Method Guns/firearms megathread

[LastRide]

Anyone has more thoughts on using two weapons simultaneously? I have not got a ctb date set yet but it looks it'll be this summer...so I'd to get some input to get it absolutely "right" - i.e. DONE ! Thanks in advance for your kind understanding.

 

[Amossoma543]

I have access to a 32 pistol...belonged to my grandfather, passed down to me. It's an older "police" revolver...good working condition...and I was planning on holding it straight to my sternum, lower sternum...or just to the left between ribs. I've read enough on here that this isn't the *best* idea...but I don't think I can bring myself to shoot myself in the head...and I also realize that my death, if it happens, wouldn't be anywhere near instant, and I would likely bleed out if I were to die.

I've read enough stories online about people who have been killed by gunshot wounds to the chest from 22 and 32 caliber guns, so I know it's possible/likely to die this way. I've already placed an order for SN...so that's my primary method right now. What are people's general thoughts on the 32 pistol, though?

 

[Roger]

I have access to a 32 pistol...belonged to my grandfather, passed down to me. It's an older "police" revolver...good working condition...and I was planning on holding it straight to my sternum, lower sternum...or just to the left between ribs. I've read enough on here that this isn't the *best* idea...but I don't think I can bring myself to shoot myself in the head...and I also realize that my death, if it happens, wouldn't be anywhere near instant, and I would likely bleed out if I were to die.

I've read enough stories online about people who have been killed by gunshot wounds to the chest from 22 and 32 caliber guns, so I know it's possible/likely to die this way. I've already placed an order for SN...so that's my primary method right now. What are people's general thoughts on the 32 pistol, though?

You've identified the limitations of calibre and target area for yourself.

 

[LastRide]

I have access to a 32 pistol...belonged to my grandfather, passed down to me. It's an older "police" revolver...good working condition...and I was planning on holding it straight to my sternum, lower sternum...or just to the left between ribs. I've read enough on here that this isn't the *best* idea...but I don't think I can bring myself to shoot myself in the head...and I also realize that my death, if it happens, wouldn't be anywhere near instant, and I would likely bleed out if I were to die.

I've read enough stories online about people who have been killed by gunshot wounds to the chest from 22 and 32 caliber guns, so I know it's possible/likely to die this way. I've already placed an order for SN...so that's my primary method right now. What are people's general thoughts on the 32 pistol, though?

To be quite honest, I would not risk using a 32 calibre, especially when shooting to the chest....if you miss the heart you might not die fast enough, be found and rescued...I think for a shot to the head, if well-aimed at the brainstem, the 32 could be sufficient. But I think small calibre pistol shots to the chest have the lowest success rate in all of CTB by firearms statistics. And a chest wound hurts like crazy...and even if you die it might take a long time...I'd feel very sorry for you to have to endure all that pain...

 

[Amossoma543]

To be quite honest, I would not risk using a 32 calibre, especially when shooting to the chest....if you miss the heart you might not die fast enough, be found and rescued...I think for a shot to the head, if well-aimed at the brainstem, the 32 could be sufficient. But I think small calibre pistol shots to the chest have the lowest success rate in all of CTB by firearms statistics. And a chest wound hurts like crazy...and even if you die it might take a long time...I'd feel very sorry for you to have to endure all that pain...

Well, shit. I guess it's an option if the SN doesn't work. I was worried about the pain. I had visions of pulling the trigger, a moment or three of shock, and then unconsciousness. I definitely would not be rescued....I'm alone at the house...but if it hurt bad enough, I might not be able to stand it long enough to die, and I'd wind up calling 911.

I think it is possible, even likely, that I would die, but it wouldn't be a death I'd wish on anyone. It would likely be agony. Still...if I get desperate enough, I'd just put it behind my ear. If I could muster enough will power (not likely), I could put 3 into my chest.

Thanks for the honest reply.

 

[Pan]

Hello all, I'm thrw_a_way1221221, or you can call me TAW122 if that's easier for you. In this thread, here is all the information in regards to ctb'ing via a gun/firearm.

Everyone who is suggesting or choosing to ctb via 'N' and 'A' and 'H', that's cool. However, this thread is about GUNS (Not biceps) so.

