Discussion Having children

[Bombasflower]

Whether I will CTB or not in the near or far future, I will vow to never have children.
I do not want them to suffer this planet and society.
The most kind thing you can do in life to your children is not to reproduce and let them exist. There will always be suffering no matter what.

 

[Rachel74]

I got bipolar in my 20s and vowed never to have children, because I believe my condition is genetic. I'm glad I didn't and I had lovely furry 4 legged kids instead

 

[Bombasflower]

I got bipolar in my 20s and vowed never to have children, because I believe my condition is genetic. I'm glad I didn't and I had lovely furry 4 legged kids instead ❤

I'm sorry to hear that. And I can understand.

How sweet
I love my furry friends as well, they're the only ones who give you unconditional love <3

 

[JohnUK]

I have never considered having children. Probably until 20 years old but when I went downhill, thought of children is a no go.

 

[CrushedHopes]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with the OP. Not everyone is perpetually suffering on this planet. Everyone faces adversity, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they'd want to off themselves. There are a lot of reasons as to why plenty of people are doing fine and they choose to live, and I don't believe "stop reproduction" is the answer.

In some cases, such as myself, I was someone that had it all and I would have had a very bright future if I rectified my behavioral problems at an earlier stage in time. Now, I truly have nothing left. My actions were my own undoing.

Not every person is as stupid as me. I'm sure there are plenty of similar aged people that have similar backgrounds such as mine, but they handled it way better. That's why they're doing fine, and I am not.

 

[Pony]

Im planning on adopting, I wont be able to have kids of my own anyway thanks to hrt

 

[Chalken]

This philosophy is called antinatalism and I'm 100% on board with it. On top of the world being unbelievably cruel, there's also a risk of your progeny inheriting your mental illness.

For people saying that not everybody is suffering and not everybody wants to kill themselves, that's true, but if you have children, there's still a possibility that one day your child will develop issues. If you don't have children, there's no possibility that they will end up suffering. Sure, you could say that they won't experience the good things, but it won't matter since they won't exist.

I think many people have children for rather selfish reasons. Adoption is a better choice if you really want children, in my opinion. Still, people want little versions of themselves running around and not some children from foreign parents. I think adoption would be a pretty selfless act.

 

[CrushedHopes]

Any kind of child has the potential to develop issues, adopted or birthed. But not every child experiences problems so grave that they'd want to off themselves. It takes someone that is experiencing a lot of mental/physical pain (or both) to want to go through with it. Or, take it from me - someone that has quite literally ruined his entire future.

If you're just having a couple of problems here and there that could be easily resolved, then you're gonna be okay. I'd encourage people to face their adversities head on unless they've already exhausted all of their options.

 

[BPD_LE]

Agree OP. I've not had kids because I've always been fucked up. Not my fault. It's very difficult to rectify behavioural problems early enough @CrushedHopes when the family dynamic is causing them. I started receiving help at 14, at my own request, and even that was too late. The damage had been done. I wouldn't risk any child of mine having to grow up like me. I would never forgive myself. It hurts like hell, but I'm childless to save an innocent life from potentially suffering the way I have.

I had lovely furry 4 legged kids instead

Horary for children with paws! ❤

 

[Chalken]

Any kind of child has the potential to develop issues, adopted or birthed. But not every child experiences problems so grave that they'd want to off themselves. It takes someone that is experiencing a lot of mental/physical pain (or both) to want to go through with it. Or, take it from me - someone that has quite literally ruined his entire future.

If you're just having a couple of problems here and there that could be easily resolved, that you're gonna be okay. I'd encourage people to face their adversities head on unless they've already exhausted all of their options.

I'm sorry that you think you've ruined your future. I can kind of relate. I'm quite young as well, but it feels like I have no future. It might just be my depression talking, but I just don't see myself alive in the next couple of years or even months. As for having children, I still don't think it's worth creating new life. You're right that even adopted children can develop issues, but that child already exists. They might not develop issues severe enough to cause suicidality, but the issues are still there regardless. Once you're here, you can't unmake your existence and you're forced to go through life. And I'm sorry if I came off as a bit rude :)

 

[WhiteDespair]

I'm about a decade behind in many aspects of life and I've screwed up others. I presume I have a 5-15 year window to have kids and, even then, I've put little to no effort into that area. For that I'd need to engage in baby-making activities. For that I'd need a girlfriend/woman. For that I'd have to leave the house. For that I'd have to want to leave the house. For that I'd have to have the desire to do anything. For that, I have no idea.

