Discussion Having children is immoral.

[Baskol1]

I think having children is immoral, especially when you have depression, and other severe problems. Then it is especially immoral, because there is the risk to pass the genes on. What do you think? I think if you want to desperately have children, which is still immoral, because it continues the cycle of suffering, you should be somewhat financially stable, and somewhat healthy. Otherwise your childrens will suffer greatly. But the best thing would be having no children.

 

[Soulless_Angel]

OK so what if your in a good place, both in strong jobs, stable, home everything, you add children to that story as it fits. BAM 9 yrs later everything you know is ripped out from under your feet with no warning. What happens then? Is it wrong the children were born on a case of what ifs and maybes. Or was it right in the time and now its just a case of their beginning means nothing and their future is screwed?

I have noticed this forum becoming very anti children, now whilst I respect everyone's opinions, I do feel no one should judge when you have not walked in someone else's shoes. You chose to not have them and I respect that. 9 yrs ago I never expected to be were I am today, despite my shit up bringing, I thought as everyone told me, that I could make a different life for these children, I believed I could turn things around.
Yes maybe the wrong attitude, but at the time it was the natural next step.
I feel for my children I really do. Should I have had them, esp knowing what I know now, No, I shouldn't have done, but whats done is done, and making the most of a uncontrollable situation is all I can do.

 

[Soul]

@Soulless_Angel I'm sorry you're struggling. Please go on doing your best for your children and don't feel harshly judged just because this crowd tends to be anti-natal. Most of us can't express those views anywhere in real life so we express them here. It doesn't mean we're judging *you*. And even if any of us were, what difference does it make what a bunch of judgemental you-know-whats thinks.

If you want to talk about it, we can listen.

 

[Baskol1]

I'm sorry you're struggling. Please go on doing your best for your children and don't feel harshly judged just because this crowd tends to be anti-natal. Most of us can't express those views anywhere in real life so we express them here. It doesn't mean we're judging *you*.

If you want to talk about it, we can listen.

exactly

 

[Soulless_Angel]

@Soulless_Angel I'm sorry you're struggling. Please go on doing your best for your children and don't feel harshly judged just because this crowd tends to be anti-natal. Most of us can't express those views anywhere in real life so we express them here. It doesn't mean we're judging *you*. And even if any of us were, what difference does it make what a bunch of judgemental you-know-whats thinks.

If you want to talk about it, we can listen.

I think its a case of those of us that have landed as parents yet are in this place are looked upon in a negative light, or at least this is how it feels. I am ready to CTB and I don't care if its selfish or if I should look to the future with the children, I am not allowed alone with the children, and the family is holding on by a thin thread. The next wrong move on my part that I survive, my family is over, its that serious.

 

[k75]

You know, I love this forum, but sometimes it really does make me feel like a trash human. I had a kid, so I guess I'm the scum of the earth? That really sucks. I already want to ctb... Don't need more reasons.

Sometimes things happen, and people don't have a choice. Life isn't so cut and dry, you can't always neatly plan things out. And not all parents are selfish, uncaring monsters with your worst interests at heart.

All I'm saying is maybe a little tolerance would be nice. You never know what someone else is going through.

 

[sleepless]

I don't think there's an absolutely answer to this question. It may seem immoral at a point in time, if you decide to have them when say you are in bad financial shape. But who knows, your child might turn out just fine, or even become an asset to the community. Even if you are doing well, you cannot predict what will happen in the future, which could drastically affect your child's future, like divorce, bankruptcy.

Even gene inheritance will sometimes take a vacation. There are chances parts of your genes, may not be passed down to your child, mental illness may not be inherited. And for some parents, their children keeps them going, they are a great source of joy.

But I can see where you are coming from, and your fears are not unfounded from your point of view. I have been to the dark side of my mind, not only do I fear passing on and having my children go through this, I have thoughts on whether my condition will make me a good enough parent to see them through their adolescence.

 

[Baskol1]

You know, I love this forum, but sometimes it really does make me feel like a trash human. I had a kid, so I guess I'm the scum of the earth? That really sucks. I already want to ctb... Don't need more reasons.

Sometimes things happen, and people don't have a choice. Life isn't so cut and dry, you can't always neatly plan things out. And not all parents are selfish, uncaring monsters with your worst interests at heart.

All I'm saying is maybe a little tolerance would be nice. You never know what someone else is going through.

No, im just saying it would be better to not have kids. And it is not the most ethical choice if youre suicidal.