First and foremost. The obvious.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/

According to a 1997 study from the University of Harvard, Firearms wield a 82.5% success rate. Where as drugs have a 1.5% SUCCess rate (C what I did there)? Now of course, if you're not American, it's pretty much impossible to get a reliable gun. Although black powder is a thing, and I will get into that, because you know, I think renaissance festival enthusiasts are pretty cool (It's a joke laugh). Okay. Anywho. Let's talk guns.

I think that there has been some misconceptions with guns and reliability.

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/firearms/reliability (Over 90%)
https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/ (90%)
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm (Suicide by firearm accounted for like 49% of all American suicides in 2015)
http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bal-te.brain05oct05-story.html (Only 5% survive a gunshot to the head)

Drugs.
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/drug-poisoning-us



5,465 OUT OF 228,366.

'But TAW122 I can get N.'

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/us/06ttdrug.html

While a totally old article, it still makes valid points and has correctly predicted trends in the United States. N is being manufactured less and less, and the legal demand for it just is not there. So yes. I'm sure they still use it in Mexico and other third world countries. It is also expensive. Are you truly ready for the painstaking and irritating time of finding a dark market, finding a reliable seller, and risking criminal prosecution (such as being intercepted by customs and all that shit)?

'But TAW122, I cannot purchase guns, I R not American'

In the UK, France, Italy, Poland, Czech Republic, and Serbia, you can purchase black powder replicas without a license.

Germany and Spain won't let you. Sorry ya'll if you live there. (Try moving to another country in Europe or so if possible.)


Guns beat drugs every day of the week. Sorry guys. When it comes to reliability. This is how it works. Now. Before we get into the joys of muzzle loading and you renaissance festival lovers, we're going to discuss for everyone in North America.

If you live in the US and do not live in California, Illinois, Oregon, Washington, or New York, and you have not committed a felony, and have not broken ATF regulations. You can purchase a gun. Congratulations.

plz read the laws and make sure you follow them okay, thanks guise

If you're going to catch the bus with a firearm in the US or Canada, using anything short of a shotgun is not really reliable (unless you are experienced with firearms and know how to shoot it well, where to aim, steady hands, etc).

'But TAW122, I have a .44 revolver/only have access to a handgun.'

If you can afford a shotgun, you should REALLY consider buying one. Plus, I believe in many states long guns (aside from the anti-gun, 2A hating states) are generally easier to come by. I live in NC so I have the opposite problem (NC has a pistol purchase permit law which is a holdover from the Jim Crow era and only serves to inconvenience people to buy handguns).

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...otguns/Maverick/Maverick+88+12GA+18.5+CYL+6RD

This bad boy costs UNDER $200 (as of current price). This is a fully functional and god-tier shotgun. The coolest part about owning a shotgun is when you cock it. It's just a sexy sound.

'But TAW122, how do I buy a gun from le Internet?'



TL;DR - Your gun is shipped to a nearby guy who has a FFL. He holds the gun. You go to his place. He does the background check. You leave with your firearm.

'But ammo'

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/656_2081/products_id/60359

This is the only round you need. This is overkill and generally good if you can get it. However, birdshot does work too, and I personally have #4 shot, which will still be sufficient especially at point blank range.

'But TAW122, I am a minor'

Well, you shouldn't own a firearm in the first place. Wait until you are an legal adult (18 in the US), and then move out and/or go and buy one.

'But TAW122, I have never shot one before'




Watch some youtube videos, go to a local range where you live or something.

'But TAW122, I live in a state with harsh gun laws'

Muzzle Loaders and Black Powder. READ EM.

'But TAW122, I am an adult, yet live with my parents'

If you buy the firearm online and have it shipped to your FFL, it should literally take 30 minutes for a background check to be completed. You can be in and out in 30 minutes. EZ PZ.

'But TAW122, I can't do that.'

Muzzle Loaders do not require an FFL. You can have shipped right to your front door.

'But TAW122, black powder/muzzle loading when?'



It is just a bit more complicated, but with enough guides and videos on the Internet, I believe you should be able to figure it out.

'TAW122, plz make a recommendation on a firearm for me'

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...ons+P1060+Kentucky+Pistol+Percussion+50cal+10

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/97060/Mossberg+PATRIOT+20+308+Y+WAL


These are just a few examples (see above).

