Discussion Has anyone experienced major trauma which they believe has driven them to want to CTB - but the rest of society doesn't see it as a major trauma?

[dopaminedeath]

As an aside, I have a good amount of knowledge about spiritual communities so might be able to help there. It's a topic in itself, but is also a potential breeding ground for Dark Triads. They're a lot of fun to deal with.

Not OP but wondering if you'd mind sharing any resource to learn more? How to balance the two, dark triad traits and spirituality/communities

 

[Pluto]

Not OP but wondering if you'd mind sharing any resource to learn more? How to balance the two, dark triad traits and spirituality/communities

That's a great question. The short answer is that the purpose of spirituality is to overcome the human ego, yet sometimes people with the most dangerous egos are attracted to the guru role.

Even Jim Jones fits that bill as an extreme example. Then there are many communities like that of Osho, where the teachings are mostly clean, yet bad things happen behind closed doors.

The solution is to be clear on the purpose of these communities and to know the red flags.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Hell yes

 

[dopaminedeath]

That's a great question. The short answer is that the purpose of spirituality is to overcome the human ego, yet sometimes people with the most dangerous egos are attracted to the guru role.

Even Jim Jones fits that bill as an extreme example. Then there are many communities like that of Osho, where the teachings are mostly clean, yet bad things happen behind closed doors.

The solution is to be clear on the purpose of these communities and to know the red flags.

I see. I remember reading of yoga gurus who were abusive sexual deviants. Especially of the late 20th century who were one of the first to bring yoga out West. A few and not all, similar to other such communities I suppose. I also like some of the stuff in this article.
i explore this cause i see myself as narcissist primarily

 

[passivethought121]

Yep. Had it not happened I wouldn't have craved to die so early and lose years to said craving.

 

[Pluto]

I see. I remember reading of yoga gurus who were abusive sexual deviants. Especially of the late 20th century who were one of the first to bring yoga out West. A few and not all, similar to other such communities I suppose. I also like some of the stuff in this article.
i explore this cause i see myself as narcissist primarily

Yes, it's unfortunately happened quite a lot in all sorts of spiritual and religious communities. In some ways, it's a tragedy of circumstance. I feel that it happens for many reasons:

* The nature of the guru-seeker dynamic is an extreme power imbalance.
* Bhakti Yoga, the path of worship, is a legitimate approach, but people need to be careful of who they are venerating.
* A true pursuit of the transcendental means losing touch with common human concepts like ethics and behavioural boundaries.
* Many seekers are in a very vulnerable state.
* Dark Triad people tend to be charismatic and seductive at the best of times.
* And finally, awakening/enlightenment usually unfolds in stages that take a long time to fully mature; a well-meaning teacher could have had genuine awakenings yet still carry dangerous remnants of ego which they are unaware of.

I didn't read your original question properly. To my knowledge, the main organisation that specialises in this subject matter is the Association for Spiritual Integrity. I think it is one of Rick Archer's side projects. His main contribution to spirituality is the YouTube channel Buddha at the Gas Pump, which interviews teachers. There's also an associated Facebook group where this topic has come up many times.

Personally, I'm more interested in enlightenment than policing the personal lives of teachers, and in fact, a couple of teachers I actively follow - the late Papaji and the still-active Mooji - have had their share of scandals. But it is important for beginners to have a crash course. I bought the book of a modern Buddhism-based teacher, Angelo Dilullo, and the first chapter is entirely dedicated to warning of all the dangers of dubious gurus.

 

[dopaminedeath]

@Pluto It seems very complex dealing with this issue, at the same time, there are recognisable patterns and red flags. The idea of having a beginner crash course sounds funny to me but can be so valuable. I suppose it can help empower people maybe. Its possible perpetrators have not acknowledged their own dangers, let alone the people around them noticing. Its good to see movement for integrity, hopefully it can bring about checks and balances structurally ever so slowly. Thank you for your insights and sharing about Rick Archer.