 

[k75]

I just feel kind of really ashamed for it, like if everybody finds out I'm a parent (and depressed at that!) they're going to start hating me or something. So it's like I'm that thing everybody hates, so maybe I'm not welcome here. And yeah strangers on the internet don't really matter and blah blah blah, but you know, I think everybody here is pretty cool.

 

[Soulless_Angel]

I just feel kind of really ashamed for it, like if everybody finds out I'm a parent they're going to start hating me or something. So it's like I'm that thing everybody hates, so maybe I'm not welcome here. And yeah strangers on the internet don't really matter and blah blah blah, but you know, I think everybody here is pretty cool.

When I posted earlier I wasn't drunk, in that short space of time ive had a few and now feeling woozy, my second opinion on this matter is:

I have children and don't hide it from this forum, each of us is walking our own path on our own journey. Threads like this hits us harder as we can personally relate to what is being said.
I am sure there are other topics on here spoken about we can talk and debate in whilst someone else is sat there butt hurt because they can relate to it.
Its the way of forums

 

[Baskol1]

I just feel kind of really ashamed for it, like if everybody finds out I'm a parent (and depressed at that!) they're going to start hating me or something. So it's like I'm that thing everybody hates, so maybe I'm not welcome here. And yeah strangers on the internet don't really matter and blah blah blah, but you know, I think everybody here is pretty cool.

No, why would i hate you? This is a part of depression, you think everyone hates you. I had that too as a teen. Now as an adult not anymore.

 

[k75]

No, why would i hate you? This is a part of depression, you think everyone hates you. I had that too as a teen. Now as an adult not anymore.

Because I'm a suicidal parent! LOL

I'm sorry I took it a little personally. I know it wasn't directed at me or anything. It's just something I've been noticing for awhile and was bothering me.

 

[Baskol1]

Because I'm a suicidal parent! LOL

I'm sorry I took it a little personally. I know it wasn't directed at me or anything. It's just something I've been noticing for awhile and was bothering me.

Nearly nobody actually hates you, most people are indifferent to you.

 

[k75]

You were correct about it being the depression brain talking. I know it's irrational, but even so, it makes me super cringe inside. I am the thing people say they hate. They hate parents - I am a parent - Therefore, they hate me.

Anyway, to get back on topic, I don't think everyone in a bad situation should not have kids, but I do agree that there are a ton of people doing it irresponsibly. There are definitely people who know they are not well, consciously trying to use children as a bandaid for their crappy existence. I don't agree with that. But there are others who just end up in a certain situation, and it's different. So like everything else, it's a case-by-case basis.

 

[Soul]

I just feel kind of really ashamed for it, like if everybody finds out I'm a parent (and depressed at that!) they're going to start hating me or something. So it's like I'm that thing everybody hates, so maybe I'm not welcome here. And yeah strangers on the internet don't really matter and blah blah blah, but you know, I think everybody here is pretty cool.

If people here are judgemental toward you, they are not especially cool.

I had myself sterilised at an early age because I was orphaned before I was two months old so when people post threads about how we feel about our parents I become the same cold alien thing as always, the one that never had that experience and can't say anything. I wrote about it in detail once for a young mother here who was pondering suicide and asked for our input. It felt like I was ripping my own skin off and it feels like that now too. I tried very hard not to seem judgemental.

And I apologise. I know nothing about your situations, @k75 and @Soulless_Angel, and I don't judge you. You haven't asked for my input so I'll go back and erase all the mimi stuff.

I'm sorry if anyone has made you feel judged here. Yes a lot of us are antinatalist but that doesn't mean we judge *you*.

 

[k75]

If people here are judgemental toward you, they are not especially cool.

I had myself sterilised at an early age because I was orphaned before I was two months old so when people post threads about how we feel about our parents I become the same cold alien thing as always, the one that never had that experience and can't say anything. I wrote about it in detail once for a young mother here who was pondering suicide and asked for our input. It felt like I was ripping my own skin off and it feels like that now too. I tried very hard not to seem judgemental.

And I apologise. I know nothing about your situations, @k75 and @Soulless_Angel, and I don't judge you. You haven't asked for my input so I'll go back and erase all the mimi stuff.

I'm sorry if anyone has made you feel judged here. Yes a lot of us are antinatalist but that doesn't mean we judge *you*.

It's all good. I think I'm just having an especially bad day. I'm sorry if I made you guys feel bad about anything. We're all in the same boat here.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I can't even imagine how that must have been like, growing up.

 

[Ko9]

It is not moral to make any life that suffers. Even if they are happy 99% of the time, that 1% doesn't make it ethical.

