who used a scuba mask, but pretty much every other account I've read says a bag is more reliable than a mask.

I trust you know what you're doing, and have tested your apparatus to make sure you don't get air intrusion --but I'm a worry-wart, and I'd hate to see you experience enough hypoxia to damage your brain and not enough to ctb. So I figured I'd say something.

 

[sini]

Why don't people talk about this anymore?

After reading your post I read about it and started to wonder it my self. Exit and many other euthanasia communities say that helium is the most used peacefull death system, there is no pain or panic and it's really fast (I watched that in animal euthanasia video and saw that it's true).

I have also read lot about CO. It's said that 400-800ppm (many say 200-400ppm is enough, 800ppm for sure to do it under 3h) will kill in about 3 hours and reading about cases where it happened. It seems people just slept through it or lived and became unconscience and died. Nothing to show about struggle. Those who almost died said they had no idea about CO. No bad feeling etc.
I know that when inhaling CO it makes you sleepy. I thought once I got little poisoned by CO but it turned out I had infection in lungs from the flu I had then.

I think that having low CO would be like my experience with allergic reaction. But since one gets more air I believe he would likely feel normal and maybe little euphoric and sleepy.
He-method on the other hand would just knock you out almost instantly and you are dead.

I read that old people used to, and still do, euthanasia with helium also because normal autopsy doesn't show it and because in many countries they don't make more detailed autopsy for old people since they assume they died from old age and sickness and because it wouldn't make any difference. When younger people die, they will most likely find out the cause even if they had that good friend to throw the kit away after.
They do it that way for their family members.
Of course in that case there is somebody holding their hand while they die, check they are dead and then they take the helium and exit back or tube and throw them in trash somewhere not near the house.
That is why there is so much info about the procedure in euthanasia communities and they can say that 100% died peacefully with that method. Of course they don't tell the names of people who were present or someone would tell cops about it and they would get jail or other sanction for their loving deed.

One option is that they die alone and loved ones feel more distress knowing they had euthanasia/suicide. The other that they have loving person by their side and loved ones feel better knowing they died in sleep. Third option is that they suffer until they die but since they wanted to go, they would go with or without their friend so it wouldn't have happened.

Anyway nothing good wouldn't have happened to anyone if things were done differently. Nobody would benefit if sick person who is dieing anyway will lay in bed just to wake up to pain and maybe eat and to toilet. I think anyone wishing that to someone must REALLY hate them a lot!

 

[TiredHorse]

He-method on the other hand would just knock you out almost instantly and you are dead.

Sadly, I can report from my own experience that it sometimes takes longer than you might hope --maybe a minute? And when you're stressed and afflicted with a strong human survival instinct, the time to unconsciousness can feel very, very long indeed. I've tried three times recently, and I had plenty of time to remove the bag from my head.

I will agree, however, that it is painless. Just a bit of tingling in my hands and face, and some greyness around the edge of my vision.

Hopefully soon I will work up the courage to try again.

 

[Johnnythefox]

100% he is still sold in normal markets in toy/balloons sections at least in northern Europe, Uk and Germany.

I bought a tank here in the UK recently before joining here, anyway to tell if it is pure?

 

[TiredHorse]

I bought a tank here in the UK recently before joining here, anyway to tell if it is pure?

Did you buy it from a party supply store, for balloons, or from a welding/industrial supplier?

If the latter, it is almost certainly 100% He. Industrial purposes demand 100% He; they can't tolerate air contamination.

If it was intended for filling balloons, there's no telling for certain without a spectrometer or other lab equipment. Theoretically you could measure out a specific volume of gas and test how much it lifts, but unless you're confident in your mensuration that's little better than a guess. If you know the business you bought it from (e.g. Balloon Time) you might have some luck asking people here, or perhaps PPH, about the reputed purity of their product. But really, this is why so many people have shifted to using N2 or Ar instead of He.