'But TAW122, you said not to use a handgun nor a rifle'

The first example is not a handgun. It's a hand cannon. There is a difference.

'But TAW122, I live in Europe, I can't buy my guns online'

There are many gun stores in the UK that will allow you purchase REALLY overpriced renaissance festival cosplay equipment. Remember, when you go into the gun store, you're buying it because you're going to be Ollie Cromwell or Henry the 8th or something. Act enthused and passionate.

'But TAW122, I live in East Asia (China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc.)'

Gun ownership in Asia, especially in East Asia is very restricted and civilian ownership is pretty much banned.

'But TAW122, I live in Oceania, (Australia, New Zealand, Polynesia, Micronesia, etc.)'

Afaik, @stargazer has mentioned that is it very difficult to legally obtain a firearm in those countries.

'But TAW122, in the UK, licenses, licenses, licenses'

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/ammunition/back-to-black-72074

You must demonstrate a good reason for having one. Possession of, and intent to use, a gun that is only proofed for black powder is a good reason.

'But TAW122, you did not list my country, or give me adequate information.'

Ask away and I will do my best to answer them.

'TAW122, where do I aim?'

See diagram below:

The happy place is the Medulla Oblongata (I like to call it, the Medusa Origin just for the luls) aka the brain stem. Once it is hit and destroyed, death is instantaneous/near instantaneous.

The Nazi leader Hitler shot himself in the mouth. According to historians, his death was instantaneous. Would the mouth be appropriate?

 

[A_Poetic_Death]

TAW122, I have a splendid Mossberg 500 .410 self defense shotgun that isn't long rifling. Here's my problem: I only have birdshot. Birdshot isn't gonna do anything except pain and disfigurement. I went to Walmart the other day for defense rounds, and they had 2 small boxes of .410 for buckshot, but......I don't know if my piece can take 3 inch or only 2/half. I can't ask anyone who knows like oh idk my dad who knows I have these tendencies to CTB. He also knows a shitton absolute firearms....

Its fun walking circles around cops and crisis teams, but not fun every time.

K so I paused for a minute and read the barrel. Jesus flipping C word.... I'm dumb. It can take 3 inches. I should have bought those rounds. Still got time.

Now the question TAW122, can buckshot do the job?

great read btw.

 

[Roger]

Shotguns have calibre and chamber length markings engraved into the breech of the barrel. Calibre markings are invariably given in the traditional bore size (gauge), e.g. 12 bore, with the exception of the .410 inch. The words "bore" and "gauge" are interchangeable, the former being traditional British usage, and the latter being an Americanism, though as in so many things we (Brits) are gradually picking up on the transatlantic usage.

Chamber length markings may be in imperial measurements (2 3/4 inch for example) especially on American guns, or on much older English guns, but most of the world now use metric sizes for the chamber length. Sometimes this is abbreviated to (for example) "12/70" indicating a 12 bore gun with a 70mm chamber length. It should be noted that the length of a shotgun cartridge is measured in the condition after firing, that is to say with the crimp blown out. So if you measure the length of an unfired cartridge it will be about half an inch shorter than its given length.

You can shoot a shorter cartridge than designated quite safely, though doing this as a matter of course will eventually lead to excessive chamber wear. Overlength cartridges will cause excessive chamber pressures. The internal chamber diameter is slightly larger than the internal barrel diameter (to account for the thickness of the cartridge wall). As the crimp of the overlength cartridge opens into the barrel proper on firing, it is slightly restricted by the marginally narrower diameter. With a modern gun in good condition this will usually only manifest itself in excessive recoil.

 

[SettOne1994]

a good spot for shooting yourself for practicality is your neck spinal cord at the back-low part of your head where there is a kind of hole...

 

[Roger]

a good spot for shooting yourself for practicality is your neck spinal cord at the back-low part of your head where there is a kind of hole...

Do you mean just below the occipital protruberance ? That is the usual point of aim for execution shots by pistol. It lines up with the medulla.

 

[Amossoma543]

Do you mean just below the occipital protruberance ? That is the usual point of aim for execution shots by pistol. It lines up with the medulla.