 

[Empty Smile]

I have a kid, she suffers from anxiety, depression, and other shit, same as me. Do I feel shitty for her being in this world? NOPE...

She came as a surprise, but I've never regretted her. She knows of my issues and my suicidal attempts, and she's fully aware that eventually it's going to happen. She has told me multiple times that even tho she doesn't want me to do it, she can't stop me. She's pretty much ok with my decision.

I do not regret bringing a kid in this world, and I honestly think that this thread is a crock of shit.

 

[cryptic_cynic]

I hate both parents and children, so less of both of those things existing would be ideal.

If you were dumb enough to succumb to such a base biological desire to procreate, good for you, you brought innocent people into an increasingly horrible and hopeless world that is probably on the brink of another world war and/or catastrophic economic collapse. Good work.

Instead of not existing, those kids will likely end up suffering and dying in thermonuclear warfare or civil unrest.
Fuck you and your shitty choice, you don't deserve my compassion.

 

[Soulless_Angel]

I hate both parents and children, so less of both of those things existing would be ideal.

If you were dumb enough to succumb to such a base biological desire to procreate, good for you, you brought innocent people into an increasingly horrible and hopeless world that is probably on the brink of another world war and/or catastrophic economic collapse. Good work.

Instead of not existing, those kids will likely end up suffering and dying in thermonuclear warfare or civil unrest.
Fuck you and your shitty choice, you don't deserve my compassion.

and fuck you right back at you....
@Baskol1 ... the angry face?!! Is there a point to it, go on I'm in the mood for a debate/argument.... hit me with it!!!

 

[Empty Smile]

I hate both parents and children, so less of both of those things existing would be ideal.

If you were dumb enough to succumb to such a base biological desire to procreate, good for you, you brought innocent people into an increasingly horrible and hopeless world that is probably on the brink of another world war and/or catastrophic economic collapse. Good work.

Instead of not existing, those kids will likely end up suffering and dying in thermonuclear warfare or civil unrest.
Fuck you and your shitty choice, you don't deserve my compassion.

Fuck you. I don't want your compassion. Whether I chose to bring a kid into this world or not is my decision to make, not yours, or anyone else on this site.

If they die from WW3, or some kind of incurable disease, it's still not your fucking problem.

As @Soulless_Angel said, and I agree with the comment, I'm in the mood for a debate/argument, so bring it.

After my fucking week, I'm challenging anyone who wants to step on my toes, and I don't give a flying fuck what the subject is about.

 

[deflagrat]

and fuck you right back at you....
@Baskol1 ... the angry face?!! Is there a point to it, go on I'm in the mood for a debate/argument.... hit me with it!!!

If you are a parent, you should force yourself to live to support your son / daughter, it's the least you can do. If you don't want to do that, you are not exactly a good parent, as being selfish like that is one of the main reasons why people suffer. You can kill yourself, but if you loved your children you would never do that.

People will keep having kids for stupid reasons in scenarios where they can't take care of them or provide them with a good life, and that's awful. They never should have let someone like that have kids, if that was the case, the world would have half the suffering it has today. Once it's done it's too late, so you have have to either take responsibility or become a horrible person.

 

[Empty Smile]

If you are a parent, you should force yourself to live to support your son / daughter, it's the least you can do. If you don't want to do that, you are not exactly a good parent, as being selfish like that is one of the main reasons why people suffer. You can kill yourself, but if you loved your children you would never do that.

People will keep having kids for stupid reasons in scenarios where they can't take care of them or provide them with a good life, and that's awful. They never should have let someone like that have kids, if that was the case, the world would have half the suffering it has today. Once it's done it's too late, so you have have to either take responsibility or become a horrible person.

So by your standards, I have to live just to make you, or someone else happy? What about my happiness? Oh wait, I forgot... My happiness don't mean shit to anyone. As long as they are happy, fuck me...

Take responsibility or be a horrible parent?
Guess I'll be a horrible parent... Again, you are forcing me to live to keep everyone else happy, and again, what about my happiness that I don't have?

You should really think before leaving asinine comments.

 

[Soulless_Angel]

If you are a parent, you should force yourself to live to support your son / daughter, it's the least you can do. If you don't want to do that, you are not exactly a good parent, as being selfish like that is one of the main reasons why people suffer. You can kill yourself, but if you loved your children you would never do that.

Hands up I am a selfish bitch, who can never put others first so yea I'm a nasty piece of work who doesn't deserve my children!

So by your standards, I have to live just to make you, or someone else happy? What about my happiness? Oh wait, I forgot... My happiness don't mean shit to anyone. As long as they are happy, fuck me...