 

[Shewaitsforme]

D

I bought a tank here in the UK recently before joining here, anyway to tell if it is pure?

Should say on the website or tank, where did you buy it?

 

[Johnnythefox]

Did you buy it from a party supply store, for balloons, or from a welding/industrial supplier?
/QUOTE]
Thanks, it's from an online store (argos ) and for balloons...

 

[Johnnythefox]

D


Should say on the website or tank, where did you buy it?

Argos

 

[TiredHorse]

If Argos lables it "100% Helium," there's a good chance it is what it's labled. If it's labled "balloon gas", or has no specifics of composition, it's anyone's guess.

Perhaps someone here has experience with Argos?

 

[sini]

Sadly, I can report from my own experience that it sometimes takes longer than you might hope --maybe a minute? And when you're stressed and afflicted with a strong human survival instinct, the time to unconsciousness can feel very, very long indeed. I've tried three times recently, and I had plenty of time to remove the bag from my head.

I will agree, however, that it is painless. Just a bit of tingling in my hands and face, and some greyness around the edge of my vision.

Hopefully soon I will work up the courage to try again.

I think there are two painless euthanasia methods if one don't have fentanyl, nembutal or similar drugs.

Generators smoke that comes straight from both sides have 70000ppm or 7% CO. 10000ppm knocks one out in 1-2 breaths and one dies in 1-2 minutes. That should be fast and painless too. I tested it once and it rose to 14000ppm in seconds near where the smoke comes. The meter can't count more and can get broken from it. I work in area where we have those best equipments that there is.

So of course I got too much CO when testing it. Many die when they put generator off or plug it because the button is in the same side where comes smoke that has 70000ppm, 7% CO in it that kills almost instantly when inhaled.

I felt also tingling in my hands and sleepy and little bit like stoned but no bad feelings.

Then there shouldn't be time for the survival instinct. But downside is the black smoke and it's very noisy. Good side is your loved ones can think it was an accident. Nobody can say for sure if you don't also take overly amount of drugs and alcohol, you don't write messages of doing it (Goodbye notes, Facebook poats etc. with your name) or really depressive messages, have things in decent order and if you put factory settings to your laptop, tablet, phone etc. and dumb it far away and delete emails you don't want others to see.

CO works in small amounts (200-800ppm) too when one can't notice it at all before they go. So only now I understand how the coal system works that people talk about a lot. But I could never be in that kind of smoke more than few seconds so I think it should be real high (knock you out in few seconds and death instantly) or real low (you fall asleep and die without warning signals) to work out.

Sorry that was a little off from the subject. I just wonder what is best

Have you tested the breathing tube with face mask that is attached to your head? Have you seen plastic masks anywhere else than the one for apnea which might cost too much if you have to buy the whole thing?
I think that if it was attached well and tight to the head it wouldn't fly off as euthanasia adviser said it can do. Scuba diving masks etc. never give in any water even in high pressure so I think that plastic mask could work if it's attached so that when one is knocked out it won't come off.

How much flow you had to the bag? You can't really count it but was it something like slow, medium or a lot? Did you use duct tape or lion tape? Those are really hard to get off.

Did you for sure have 100% helium? At least in most European countries one can get it easily in normal stores and it's cheap too.

If you wouldn't be sure it's easy to ask from the manufacturer via email. I mean everyone wants 100% helium because otherwise the balloons fall down way too fast. 100% helium tank promises that big balloons stay up only for 4 hours. So 80% helium and 20% air is no good.

 

[Johnnythefox]

If Argos lables it "100% Helium," there's a good chance it is what it's labled. If it's labled "balloon gas", or has no specifics of composition, it's anyone's guess.

Perhaps someone here has experience with Argos?

This is the only information on it.