Is this the spot just below the knob-like bony thing at the base of my skull? If I shot myself there with a .32 caliber...do you think that would kill instantly?

 

[Pan]

Why not the mouth? Hitler did it; it worked...who cares WHO did it? As long as it worked, right? Purportedly, when Hitler did it , death was instantaneous.

 

[TAW122]

@A_Poetic_Death Absolutely. I even argue that #4 shot is sufficient at point blank range due to how to little pellets (bird shot) act like a 'slug' in terms of ballistics. That is because there is not enough distance for the shot to spread.

@Amossoma543 Yes, it could work, but I wouldn't trust a .32 ACP to do the job if I had better options. Low/small caliber rounds certainly have claimed many lives, but it's almost oftenly due to shot placement as well as other causes of death (trauma and blood loss). I'd at least go with a 9mm hollow point to increase the likelihood of success.

@Pan Yes, the mouth should be sufficient. In regards to how Hitler CTB'd, yes he shot himself and ingested cyanide at the same time which is how he died. Had the gunshot not been fatal, the cyanide poisoning would have finished him off.

 

[SettOne1994]

Do you mean just below the occipital protruberance ? That is the usual point of aim for execution shots by pistol. It lines up with the medulla.

yes exactly ( occipital protruberance ) its very efficient since u need to aim only horizontally not vertically

Is this the spot just below the knob-like bony thing at the base of my skull? If I shot myself there with a .32 caliber...do you think that would kill instantly?

maybe.... the question is can 32 caliber break the spinal cord from point blank.... i suggest you buy a pig or some animal skull and try it....dont try headshot with it but maybe from that point it can penetrate the spinal nerve...

 

[LastRide]

yes exactly ( occipital protruberance ) its very efficient since u need to aim only horizontally not vertically

maybe.... the question is can 32 caliber break the spinal cord from point blank.... i suggest you buy a pig or some animal skull and try it....dont try headshot with it but maybe from that point it can penetrate the spinal nerve...

But how can you correctly aim a gun at the back of your head, even with a short revolver like my .357 magnum colt? I'd be afraid to miss ! @thrw_a_way1221221 you always to have the good suggestions for correct firearm ctb? or should I just stick to the shotgun shot through the mouth with slugs? My self-esteem has declined so much over the last weeks I have this feeling I am even to stupid to put a bullet in my head....

 

[Amossoma543]

@A_Poetic_Death Absolutely. I even argue that #4 shot is sufficient at point blank range due to how to little pellets (bird shot) act like a 'slug' in terms of ballistics. That is because there is not enough distance for the shot to spread.

@Amossoma543 Yes, it could work, but I wouldn't trust a .32 ACP to do the job if I had better options. Low/small caliber rounds certainly have claimed many lives, but it's almost oftenly due to shot placement as well as other causes of death (trauma and blood loss). I'd at least go with a 9mm hollow point to increase the likelihood of success.

@Pan Yes, the mouth should be sufficient. In regards to how Hitler CTB'd, yes he shot himself and ingested cyanide at the same time which is how he died. Had the gunshot not been fatal, the cyanide poisoning would have finished him off.

Wait...I can use a 9mm bullet in a 32 caliber gun? Keep in mind...I have no knowledge of ammunition. The bullets I have were there when I inherited the gun. It does fire, though. It does work...but I have no knowledge of ammunition.

 

[SettOne1994]

But how can you correctly aim a gun at the back of your head, even with a short revolver like my .357 magnum colt? I'd be afraid to miss ! @thrw_a_way1221221 you always to have the good suggestions for correct firearm ctb? or should I just stick to the shotgun shot through the mouth with slugs? My self-esteem has declined so much over the last weeks I have this feeling I am even to stupid to put a bullet in my head....