 

[DoNotLet2]

First I would have to find a man to have children with which is gonna be hard so I probably won't have kids... But why do you guys vowed? I don't understand why you needed to.

 

[JSauter]

If you have good genes, I don't see the problem. I, on the other hand...

 

[CrushedHopes]

I'm sorry that you think you've ruined your future. I can kind of relate. I'm quite young as well, but it feels like I have no future. It might just be my depression talking, but I just don't see myself alive in the next couple of years or even months. As for having children, I still don't think it's worth creating new life. You're right that even adopted children can develop issues, but that child already exists. They might not develop issues severe enough to cause suicidality, but the issues are still there regardless. Once you're here, you can't unmake your existence and you're forced to go through life. And I'm sorry if I came off as a bit rude :)

No, it's fine. It's your opinion. As for me, I *definitely* ruined my future for sure. I know so. I can't do the things I like anymore, because of my own stupidity. It's pointless. I want out of this hellhole, so I will gracefully accept death. I don't know what will happen to me, afterwards. My soul, that is. I won't know how my corpse is going to be handled, but I don't think it would matter.

The people that I've offended and hurt would want me dead for sure. If I choose to live, it will be very difficult, given how my full name and face are doxed online. I've been thoroughly humiliated because of my grave mistakes.

So, here's how I see it. It's punishment, either way.

A) Choosing to CTB is a self-induced punishment of my atrocities. I may not have committed any crimes (my criminal record is completely clean), but I've hurt a lot of people.

B) Choosing to live not being able to what you love for the rest of your life is a lifetime sentence of utter torture. My interests had kept me going for the past 7 years. Now that I can't do them anymore, there's no reason to live. I would not go down this route.

 

[Lethe]

In addition to what everyone else has said, the earth is overpopulated already, and set to exceed it's carrying capacity. What happens when a species exceeds it's carrying capacity? Mass die-offs due to lack of resources.

 

[CrushedHopes]

In addition to what everyone else has said, the earth is overpopulated already, and set to exceed it's carrying capacity. What happens when a species exceeds it's carrying capacity? Mass die-offs due to lack of resources.

Mainly in Africa, perhaps. Pretty sure the middle class and upper class are going to be fine. Not sure why I'd care though, seeing as I'm gonna CTB within this month.

 

[Reyki6667]

I got bipolar in my 20s and vowed never to have children, because I believe my condition is genetic. I'm glad I didn't and I had lovely furry 4 legged kids instead

Same for my dystimia /Major depressive disorder which can't be treated.

 

[not4us]

why everybody looks only one step ahead?

Even if you think your children will get "perfect genes" and good life (imo you can't know that), you can't guarantee that children of your children then their children (list goes on) won't be horribly sick.

By creating new human you get almost 100 % chance of creating terrible suffering eventually.

Also remember that people not only suffer themselves they cause suffering of others, there are lots of rapist, killers, bullies, maniacs... even if none of those , most of them will eat other animals etc etc etc.

 

[Bombasflower]

The concept of antinatalism is basically the most peaceful there can be, creating no more suffering for a life that does not yet exist.

You listed how you feel, and I am very sorry to hear that. I feel similar to you right now even though my situation differs.

It's exactly why, we on this forum can relate to each other. The amount of pain we feel, to the extent of wanting to exit this life, is so much... that we cannot bear it anymore.

Of course there are people who are never going to feel or experience this amount of negativity and torture in their lives, but they will still experience suffering regardles. Being bullied, seeing loved ones pass away, grief, jealousy, being poor and fighting to live... That's exactly why antinatalism is so great, it's a no suffering philosphy. Why would you want to create a life knowing, even if there might be a slight chance, that he/she would end up suffering as much as us, or even only partly.

No, it's fine. It's your opinion. As for me, I *definitely* ruined my future for sure. I know so. I can't do the things I like anymore, because of my own stupidity. It's pointless. I want out of this hellhole, so I will gracefully accept death. I don't know what will happen to me, afterwards. My soul, that is. I won't know how my corpse is going to be handled, but I don't think it would matter.

The people that I've offended and hurt would want me dead for sure. If I choose to live, it will be very difficult, given how my full name and face are doxed online. I've been thoroughly humiliated because of my grave mistakes.

So, here's how I see it. It's punishment, either way.

A) Choosing to CTB is a self-induced punishment of my atrocities. I may not have committed any crimes (my criminal record is completely clean), but I've hurt a lot of people.