 

[sini]

I was also thinking that did you have the real Exit bag from euthanasia store? Normal plastic gives a lot of air through. The strongest I know from store are big "minicrip" bags that are made to keep the food good by keeping the air out. All that kind might work right. I guess you can put two also. And those plastic bags that you put on billows and blankets and you vacuum the air out so that there don't get any air and smells to them in storage and they fit in small space. I don't know what is the smallest size they sell those and how easily one can find one.

Helium is not toxic so it only works by making your brain to think you breath air so that you feel no pain or panic and fall asleep and die for not getting enough air.

My brain could be tricked with mask because it feels nice but the idea of bag might make panic itself. But maybe not since I haven't tried it.
Professional euthanasia advisers always say go with a bag but the argument I saw is that it can come off or not be airtight enough. There are plastic masks and duct tape etc. to fix that flaw.

 

[sini]

By the way, how many of you who actively join the discussions of the ways feel like we are doing some group research work together? I hope we get an A. It would suck for somebody if we would get a D.

 

[TiredHorse]

That lable doesn't tell you anything useful.

If I were you, I'd phone the company and ask --but I'd come at it sideways, and ask them, "I'm worried about kids doing stupid stuff with huffing off helium balloons. Is your helium 100% helium, or is it mixed with 20% air, as I've heard some companies do?"

If they reply, "Our helium is 100% helium, so you should be careful about stupid kids," you know you're in the money and you have the real McCoy.

If they reply, "Oh no, we mix it with 20% air because we're worried about people being harmed by it," you know you've got a dud, and it's only useful if you feel like throwing a "going away" party with balloons (which might be a bit tacky, or it might be hilarious, depending on your sense of humor).

 

[TiredHorse]

Have you tested the breathing tube with face mask that is attached to your head? Have you seen plastic masks anywhere else than the one for apnea which might cost too much if you have to buy the whole thing?
I think that if it was attached well and tight to the head it wouldn't fly off as euthanasia adviser said it can do. Scuba diving masks etc. never give in any water even in high pressure so I think that plastic mask could work if it's attached so that when one is knocked out it won't come off.

Masks are a bit dicey, not just due to how well they are (or are not) secured to your face, but because you might get air intrusion. If air intrudes on someone taking O2 for sleep apnea, it's no big deal. If air intrudes on one of us, trying to ctb with an inert gas, it becomes much more problematic.

Scuba/snorkel masks are intended to be worn in an environment where the water is pressing the mask against your face. The air being delivered through the regulator is on demand, at low pressure, so unlikely to dislodge the mask against the pressure of the water. Cinch the mask tight enough to your face and you can probably get away with using one to ctb. My big concern about using such masks with inert gas ctb is that it might be very difficult to flush the air out of the system with the inert gas, which would lead to a longer time before unconsciousness and a greater risk of triggering the hypercapnic alarm.

How much flow you had to the bag? You can't really count it but was it something like slow, medium or a lot? Did you use duct tape or lion tape? Those are really hard to get off.

Flow rate should be a reliable 15Lpm, as measured through a regulator. The hose should be firmly secured under the bag --I tie the end of my hose in with the hair elastic I use on my braid, at the nape of my neck, and that works very well. I've also found the bag leaks less if I run the hose up my back, rather than in under my chin.

Do not seal the bottom edge of the bag around your neck: you need for the flow of inert gas to carry away your exhaled CO2, or else --again-- you'll have trouble with your hypercapnic alarm. An elastic drawcord, not cinched tight, is the preferred method.

The recommended bag for use is a turkey roasting bag, sold in supermarkets. (They're with the ziplocks and sandwich bags in my market; I had to ask a clerk in order to find them.) Instructions for building an exit bag with an elastic drawcord (that allows CO2 to be flushed away) are easily available on the internet. And at 15Lpm flow rate, it doesn't have any trouble staying in place. Anyone who had the bag blown off their head either didn't bother with any drawcord, or else tried to use the flow of gas straight out of the tank, without a regulator/flowmeter.