i dont understand how u consider shotgun if your self esteem is low that is godlike for me.... i had once that cAliber gun and almost headshoted myself.... from behind and on exactly middle(horizontally) and straight ( vertically) is 0% chance you will miss the brainstem or even the central nervous system that connects your brain stem with rest of your body heart etc.... so basically if .357 can penetrate a spinal bone or a skull you can have absolute sucess with 0 pain..maybe the noise of the gun might make your ears ring for some seconds but its insta-success... my advice for you since you are lucky owning a handgun even of that caliber is go buy a whatever pig or sheep head from a butcher. Test skull penetration and watch closely besides the penetration if it managed to damage the opposite side of skull too then go search the human skull thickness with that specific animal skull thickness... also if u manage to find some ribs with a spinal corde of whatever big animal test to see from point black if it can manage to penetrate both sides of the spinal bone.... i believe you have good sucess with that caliber since i heard a story on Quora where someone died from that caliber by bullet penetrating his body and doing ricochets inside his body rupturing organs... IF the caliber is not enough or you pussy out i suggest you something. Locate your heart very good between the ribs ... Exhale fully and take a shot there.... the bleeding will kill you for sure and you can penetrate the heart with such a caliber... If you ever experienced dizinness etc you know how it feels...i doubt the burning sensation on your chest will be a problem... But im sure that point behind your head is not a thick bone and you can achieve better results by aiming on it and straight inside your head....The success rate is 100% just aim in the center and not even 20 degrees upwards or nothing just straight... That way even if you miss the brainstem you wont miss the major human nerve that connect the brainstem with rest of body and its functions. You will loose consciousness instantly, blood flow will stop aswell instantly and in manner of minutes everything shutdowns but you will be gone far from that moment..... you live in usa? im trying to get my hands on a 9mm or a 7.62 rifle but im 20 years past the revolution that happened in Albania where all army guns where opened to the free public .. for free lol...it was 1997

 

[mesohappy]

This may sound trivial,some of you may have already considered it or know about it,but the other day I was reading an article about how aspirin promotes bleeding.I think a couple hours before I would blast myself I would take 5 or 6 aspirins just as an added insurance.If I don't manage to destroy the brainstem,at least I bleed out quicker,lessening my suffering.Or if someone did discover and try to "save" me,it would help negate their efforts.Just thought I'd share.

 

[TAW122]

@mesohappy Good point, it may help as an added insurance, if one isn't dead immediately following the gunshot (either didn't hit the brainstem and/or used too low/wrong caliber to CTB).

 

[Antinous]

Gun placement by a former police officer

On November 27, 1978, former police officer Dan White assassinated San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk in City Hall. After traumatizing each of his victims with shots to the chest from his .38 Smith & Wesson, he knelt next to the victim's body, pointed the gun at the their ear lobe, and fired two bullets into their brain. It is likely that he chose such non-random gun placement for the fatal shots based on his police training.

 

[toomuchgrief]

Well since this is a gun thread, i want to share this. This from Documenting Reality.

This guy shot himself with a gun under his chin, the bullet travel up and exit the nose bridge. He didn't die, just lost his face, the bullet didn't get to the brain.

Warning, graphic, bloody scene. The whole rescue team and rescue him, he survived.

Severe Facial Trauma Shotgun Wound GRAPHIC MEDICAL SCENE

A friend showed me this on youtube, couldn't find it here, please I'm pretty sorry if it be a report. Also : He gets rolled over at the 6th minute or

www.documentingreality.com

 

[LastRide]

Well since this is a gun thread, i want to share this. This from Documenting Reality.

This guy shot himself with a gun under his chin, the bullet travel up and exit the nose bridge. He didn't die, just lost his face, the bullet didn't get to the brain.

Warning, graphic, bloody scene. The whole rescue team and rescue him, he survived.

Severe Facial Trauma Shotgun Wound GRAPHIC MEDICAL SCENE

A friend showed me this on youtube, couldn't find it here, please I'm pretty sorry if it be a report. Also : He gets rolled over at the 6th minute or

www.documentingreality.com

I really don't know why they insist on rescueing people who obviously want to die...I mean a gunshot to the head is NOT a "cry for help" ! Poor bastard probably had not read the megathread here so aimed wrong....but what is this stubborness in wanting to save people who barely survice a suicide attempt? Do doctors feel extra proud when they can save someone despite their wish?

 

[TAW122]

@Antinous It seems like that perp (former police officer) hated those people or had some beef (dispute and ongoing issues) with them. Anyways, I don't condone his action of taking others' lives, but back to the gun placement, yes I would say that his training in law enforcement as well as military had an impact on his gun placement.