B) Choosing to live not being able to what you love for the rest of your life is a lifetime sentence of utter torture. My interests had kept me going for the past 7 years. Now that I can't do them anymore, there's no reason to live. I would not go down this route.

 

[CrushedHopes]

why everybody looks only one step ahead?

Even if you think your children will get "perfect genes" and good life (imo you can't know that), you can't guarantee that children of your children then their children (list goes on) won't be horribly sick.

By creating new human you get almost 100 % chance of creating terrible suffering eventually.

Thankfully, this is just a minority view, or else humanity would have stopped reproduction a long time ago. The ideology that humans are brought into this world just to suffer doesn't sit well with me. I'm against antinatalism for one very simple reason - I was born into a relatively resourceful family, and I definitely have the potential of reaching great heights if I wasn't such a dumbass twat. I wasn't conceived to suffer - I had a purpose, and a goal. Now I have neither.

If you knew how vile and toxic I could get, you'd want me gone too. I've come to realize my own toxicity way, way, way too late. So when I CTB, I'd be doing the entire world a favor.

 

[Bombasflower]

In addition to what everyone else has said, the earth is overpopulated already, and set to exceed it's carrying capacity. What happens when a species exceeds it's carrying capacity? Mass die-offs due to lack of resources.

This also, and meanwhile there are so many children waited to be adopted. But most couples want to pass.of their genes sadly.

 

[OnlyMercy]

The need to reproduce is unfortunately intrinsically embedded into our DNA. The fact that sex is mostly pleasurable and desirable is proof of this fact.

Antinatalism is the only true philosophy (religion, if you will) which expresses genuine empathy towards our unborn children.

It is far more preferable to avoid the guaranteed creation of pain than it is to create the ability to experience pleasure for selfish reasons. Every rational human being would agree that 1 unit of pain holds far greater impact than 1 unit of pleasure.

It appears that voluntary human extinction through the cessation of reproduction is the only legitimate way to end human suffering in the long run.

 

[Rachel74]

I wouldn't have wanted to bring children into my illness and watch me suffer especially in my bad days.

 

[WilliamKline]

Such an interesting question that's so hard to rationally answer. Honestly I have cursed my parents many times when feeling utterly depressed and anxious for having kids in the first place. Didn't they know they were going to pass on these traits?

In their defence, they have actually visited their GP with this exact question; what is the risk of genetic predisposition for depression if we are to have kids? The authority figure in the white coat (as I imagine he was wearing at the time) said 'no, don't worry, it's all in the upbringing'

And although I do share the idea of a nature / nurture combination for the perfect storm, I don't buy that it's a 50/50 equasion. Since your nature (genes) influence your behavior, your nurture will change, probably for the worst. Plus, the people raising you haven't really properly been nurtured either.

Still I'm torn on the question myself, when I feel fine (which ocasionally still happens), I'm actually quite positive about having kids, even though I have learned the hard way that it's probably best not to. Plus, this depressive gene or genetic combination seems to be very dominant in my family, not only do all my aunts and uncles (from my dads side) have low mood issues, almost all of their children (my cousins) do too.

Now, I'm just waiting it out, becoming too old to reasonably still start a family, while everyone around me is either actively reproducing or has reproduced multiple times over

Oh PS: and then they bitch and whine about 'you've got such a great life, you can still go on vacation anywhere' om some shit like that.

 

[truthseeker]

Having a child is the best thing I ever did. I feel that I was and remain a loving parent. One of the few things I've ever felt good about myself for. They are engaged in life and find great joy in it. I take solace in that.

 

[Bombasflower]

Having a child is the best thing I ever did. Unlike me, they are engaged in life and find great joy in it. I take solace in that.

That's great, but things could've unfortunately also been different.

 

[truthseeker]

That's great, but things could've unfortunately also been different.

But they weren't.

 

[lymbo]

Having a child is the best thing I ever did. I feel that I was and remain a loving parent. One of the few things I've ever felt good about myself for. They are engaged in life and find great joy in it. I take solace in that.

just another evydence that people who havee kyds are selfysh

 

[truthseeker]

just another evydence that people who havee kyds are selfysh

Wow. Criticizing me for feeling good about being a parent and pleased with the outcome. Thanks.

 

[lymbo]

Wow. Criticizing me for feeling good about being a parent and pleased with the outcome. Thanks.

please dont take yt personal, dont mean to offend you