 

[Shewaitsforme]

@Johnnythefox it states on the website helium ballon gas, so tbh its more than likely mixed with oxygen. Most reseach ive done if it states ballon gas its been mixed or it would say 100% pure.

Maybe better to go with Argon or Nitrogen, yes costs more but easier to get pure

 

[sini]

Thank you for the info. By the way you have very good writing style. It seems as you are professional in your education and at work. (I'm not native English speaker as you can read ;) )

Now I remember seeing a video in YouTube of an old lady who made exit bag. She used wide elastic ribbon that are used in trousers around the weist. She did them to her farm animals that she euthanised because she didn't want them to suffer. I didn't watch it though since I was too tired in that evening. I bet someone have made also a video on YouTube how to make it right way.

Where did you get the regulator and how much I costs? Can it be attached to every helium tanks? Since they might be different kind in Europe and in USA for example.

 

[sini]

@Johnnythefox it states on the website helium ballon gas, so tbh its more than likely mixed with oxygen. Most reseach ive done if it states ballon gas its been mixed or it would say 100% pure.

Maybe better to go with Argon or Nitrogen, yes costs more but easier to get pure

They sell named "Ballooner" helium tanks in many countries in same stores. There is section where people can ask about the item and anyone can read them. So it should be always correct information that they give because people buy products based on the information they give there. Someone asked there that is it 100% helium. He got written answer that it is 100% helium. Of course someone could also email to manufacturer and ask the same. In normal stores salesmen usually don't know about their products. In welding stores they do because it really matters there.

I read sometime ago in euthanasia site that only one manufacturer started to dilute helium to 80% helium 20% air and that they should say it in tank or they can't just sell it telling it's helium when it's ingredients are helium and air.

But it may have been changed. Does anyone have more info about it? I can check the name which is not for sure 100%.

 

[TiredHorse]

I bet someone have made also a video on YouTube how to make it right way.

I am almost certain that I found videos on YouTube. They are quite good at explaining how to build an exit bag.

Where did you get the regulator and how much I costs? Can it be attached to every helium tanks? Since they might be different kind in Europe and in USA for example.

Pressurized cylinders' valves are built to an international standard --in other words, I could bring a regulator from the US to Europe and it should fit on a tank I bought in Europe. This is important for situations like big ships needing to replace their on-board shop's gas cylinders in a foreign port. However, there are no international standards for cylinder sizes and shapes, and from trying to assist people on this forum there are a bewildering variety of them. So the valves are the same, but what size tank you will need to buy is a question you'll need to research specific to the country you're in. You'll need at least 40 minutes of gas flowing at 15Lpm, so the tank must contain a minimum of 600L of compressed gas.

In the US, a cheap CO2/Ar regulator (will also work adequately for N2) is available from Harbor Freight Tools, but I doubt that company ships internationally. Again, you'll need to look around for local resources. The critical componant, as far as I've seen, is making sure it has a flowmeter marked in liters per minute. Many regulators are only marked in cubic feet per hour, intended for low-flow welding operations, and as such they do not provide a high enough flow rate for use with an exit bag.

 

[sini]

Ballooner ingredients: helium.

Nothing else or it should be said and in product info it was said that it's 100% helium.

That's what they have said in euthanasia sites also:

"Do not buy the ones marked HELIUM/AIR because they might not work in self-deliverance from a terminal or hopeless illness. The marking is in a corner of the box of the Worthington Party Balloon kits, and again on the disposable tank.

Walmart stores often have considerable stocks. Carefully stored, their shelf-life is several years."

Of course it has to say if it's diluted. Otherwise every factory would dilute it to get more money.

They sell named "Ballooner" helium tanks in many countries in same stores. There is section where people can ask about the item and anyone can read them. So it should be always correct information that they give because people buy products based on the information they give there. Someone asked there that is it 100% helium. He got written answer that it is 100% helium. Of course someone could also email to manufacturer and ask the same. In normal stores salesmen usually don't know about their products. In welding stores they do because it really matters there.