Take responsibility or be a horrible parent?
Guess I'll be a horrible parent... Again, you are forcing me to live to keep everyone else happy, and again, what about my happiness that I don't have?

You should really think before leaving asinine comments.

With you on this!!! Like I have said previously I am close to losing my children to the state! I am doing all I can to hold my mental health together to put their needs frst to ensure they don't land in the system!! So these people can say what they like, I am putting my own mind and health at stake here!! IF I manage and when I manage to CTB those children will no longer be at risk... SImple as!

 

[deflagrat]

So by your standards, I have to live just to make you, or someone else happy? What about my happiness? Oh wait, I forgot... My happiness don't mean shit to anyone. As long as they are happy, fuck me...

Take responsibility or be a horrible parent?
Guess I'll be a horrible parent... Again, you are forcing me to live to keep everyone else happy, and again, what about my happiness that I don't have?

You should really think before leaving asinine comments.

You should have thought about that BEFORE having kids. It's a very serious decision that shouldn't be made lightly. You have the choice to fix your problems and do what a loving parent would do or die as if you never cared. Nobody said it was easy, but it is what it is.

 

[Soulless_Angel]

You should have thought about that BEFORE having kids. It's a very serious decision that shouldn't be made lightly. You have the choice to fix your problems and do what a loving parent would do or die as if you never cared. Nobody said it was easy, but it is what it is.

What if BEFORE having those children, and DURING having those children there was NO issues, what if it took 9 yrs before said issues became known...... !!!!! Do people stop having children in case of what ifs? What IF No issues happen yet you chose not to have children despite wanting them, and then regret is given for life, what then hey?

Why live life on what if's ?

 

[Futility]

For me it depends on the situation.
When I was a child I looked at myself and decided "I'm never having kids" and I've been solid about that ever since.

It would not be fair to the child to be born into a world where their mother would be broken and not enough resources to secure the best possible future for them, I wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing I doomed them from the start.

 

[Dead beat dad]

I think having children is immoral, especially when you have depression, and other severe problems. Then it is especially immoral, because there is the risk to pass the genes on. What do you think? I think if you want to desperately have children, which is still immoral, because it continues the cycle of suffering, you should be somewhat financially stable, and somewhat healthy. Otherwise your childrens will suffer greatly. But the best thing would be having no children.

The issue of kids here is emotive that's for sure.
I agree that even if you remove depression, mental health and suicide from this arguement, there are some very unfit parents walking among us out there.
However you could also argue that depression etc is a treatable illness, would you tell a person with IBS or diabetes that they are wrong to have children because they have a medical condition?
I would say that those that I've talked to on this forum who have kids are much more concientious of kids and the potential impact they're going to have, than some of those Jeremy Kyle appearing mutha fuckers.
And as for money and having the financial resources to have a child; what about the people in the 3rd world? Money is not the only thing that makes a stable and happy childhood, in fact how many childhoods can people on here tell stories of misery about because one or both parents are always working?

That said, unless we are psychopath we all have our conscious and must take responsibility for our decision and actions, however having a child (in the same way as any other life changing event) will impact your mental health.

And as you get older you parents are always your parents, when my grandpoppa killed himself, my mom was probably in her 50's and it utterly fucked her up (along with a lot of other people, myself included), but does that make what he did wrong (anyway I am deviating quite severely now so I'll stop).

We're all suffering here, I wish everyone peace and understanding.
DBD

 

[ScorpiusDragon]

I think having children is immoral, especially when you have depression, and other severe problems. Then it is especially immoral, because there is the risk to pass the genes on. What do you think? I think if you want to desperately have children, which is still immoral, because it continues the cycle of suffering, you should be somewhat financially stable, and somewhat healthy. Otherwise your childrens will suffer greatly. But the best thing would be having no children.

I strongly agree with this. This is partly why I'm thinking about ctb'ing. I'm in a 3-year relationship with my bf, and I think he is really into the idea of building a family. I don't think it would be right to continue bringing human beings into such a selfish world filled with meaningless suffering, so I feel I should ctb before I can have kids. If I stayed alive, I will probably passively follow the path that society expects (marriage, having kids, building a career).

 

[Empty Smile]

You should have thought about that BEFORE having kids. It's a very serious decision that shouldn't be made lightly. You have the choice to fix your problems and do what a loving parent would do or die as if you never cared. Nobody said it was easy, but it is what it is.

So again, you're telling me that I shouldn't have had a kid. And again, it's not your decision to make.

And don't throw the fucking guilt trip on me by saying "Die as if you never cared." Fuck you.