@toomuchgrief This is why one should NEVER aim up the chin. As @TiredHorse stated, that is Hollywood BS (just stuff you see in the movies - which doesn't translate to RL) and mainly for theatrics; never a good representation of RL. While there are people who do die from a chin shot, it is usually due to secondary causes, such as blood loss and shock/injuries rather than immediately following the brainstem.

@LastRide Meh pro-lifers... I too don't get them either. I fully agree with you, it is NOT a "cry for help" but rather an intentional act of CTB'ing (just unfortunate that it failed and resulted in permanent damage, injuries). I guess the pro-lifers and anti-choice people feel some sort of heroic action or that they stroked their egos for saving the poor person's life, regardless of what happens afterwards (the victim being a vegetable, permanent disfigurement, social ostracization, etc.). As for doctors, I believe it is their duty (by law - at least in some jurisdictions) to save whoever is injured or have life threatening injuries (I blame a pro-life at all costs government and society), because if they didn't, then the surviving family or others can sue them or their governing board (professional board/licensing board) could revoke their license, resulting in them not being able to practice medicine again.

 

[toomuchgrief]

and those who chose the gun route, I recommend a shotgun, traditional shotgun or tactical shotgun both fine.

Look at this Documenting Reality thread, see the wound of shotgun to the head, it blow half your head off, let alone your brain. Scary shit. Btu this is what you aim for, you want to make sure you end up dead.

Warning, gore images, half of the head blow off.

Gunshot Wound Deaths

Entrance wounds : A typical entrance wound has a round or ovalshaped skin defect, surrounded by a rim of abrasion. This rim is variably referred to as

www.documentingreality.com

 

[LastRide]

and those who chose the gun route, I recommend a shotgun, traditional shotgun or tactical shotgun both fine.

Look at this Documenting Reality thread, see the wound of shotgun to the head, it blow half your head off, let alone your brain. Scary shit. Btu this is what you aim for, you want to make sure you end up dead.

Warning, gore images, half of the head blow off.

Gunshot Wound Deaths

Entrance wounds : A typical entrance wound has a round or ovalshaped skin defect, surrounded by a rim of abrasion. This rim is variably referred to as

www.documentingreality.com

Yyyessss !!! Just the job ! Sorry to sound mean, but that's exactly what I needed to get proof of my intended angle.....

 

[Cave Johnson]

I know it is going to sound monumentally dumb, but me one issue with going out using a gun is the mess I'll leave behind. There's enough of a mess when you use drugs(evec'd bowls and whatnot) that I don't want to create a hassle for people even after I'm dead.

 

[mesohappy]

I know it is going to sound monumentally dumb, but me one issue with going out using a gun is the mess I'll leave behind. There's enough of a mess when you use drugs(evec'd bowls and whatnot) that I don't want to create a hassle for people even after I'm dead.

That's why a lot of people go out to remote open spaces in nature to do it.

 

[TAW122]

That's why a lot of people go out to remote open spaces in nature to do it.

Or alternatively, they do it in their own enclosed space like a vehicle or small tent, something to contain the mess they leave behind. Yes, firearm suicides are always going to leave some mess, but one of the main reasons for my method is due to it's reliability. Had I had legal and easy access to things like N, N₂, and similar inert gases, or means, then I'd CTB via that way, but those methods are not accessible for me, thus I have chosen the firearm as my bus ticket. Leaving a mess and the people who have to clean it up are the byproducts of a anti-choice, pro-life society as well as the lack of ease of access and legal means to CTB.

 

[Y78]

i know that if its pointed to your side head you can still survive maybe 10% but when its in mouth its 99.9% you dead i wish i had accsses to handgun even zip gun but i dont

 

[TAW122]

i know that if its pointed to your side head you can still survive maybe 10% but when its in mouth its 99.9% you dead i wish i had accsses to handgun even zip gun but i dont

This is due to the fact that at the side of the head, there is oftenly more dense material (bone) that the bullet has to go through before reaching the brain, let alone the brainstem. When aiming into the mouth, there is less dense matter that the bullet has to traverse before doing tremendous damage and destroying the brainstem. If one is aiming from the side of the head, then one should aim for behind the ear as that is the most direct path to the brainstem.