I read sometime ago in euthanasia site that only one manufacturer started to dilute helium to 80% helium 20% air and that they should say it in tank or they can't just sell it telling it's helium when it's ingredients are helium and air.

But it may have been changed. Does anyone have more info about it? I can check the name which is not for sure 100%.

 

[letmeseethedeath]

guys i want to know if nitrogen can make vomits because i hate it

 

[sini]

I

I am almost certain that I found videos on YouTube. They are quite good at explaining how to build an exit bag.

Pressurized cylinders' valves are built to an international standard --in other words, I could bring a regulator from the US to Europe and it should fit on a tank I bought in Europe. This is important for situations like big ships needing to replace their on-board shop's gas cylinders in a foreign port. However, there are no international standards for cylinder sizes and shapes, and from trying to assist people on this forum there are a bewildering variety of them. So the valves are the same, but what size tank you will need to buy is a question you'll need to research specific to the country you're in. You'll need at least 40 minutes of gas flowing at 15Lpm, so the tank must contain a minimum of 600L of compressed gas.

In the US, a cheap CO2/Ar regulator (will also work adequately for N2) is available from Harbor Freight Tools, but I doubt that company ships internationally. Again, you'll need to look around for local resources. The critical componant, as far as I've seen, is making sure it has a flowmeter marked in liters per minute. Many regulators are only marked in cubic feet per hour, intended for low-flow welding operations, and as such they do not provide a high enough flow rate for use with an exit bag.

Thank you for your answer.

In Europe they don't say how much helium there is before it's compressed. They only tell how much there is after. Meaning how much any gas could fit in the tank.

But the only ones sold in Europe normal stores say that you get 30 balloons from it and euthanasia site said that it's enough.

I should read euthanasia sites info well first and see if I have any guestions since there they talk a lot about it and advice people around the world.

 

[TiredHorse]

But the only ones sold in Europe normal stores say that you get 30 balloons from it and euthanasia site said that it's enough.

I admit, after hearing how He is so often diluted, I never even considered it for my exit. I went straight to N2.

guys i want to know if nitrogen can make vomits because i hate it

No, no vomiting. At least I haven't experienced that, and I've tried to ctb with N2 three times in the last month. It's no different from breathing --no funny smell, even-- but eventually your hands and face go tingly and you black out. At least I'm assuming you black out: I was a coward and pulled the bag off after my vision went grey around the edges.

 

[letmeseethedeath]

I admit, after hearing how He is so often diluted, I never even considered it for my exit. I went straight to N2.

No, no vomiting. At least I haven't experienced that, and I've tried to ctb with N2 three times in the last month. It's no different from breathing --no funny smell, even-- but eventually your hands and face go tingly and you black out. At least I'm assuming you black out: I was a coward and pulled the bag off after my vision went grey around the edges.

thank you for that, and i feel you :( that sucks, i think like you, i'm a coward too i hate life but still here wasting my time

 

[Johnnythefox]

This is the only information on it.

They want me to review it! Should I say it's not fit for purpose?

 

[TiredHorse]

They want me to review it! Should I say it's not fit for purpose?

Thank you. I needed that levity.

Oh lordy, could someone get into trouble on Amazon! I only just now realized how much mayhem one could cause with reviews...

Please, @Johnnythefox, start an "Amazon reviews" thread over in OffTopic! I would, but my sense of humor feels broken tonight.

 

[Johnnythefox]

They want me to review it! Should I say it's not fit for purpose? View attachment 4649

This is only a mock-up and does not feature on any other site than this one.

 

[MsM3talGamer]

View attachment 4663

This is only a mock-up and does not feature on any other site than this one.

Your humorous posts always bring a smile to my face. :D

 

[Johnnythefox]

Your humorous posts always bring a smile to my face. :D

Thanks, I'm glad it has that effect.